It's been 10 years since a Leinster team was last in a football final.

Downlinz

16 since Dublin were. Yet the Dublin media continues to hype up Dublin, Kildare and Meath year after year as strong contenders for whatever reason. Getting tired of it.

They excel in the weakest province and get flattened dramatically by the first decent team they meet year after year.

Kojak

Downlinz wrote: »

16 since Dublin were. Yet the Dublin media continues to hype up Dublin, Leinster and Meath year after year as strong contenders for whatever reason. Getting tired of it.

They excel in the weakest province and get flattened dramatically by the first decent team they meet year after year.

Tbh, the media hype dublin more than meath. Due to the large population and the chance of selling more papers.

The qualifiers suit the Leinster teams maybe more than their own provincial championship - look at Dublin last year or Meath in 07 and 09.

Hammer Archer

Downlinz wrote: »

Yet the Dublin media continues to hype up Dublin, Leinster and Meath year after year as strong contenders for whatever reason. Getting tired of it.

Eh wha???

dcr22B

Do Dublin ask to be hyped?

Media just want to sell papers and will use anything at their disposal to do so.

/thread

Downlinz

That should have been Dublin, Kildare and Meath not Dublin, Leinster and Meath.

Dublin and the surrounding areas I guess. I remember when Laois were very good a few seasons ago and never got the kind of hype those 3 have been regularly getting each season in the 2 or 3 years, so its not just a leinster thing.

Downlinz

dcr22B wrote: »

Do Dublin ask to be hyped?

Media just want to sell papers and will use anything at their disposal to do so.

/thread

Its TV pundits as well to be fair. I've regularly heard RTE pundits refer to Kerry, Cork and Dublin as "the big 3" for example. Baffling what Dublin have done to deserve such a status compared to the other two. Two weeks ago there was horrid negativity around Mayo despite being a league 1 side and despite a victory against Galway and on the same program despite defeat still maintained Kildare: a division 2 side have a strong All-Ireland chance. RTE wouldn't be doing it to sell papers, whats their angle?

sendit

dcr22B wrote: »

Do Dublin ask to be hyped?

Media just want to sell papers and will use anything at their disposal to do so.

/thread

There fans are on forms like this and Hoganstandall the time saying how its going to be there year every year and when they lose they always have an excuse. So its there fans more then anyone who hype them up

latenia

Downlinz wrote: »

Its TV pundits as well to be fair. I've regularly heard RTE pundits refer to Kerry, Cork and Dublin as "the big 3" for example. Baffling what Dublin have done to deserve such a status compared to the other two.

Yes, baffling. And I'm not even a GAA man.

All-Ireland total wins:

1 Kerry 36

2 Dublin 22

3 Galway 9

4 Cork 7

4 Meath 7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship

Hammer Archer

sendit wrote: »

There fans are on forms like this and Hoganstandall the time saying how its going to be there year every year and when they lose they always have an excuse. So its there fans more then anyone who hype them up

That's true for any county is it not? 99% of Dublin fans I've spoken to (the real ones that is, not the ones that appear from a 9 month hibernation in May) are totally realistic about their chances.

Downlinz wrote: »

Its TV pundits as well to be fair. I've regularly heard RTE pundits refer to Kerry, Cork and Dublin as "the big 3" for example. Baffling what Dublin have done to deserve such a status compared to the other two. Two weeks ago there was horrid negativity around Mayo despite being a league 1 side and despite a victory against Galway and on the same program despite defeat still maintained Kildare: a division 2 side have a strong All-Ireland chance. RTE wouldn't be doing it to sell papers, whats their angle?

Maybe because they went unbeaten in the league up until their collapse in the final? While I think the other two are still a bit ahead of them, who would you say are third favourites for Sam? Mayo needed extra time to beat a poor London side while they weren't exactly convincing against a shockingly poor Galway side so it would be stupid to have any hype behind them.
As for Kildare, it's been clear that they've been improving year on year and could have easily made the final last year. They are dark horses for the final again this year.

I do think it's annoying that no Leinster have been in a final since our appearance in 2001 but with the amount of Leinster teams in the semis year on year (seven since 2006), I think it's only a matter of time that a team breaks its duck.

corny

sendit wrote: »

There fans are on forms like this and Hoganstandall the time saying how its going to be there year every year and when they lose they always have an excuse. So its there fans more then anyone who hype them up

Find me a Dublin person on this forum who has said Dublin are definite All Ireland champions then?

