Summons: Failure to produce

Star Lord

I just came home to find a summons waiting for me (was not delivered to me, must have been delivered to a housemate and slid under my room door)

I was stopped on the 24th of November at a checkpoint, and the garda noticed that I had an out of date insurance disc on display. The reason for this was I could not find my cert, so took the disc out to enter the insurance details on the road tax website when renewing my tax, and had completely forgotten to put it back, so the previous one was displayed. I explained this to the garda, (Insurance was valid, from 27/09/2010 to 19/09/2011) I was given 10 days to produce the documents, but I think I had completely forgotten to do so!

There are three pages in the summons:
- failure to produce there and then/within 10 days
- "...vehicle insurer nor an exempt person would be liable for injury caused..."
- "an insurance disc which had become void"

I just want to know, what should I expect from this? I had produced at a later date (12 Jan 2011), after being stopped a second time, and have the receipt for this, showing I was covered from September 27th 2010 to September 19th 2011. I have no idea what this means, or what is involved, as I've never set foot in a court room in my life!

Can any of you offer any advice, let me know what to expect or point me in the direction of any more info on this?

red sean

Can any of you offer any advice, let me know what to expect or point me in the direction of any more info on this?

Solicitor.

JerCotter7

red sean wrote: »

Can any of you offer any advice, let me know what to expect or point me in the direction of any more info on this?

Solicitor.

Solicitor is a waste. If this is your first offence just go and plead guilty to number 1 and 3 since you were guilty of it. Solicitor would do the same thing.

Anan1

The main thing is that you were insured - the failure to produce and failure to display a valid disc aren't nearly as serious. If it were me i'd go down to the Garda beforehand with a copy of my insurance cert and a good apology, can't do any harm.

DamoElDiablo

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

I just came home to find a summons waiting for me (was not delivered to me, must have been delivered to a housemate and slid under my room door)

I was stopped on the 24th of November at a checkpoint,............. I had produced at a later date (12 Jan 2011), after being stopped a second time, and have the receipt for this, showing I was covered from September 27th 2010 to September 19th 2011. I have no idea what this means, or what is involved, as I've never set foot in a court room in my life!

Can any of you offer any advice, ..........

In all fairness you were stopped and as well as forgetting to produce the cert in the station you also forgot to put the disc back up, unreal.

I'd follow Anan's advice and hope the Garda is nothing like me, I'd tell ye I'll see you in court.

Star Lord

Anan1 wrote: »

The main thing is that you were insured - the failure to produce and failure to display a valid disc aren't nearly as serious. If it were me i'd go down to the Garda beforehand with a copy of my insurance cert and a good apology, can't do any harm.

Thanks, I will try to get round to the station before work some day this week!

Star Lord

RoverJames wrote: »

In all fairness you were stopped and as well as forgetting to produce the cert in the station you also forgot to put the disc back up, unreal.

I'd follow Anan's advice and hope the Garda is nothing like me, I'd tell ye I'll see you in court.

Really bad short term memory as a result of an illness and operation years ago. Sucks ass.

Anan1

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Really bad short term memory as a result of an illness and operation years ago. Sucks ass.

I'd consider explaining that to the Garda. In my experience they're generally pretty decent if they feel that you're being straight with them.

SomeDude

I would imagine there is very little you could do to get out of a court appearance. You had two opportunities to ensure this situation did not arise. On both occasions you say you 'forgot'. This is no excuse really. I wouldn't waste your money on a solicitor. Just go along to the district court and accept the verdict. Take it as a valuable life lesson.

Cill Dara Abu

Make sure you bring proof to show you were actually insured at the time to court, i'd say your looking at a small fine and points.

Star Lord

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd consider explaining that to the Garda. In my experience they're generally pretty decent if they feel that you're being straight with them.

I'd worry that it'd sound like an 'excuse' rather than the valid reason! Good advice though, thank you.

