Driving Quality between Countries - Observations

keithclancy

So,

Did a drive back to Ireland starting in the South East of the Netherlands, across Belgium, France. Dunkerque to Dover, then up via Coventry to Liverpool and then Dublin to Cork.

Heres my experience.

Netherlands - Fairly ok lane discipline, excellent road surface, a small amount of tailgating.

Belgium - The odd lunatic, most drivers are ok with decent lane discipline, road surface is attrocious, really noisy, random bumps all over the place, some parts of the antwerp ring almost have speed bumps due to tree roots growing under the road.

You end up shouting at each other in the car to have a conversation due to the noise.

France - Decent road surface, good lane discipline, the Belgians seem to lose all sense when they cross the border, putting the foot down, not uncommon to see speeds above 160km/h.

UK - WORST DRIVING EVER, three lanes on the M6, people using the middle and outside lane only, seeing people tailgating was the norm.

For a country that invented roundabouts nobody seems to know how to use them, two lanes on a roundabout and people just drive 'through' at speed, someone cut me off using the inside line and then pulled across out the first exit, I had to brake to avoid hitting into the side of him and the car behind me came inches from the back of my car due to tailgating.

I was in on the middle lane of the M6 and someone was in the overtaking lane, then just pulled in from the overtaking lane, while parallel with my car while talking on their phone, didn't even notice that they had almost run into me at all.

And on the National Roads it seems to be some sort of competition, a guy undertook myself and the car in front of me then pulled out at the last minute narrowly avoiding a parked car.

Road Surface in the UK varied from Good to Poor with the odd random massive pothole, if anything its a good reason to stay as far back as possible from the car in front to give you the longest reaction time possible to avoid pot holes.

Ireland - Excellent Motorway Dublin - Cork, on par with the Netherlands. National Roads are ' ok' but falling apart in bits.

Lane Discipline is much better than in the UK, worse than France/Belgium/NL.
Again roundabouts seem to be a total mystery to most. Although I didn't realise until I moved abroad that Lane Indications seem to be totally random in Ireland, i.e. on the Continent, Right lane is usually Straight on or turning right, Left is usually for left. Ireland there is no hard and fast rule, just need to see what the road marking are, although in a few cases their totally faded or painted over badly.

Also some a-hole who kept speeding up and slowing down on the M8 kept overtaking and then slowing down again, i.e. I'd set the Cruise Control at 120, then would start closing, over take, without speeding up and then 3-4 minutes later he would overtake and slow down again.

Eventually I got totally racked of with this, set the cruise control a 'bit faster' and to get a bit of distance from them, he started flashing his lights and gives the finger out the window (I assume this was some bloody foreigner thing given I have foreign plates)

I did see this thing of using the outer lane of the roundabout to go all the way around, i.e. I think these people are afraid people like them won't leave them out

Anyone else have a comparison to share?

On the drive back I was thinking to myself "they should rename the M25 to Heathrow long term car park"

Henry Ford III

In my experience UK drivers are lights years ahead of Irish drivers, in terms of manners, perception, anticipation, lane discipline, correct use of lights, indicators etc.

sentient_6

The one thing ill say about the M6 in england is when i was on it the left most lane was usual packed solid with trucks, it's unrealistic to try stay in it & constantly overtake in & out. Doesn't make it right but meh. Id stay left when there was chance but its rare. *awaits bollockin from anan1*

keithclancy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

In my experience UK drivers are lights years ahead of Irish drivers, in terms of manners, perception, anticipation, lane discipline, correct use of lights, indicators etc.

From my trips to the UK I've found that People in the North, up around Leeds, Newcastle, Birmingham etc generally have much better manners than in the South around London.

No idea why, maybe its due to congestion or something

bmstuff

Talking about Ireland, in my experience Irish drivers are the worse in Galway area.

Seen lots of bad driving yesterday on my way back to Dublin, everybody sticking to the left lane doing 100 Km/h and a guy tried twice to overtake me leaving Galway where you have all the road works and orange cones on the single lane, had 10 cars in front of me, no way to overtake and plus this was limited to 50 Km/h. No problem for him, he tried twice to overtake me, I could not believe it lol...

krank

I thought that the standard of driving in France was abysmal. The tailgating was absolutely unreal.

The standard of driving on the motorways in Spain was very high, but then I've been told their driving tests are more rigorous and the police there sure as heck don't take prisoners.

Nonoperational

Interesting observations but it's an arbitrary observation of your road use that is impossible to correlate to any sort of finding that means anything at all.

keithclancy

gpf101 wrote: »

Interesting observations but it's an arbitrary observation of your road use that is impossible to correlate to any sort of finding that means anything at all.