Problem with you and the Anti Dublin brigade is its you with the problem. You treat any hint of optimism from a Dublin person as arrogance and conceit when in reality its just run of the mill championship excitement.

sendit

corny wrote: »

Find me a Dublin person on this forum who has said Dublin are definite All Ireland champions then?

Problem with you and the Anti Dublin brigade is its you with the problem. You treat any hint of optimism from a Dublin person as arrogance and conceit when in reality its just run of the mill championship excitement.

Hear we go with the Anti Dublin thing again. Every year Dublin are down as on of the faverates for the All Ireland whats it based on?

corny

sendit wrote: »

Hear we go with the Anti Dublin thing again. Every year Dublin are down as on of the faverates for the All Ireland whats it based on?

What do you mean here we go, <snip>

Its based on simple observation to answer your question. Last year they lost to the eventual winners by a point in a game they could easily have won. Are you saying its then unreasonable to assume they can turn that around on any given day?

rossie1977

latenia wrote: »

Yes, baffling. And I'm not even a GAA man.

if you are using stuff like that then surely cavan are far and away the biggest team in ulster........

dublin have won 2 all-irelands since 1977, one all ireland last 27 years, it is funny how much they do get hyped up though, i remember back in 1992 they were overwhelming favourites against a much more experienced donegal team and donegal won that match at a canter

Clareman

rossie1977 wrote: »

i remember back in 1992 they were overwhelming favourites against a much more experienced donegal team and donegal won that match at a canter

I think that might have been because of the 2 semi-finals, Dublin scored 3-14 against Clare in a very good game of football whereas Donegal scored 13 points to beat Mayo in a dire match

sendit

corny wrote: »

What do you mean here we go, <snip>

Its based on simple observation to answer your question. Last year they lost to the eventual winners by a point in a game they could easily have won. Are you saying its then unreasonable to assume they can turn that around on any given day?

Yes but but last year they were being hyped but after being hammered by Kerry the year before and the same thing that year after Tyrone had hammered them in 08. Ill admit this year they had done something the year before to warent being considered contenders

corny

sendit wrote: »

Yes but but last year they were being hyped but after being hammered by Kerry the year before and the same thing that year after Tyrone had hammered them in 08. Ill admit this year they had done something the year before to warent being considered contenders

So wait a second you're effectively saying last years 'hype' wasn't justified but it was because they contested a semi final they should have won? By that rationale only the teams that do well the previous year can be considered. Are you having a laugh here?

Putting aside the fact that that was largely a different team what does it prove? If i'm not mistaken the year Kerry did that to Dublin they lost badly to Cork in Munster, struggled to wins against Antrim and Longford and should have lost to Sligo. I think they got a late goal to shade it. Dublin on the other hand had beaten eventual semi finalists Meath and also beaten Kildare with 14 men in a very tough Leinster final. Now tell me why it was unreasonable to think Dublin had a chance in that game?

In 08 they lost to what i can only describe as the best footballing display i've seen at Croke Park. Dublin worked like dogs but were chasing shadows. Tyrone would have beaten any side comfortably that day for me.

K-9

Well it's obvious Ulster has gone back from the middle of the last decade and Connacht is poor and you've only 2 teams in Munster (no disrespect to Limerick). I'd say Leinster is probably the best provincial championship but it's more to do with Ulster falling back, still competitive but the standard has dropped.

Having said that they'd need to be getting a team to a final, the belief seems to be the problem getting there.

Downlinz

Hammer Archer wrote: »

That's true for any county is it not? 99% of Dublin fans I've spoken to (the real ones that is, not the ones that appear from a 9 month hibernation in May) are totally realistic about their chances.


Maybe because they went unbeaten in the league up until their collapse in the final? While I think the other two are still a bit ahead of them, who would you say are third favourites for Sam? Mayo needed extra time to beat a poor London side while they weren't exactly convincing against a shockingly poor Galway side so it would be stupid to have any hype behind them.
As for Kildare, it's been clear that they've been improving year on year and could have easily made the final last year. They are dark horses for the final again this year.

