Kids long distance running ?

kit3

Hi. My 10 year old son wants go come running with me. He is well ablefor 3 miles at 10 minute mile pace. Just wondering, though, is this recommended for a kid of his age ? He plays Gaelic and swims and is fit. I'm a bit worried that it might not be good at that age - should he stick to shorter distances? Would appreciate any advice please. Thanks. C

TFBubendorfer

kit3 wrote: »

Hi. My 10 year old son wants go come running with me. He is well ablefor 3 miles at 10 minute mile pace. Just wondering, though, is this recommended for a kid of his age ? He plays Gaelic and swims and is fit. I'm a bit worried that it might not be good at that age - should he stick to shorter distances? Would appreciate any advice please. Thanks. C

Kids won't push themselves beyond a certain threshold. 3 miles isn't that long, if can do it easily it's not a problem.

kit3

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

kit3 wrote: »

Hi. My 10 year old son wants go come running with me. He is well ablefor 3 miles at 10 minute mile pace. Just wondering, though, is this recommended for a kid of his age ? He plays Gaelic and swims and is fit. I'm a bit worried that it might not be good at that age - should he stick to shorter distances? Would appreciate any advice please. Thanks. C

Kids won't push themselves beyond a certain threshold. 3 miles isn't that long, if can do it easily it's not a problem.

Thanks for that. Just wanted to be sure before encouraging it.

Woddle

How many times a week?
What surfaces are you running on?
Has he other activities the day of the run that may see him over doing it.

I don't know alot about kids running but 3 miles a couple of times a week seems fine.

The running times mag covered kids running in their current issue and they seem to suggest that no damage is been done and there talking about kids doing alot higher mileage.

Thay have a breakdown of a young athlete Alana Hadley and at 10 she was running 30-35 miles a week over 6/7 runs. Now she did start at 6 running 4-6 miles 2/3 times.

RoyMcC

I agree with TFB - youngsters have the sense to stop when their bodies tell them too, unlike the rest of us. What you don't want to be doing is pushing him faster and further with possible resultant damage to a growing body.

I suppose his GAA involvement means that he won't have time to do club athletics In that environment he could experiment with sprints and shorter distances and find his own level with children of his own age.

Ireland also needs young throwers

RoyMcC

Woddle wrote: »

Thay have a breakdown of a young athlete Alana Hadley and at 10 she was running 30-35 miles a week over 6/7 runs. Now she did start at 6 running 4-6 miles 2/3 times.

Now there's a child who, I guarantee, won't be in the sport in a few years time. Far too much too soon.

Woddle

RoyMcC wrote: »

Now there's a child who, I guarantee, won't be in the sport in a few years time. Far too much too soon.

14 now and running everyday with a total mileage of 70 plus :eek:

Woddle

RoyMcC wrote: »

Now there's a child who, I guarantee, won't be in the sport in a few years time. Far too much too soon.

The article does give a mention to Dathan Ritzenhein, he started in 6th grade and was running 100 miles plus in high school and still seems to be going well
although there's always the exception.

kit3

Woddle wrote: »

How many times a week?
What surfaces are you running on?
Has he other activities the day of the run that may see him over doing it.

I don't know alot about kids running but 3 miles a couple of times a week seems fine.

The running times mag covered kids running in their current issue and they seem to suggest that no damage is been done and there talking about kids doing alot higher mileage.

Thay have a breakdown of a young athlete Alana Hadley and at 10 she was running 30-35 miles a week over 6/7 runs. Now she did start at 6 running 4-6 miles 2/3 times.

On sand yesterday. Would make sure to keep him on grass or sand and will limit him to 3 miles for now. He's very active for the summer but nothing structured. Back to GAA and swimming in Sept. Will only bring him with me when I'm doing a short one - HD was determined to finish yesterday no matter what

ecoli

Woddle wrote: »

The article does give a mention to Dathan Ritzenhein, he started in 6th grade and was running 100 miles plus in high school and still seems to be going well
although there's always the exception.

Ritz not a great example, he has chronic injury problems which have plagued home throughout his career

Woddle

ecoli wrote: »

Ritz not a great example, he has chronic injury problems which have plagued home throughout his career

I re read some of it after and they were actually using him as an athlete who started young and still seems to be improving.
Some of the article reckons there is improvement issues regarding your VO2 max if you start younger and with big mileage.

