Welfare paid to nearly half of population

ei.sdraob

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/welfare-paid-to-nearly-half-of-population-2818573.html

ALMOST half of the population is now receiving a social welfare payment.

And the cost is continuing to spiral, as more people join the ranks of the long-term unemployed.

Last year, there was a 40pc increase in the amount of money paid out for Jobseeker's Allowance.

But child benefit payments actually fell, partly due to a crackdown on bogus claimants.

Figures from the Department of Social Protection show that €20.8bn, one-third of all money spent by the State last year, went to welfare recipients.

In contrast, €13.5bn was spent in 2006 at the height of the boom.

Pensions and other payments to older people made up 22pc of money paid out last year, just under 20pc of payments were made to the unemployed and 12.7pc went on child supports.

Jobseeker's Allowance rose by €805m to €2.8bn last year.

Meanwhile, a department spokesperson has denied there are plans to cut unemployment benefit or other welfare payments next year

21 billion a year, and this doesn't include "entitlements" paid by other departments such as the HSE etc

Anyways interesting that pension payments are more than unemployement payments, now that the Pensions Reserve has been pissed away, would pensions not become a larger and larger problem going forward as the population ages?

Cookie_Monster

ALMOST half of the population is now receiving a social welfare payment.

regardless of the make up that is a truly shocking figure...

Manach

Surely if the non-social welfare payment recipiants, given the current trends, become less than 50% of the population does that them make them a specific social grouping and hence they then should receive a payment to make up for this? :rolleyes:

cavedave

Is mortgage interest relief classed as welfare? How about university fees?

I am just wondering how this breaks down.

Mr McBoatface

Sensationalist reporting, yet another Headline attempt to paint those who lost their jobs as a result of the recession as lazy money sponging gits.

From the SW annual report summary http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/ResearchSurveysAndStatistics/Pages/2010stats.aspx

Over 1.4 million people were in receipt of a weekly Social Welfare payment, which was paid in respect of just under 2.2 million beneficiaries;

Expenditure on State Pensions increased by 1% to just over €4.6 billion. Payments were made to almost 394,000 people in this area;

591,432 families received a monthly Child Benefit payment which was paid in respect of 1,124,003 children. Expenditure on Child Benefit decreased by 11.3% to just over €2.2 billion.

Family Income Supplement was paid to 28,223 families, 8.7% more than the previous year and benefiting over 62,000 children, a increase of 11.7% on 2009.

Expenditure on Family Income Supplement increased by 11.3% to €186 million;

Expenditure on Carer’s Allowance remained stable, decreasing by 0.1% while that on Carer’s Benefit decreased by 12.9%. The numbers in receipt of a Carer’s payment increased from 50,140 to 52,219, an increase of 4.1%;

Child benefit is paid to every child regardless of there parents income. Including this figure which accounts for over half of the 2.2 million SW recipients behind the headline which will be used to attack SW jobseekers rates of payment seems highly immoral to me. I do agree that this payment need reform, the rich don't need it, Bono's kids don't need it.

Carer’s who receive payment via SW represent excellent value for money, the cost of home care is a faction of that provided by the HSE. Reduce this payment and you can sit back a watch the HSE become even more swamped as the sick are dropped off to the hospital door because home carers can't provide the adequate care.

The state pension needs reform but no government has the balls to do so. People who have little or no overheads and may even have large private pension could easily deal with a reduction in it.

During the boom we had near full employment, people worked when work was available the myth of the lazy Irish is just that ... a myth. If more effort was put into creating jobs via tax incentives, reducing cost employers have to pay to rent and bill etc, then people will get off the live register and back working. Hair-brain and poorly managed schemes such as the WPP and the new internship scheme are not creating jobs, the are being abused by employers and taking low paid work of the market. This sh1t needs to stop.

Get rid of the rent allowance it's an artificial bottom on the rent market and keeps the cost of living at a higher rate than it should be. Reduce the cost of living and the wage rate can be reduced accordingly. The state and taxpayer own a mountain of empty properties around the county, they should be used to house people who require it. There should also be reform of the social housing system, it should not be an entitlement but be seen as a privilege, if abused by anti-social behaviour etc you should have the privilege removed. Also while on housing :- mortgage interest relief should be abolished for high earners.

The 4% of the population who never worked during the boom and those who see the SW as a career choice (some single mothers) need to be treated differently to those who have worked and worked hard and contributed to the system only to find their jobs gone.