I do think it's annoying that no Leinster have been in a final since our appearance in 2001 but with the amount of Leinster teams in the semis year on year (seven since 2006), I think it's only a matter of time that a team breaks its duck.

I would say Kerry and Cork are in a class of their own at the moment and a number of teams are close behind. That includes Dublin, Kildare, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Down etc. It seems like the media will always view Dublin and the surrounding areas in a tier higher than they actually are.

Lemlin

K-9 wrote: »

Well it's obvious Ulster has gone back from the middle of the last decade and Connacht is poor and you've only 2 teams in Munster (no disrespect to Limerick). I'd say Leinster is probably the best provincial championship but it's more to do with Ulster falling back, still competitive but the standard has dropped.

Having said that they'd need to be getting a team to a final, the belief seems to be the problem getting there.

And how would you make that one out? Ulster had a team in the All-Ireland final last year. Ulster has six teams left in the championship this year. More than any other province.

Ulster is by far the most competitive province. Any one of five teams (Derry, Down, Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal) were in with a chance of winning the Ulster championship. Could the same be said of any other provincial championship?

Leinster has been an atrocious championship for the last decade and that's why no team has made the All-Ireland final. Yesterday's game was poor to say the least. I lost interest after about 20 minutes.

ciarriaithuaidh

Lemlin wrote: »

And how would you make that one out? Ulster had a team in the All-Ireland final last year. Ulster has six teams left in the championship this year. More than any other province.

Ulster is by far the most competitive province. Any one of five teams (Derry, Down, Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal) were in with a chance of winning the Ulster championship. Could the same be said of any other provincial championship?

Leinster has been an atrocious championship for the last decade and that's why no team has made the All-Ireland final. Yesterday's game was poor to say the least. I lost interest after about 20 minutes.

I'd have to agree with that..Ulster c/ship quality has gone down but still by far the hardest to win and has the most even spread of decent teams. None of Donegal, Derry, Tyrone or Down would be pushovers for anyone in Croker.

K-9

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

I'd have to agree with that..Ulster c/ship quality has gone down but still by far the hardest to win and has the most even spread of decent teams. None of Donegal, Derry, Tyrone or Down would be pushovers for anyone in Croker.

Neither would Dublin, Meath or Kildare. A few years ago there was no doubt that Ulster was the best by a large distance, I don't think it's as clear cut as that. Anyway, it's a bit pointless discussing it at this stage, there'll be a few match ups in the qualifiers that will make the current situation clearer. The big difference is Tyrone and Down have the knack of getting into AI finals, Leinster teams always seem to fall at the SF stage.

ciarriaithuaidh

K-9 wrote: »

Neither would Dublin, Meath or Kildare. A few years ago there was no doubt that Ulster was the best by a large distance, I don't think it's as clear cut as that. Anyway, it's a bit pointless discussing it at this stage, there'll be a few match ups in the qualifiers that will make the current situation clearer. The big difference is Tyrone and Down have the knack of getting into AI finals, Leinster teams always seem to fall at the SF stage.

Dublin & Meath have both been hockeyed at 1/4 final and semi final stage in recent years..Kildare have only got there twice and acquited themselves well..Kildare were a bit shafted last year and should prob have been in the final, BUT that is the only instance since 2001 of a Leinster team coming close to deserving a final appearance...1 team in 10 years? Thats shocking for Leinster really.
To be fair Dublin were carrying the can themselves a few years and it did them no favours coming up against Kerry, Tyrone etc after hammering Laois & Westmeath out the gate...

Bluetonic

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Dublin & Meath have both been hockeyed at 1/4 final and semi final stage in recent years

What year recently were Dublin hockeyed at the semi final stage?

Fact is they weren't.

ciarriaithuaidh

Bluetonic wrote: »

What year recently were Dublin hockeyed at the semi final stage?

Fact is they weren't.

No, they were only beaten by 17 points at the 1/4 final stage by Kerry in 2009 and I can't even remember how many in the 1/4 in 2008 by Tyrone..thats kinda what I meant when I said "1/4 final and semi final stage". The semi final loss to Mayo in '06 was prob worse than all of them though even though it was only a 1 pt defeat....