PVincent

If you consider that a cross country race/or a track race for 10/12 maxs at about 600metres , then 5k is far too long . You need to be very careful about this because kids are actively growing at 10 and long distance running ( 5k is long distance) can have a serious effect on their body . Kids at 10 should be sampling all the disciplines that athletics offers( sprints , hurdles, throws, jumps etc ) ...if you take your kid to a club , it will be far more beneficial for him to get an all round grounding in the sport.

Woddle

PVincent wrote: »

. You need to be very careful about this because kids are actively growing at 10 and long distance running ( 5k is long distance) can have a serious effect on their body .

Running times article seemed to dismiss this as an urban myth

PVincent wrote: »

.. Kids at 10 should be sampling all the disciplines that athletics offers( sprints , hurdles, throws, jumps etc )

I agree with this

ecoli

PVincent wrote: »

If you consider that a cross country race/or a track race for 10/12 maxs at about 600metres , then 5k is far too long . You need to be very careful about this because kids are actively growing at 10 and long distance running ( 5k is long distance) can have a serious effect on their body . Kids at 10 should be sampling all the disciplines that athletics offers( sprints , hurdles, throws, jumps etc ) ...if you take your kid to a club , it will be far more beneficial for him to get an all round grounding in the sport.

Agree here somewhat however i dont think that too much distance is a bad thing as is seen in the Africans. I think intensity is the aspect of training which needs to be addressed. Dont get hung up on intervals etc.
At this age a kid should be developing the fundamental motor skills such as agility, co-ordination and balance through a wide range of sports. Let the child pick out different sports they are interested in and try them out. You dont have to get specific at this age.

kit3

Thanks for all the replies. My main concern is really that I would cause him an injury. Will investigate the club option in sept. He was in Santry with the school in June and loved the experience. In the meantime, should I reduce it from 3 miles to play it safe ?

PVincent

Agree here somewhat however i dont think that too much distance is a bad thing as is seen in the Africans..

Maybe a little unfair to use the Africans (lifestyle, body structure, genetics etc) as an example but I know the point you are trying to make
I do agree that kids have moved away from distance and a lot is to do with them not doing enough of it and being afraid of it ... but not at the age of 10 ..

Totally agree that the motor skills you mention are the most vital at that age and that is achieved by trying a broad range of sports ...there needs to be careful monitoring of overtraining etc etc as contrary to some earlier points , if kids are talented they actually dont know when to stop and they committ to playing football one day, swimming the next ,gaa the nxt day ,training for all 3, and throw in the running session for good measure ...so parental control and input and coaches who consider the full development of the child rather than just their own goals for the kids are vital ( sorry we have broadened the topic here ! think it was discussed in a thread a year or so ago )

RoyMcC

PVincent wrote: »

Agree here somewhat however i dont think that too much distance is a bad thing as is seen in the Africans..

Maybe a little unfair to use the Africans (lifestyle, body structure, genetics etc) as an example but I know the point you are trying to make
I do agree that kids have moved away from distance and a lot is to do with them not doing enough of it and being afraid of it ... but not at the age of 10 ..

Totally agree that the motor skills you mention are the most vital at that age and that is achieved by trying a broad range of sports ...there needs to be careful monitoring of overtraining etc etc as contrary to some earlier points , if kids are talented they actually dont know when to stop and they committ to playing football one day, swimming the next ,gaa the nxt day ,training for all 3, and throw in the running session for good measure ...so parental control and input and coaches who consider the full development of the child rather than just their own goals for the kids are vital ( sorry we have broadened the topic here ! think it was discussed in a thread a year or so ago )

Yes, agree broadly with most of that. The danger is twofold at a young age

1. Training too intensively at one particular activity - swimming is one sport where youngsters are pushed too hard (imo) and high mileage in the early years (unless, as you say, you are born into the lifestyle) will end in tears
2. The more able youngsters being pushed into training and competing for every school sports team, then going off to play for the local club, run for the local track team etc.