Good loser

jobyrne30

'Reduce the cost of living and the wage rate can be reduced accordingly.'

As of May 2011 I believe the cost of living was 4.8% lower than in 2008.

Nijmegen

Anyways interesting that pension payments are more than unemployement payments, now that the Pensions Reserve has been pissed away, would pensions not become a larger and larger problem going forward as the population ages?

In the US they have the Congressional Budget Office that report on things like this out to a long timeframe.

Pity Ireland doesn't.

The US budget will become 'bust' - that is to say, entitlements (like healthcare and social security) combined with debt interest repayments will outstrip tax take - by 2030 at current trend. (All other spending, like defence, is not counted there.)

Not too far off.

We clearly need to look at welfare in Ireland. The problem with the welfare state is when politicians, to win elections, give away to more people than make a net contribution to the state.

thebman

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/welfare-paid-to-nearly-half-of-population-2818573.html



21 billion a year, and this doesn't include "entitlements" paid by other departments such as the HSE etc

Anyways interesting that pension payments are more than unemployement payments, now that the Pensions Reserve has been pissed away, would pensions not become a larger and larger problem going forward as the population ages?

As far as I can see, the states plan is for my generation not to retire at all and work to death.

Most of my friends have said something like this to me too without me pushing. We know the money isn't there and there is no plan to get it there.

Cool Mo D

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/welfare-paid-to-nearly-half-of-population-2818573.html



21 billion a year, and this doesn't include "entitlements" paid by other departments such as the HSE etc

Anyways interesting that pension payments are more than unemployement payments, now that the Pensions Reserve has been pissed away, would pensions not become a larger and larger problem going forward as the population ages?

Why would the pensions reserve be relevant to anyone not in the public sector? The state pension is not funded from it. It may lead to trouble ahead for large pubic sector pensions, but I get the impression that most people here would be just fine with that.

Debtocracy

The pension age will be raised untill after you die.

Riskymove

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Why would the pensions reserve be relevant to anyone not in the public sector? The state pension is not funded from it. It may lead to trouble ahead for large pubic sector pensions, but I get the impression that most people here would be just fine with that.

you are incorrect

the NPRF was designed to pay both public sector pensions and the state pensions in future years

The National Pensions Reserve Fund was established in April 2001 to meet as much as possible of the costs of Ireland's social welfare and public service pensions from 2025 onwards, when these costs are projected to increase dramatically due to the ageing of the population

http://www.nprf.ie/home.html

andrewdeerpark

jobyrne30 wrote: »

During the boom we had near full employment, people worked when work was available the myth of the lazy Irish is just that ... a myth. If more effort was put into creating jobs via tax incentives, reducing cost employers have to pay to rent and bill etc, then people will get off the live register and back working. Hair-brain and poorly managed schemes such as the WPP and the new internship scheme are not creating jobs, the are being abused by employers and taking low paid work of the market. This sh1t needs to stop.

Incorrect in Q2 2008 the Irish official unemployment rate was 115,000. This excludes those on FAS courses and disability.

So we have a core 100K loafers that should have their welfare cut completely and leave them starve on the street; as during the boom they never made an effort at enriching the country as a whole.

To much of a social blanket for these individuals. Plus criminals, drug dealers and the like should get no dole, if you bite the hand that feeds you (society) then its time to bite back, judges should be able to remove welfare payments as a punishment for crimes committed.

Agree with abolishing all these rent allowances, school uniform / book payments, butter vouchers, fuel allowance, free TV license and addon perks. By getting rid of them all for everybody you not only save on the actual payments but all the administration cost associated with them: IT, brochures (in Irish translation aswell), telephones, staff, legislation, printing etc. As running a business you have to kill the whole department (keeping alive for say one needy group, looses the savings mentioned as the admin overhead remains) to make the real savings and streamline our social welfare into a one payment system which dramatically reduces administration costs.

View

Debtocracy wrote: »

The pension age will be raised untill after you die.

When state pensions were first introduced (by Bismarck) only one in a hundred people lived long enough to qualify for it.

Modern medicine has increased that number dramatically over the years, governments will now push the qualifying age upwards until they reach an affordable (i.e. small enough) number of the population living long enough to qualify for it.

andrewdeerpark

View wrote: »

When state pensions were first introduced (by Bismarck) only one in a hundred people lived long enough to qualify for it.

