Transphobic ad

Annasopra

I think this ad is transphobic and Ive just submitted a complaint to ASAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrhrMTZNyw

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

allydylan

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this ad is transphobic and Ive just submitted a complaint to ASAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrhrMTZNyw

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

yes i agree with you ever time that ad comes on i think how transphobic it is

wonderfulname

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this ad is transphobic and Ive just submitted a complaint to ASAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrhrMTZNyw

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

I've always felt that myself, would this not merit its own thread? Or does everyone lurk here even if they aren't posting?

How do the trans people here feel about the ad?

allydylan

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this ad is transphobic and Ive just submitted a complaint to ASAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrhrMTZNyw

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

and i've filed my complaint, i don't know how many compliments they'd need to take us seriously but sure you may as well try

wonderfulname

Not many actually, they recognise that only a small minority of people are proactive in these things.

Finnbar01

I can't believe how offended people easily get these days. Is this a wind up?

allydylan

wonderfulname wrote: »

Not many actually, they recognise that only a small minority of people are proactive in these things.

ok that's good, i'd imagine that some people have probably complained about it already

and yes not many people take part in these things, that's the first complaint i've ever made about and ad or something on tv

wonderfulname

Finnbar: The ad does play off stereotypes, and the type of joke that it is isn't exactly acceptable in modern ireland even if it once would have been, if that were actual office banter it would merit disciplinary action, so it's worth at least questioning when it's on the tele...

ixoy

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I can't believe how offended people easily get these days. Is this a wind up?

It makes a mockery of the issues that many people face. I can see why you'd complain, especially if it's an area that's close to you.

jaffacakesyum

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I can't believe how offended people easily get these days. Is this a wind up?

I agree. But then again, it takes a hell of a lot for me to be offended :pac:

Personally, I see it as a lighthearted ad, not to be taken too seriously.

But obviously, if people are offended by it they have every right to complain. Perhaps if I was trans myself I might feel differently about the ad.

mikemac

It's not to be taken seriously.

Do you look at their other two ads on their channel?
They are ripping off customers, overcharging, stinging young drivers, inventing risks and giving employee of the month to a staff member who can do all these

It's the whole point of the campaign, the company are rip off merchants and cowboys!
No nonsense insurance cuts all this out, it's no nonsense

There is a context to this one ad and it is only one ad out of three
Watch all three before deciding to lodge a complaint

Annasopra

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I can't believe how offended people easily get these days. Is this a wind up?

No - it is quite offensive to suggest that a trans person should "take a spanner and remove the nuts"

watawaster

How is it transphobic? ...:rolleyes:

A sex change from male to female would result in recognition of the driver as female warranting cheaper car insurance (which would be the opposite of transphobic)..And she laughs because it's a ridiculous suggestion to go through such a procedure just to get cheaper car insurance.

Lighten up people before I go on some crazed rant

tweedledee

I agree with jaffacake but I dont see how its Transphobic??????
It raises the question,Would a transexual get cheaper car insurance??I think they should being they are now female!!

allydylan

does anyone not think that it mocks the idea of having a sex change?

nerraw1111

The ASAI has already rejected a similar complaint about the ad.

http://www.asai.ie/complaint_view.asp?CID=864&BID=41

The Complaints Committee considered the detail of the complaint and the advertisers’ response. The Committee considered that advertisements could refer to particular groups even potentially vulnerable groups but must not do so in an offensive way. They accepted that some viewers may feel that the reference to a sex change was insensitive or in poor taste, however, they did not consider the reference trivialised this sensitive issue nor did it portray gender dysphoria in a negative way. While the advertisement had mentioned an issue which affected transgender people in a light hearted manner, they considered that the advertisement had not subjected them to ridicule or offensive humour

Annasopra

watawaster wrote: »

How is it transphobic? ...:rolleyes:

"taking a spanner and removing the nuts"

wonderfulname

mikemac wrote: »

It's not to be taken seriously.

Do you look at their other two ads on their channel?
They are ripping off customers, overcharging, stinging young drivers, inventing risks and giving employee of the month to a staff member who can do all these

It's the whole point of the campaign, the company are rip off merchants and cowboys!
No nonsense insurance cuts all this out, it's no nonsense

There is a context to this one ad and it is only one ad out of three
Watch all three before deciding to lodge a complaint

I've seen the ads, I understand the context, I still find it questionable. Ixoy has better verbalised my impression of it.