K-9

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Dublin & Meath have both been hockeyed at 1/4 final and semi final stage in recent years..Kildare have only got there twice and acquited themselves well..Kildare were a bit shafted last year and should prob have been in the final, BUT that is the only instance since 2001 of a Leinster team coming close to deserving a final appearance...1 team in 10 years? Thats shocking for Leinster really.
To be fair Dublin were carrying the can themselves a few years and it did them no favours coming up against Kerry, Tyrone etc after hammering Laois & Westmeath out the gate...

Dublin and Kildare have both put up decent accounts of themselves in Semi Finals recently, barring Tyrone and Down no Ulster team has got to the SF's recently, there's little in it after that.

Bluetonic

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

No, they were only beaten by 17 points at the 1/4 final stage by Kerry in 2009 and I can't even remember how many in the 1/4 in 2008 by Tyrone..thats kinda what I meant when I said "1/4 final and semi final stage". The semi final loss to Mayo in '06 was prob worse than all of them though even though it was only a 1 pt defeat....

So in fact they were never hockeyed at the semi final stage in recent years.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

ciarriaithuaidh

K-9 wrote: »

Dublin and Kildare have both put up decent accounts of themselves in Semi Finals recently, barring Tyrone and Down no Ulster team has got to the SF's recently, there's little in it after that.

A decent semi final performance is an achievement now? Look, this thread has gone on too long anyway...anybody can see that Leinster teams have been underachieving and that none in a final since 2001 is brutal...anyone arguing to the contrary is in denial. Maybe it'll change this year and ye can all come back and tell us where to go, who knows.

ciarriaithuaidh

Bluetonic wrote: »

So in fact they were never hockeyed at the semi final stage in recent years.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

No problem...if that's the sort of comfort you seek!

K-9

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

A decent semi final performance is an achievement now? Look, this thread has gone on too long anyway...anybody can see that Leinster teams have been underachieving and that none in a final since 2001 is brutal...anyone arguing to the contrary is in denial. Maybe it'll change this year and ye can all come back and tell us where to go, who knows.

That's what I said, it's pointless arguing this until this season is over. The Kildare/Meath vs. Ulster finalist Qualifier will tell a lot and future match ups as to where exactly they fit in. Donegal, Armagh and Derry haven't reached Semi Finals in a few years so I'd be careful with the decent SF performance as a negative yardstick, they don't even have that.

Bluetonic

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

No problem...if that's the sort of comfort you seek!

I don't seek any comfort just think that it's pretty pointless making a factually incorrect statement when it's easier to tell it like it is. Don't you agree or would you rather we all make up information? I think that would lead to a degree of chaos.

ciarriaithuaidh

Bluetonic wrote: »

I don't seek any comfort just think that it's pretty pointless making a factually incorrect statement when it's easier to tell it like it is. Don't you agree or would you rather we all make up information? I think that would lead to a degree of chaos.

Dublin & Meath have both been hockeyed at 1/4 final and semi final stage

I thought that most people would have made the sequential connection there that I meant Dublin - trouble in 1/4 final
Meath - Useless in semi final.

But in future for your benefit, I'll include the word "respectively" wherever possible....;)

Lemlin

The fact that teams like Dublin and Kildare have fared better when knocked out of Leinster speaks volumes. Quality just isn't there in the province. This has been going on since 2001. For example, Westmeath won Leinster in 2003 and were then knocked out by Derry, a pretty average Ulster team at the time.

The likes of Laois also did very little in the quarter and semi finals of the All-Ireland, despite being a top Leinster side around the middle of the decade.

Dublin tend to perform better in the quarters and semis when they come through the qualifiers and have a few games to harden them, rather than an easy run in in Leinster.

The qualifers and the league don't lie either. Ulster had seven teams in the top two divisions this year. Leinster had very few. I can't remember the stats but I think it was something like 5 out of 12 in Division 1 and 2 whereas Ulster had 7 out of 9. The fact also remains that there are six Ulster teams out of nine left in the qualifiers. Only Monaghan, Cavan and Fermanagh (two of those very weak Ulster sides) have lost.

K-9

Lemlin wrote: »

The fact that teams like Dublin and Kildare have fared better when knocked out of Leinster speaks volumes.

It's kind of a strange argument though, often used at Donegal and Derry too.
The fact they get knocked out shows it's pretty competitive and that they do well in the qualifiers show they are a match for teams outside Leinster, barring the top 2/3 obviously. The draw was a bit lopsided this season and now Kildare and Meath are playing each other after the Laois game.