Your mean like most of the posts on boards ?

wellbutty

I'm in France 6 months now and still don't have a dent on the car, somehow. They're unnaturally impatient, almost every day I see overtaking on blind country corners, even when you're a bit over the speed limit they're up your arse. Indicators were obviously only put on exported French cars. Irish car or no Irish car, they hate everyone equally.

However on motorways they're completely different, very well disciplined, right lane driving, left to overtake, back into the right lane immediately.

Full agreement on the Belgians, I've seen them booting it as soon as they leave Belgium. Maybe it's to do with the potholes and joints that are everywhere on their major roads. Low profile tyres are a nightmare there.

Wolverine_1999

I have to say everything is accurate. I had the same experience on the roads and find the Belgians to be mad drivers to say the least

Ireland is definitely the most frustrating place to be driving however. I was wrecked after the few hours on Irish roads compared to the longer hours across the continent.

It's the same on other side of the border to Germany as well, the second you hit the border everyone puts the foot down. But then again, there is no speed limit

Marcusm

Did you take the M1 or the M40 from M25 to M6?

M1 is much more heavily dominated by trucks and lots of cars avoid the left lane like the plague so agree that discipline not as good as it should be. Definitely much better than the M50 though with a similar or lighter traffic load.

M40 is much more disciplined, especially (perhaps obvioulsy) int he 2 lane sections.

My epxerience of Irish motorways is M1, M4/6, M7/8 and N/M11 and M50. I don't think lane discipline is as bad on any of the inter urbans as on the M50 but despite low traffic loads, it's not unusual to come across someone driving all by themselves in the "fastlane" as they no doubt like to call it.

I remember once asking my mother late at night a couple of years ago why she was driving in the right lane of the Stillorgan dual carriageway which was empty at the time. The answer was "because it's the fast lane". And how fast do you like to drive - "I hate driving fast".

Needless to say this was a 1980s amnesty case although I'm not sure it would have made any difference.

r3nu4l

keithclancy wrote: »

UK - WORST DRIVING EVER,

Thank you, thank you, thank you

I live in the UK and am sick of seeing the whole 'English drivers are much better than Irish drivers' stuff posted here regularly. They're not, not at all, not by a mile. They're about the same as Irish drivers imo. Many are generally clueless and ignorant, some are very good and others are complete muppets who either shouldn't have a license or are driving without one.

Tailgating is a huge problem over here. I've driven in many parts of England from the centre of London (across Westminster bridge and in the Square mile) to East Anglia (where I live) and Up North (there be dragons ).

Marginal differences between driving styles in those areas.

Seriously high speeding compared to Ireland, lack of use or incorrect use of indicators on roundabouts and tailgating are the norm. Undertaking is less popular but does happen, especially on 3-lane A-roads and Motorways where guys will travel across three lanes and back again in undertaking moves.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

In my experience UK drivers are lights years ahead of Irish drivers, in terms of manners, perception, anticipation, lane discipline, correct use of lights, indicators etc.

See above, five years of driving here everyday hasn't convinced me that English drivers are any better than Irish drivers. If anything it's made me worse!! I can't believe how slowly Irish drivers like to drive when I go home. That's a sad reflection on me

keithclancy wrote: »

From my trips to the UK I've found that People in the North, up around Leeds, Newcastle, Birmingham etc generally have much better manners than in the South around London.

No idea why, maybe its due to congestion or something

They are certainly more willing to let drivers out ahead of them or be more considerate in their driving in general

Today in Cambridge I had a driving instructor (not a learner in his car) accelerate hard to try and block me leaving the lane I was in to avoid a bus lane. I was trying to merge into the lane to my right, I had plenty of time and space available to me , was driving at the same speed as those in the lane beside me, indicated to pull into that lane and as soon as I did he put the boot down to close the gap. When I did get in he had to break and then proceeded to hit the horn and tailgate me bumper to bumper until we both took different exits at the next roundabout

Marcusm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Thank you, thank you, thank you

I live in the UK and am sick of seeing the whole 'English drivers are much better than Irish drivers' stuff posted here regularly. They're not, not at all, not by a mile. They're about the same as Irish drivers imo. Many are generally clueless and ignorant, some are very good and others are complete muppets who either shouldn't have a license or are driving without one.

Tailgating is a huge problem over here. I've driven in many parts of England from the centre of London (across Westminster bridge and in the Square mile) to East Anglia (where I live) and Up North (there be dragons ).

Marginal differences between driving styles in those areas.

Seriously high speeding compared to Ireland, lack of use or incorrect use of indicators on roundabouts and tailgating are the norm. Undertaking is less popular but does happen, especially on 3-lane A-roads and Motorways where guys will travel across three lanes and back again in undertaking moves.