Again, I would like to know what those who have an actual right to be offended feel about it. Given how annoyed I get over straight people over PCing things about gay people (I think it's as bad as no PC to be honest, it's almost a hallmark of cultured homophobes at this stage), I'd prefer not to take action on another groups behalf without knowing their position.

Finnbar01

mango salsa wrote: »

No - it is quite offensive to suggest that a trans person should "take a spanner and remove the nuts"

Where does it say in the ad that the man is a pre-transexual? In fact, we could say that the ad is actually insulting to men to chop their nuts off just to receive cheaper insurance.

We could also find 'offence' that the women expressing that opinion is blonde and sure only a blonde would suggest something like that, so now blondes are offended.

It also suggests that mature women get cheaper insurance because they drive safer, are less likely to take risk, and are not as daring as men, so now we have feminists and the like upset.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to switch over when the ad comes on, or bycott the company by not buying any of its insurance products?

wonderfulname

I think whats questionable here is that it belittles the process trans people go through, suggesting it is as simple and cosmetic as hacking off your nuts. It's not about an actual character portrayal, rather a position

EDIT: and older women do get cheaper car insurance because they are statistically safer drivers, that's the business.

watawaster

mango salsa wrote: »

"taking a spanner and removing the nuts"

I've hummed and hawed for a few minutes and I've decided that only transgender people can provide a useful insight into the sensitivity of the ad. So i bow out, and hope that those making such complaints to the ASAI are transgender, otherwise what do they know?

Caiseoipe19

My view would be that it jokes at the idea of getting a sex change purely for the purpose of getting cheaper insurance and not talking about the real-life reasons transition from one sex to another. However, I amn't in a position to be offended by it so I acknowledge that my opinion mightn't be the same as those that do go through a sex-change.

jaffacakesyum

allydylan wrote: »

does anyone not think that it mocks the idea of having a sex change?

Yes, it mocks the idea of having a sex change for the reason of getting cheaper car insurance.

It doesn't mock the idea of having a sex change when there is valid reason behind it.

(in my opinion )

allydylan

Cygnus wrote: »

My view would be that it jokes at the idea of getting a sex change purely for the purpose of getting cheaper insurance and not talking about the real-life reasons transition from one sex to another. However, I amn't in a position to be offended by it so I acknowledge that my opinion mightn't be the same as those that do go through a sex-change.

yes that is exactly the problem with the ad, although i personal am not in a position to be offended by the ad i am speaking of behalf of a good friend who is in the position to be offended and i know she is

Annasopra

I've hummed and hawed for a few minutes and I've decided that only transgender people can provide a useful insight into the sensitivity of the ad. So i bow out, and hope that those making such complaints to the ASAI are transgender, otherwise what do they know?

Nope I'm not trans - but that does not mean that I cannot tell when something is offensive to trans people. Otherwise we would have to go down the road of rigid identification with a group -ie only black people would know anything about racism etc etc

B_Fanatic

mango salsa wrote: »

No - it is quite offensive to suggest that a trans person should "take a spanner and remove the nuts"

Myself, I don't see it. I don't see where it suggests this - I can see how it would be taking the piss out of the sex change process, but not how it could be construed as offensive towards the transgendered. The 'man' on the phone isn't transgendered.

If all transgendered people find this offensive or at least understand why others would and put it down to a different sense of humour, I'll do as one poster has said: Bow out, and keep it to myself. Whether this ad is aired or not has no huge bearing on MY life, but if it does on someone elses'...?

watawaster

mango salsa wrote: »

Nope I'm not trans - but that does not mean that I cannot tell when something is offensive to trans people. Otherwise we would have to go down the road of rigid identification with a group -ie only black people would know anything about racism etc etc

Not all trans people are the same, so, most likely, not all will find it offensive. I stand by my point.

Annasopra

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Where does it say in the ad that the man is a pre-transexual?

Fair enough - it doesn't but it still mocks the whole process of going through a sex change - It makes SRS seem something lighthearted, irrelevant, something to be laughed at and treated as a joke

allydylan

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Yes, it mocks the idea of having a sex change for the reason of getting cheaper car insurance.

It doesn't mock the idea of having a sex change when there is valid reason behind it.