It's a pretty redundant argument these days tbh. You've Cork, Kerry and arguably Tyrone as the top 3. Over the last couple of years, Dublin, Meath and Kildare have consistently reached Quarter and Semi Finals and are as good as any of the other top teams. Down have to prove last year wasn't a flash in the pan.

Reaching finals isn't the defining criteria either. Mayo have reached a couple in the last decade, does that mean Connacht is better? :eek:

Downlinz

K-9 wrote: »

It's kind of a strange argument though, often used at Donegal and Derry too.
The fact they get knocked out shows it's pretty competitive and that they do well in the qualifiers show they are a match for teams outside Leinster, barring the top 2/3 obviously. The draw was a bit lopsided this season and now Kildare and Meath are playing each other after the Laois game.

It's a pretty redundant argument these days tbh. You've Cork, Kerry and arguably Tyrone as the top 3. Over the last couple of years, Dublin, Meath and Kildare have consistently reached Quarter and Semi Finals and are as good as any of the other top teams. Down have to prove last year wasn't a flash in the pan.

Reaching finals isn't the defining criteria either. Mayo have reached a couple in the last decade, does that mean Connacht is better? :eek:

In the past decade Mayo and Galway have both been better than anything Leinster have had.

K-9

Downlinz wrote: »

In the past decade Mayo and Galway have both been better than anything Leinster have had.

Whatever about Mayo, Galway's results in the last decade say no.

Downlinz

Kildare out today coupled with a strong Tyrone performance surely makes Dublins odds slim and a likely 11 year wait?

DoctaDee

Oh right .. the team that went the whole NL campaign unbeaten losing only to the reigning NL & AI champions in the final .. picked it up to win their 6 Leinster in 7 years have a "slim" hope of making the final ..

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

K-9 wrote: »

Whatever about Mayo, Galway's results in the last decade say no.

As a Galwegian I agree completely. We've been living off the two AI in 98 & 00 for some time now. Our reputation precedes us greatly. I'd say right now we're only the third, if not fourth best team in Connacht, Mayo and Roscommon the best.

As for the weakest province debate, I don't think anyone can argue that Connacht are. Have we even had a semi-finalist in the last 5 years? Sure, Mayo got to to AI finals back in 04 & 06 but didn't show up at either one. Leinster are streets ahead of us and I'd even rate them as the second best province. Don't think Ulster have much going for them atm, I'd expect Dublin to beat Tyrone and Donegal to get to the AI before losing to Kerry and that will finally put this weakest province debate to bed.

But we all know this stuff comes in cycles! Mayo, Roscommon & Galway have all had good minor and U-21 teams in recent years and I'd expect them to be challenging once for AIs in maybe 6/7 years.

K-9

THFC wrote: »

As a Galwegian I agree completely. We've been living off the two AI in 98 & 00 for some time now. Our reputation precedes us greatly. I'd say right now we're only the third, if not fourth best team in Connacht, Mayo and Roscommon the best.

As for the weakest province debate, I don't think anyone can argue that Connacht are. Have we even had a semi-finalist in the last 5 years? Sure, Mayo got to to AI finals back in 04 & 06 but didn't show up at either one. Leinster are streets ahead of us and I'd even rate them as the second best province. Don't think Ulster have much going for them atm, I'd expect Dublin to beat Tyrone and Donegal to get to the AI before losing to Kerry and that will finally put this weakest province debate to bed.

But we all know this stuff comes in cycles! Mayo, Roscommon & Galway have all had good minor and U-21 teams in recent years and I'd expect them to be challenging once for AIs in maybe 6/7 years.

I loved that Galway team myself. I remember watching them lose to Donegal in the QF replay in Castlebar in 03 and something wasn't right. We played blanket defence that day in the second half, but ye had your chances but just didn't take them, we took ours, Sweeney and Devenney on fire.

The belief from that era seemed to go and ye never recovered. Galway remind me of that Donegal team after that year, talented but when it comes down to it the belief isn't there. You need a manager that can install the belief in them again, the talent is undoubtedly there.

Het-Field

Downlinz wrote: »

Kildare out today coupled with a strong Tyrone performance surely makes Dublins odds slim and a likely 11 year wait?