See above, five years of driving here everyday hasn't convinced me that English drivers are any better than Irish drivers. If anything it's made me worse!! I can't believe how slowly Irish drivers like to drive when I go home. That's a sad reflection on me



They are certainly more willing to let drivers out ahead of them or be more considerate in their driving in general

Today in Cambridge I had a driving instructor (not a learner in his car) accelerate hard to try and block me leaving the lane I was in to avoid a bus lane. I was trying to merge into the lane to my right, I had plenty of time and space available to me , was driving at the same speed as those in the lane beside me, indicated to pull into that lane and as soon as I did he put the boot down to close the gap. When I did get in he had to break and then proceeded to hit the horn and tailgate me bumper to bumper until we both took different exits at the next roundabout

I think that there's some very high speeds on Irish motorways except when there are lots of cars around. I have regularly been passed on the M6 at what I would say was 180kph or more (based on what I was doing).

Re the driving instructor, sounds like he was in the wrong lane and he might do better to take lessons than give them!

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

Did you take the M1 or the M40 from M25 to M6?

M1 is much more heavily dominated by trucks and lots of cars avoid the left lane like the plague so agree that discipline not as good as it should be. Definitely much better than the M50 though with a similar or lighter traffic load.

M40 is much more disciplined, especially (perhaps obvioulsy) int he 2 lane sections.

My epxerience of Irish motorways is M1, M4/6, M7/8 and N/M11 and M50. I don't think lane discipline is as bad on any of the inter urbans as on the M50 but despite low traffic loads, it's not unusual to come across someone driving all by themselves in the "fastlane" as they no doubt like to call it.

I remember once asking my mother late at night a couple of years ago why she was driving in the right lane of the Stillorgan dual carriageway which was empty at the time. The answer was "because it's the fast lane". And how fast do you like to drive - "I hate driving fast".

Needless to say this was a 1980s amnesty case although I'm not sure it would have made any difference.

M25 + M6..

Was absolutely knackered after it, the M8 (Ireland) was far less tiring

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

M25 + M6..

Was absolutely knackered after it, the M8 (Ireland) was far less tiring

You must have been knackered very early on not to notice the 80 mile gap between the M25 and the M6:D. Take it you must have taken the M1 up to the beginning of the M6. You'll have recognised the M1 from the long stretch of 50mph through the roadworks.

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

You must have been knackered very early on not to notice the 80 mile gap between the M25 and the M6:D. Take it you must have taken the M1 up to the beginning of the M6. You'll have recognised the M1 from the long stretch of 50mph through the roadworks.

lol .. indeed.

Variable speed limit drives you nuts, people randomly tapping the brakes .. arrgghh !!

Slig

Did a continental drive in an Artic last year but honestly cant remember much about the other drivers, sat in the inside lane most of the way and tried to take note of when I was in a restricted zone on the Autobahn. All I know is that the only HGVs to overtake me on the motorway had Irish plates. Didnt see any real traffic in Germany and I went as far as the czech border. Eastern Europeans over there are mad b4stards and are very actively and obviously targetted by the cops.

I remember driving on the M5 (?around london?) on a miserable wet morning and seeing 2 broken down vehicles. The occupants were standing half way up the bank getting absolutely drenched waiting for the recovery truck in case anything hit their parked cars. When I came back I saw loads and loads of cars parked on the side of the M9 with the occupants still sitting comfortably talking on the phone as if they are being responsible!!

Have to admit that I've resorted to sticking in the left hand lane when I drive the Artic no matter what exit I'm taking. Honestly, I know its wrong but its very difficult to see down the left hand side of the truck when turning right and if I leave the left lane open its just inviting an accident

keithclancy

I take the A2 every morning to work and often see convoys of these things ..



Wouldn't like to be a tip with one !

Minstrel27

Belgians are lunatics on the road. Got a taxi to the airport once and I couldn't believe what I was seeing on the road in front of us.

Slig

keithclancy wrote: »

I take the A2 every morning to work and often see convoys of these things ..



Wouldn't like to be a tip with one !

something new for the school run?

mondeo

I find driving in the Uk to be far better then here in sh!t house canyon. French roads are lovely to drive on with some small towns like Lyon being full off potholes though. French motorway discipline from my own observations is random.

Wolverine_1999

Slig wrote: »

something new for the school run?

You can tell from the Kerry reg that these are the types of vehicles required here now because of the bad roads

Edit: Either that or it's the newer speed camera vans

unkel

keithclancy wrote: »

I take the A2 every morning to work and often see convoys of these things ..



Wouldn't like to be a tip with one !