JJJJNR

PM sent.

whiterebel

When I was done before for this, the judge asked me if I had contacted the Garda to show him my cert etc. That suggested to me that as long as I had it insured at the time, I would have been ok.

DamoElDiablo

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Really bad short term memory as a result of an illness and operation years ago. Sucks ass.

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

I'd worry that it'd sound like an 'excuse' rather than the valid reason! Good advice though, thank you.

I'd defo mention that to the Garda, 'twould do the trick for me

Anan1

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

I'd worry that it'd sound like an 'excuse' rather than the valid reason! Good advice though, thank you.

IMO it's one of life's great ironies that honest people often worry about telling the truth.

dirtydiesel

Bring your paper work to court to prove you were insured at the time, explain your case to the judge, expect a fine and thats about it, ive been there before and that was my outcome.
Imo a lot of money time and effort could be saved if the guards had access to the same system they use in the Uk, over there if your stopped they check and can tell straight away if a vehicle is insured and its taken off you if its not.
Saves the tax payer a fortune in the long run, and saves people like yourself from a pointless day in court.
In a nut shell a quick check would show you were insured and it would of been the guards choice to let you off with a caution for not displaying or take you to court for that offence only.

Star Lord

dirtydiesel wrote: »

Bring your paper work to court to prove you were insured at the time, explain your case to the judge, expect a fine and thats about it, ive been there before and that was my outcome.
Imo a lot of money time and effort could be saved if the guards had access to the same system they use in the Uk, over there if your stopped they check and can tell straight away if a vehicle is insured and its taken off you if its not.
Saves the tax payer a fortune in the long run, and saves people like yourself from a pointless day in court.
In a nut shell a quick check would show you were insured and it would of been the guards choice to let you off with a caution for not displaying or take you to court for that offence only.

Very true, it'd also allow them to spot genuine offenders much more easily!

SilverBell

dirtydiesel wrote: »

Imo a lot of money time and effort could be saved if the guards had access to the same system they use in the Uk, over there if your stopped they check and can tell straight away if a vehicle is insured and its taken off you if its not.

Dont we have that here?? mate of mine got stopped cos a beep went off in the garda car tellin them he had no insurance. Turned out he had insurance, system mistake, but they have a new system I think.

charlemont

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Solicitor is a waste. If this is your first offence just go and plead guilty to number 1 and 3 since you were guilty of it. Solicitor would do the same thing.

Yes and explain your situation, Why you didn't produce etc, Bring your policy document that covers the said date.

Esel

Contact the Garda who issued the summons and prove that you were actually insured at the time, and explain your memory issues. You might find them to be understanding. I would do this rather than wait for the court date.

If you do wait for the court date, though, try to find the Garda in the court before your case is called. Show your proof, and explain about your memory. They might ask for the case to be struck out.

MrDerp

Some good advice above.

I would like to offer the following though: Find out which house 'mate' accepted a summons on your behalf and slap him/her around the place with a wet fish.

MagicSean

SilverBell wrote: »

Dont we have that here?? mate of mine got stopped cos a beep went off in the garda car tellin them he had no insurance. Turned out he had insurance, system mistake, but they have a new system I think.

The database here is currently dependent on the information given when you tax your car. So if you tax your car when there is only one month left on your insurance then that will be the expiry date on the system.

MrDerp wrote: »

Some good advice above.

I would like to offer the following though: Find out which house 'mate' accepted a summons on your behalf and slap him/her around the place with a wet fish.

You don't have to accept a summons. The Garda can just put it in the letterbox when you aren't there.

coylemj

Esel wrote: »

Contact the Garda who issued the summons and prove that you were actually insured at the time, and explain your memory issues. You might find them to be understanding. I would do this rather than wait for the court date.

If you do wait for the court date, though, try to find the Garda in the court before your case is called. Show your proof, and explain about your memory. They might ask for the case to be struck out.

That is deffo the best advice. Even if you meet the Garda a week before the case and convince him that you were insured, the case in the District Court will still go ahead so you will have to turn up. Of the three summons, the second one you quoted is for no insurance, that one is way more serious than the others so don't get hung up on memory problems etc., your situation account for a large percentage of the cases which come before the district court which deals with minor motoring offences.