Modern medicine has increased that number dramatically over the years, governments will now push the qualifying age upwards until they reach an affordable (i.e. small enough) number of the population living long enough to qualify for it.

Very well made point.

It should also be noted that the whole welfare state idea is a post world war 2 concept. No so long ago their was no safelty net for the poor and needy.

I agree with the principle of the welfare state however it has developed into a bureaucratic system (1st world issue) that needs overhaul.

Basically as can be seen from Greece, ourselves, the US, UK, Italy all these governments are spending more than they are taking in, so running a loss for years that is now a debt mountain, that is the knub of the global problem.

Nijmegen

In actual fact, there was/is a core of 28,000 loafers on long term unemployment.

The rest of the 100,000 we saw on unemployment were providing the elasticity you need to have a functional labour market.

A labour market with 0% unemployment actually finds it very difficult to grow.

andrewdeerpark

Nijmegen wrote: »

In actual fact, there was/is a core of 28,000 loafers on long term unemployment.

The rest of the 100,000 we saw on unemployment were providing the elasticity you need to have a functional labour market.

A labour market with 0% unemployment actually finds it very difficult to grow.

I am still sticking to my 100K give or take 10K: loafers.

As you can add back to your 28K the duckers and divers on FAS courses (hop from one course to another never getting a job), plus those on disability through falsified medical reports and conditions.

Disability is a fair bit of the whole social welfare fraud because as soon as you get on it you loose focus in the system and coast along; that is what a lot of long term unemployed eventually get on, either through pretend illnesses or genuine bad health that became a condition of theirs because of their mental state and lifestyle on the dole.

Tora Bora

View wrote: »

When state pensions were first introduced (by Bismarck) only one in a hundred people lived long enough to qualify for it.

Modern medicine has increased that number dramatically over the years, governments will now push the qualifying age upwards until they reach an affordable (i.e. small enough) number of the population living long enough to qualify for it.

But then you have to factor in people working longer. Delaying entry of young people into the work force, because less available positions.
Higher unemployment. Goveernment saves on pensions on one hand, and hands the money out with the other to the now unemployed youngsters, who would have replaced the older people on the workplace.

Factor in also, that with increasing qualification age for OAP, people will save money all the harder in later life in particular, to help prepare for old age. That means less spending, = less tax revenue for government.

Increasing qualification age for OAP, is not a straight saving for goverment.

Nijmegen

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

I am still sticking to my 100K give or take 10K: loafers.

As you can add back to your 28K the duckers and divers on FAS courses (hop from one course to another never getting a job), plus those on disability through falsified medical reports and conditions.

Disability is a fair bit of the whole social welfare fraud because as soon as you get on it you loose focus in the system and coast along; that is what a lot of long term unemployed eventually get on, either through pretend illnesses or genuine bad health that became a condition of theirs because of their mental state and lifestyle on the dole.

Ok, well I will stick to my facts if you don't mind.

28,000 individuals were on long term unemployment.

Welfare fraud, you are correct, could make up more than that. About 10-15% of welfare is issued through error or fraud, they reckon.

But to get to 100,000 is a big stretch.

Of the 4.5% unemployed, as I say, the majority were providing labour market elasticity. Between jobs, moving from one to another, usually down the lower end.

Liam Byrne

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Child benefit is paid to every child regardless of there parents income.

It's still being paid out, and paid for by those of us who are barely able to make ends meet.

Child benefit - at least for the 3rd & more children - is unaffordable.

later12

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Incorrect in Q2 2008 the Irish official unemployment rate was 115,000. This excludes those on FAS courses and disability.

So we have a core 100K loafers that should have their welfare cut completely

What? That was the quarter in which Ireland officially fell into recession. If you want to find the core unemployment figures, you could look back to peak economic performance and look at the unemployment figures at that point.

And when we do that, we can see that during the boom years, the long term unemployment figures fell to 20,000 at one point - and not all of these people may have been on social welfare benefits. Ireland had virtually eradicated its unemployment problem. Therefore to argue that Ireland has a core lazy cohort of 100,000, or that a core lazy cohort of 100,000 has come to maturity in the last five years or so, is simply not credible.

It may be that some people have become ingrained in the social welfare lifestyle, but I don't consider that we have any really reliable way of measuring the size of that cohort at the moment.

andrewire

Unemployment benefits should be paid for a limited time, otherwise you end up with people on the dole for years and years. In other countries you're only 'entitled' to claim unemployment benefits for six months.