(in my opinion )

yes that's my opinion as well, i think saying that ad is demeaning would be the right word personally
but i can definitely see how people like my friend would find if offensive

Annasopra

watawaster wrote: »

Not all trans people are the same, so, most likely, not all will find it offensive. I stand by my point.

I never said all trans people would find it offensive but obviously a significant number do - hence the original ASAI complaint

Complaint:
The complainant considered the advertisement to be offensive and insulting to transgender people because it trivialised the real life experience of those with Gender Dysphoria and also because it ridiculed a minority group in society.

The complainant also considered the tone and attitude of the work colleagues to be contrary to professional ethics and best practice with respect to dealings with transgender persons.

squishykins

Wasn't the whole point of the ad to say "our insurance is different, we don't act like this: insert ad here"? I suppose it is offensive to trans people, but they weren't insinuating that they treat their customers like that?

Also, aren't laws coming in at the end of the year making it so that gender isn't a factor in calculating a premium? (how it should be, but still annoyed my premium's gonna go up :P)

L.Jenkins

Yeah, in the insurance industry gender can't be used as a determining factor anymore, but it will implemented in December of 2012. I think there hoping for certain prophecies to be fulfilled :P On saying that I was looking forward to cheaper car insurance.

squishykins

It's not really a step in the right direction IMO. Of course non-discrimination is great, but it's still not an evaluation of the individual person's driving skills, like if they're going down that road ageism will be on the agenda next =/

Cybele

Tl;dr It hurts :-P

I finished my transition including SRS and all before the age of 25. It was a harrowing emotional experience that started the day I was born, pain that would drive your average John and Jane Doe to insanity.

Even though such emotional pain will leave me with lifelong scars I still consider myself rather lucky. I have an ordinary life!

None of my new friends know about my past and for personal safety and general well being they never will. I can even enjoy an active sex life without revealing “my past”.

To them I’m just an ordinary girl next door with ordinary interests and hobbies and…

To be accepted, to be seen as a human being with feelings, to not be seen as a freak, to be seen as an ordinary person with an ordinary life and to have a not so ordinary dog that eats cat food!

…pretty ordinary right? :P

Non trans people take the above for granted every second of their lives, I had to EARN it!(Minus the cat food) I had to earn my ordinary life and it came at a serious cost emotionally. I would have given the world to have been born physically one or the other.

Non trans people will never understand what they take for granted, their ordinary lives. So it comes as no surprise to see some people on this form failing to understand how that ad insults.

So much effort just to have an ordinary life, totally worth it! I love my ordinary life!

Printemps93

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Yeah, in the insurance industry gender can't be used as a determining factor anymore,

So wait ......the majority of us who dont like to speed on roads will be paying the same as those who do?

L.Jenkins

Pretty much.

Printemps93

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Pretty much.

Thats Bull**** :mad:

Back on that being a transphobic ad

I think that it mocks the concept of there being a company that suggests you going to extraordinary lengths to get cheaper car insurance.
However If I were trans I would be upset as it's not as simple as taking a spanner and making a few adjustments

apache

i found these ads very funny.
i do think however that people here need to get off their soapbox and try and start living in the real world.
i take it that the people here who are offended (not trans - i can't speak for them although my trans friend found it funny too :eek:) need to take a step down. what do you do? spend time studying discrimination. going through college and learning the theory and not the practicality. jeez lads this is very mild. em maybe get a life. there is no discrimination. it is just personified in your own head.

L1011

Personally I don't see there being an issue with the ad and I somehow doubt the ASAI will either


On a purely factual level, in ten years time there won't *be* discounts for the lady driver, as thats been outlawed by the EU from next year...

apache

nor should there be. equal rights is equal rights.

foggy_lad

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this ad is transphobic and Ive just submitted a complaint to ASAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HrhrMTZNyw

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

I thought the advert was hilarious.

LegacyUser

The person watching the ad is the person who decides to find it offensive.
There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

Annasopra

River Dance lol wrote: »

The person watching the ad is the person who decides to find it offensive.
There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

I watched it. I found it offensive. I know lots of others did too. I was clearly not the only one.

Links234

I could try to explain why I find the ad insulting.