A large victory, over a side of limited experience, and dubious quality, does not signal the return of Tyrone as a force. While it has set down a marker, next weekend's game should be somewhat different as Dublin would take Roscommmon too.

Kingdom

THFC wrote: »

As a Galwegian I agree completely. We've been living off the two AI in 98 & 00 for some time now.

Ahem.

ascanbe

Kingdom wrote: »

Ahem.

01', i think he meant, when Galway absolutely torched the Meath team that torched Kerry in the semi-final.
Galway probably should've have won the final in 00', though; certainly in the first game and probably the replay.
There is no 'should've' though, i suppose; Kerry usually win those games and that's why they are where they are.
Still, Galway scored probably the greatest goal ever seen in Croke Park in that final; that goal, perfect pass after perfect pass sweeping the length of Croke Park, culminating in the incredible finish by Declan Meehan was just sublime.
Kerry could only ever dream of scoring a goal like that.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Kingdom wrote: »

Ahem.

Gawd.... 01 was meant! 00 was close tho! I think Im right in saying we lost on a Saturday, the first and last?

mfceiling

ascanbe wrote: »

01', i think he meant, when Galway absolutely torched the Meath team that torched Kerry in the semi-final.
Galway probably should've have won the final in 00', though; certainly in the first game and probably the replay.
There is no 'should've' though, i suppose; Kerry usually win those games and that's why they are where they are.
Still, Galway scored probably the greatest goal ever seen in Croke Park in that final; that goal, perfect pass after perfect pass sweeping the length of Croke Park, culminating in the incredible finish by Declan Meehan was just sublime.
Kerry could only ever dream of scoring a goal like that.

Apart from this one...

Downlinz

DoctaDee wrote: »

Oh right .. the team that went the whole NL campaign unbeaten losing only to the reigning NL & AI champions in the final .. picked it up to win their 6 Leinster in 7 years have a "slim" hope of making the final ..

Leinster is the weakest province, winning it back to back means they're the best of a bad bunch. The League is the League. In the championship Dublin struggled against a mediocre Kildare and a poor Wexford who went on to lose to Limerick, not to mention they haven't made the final in 16 years. So Yes I would call it a slim chance, I'd expect Tyrone to beat them.

DoctaDee

Downlinz wrote: »

Leinster is the weakest province, winning it back to back means they're the best of a bad bunch. The League is the League. In the championship Dublin struggled against a mediocre Kildare and a poor Wexford who went on to lose to Limerick, not to mention they haven't made the final in 16 years. So Yes I would call it a slim chance, I'd expect Tyrone to beat them.

Fair enough .. with Kildare gone now it really only leaves a bit of Dublin baiting. The league is the league ? .. thats a nothing statement - tell that to Cork

It takes a very good team to beat Dublin ... last 4 teams to beat Dubs won the AI - and 7 in 9 years ... won't stop us hoping that a final is within our reach ... and you and the "ha ha" brigade can wait and have yer laugh

Het-Field

Downlinz wrote: »

Leinster is the weakest province, winning it back to back means they're the best of a bad bunch. The League is the League. In the championship Dublin struggled against a mediocre Kildare and a poor Wexford who went on to lose to Limerick, not to mention they haven't made the final in 16 years. So Yes I would call it a slim chance, I'd expect Tyrone to beat them.

Tyrone's victories have come against a youthful Roscommon, and an aged and decrepid Armagh team, and a poor Monaghan team. Donegal (who's true worth is yet to be displayed) have beaten them, reducing them to 9 points.

As such, I cannot believe you would call it a "slim chance", when neither team has been particularly impressive this term.

Downlinz

Slim is maybe hyperbole. But I would say its more likely one of Tyrone or Donegal will beat them than not.

And in fairness youthful or not that Roscommon team really isn't that bad at all, beating them by 11 points is very impressive in my eyes.

DoctaDee

Downlinz wrote: »

Slim is maybe hyperbole. But I would say its more likely one of Tyrone or Donegal will beat them than not.

And in fairness youthful or not that Roscommon team really isn't that bad at all, beating them by 11 points is very impressive in my eyes.

Could Dublin have put 11 points on Roscommon ? .. with the greatest of respect to Ros who are probably 2-3 years from reachin their full potential .. I think yes ..