That's only a light armoured vehicle (10 tonnes or so)

We had these. With the speed limiter off (only in wartime) these 60+ tonne yokes can do 140km/h

Eric Cartman

unkel wrote: »

That's only a light armoured vehicle (10 tonnes or so)

We had these. With the speed limiter off (only in wartime) these 60+ tonne yokes can do 140km/h

only in countries where you can 'liberate' a barrel of diesel every 2-3km id say

polod

i'd love to bring the audi over to england for 4 a spin/holiday:D.......any tips for a culchie driving over there first time of course ? :D

Marcusm

polod wrote: »

i'd love to bring the audi over to england for 4 a spin/holiday:D.......any tips for a culchie driving over there first time of course ? :D

If you take the Holyhead ferry, take the A55 (70mph dual carriageway) not the A5 (single lane Sally Gap type road) unless you fancy a lot of scenery. Work out where you fancy going so that you have some idea of routes. Avoid the orbital roads around the major cities (Manchester, Birmigham, London) at anything like rush hours. Don't just stick to motorways, many A roads are good roads. Get an idea of what the speed limits are (70, 60, 50, 40, 30 and 20) and the types of road they apply to. Except in the major cities you'll come across a lot fewer speed limit signs and ignorance is no excuse!

PLaces like Warwick Castle, Blenheim Palace, Stratford Upon Avon and Oxford are very easily doable in a few days and give you something you won't see much of in Ireland.

Tehachapi

I've driven around 3000km in california, arizona and nevada this year and found their standard of driving quite good compared to dublin. You don't get the same level of courtesy over there (flashing the hazards to say thanks, waving to acknowledge, etc) is non-existant but there seems to be a lot less tailgating, speeding, cutting in front of you, dangerous overtaking and dangerous driving in general.

polod

Marcusm wrote: »

If you take the Holyhead ferry, take the A55 (70mph dual carriageway) not the A5 (single lane Sally Gap type road) unless you fancy a lot of scenery. Work out where you fancy going so that you have some idea of routes. Avoid the orbital roads around the major cities (Manchester, Birmigham, London) at anything like rush hours. Don't just stick to motorways, many A roads are good roads. Get an idea of what the speed limits are (70, 60, 50, 40, 30 and 20) and the types of road they apply to. Except in the major cities you'll come across a lot fewer speed limit signs and ignorance is no excuse!

PLaces like Warwick Castle, Blenheim Palace, Stratford Upon Avon and Oxford are very easily doable in a few days and give you something you won't see much of in Ireland.

thanks marcusm...im think of going to either canterbury or maidstone in SE england...whats the M50 like road around like london there ?

polod

Tehachapi wrote: »

I've driven around 3000km in california, arizona and nevada this year and found their standard of driving quite good compared to dublin. You don't get the same level of courtesy over there (flashing the hazards to say thanks, waving to acknowledge, etc) is non-existant but there seems to be a lot less tailgating, speeding, cutting in front of you, dangerous overtaking and dangerous driving in general.

would love to do something like that ...is it hard to get used to driving on the wrong side ..if you know what i mean

Voodoomelon

Just did Dundalk to Dublin, all around Dublin city and back up and it was a pleasant enough trip. I think the most annoying part of the whole motorway network is northbound on the M1 around the airport area, where the N1 becomes the M1.

It is the most frustrating, snail pace road in the country, everyone being held up for absolutely no other reason than arseholes hogging the overtaking lane. Joining the M1 from the airport exit has to the only place in Europe where you put the foot to the floor to join a 120kph motorway, only to slam on the brakes to join 20kph traffic.

I like driving around Dublin city, as long as you keep your speed low, its hard to go wrong and most people will let you out/change lanes no problem.

Marcusm

polod wrote: »

thanks marcusm...im think of going to either canterbury or maidstone in SE england...whats the M50 like road around like london there ?

That's the whole length from Holyhead then. You can basically do that all on 70mph roads apart from some roadworks. M25 is the road you mention which can be nightmarish in sections during rushhours but that's no different to most orbitals. I reguarly (say 5 times so far this year), drive over and back from South London to Dublin. You can certainly get to Cantebury/Maidstone all in one day if you fancy it. A long drive if you don't have anyone with you or to share the drive. Lots of motorway service areas so opportunities to rest. Your two major decisions will be whether to take M40 or M1 off the M6 (near Birmingham) and if you take the M40, which way to go around the m25, still probably clockwise.

Have an idea of the roads beforehand makes it easier than sat nav I find unles yours is completely up to date.

polod

Marcusm wrote: »

That's the whole length from Holyhead then. You can basically do that all on 70mph roads apart from some roadworks. M25 is the road you mention which can be nightmarish in sections during rushhours but that's no different to most orbitals. I reguarly (say 5 times so far this year), drive over and back from South London to Dublin. You can certainly get to Cantebury/Maidstone all in one day if you fancy it. A long drive if you don't have anyone with you or to share the drive. Lots of motorway service areas so opportunities to rest. Your two major decisions will be whether to take M40 or M1 off the M6 (near Birmingham) and if you take the M40, which way to go around the m25, still probably clockwise.

Have an idea of the roads beforehand makes it easier than sat nav I find unles yours is completely up to date.

thank you very much yeah i think its around a 10 hour drive according to google