I could try to impart upon posters how the microaggressions against trans people from media, which don't really seem all that important taken in isolation, all add up.

but I won't bother...

because there's just gonna be people who'll condescend to me, dismiss what I have to say, discount my perspective, ignore my experiences, claim I'm just being oversensitive, that I enjoy being offended, and back-slap each other about it.

so what does it matter what a transgendered person has to say about an ad that makes a mockery of what trans people face, when we have cis people to tell us to lighten up, and those are the opinions that count. just like cis people who tell me "tranny" isn't offensive.

deirdre_dub

First of all - I've complained about other ads to the ASAI before, and one thing has become clear to me.

The ASAI are not there for the benefit of the public - they are there for the benefit of the advertising industry. Their purpose is to act as an early warning system to the advertising industry that an ad is "backfiring". They will only take action if they receive a huge volume of complaints - the merit of the complaints is irrelevant.

Now on to the ad. The response quoted above from the ASAI said that the ad "did not trivialise this sensitive issue". That is precisely what the ad is doing - it is that trivialisation that makes the ad "funny" to some people. And as for "not portraying gender dysphoria in a negative way" :rolleyes: :mad:

As someone pointed out, your gender will shortly not be a discriminating factor in insurance. Hence anyone who "takes a spanner and makes a few adjustments" is doing so to no avail and are, therefore, by implication, stupid.

Yes the ad series from "no nonsense" is offensive to other groups as well. That does not make it right. The ads are careful to not be offensive to the majority of society - it is only those of us in targetted groups that get to feel the offense. What those of you who are outside the targetted groups do about that is up to you.

Rev Hellfire

deirdre_dub wrote: »

As someone pointed out, your gender will shortly not be a discriminating factor in insurance. Hence anyone who "takes a spanner and makes a few adjustments" is doing so to no avail and are, therefore, by implication, stupid.

At present that is not the case and the ad seeks to highlight that in what is to most people a humorous manner.

Annasopra

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

At present that is not the case and the ad seeks to highlight that in what is to most people a humorous manner.

Do think its ok then because 'most' people find it humorous?

optogirl

wonderfulname wrote: »

Finnbar: The ad does play off stereotypes, and the type of joke that it is isn't exactly acceptable in modern ireland even if it once would have been, if that were actual office banter it would merit disciplinary action, so it's worth at least questioning when it's on the tele...

The whole premise of the ad is that these people are idiots (at a nonsense firm as opposed to a no-nonsense one.) We are supposed to think they are ignorant.

Rev Hellfire

mango salsa wrote: »

Do think its ok then because 'most' people find it humorous?

In a nutshell yes, the ad is clearly not aimed at transsexuals. imho etc etc.

deirdre_dub

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

At present that is not the case and the ad seeks to highlight that in what is to most people a humorous manner.

The ad says "if in, say, 12 years time you were to come back as a woman" - in 12 years time, the legislation will be in force.

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

In a nutshell yes, the ad is clearly not aimed at transsexuals. imho etc etc.

So it is OK to have an ad which discriminates against trans people, then?

Speaking from a legal point of view, it is not acceptable to create a product or service which isn't available to minorities. Your thesis seems to be that, through their advertising, the insurance company in question have, in effect, done just that?

I agree with that thesis. I certainly won't be going to this company for insurance services, and I know a trans person who is currently insured with them who will renew her insurance with a different company because of this ad. This ad is de facto discrimination against transgender people.

Rev Hellfire

deirdre_dub wrote: »

The ad says "if in, say, 12 years time you were to come back as a woman" - in 12 years time, the legislation will be in force.

But clearly what is being said in the advert is if 'he' was 10 years older and female he would be eligible for their mature ladies policy, the future doesn't come into it. It aimed at the here and now.

deirdre_dub wrote: »

So it is OK to have an ad which discriminates against trans people, then?

An advert that clearly discriminates against trans-people ? I don't believe that would be acceptable to the majority of people so no.

But this advert does not discriminate against trans-people, I'm curious as to where you see the discrimination is. Yes you could possible stretch it to argue that it possibly could be seen as belittling the process they go through by calling it "taking a spanner to the nuts".
Perhaps you'll care to highlight where they state its not available to trans-people.

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Speaking from a legal point of view, it is not acceptable to create a product or service which isn't available to minorities. Your thesis seems to be that, through their advertising, the insurance company in question have, in effect, done just that?

On sex and age yes, but as has been stated that will be dealt with in the near future.