Meet the Garda before the case, either in his station or in the hallway of the court. If you meet him in the station make sure that he has his notebook and records the fact that you showed him an insurance cert. which covers you for the date on the summons. This ensures that when he is called in court he will tell the judge that he has seen your documentation, is satisfied that you were covered on the date in question and the 'no insurance' summons should be struck out.

You can then explain to the judge why you forgot to produce and why there was no valid disc on the wndscreen, there is no point in telling the Garda this story, he cannot pull the summons so you will have to go down to the court and explain it yourself. A solicitor would be a waste of money because even if the judge is in a bad mood he won't fine you more than 20 euros on each of the other summons, it's much more likely he will give you the Probation Act or strike them out.

MrDerp

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

You don't have to accept a summons. The Garda can just put it in the letterbox when you aren't there.

I stand corrected. I always thought someone had to accept it.

As for the OP, something suddenly occurred to me. You have problems with your short term memory due to an illness? I have a suggestion for you. Carry a pocket diary. If you can't remember important things like being asked to visit a Garda station, then keep track of them in the diary.

Forgive me for being dubious, but I find it hard to believe that at no point, getting in/out of your car in the subsequent weeks/months did you remember the request to present yourself at the Garda station. You also, presumably, actually put back your certificates at some point, did you remember then? You seem reasonably well able to remember that you have a summons to appear in court, but you didn't remember your requirement to present at a Garda station. Are you sure you didn't just take some pubstool advice that 'sure they never check up on that'

Star Lord

MrDerp wrote: »

I stand corrected. I always thought someone had to accept it.

As for the OP, something suddenly occurred to me. You have problems with your short term memory due to an illness? I have a suggestion for you. Carry a pocket diary. If you can't remember important things like being asked to visit a Garda station, then keep track of them in the diary.

Forgive me for being dubious, but I find it hard to believe that at no point, getting in/out of your car in the subsequent weeks/months did you remember the request to present yourself at the Garda station. You also, presumably, actually put back your certificates at some point, did you remember then? You seem reasonably well able to remember that you have a summons to appear in court, but you didn't remember your requirement to present at a Garda station. Are you sure you didn't just take some pubstool advice that 'sure they never check up on that'

I didn't say that I have no short term memory, it's just bad. Scatterbrained/forgetful would be the best way to describe it. I had an illness called Cushings Disease. There's a pretty big thread on it in the Long Term Illness thread. If you want, you can google Cushings Disease memory or Cortisol memory, you'll see that people that have had this have really patchy memory.

MrDerp

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

I didn't say that I have no short term memory, it's just bad.

Neither did I. In fact, it was the thrust of my argument

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Scatterbrained/forgetful would be the best way to describe it. I had an illness called Cushings Disease. There's a pretty big thread on it in the Long Term Illness thread. If you want, you can google Cushings Disease memory or Cortisol memory, you'll see that people that have had this have really patchy memory.

Googled. Apologies for my ignorance. I presumed that any deficiency in your short term memory would still be directed to trivial things like 'where did I leave my passport - I had it in my hand two seconds ago' or an inability to absorb information - 'I just read 3 pages of a book but didn't take any of it in'. These are normal situations in my daily life when my mind is stressed with work etc. If however, I had the threat of court I'd remember it.

But yeah with the benefit of google and a reduction of my ignorance, now I understand its the formation of the memory itself that's the issue - rather than the ability to access it. I still have difficulty applying that to an actual unusual encounter in ones day, but then I wouldn't understand not having had your condition.

I suggested the diary because without my work diary, any non-critical priority task would run the risk of being ignored. In fact, my lack of organisation was the chief complaint during reviews in my early career, I quickly accelerated when I got my diary You may wish to consider this, or a dicta-phone.

Star Lord

MrDerp wrote: »

Googled. Apologies for my ignorance.

