MX5 rear disc conundrum

dr.fuzzenstein

Got delivery of a set of MX5 rear discs.
Checked all tutorials available on the web, they all agree with each other.
Basically, they say to remove the calliper from the rear brakes and the disc will fall out into your hands, no more screws to be undone.
This is from Miata.net and the Red MX5 site.
However, it looks like there's a central nut holding the wheelbearing assembly in place and that's also holding the disc in place.
I have tried to undo the nut (socket with extension bar and raining blows onto it for 5 minutes), but it doesn't move a single millimetre.
The nut is tapped into a grove, I have tapped it out again, but no good.
If that is the nut holding the wheelbearing in place, shouldn't it be done up lightly?
Will an impact gun help?
I am literally stuck.
The car is a '00 1.6 MX5. It has the regular brakes, not the large size ones.

ZENER

A build up of rust will sieze the disc to the wheel hub. The nut you're trying to loosen is the bearing nut so stop doing that before you damage it!

One of the sites you mention gives this advice: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=364522. Read post #3

You need to obtain a gentle persuader Failing that a decent lump hammer should suffice

Ken

Greyfoot

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Got delivery of a set of MX5 rear discs.
Checked all tutorials available on the web, they all agree with each other.
Basically, they say to remove the calliper from the rear brakes and the disc will fall out into your hands, no more screws to be undone.
This is from Miata.net and the Red MX5 site.
However, it looks like there's a central nut holding the wheelbearing assembly in place and that's also holding the disc in place.
I have tried to undo the nut (socket with extension bar and raining blows onto it for 5 minutes), but it doesn't move a single millimetre.
The nut is tapped into a grove, I have tapped it out again, but no good.
If that is the nut holding the wheelbearing in place, shouldn't it be done up lightly?
Will an impact gun help?
I am literally stuck.
The car is a '00 1.6 MX5. It has the regular brakes, not the large size ones.

Never done it on a Mazda before but most rear discs I changed were stuck for some reason. I recently changed my discs all around on my beemer, rear left disc was a pain in the a**e to take off.
Get yourself a heavy hammer and bash the disc from behind, turn the disc hit it again, repeat till it comes off.

dr.fuzzenstein

Thanks everyone.
Yes, you're right. I left the center nut alone, since it looks like the disc just sits on the hub.
Been raining blows on it all afternoon on both sides with quite a hefty hammer, it has not moved one micron.
Might have to leave this one to the garage.
Because, not only are both discs seized solid to the hub, the left calliper had a hole in the gasket for the brake piston, that was seized solid too.
Got the piston out, the wall of it is eaten away.
So I now have a full set of brake pads for my MX5, none of which fit (thanks, Mick's Garage), two rear discs that I cannot fit and one fcuked calliper.
So the car's not going anywhere at the moment.

dr.fuzzenstein

Also:
Does anyone know how to put the W shaped spring clips back in place?
As far as I can see you will need to be at least 10 times better with your fingers than Houdini, it takes me half an hour to get them in place exactly like in the picture and if I don't move or breathe, they will stay in place for a split second.
But as soon as a butterfly on the other side of the world opens it's wings, they ping out.
Surely it cannot take half an hour per spring, only for them to ping off immediately?
I cannot see how that design could EVER have worked, why design something that's about as useful as a toffee kettle?

Greyfoot

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Thanks everyone.
Yes, you're right. I left the center nut alone, since it looks like the disc just sits on the hub.
Been raining blows on it all afternoon on both sides with quite a hefty hammer, it has not moved one micron.
Might have to leave this one to the garage.
Because, not only are both discs seized solid to the hub, the left calliper had a hole in the gasket for the brake piston, that was seized solid too.
Got the piston out, the wall of it is eaten away.
So I now have a full set of brake pads for my MX5, none of which fit (thanks, Mick's Garage), two rear discs that I cannot fit and one fcuked calliper.
So the car's not going anywhere at the moment.

Your handbrake shoes might have stuck on the inside of the disc. Is there any spring-like movement on the discs when you hit them?
Caliper can be bought in a scrapyard cheap if you are lucky enough.
As for the anti-rattle clip you struggle with, there might be some technique to put it back to stay in place.

dr.fuzzenstein

Greyfoot wrote: »

Your handbrake shoes might have stuck on the inside of the disc. Is there any spring-like movement on the discs when you hit them?
Caliper can be bought in a scrapyard cheap if you are lucky enough.
As for the anti-rattle clip you struggle with, there might be some technique to put it back to stay in place.