I'm sure the OP doesn't mind us wandering OT a bit. I hadn't realised until Wednesday evening that children are no longer able to skip a rope - or hardly When did they stop doing these sort of things without thinking? I'm certainly all in favour of developing basic motor and co-ordination skills before hammering a child with hard work.

Woddle

Again going back to the article
The sources used including Noakes claim there is no scientific proof of physical damage to ligaments and joints. They do however note that emotional burnout can be a big danger. Also intensive training, intervals and such are a no no. Pfitzinger goes on to suggest that they play other sports aswell and that will help there running in later years by strenghtening ligaments etc.
The article does promote higher mileage for kids but only as long as they want to do it.

Also an interesting number that was thrown about is that African kids have 10'000 miles on the American kids by high school age

RoyMcC

I suppose the occasional Western child could prove the exception and emulate the East Africans to whom NOT running is weird.

Neither am I going to argue with Tim Noakes on the science, the incidence of injury etc :pac:

But generally you'd surely want to advocate a healthy, active, sporting lifestyle, specialising a little later.

That said, when it comes to technical sports like golf (Woods) or tennis (the Williams) then early hothousing sometimes pays dividends, but without the risks of burnout.

robinph

Once the kid is having fun and not being overly forced to do a particular activity then where's the harm? They will stop doing it once they get bored/ knackered.








I did marathons age 11 and 12, so what more proof is needed that it does you no harm...

Raighne

Kids even down to the age of 10 are quite well able to handle aerobic exercise and have good natural fitness. They handle anaerobic exercise less well. Arthur Lydiard's experience showed him that at age seven boys and girls could begin to absorb large amounts of long-distance running without any undesirable side effects. Youngsters under fifteen have a better capacity to use oxygen in relation to their body weight than an adult. However, they have highly sensitive nervous systems and cannot stand much anaerobic training.

Competitive racing does not harm youngsters of any age, provided the races are kept to sprints over short distances not more than 200m, or middle and long-distance races of 800m to 1500m. The below is an example of Lydiard's conditioning schedule for 10-12 year old's pursuing athletics as their main sport (more specific training would follow after 6-10 weeks of this).

Mon: Aerobic run 15-30 min
Tue: Aerobic run 15-30 min
Wed: Easy time trial 2000m
Thu: Aerobic run 30-45 min
Fri: Easy fartlek 15-30 min
Sat: Easy time trial, 3000m
Sun: Long aerobic 30-60min

Obviously, youngsters should generally be encouraged to try their hand at as many sports as they wish and the general rule is to let them play at athletics and encourage training from that perspective. Their capacity for exercise and the benefits they draw from it, will astound many adults.

Getonwithit

Great post by Raighne.
People are always scared of distance training for kids but if you bear these 3 principles in mind I think you'll be more than alright and will in fact see the benefit of running for your child.

1. Its not the distance its the pace that kills. As alluded to in other posts as long as the training is not overly intensive, speed focussed the athlete develops in the correct way. I think an over focus on speed is the reason we have so many clubs with 40 under 14s and 3 under 18s.

2. While out running easy with your child, work on things like running form. Make sure your child is running well throughout the 30mins say not just surviving it.

3. Think of training as focussed on the systems of the body, and at this age focussed on the aerobic system. The major difference btw say Kenyan and Irish kids is lifestyle. Kenyan children are working continuously on their aerobic system as they lead a more active life.

If your child was to have a better aerobic base and improved running efficency as a result of running with you then the whole exercise will have been very benefical.

thirtyfoot

Raighne wrote: »

. The below is an example of Lydiard's conditioning schedule for 10-12 year old's pursuing athletics as their main sport (more specific training would follow after 6-10 weeks of this).

Just to clarify, I don't think following that conditioning program will serve any benefit if a 10-12 year old wish to pursue athletic events such as sprints, jumps, hurdles etc. Even if they do progress to more specific training after 6-10 weeks, 6-10 weeks of that slog will have done them no good whatsoever, in my opinion. I see kids who wish to do power events in their later teens but they have been slogged to death in early teens and have lost many of the formative years as regards speed and skill development.

firemouth

kit3 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. My main concern is really that I would cause him an injury. Will investigate the club option in sept. He was in Santry with the school in June and loved the experience. In the meantime, should I reduce it from 3 miles to play it safe ?

a couple of months back i ran in a 5k trail series in Mullingar,there was a swarm of kids ,9,10,11 and 12yrs from the local club running.Could be worse,he could be sitting at home playing xbox?