No apology needed, I know it's a strange and unusual condition, so I expected the scepticism to be honest! Which is why I was worried it would come across as an excuse rather than a genuine reason when I try explain it to the garda! Times it's fine, times it's awful. I have tried the diary thing before and it didn't work for me, but I think I'll try it again. I had been stopped again after that, for the exact same thing, and had gone and produced the documentation as I'd set a reminder on my phone to do so, but even at that time, the original one hadn't even came back into my mind! It's very unusual, in that sometimes I'll remember , but sometimes I'll forget important things while trivial nonsense will stay in my memory, to the extent that I have gotten into my car, thought "Oh, I better stop for petrol!" and then driven home from work, past several petrol stations, and only remembered the petrol when I get in the car the next morning and the warning light comes on! Thanks for actually taking the time to check it though.

_Kaiser_

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

No apology needed, I know it's a strange and unusual condition, so I expected the scepticism to be honest! Which is why I was worried it would come across as an excuse rather than a genuine reason when I try explain it to the garda!

As well as your insurance docs, I'd bring something like a medical/doctor's cert or report to back up what you're telling him about the memory condition

Under the circumstances, from what you've described, I think it's an honest mistake tbh..

coylemj

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

As well as your insurance docs, I'd bring something like a medical/doctor's cert or report to back up what you're telling him about the memory condition

Under the circumstances, from what you've described, I think it's an honest mistake tbh..

Completely OTT to do that, the most he's going to be fined for not producing is 20 euros on each summons, producing medical certs. will only annoy the judge who will have a huge list of cases to deal with.

This is a minor road traffic offence, producing a medical cert. to explain why you forgot to produce would be a legal first and frankly would not go down well regardless of the merits of the OP's situation. All the judge and Garda care about is that the OP was insured, once that is established the likelihood is that the other charges will be dismissed.

OP, just say you forgot and you regret wasting the time of the Garda and the court, you'll get off.

igwe

please i need ur advice, few weeks ago i got stopped by the garda for drink driving and was alittle over the limit, the garda said i am 3 months disqulified and i will pay 300euro fine and also i have to bring in my insu cert and liences in the next 10days. the next 2 days i got my self insured as a name driver to the car becos my wife was the owner of the car and she was insured. so got my name added , did not tell the insurance what happened. went to the garda today and told them i added my name as a name driver. he said its an offences.

so i think i have drink drive offence........1

No insurance of the day been stopped......2

failure to produce insurance cert witing in 10days (which i am waiting for at the moment i have 4 days left)......3

Please do anyone know which kind of penalty point (disqulification years) and (FINE). Thanks

igwe

coylemj wrote: »

That is deffo the best advice. Even if you meet the Garda a week before the case and convince him that you were insured, the case in the District Court will still go ahead so you will have to turn up. Of the three summons, the second one you quoted is for no insurance, that one is way more serious than the others so don't get hung up on memory problems etc., your situation account for a large percentage of the cases which come before the district court which deals with minor motoring offences.

Meet the Garda before the case, either in his station or in the hallway of the court. If you meet him in the station make sure that he has his notebook and records the fact that you showed him an insurance cert. which covers you for the date on the summons. This ensures that when he is called in court he will tell the judge that he has seen your documentation, is satisfied that you were covered on the date in question and the 'no insurance' summons should be struck out.

You can then explain to the judge why you forgot to produce and why there was no valid disc on the wndscreen, there is no point in telling the Garda this story, he cannot pull the summons so you will have to go down to the court and explain it yourself. A solicitor would be a waste of money because even if the judge is in a bad mood he won't fine you more than 20 euros on each of the other summons, it's much more likely he will give you the Probation Act or strike them out.

please i need ur advice, few weeks ago i got stopped by the garda for drink driving and was alittle over the limit, the garda said i am 3 months disqulified and i will pay 300euro fine and also i have to bring in my insu cert and liences in the next 10days. the next 2 days i got my self insured as a name driver to the car becos my wife was the owner of the car and she was insured. so got my name added , did not tell the insurance what happened. went to the garda today and told them i added my name as a name driver. he said its an offences.