TFBubendorfer

firemouth wrote: »

a couple of months back i ran in a 5k trail series in Mullingar,there was a swarm of kids ,9,10,11 and 12yrs from the local club running.Could be worse,he could be sitting at home playing xbox?

Exactly! There is so much lamenting going on about our kids becoming lazy and fat and not doing nearly enough sports, and yet when someone wants to go running with his kids they are fed scare stories about damaging their bodies.

Kids know when to stop, much better than adults.

Raighne

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Just to clarify, I don't think following that conditioning program will serve any benefit if a 10-12 year old wish to pursue athletic events such as sprints, jumps, hurdles etc. Even if they do progress to more specific training after 6-10 weeks, 6-10 weeks of that slog will have done them no good whatsoever, in my opinion. I see kids who wish to do power events in their later teens but they have been slogged to death in early teens and have lost many of the formative years as regards speed and skill development.

Overall aerobic development benefits you in all sports from jumps to gridiron to kayaking and helps you maintain strength and concentration longer in training. This is a core tenet of the Lydiard system that conditioning is largely identical for all distances from 800m to marathon.

For sprints, Arthur balanced it slightly differently, here is the example for 100m-200m sprinters (boys and girls) from "Running the Lydiard Way":

Mon: Easy fartlek running, hill springing, steep hills, or step running 15-30 min
Tu: High knee-lift exercises, long striding exercises, running tall exercises, relaxed striding 4x200m
Wed: Repeat Monday
Thu: Repeat Tuesday
Fri: Leg speed, 4-6x100m
Sat: 2-3x400m at 3/4 effort
Sun: Easy fartlek running 15-30min

The exercises quoted by Lydiard are the ones developed upon in Bud Winters seminal sprint training book "So you want to be a sprinter?". in addition to the above he recommended enough easy aerobic running to ensure the athlete raised their steady state and could complete their sprint training without tiring.

As a side-note runner will only be "slogged to death" if they misunderstand Lydiard style conditioning to mean what is today understood as "Long Slow Running" rather than the steady-state running he advocates or runner training outside their current capabilities to steal another quote: "The long steady running that I term marathon training is designed to create a state of fatigue, though not so great to interfere with the next day's program. You should be able to recover reasonably quickly".

kit3

Thanks a mil for all the replies. Only have phone access for the summer and haven't figured out how to thank specific posts. Will let him run when he wants - just need to get rid of the storm that has been battering us for the last 3 days !

robinph

kit3 wrote: »

...and haven't figured out how to thank specific posts.

touch.boards.ie

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

Ritz not a great example, he has chronic injury problems which have plagued home throughout his career

Im sure some people would sacrifice a couple of injuries to run sub 13 and 60 flat for the half along with a big contract from Nike and Gatorade

Wally Runs

OP., Might he go on his bike along side you if you wanted to go a bit longer or faster. Depends on the route and safety, but nice to have a someone carry your water etc. Having boys myself, all they want to do is be with his Dad when he is out (well except at 6.00 am) and really that is great (best tonic for being feedup).

While mine are still a bit too young they just adore events that have kids races along with the adults (Powerscourt being a recent one) and I have friend who best memories are running along with her Dad as a kid. So yeah go for it but keep it fun.

Wally

kit3

Wally Runs wrote: »

OP., Might he go on his bike along side you if you wanted to go a bit longer or faster. Depends on the route and safety, but nice to have a someone carry your water etc. Having boys myself, all they want to do is be with his Dad when he is out (well except at 6.00 am) and really that is great (best tonic for being feedup).

While mine are still a bit too young they just adore events that have kids races along with the adults (Powerscourt being a recent one) and I have friend who best memories are running along with her Dad as a kid. So yeah go for it but keep it fun.

Wally

Good idea - will keep that in mind - he does lots of stuff with his Dad so maybe wants to do this with his Mam? Suspect it won't be long before he leaves me for dust if he gets into it - I'm a plodder !