so i think i have drink drive offence........1

No insurance of the day been stopped......2

failure to produce insurance cert witing in 10days (which i am waiting for at the moment i have 4 days left)......3

Please do u or anyone know which kind of penalty point (disqulification years) and (FINE). Thanks

MagicMarker

igwe wrote: »

please i need ur advice, few weeks ago i got stopped by the garda for drink driving and was alittle over the limit, the garda said i am 3 months disqulified and i will pay 300euro fine and also i have to bring in my insu cert and liences in the next 10days. the next 2 days i got my self insured as a name driver to the car becos my wife was the owner of the car and she was insured. so got my name added , did not tell the insurance what happened. went to the garda today and told them i added my name as a name driver. he said its an offences.

so i think i have drink drive offence........1

No insurance of the day been stopped......2

failure to produce insurance cert witing in 10days (which i am waiting for at the moment i have 4 days left)......3

Please do anyone know which kind of penalty point (disqulification years) and (FINE). Thanks

LOL

A short stay in prison wouldn't go amiss.

Onwardandupwar

igwe wrote: »

coylemj wrote: »

That is deffo the best advice. Even if you meet the Garda a week before the case and convince him that you were insured, the case in the District Court will still go ahead so you will have to turn up. Of the three summons, the second one you quoted is for no insurance, that one is way more serious than the others so don't get hung up on memory problems etc., your situation account for a large percentage of the cases which come before the district court which deals with minor motoring offences.

Meet the Garda before the case, either in his station or in the hallway of the court. If you meet him in the station make sure that he has his notebook and records the fact that you showed him an insurance cert. which covers you for the date on the summons. This ensures that when he is called in court he will tell the judge that he has seen your documentation, is satisfied that you were covered on the date in question and the 'no insurance' summons should be struck out.

You can then explain to the judge why you forgot to produce and why there was no valid disc on the wndscreen, there is no point in telling the Garda this story, he cannot pull the summons so you will have to go down to the court and explain it yourself. A solicitor would be a waste of money because even if the judge is in a bad mood he won't fine you more than 20 euros on each of the other summons, it's much more likely he will give you the Probation Act or strike them out.

please i need ur advice, few weeks ago i got stopped by the garda for drink driving and was alittle over the limit, the garda said i am 3 months disqulified and i will pay 300euro fine and also i have to bring in my insu cert and liences in the next 10days. the next 2 days i got my self insured as a name driver to the car becos my wife was the owner of the car and she was insured. so got my name added , did not tell the insurance what happened. went to the garda today and told them i added my name as a name driver. he said its an offences.

so i think i have drink drive offence........1

No insurance of the day been stopped......2

failure to produce insurance cert witing in 10days (which i am waiting for at the moment i have 4 days left)......3

Please do u or anyone know which kind of penalty point (disqulification years) and (FINE). Thanks

Drink driving in this day and age there's no excuse even if u have a mouth full it's no driving end of how stupied are people and them the fact that u had no insurence are u for real cop on

Gumbo

igwe wrote: »

please i need ur advice, few weeks ago i got stopped by the garda for drink driving and was alittle over the limit, the garda said i am 3 months disqulified and i will pay 300euro fine and also i have to bring in my insu cert and liences in the next 10days. the next 2 days i got my self insured as a name driver to the car becos my wife was the owner of the car and she was insured. so got my name added , did not tell the insurance what happened. went to the garda today and told them i added my name as a name driver. he said its an offences.

so i think i have drink drive offence........1

No insurance of the day been stopped......2

failure to produce insurance cert witing in 10days (which i am waiting for at the moment i have 4 days left)......3

Please do u or anyone know which kind of penalty point (disqulification years) and (FINE). Thanks

you should lose your licence for 10 years minimum and jail sentenced IMHO.
as with all other drink drivers.