No brake shoes AFAIK, handbrake working on the discs.
Also, the disc turns freely by hand, so stuck shoes not an option.
When I hit the brake discs there is no springiness, they are seized as solid as can be.
I will try and get the biggest rubber mallet I can find and try some serious violence.
Will have to get a calliper, but how many MX5's are there in scrapyards around Limerick?
Might have to go new on that one.
I managed to free the piston in the old calliper, but brake fluid is just pissing out of it.
Drove the car out of the garage, stopped and drove it back in.
Everytime I activated the brakes, the pedal just sank to the floor.:eek:
At least the Ford's going strong (knock on wood).:cool:
But the clip?
The only way it will work is to fit it the wrong way round.
If you fit it the right way, it takes half an hour, pings off 35 times and as soon as you tap the brakes, ditto.
If you fit it the wrong way, it is secure, stays in place and cannot ping off.
I service printers and it's the same thing. Some things are designed very specifically not to work and be impossible to fit.
Must be a Japanese thing, all that origami does something to your head I'm sure.

Greyfoot

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No brake shoes AFAIK, handbrake working on the discs.
Also, the disc turns freely by hand, so stuck shoes not an option.
When I hit the brake discs there is no springiness, they are seized as solid as can be.
I will try and get the biggest rubber mallet I can find and try some serious violence.
Will have to get a calliper, but how many MX5's are there in scrapyards around Limerick?
Might have to go new on that one.
I managed to free the piston in the old calliper, but brake fluid is just pissing out of it.
Drove the car out of the garage, stopped and drove it back in.
Everytime I activated the brakes, the pedal just sank to the floor.:eek:
At least the Ford's going strong (knock on wood).:cool:
But the clip?
The only way it will work is to fit it the wrong way round.
If you fit it the right way, it takes half an hour, pings off 35 times and as soon as you tap the brakes, ditto.
If you fit it the wrong way, it is secure, stays in place and cannot ping off.
I service printers and it's the same thing. Some things are designed very specifically not to work and be impossible to fit.
Must be a Japanese thing, all that origami does something to your head I'm sure.

Ok, so the disc seized completely then. Soak the centre hub and the back of the disc with wd40 (dont forget t clean it off later) and do some damage on the disc, might have to give it a few bashes from the front of the disc too, not just the back.
Dont know any scrappy around limerick but have a number here somewhere, they located up north, they very cheap and deliver no problem, might worth a shot. Will post their number later on if I find it.
As for the clips any chance that you gotta fit new ones each time you change pads?

dr.fuzzenstein

Greyfoot wrote: »

Ok, so the disc seized completely then. Soak the centre hub and the back of the disc with wd40 (dont forget t clean it off later) and do some damage on the disc, might have to give it a few bashes from the front of the disc too, not just the back.
Dont know any scrappy around limerick but have a number here somewhere, they located up north, they very cheap and deliver no problem, might worth a shot. Will post their number later on if I find it.
As for the clips any chance that you gotta fit new ones each time you change pads?

I thought so as well, the pads I got sent (2 sets of wrong ones) had no clips or shims with them.
Not impressed.

Mar4ix

I had similar with my friends nissan skyline, had to change handbrake shoes , and rear brake disks had to go off... i spent nearly an hour in each side, with hammer, gently hitting on disk central area ... with lots of wd40 until got them off ...

CJhaughey

Have you got any ATF fluid?
Mix that with some Kero at 1:1 ratio and use that as a penetrating liquid.
Secondly have you got any heating equipment?
A Propane or Mapp torch heating the disc at the bottom where it slips over the hub assembly might expand the metal enough to slide it off.

zinzan

Most discs have two extra threaded holes on the inner section that appear empty - specifically to help getting them off - you screw in two (usually) M8 bolts and tighten them in, which forces off the disc.
I'd be surprised if the MX5 doesn't have these. Makes a huge difference when taking off a seized disc.

EDIT: The link ZENER gave above mentions this in more detail & with a photo (post 6 & 7)

Greyfoot

Couldn`t find the number I mentioned but here is a link. There are plenty of mx5`s around the island.

dr.fuzzenstein

I was able to locate a reconditioned calliper through a motorfactors in Limerick, should be there tomorrow.
He also has all the clips that go with the pads I still haven't got.

As for the discs (no point changing them till I got the pads), I still have a sledgehammer out the back, if I hit the discs full force with that one a few times, will it dislodge the discs, or possibly do more damage?

CJhaughey

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

if I hit the discs full force with that one a few times, will it dislodge the discs, or possibly do more damage?

You might smash them.

dr.fuzzenstein

CJhaughey wrote: »

You might smash them.

No great loss, they're well gone at this stage.
Right now car is on stands and the old calliper is packed up to for exchange with a recon one, the discs are soaking in a good dose of WD40, the saga continues...

dharn

any update, discs off yet ?

dr.fuzzenstein

Right, update.
After finding the left rear calliper was pissing brake fluid, I had to get a recon one.
And a large plastic mallet.
So I went to work yesterday, since the calliper was off, first came the discs.
After hitting the discs from behind and rotating them a quarter for a few minutes, off they popped. Shiny new discs on, shiny recon calliper on the left and cleaned up calliper on the right.
I managed to obtain the correct pads today and will go to fit them now.
Then top up brake fluid and bleeding the system.
One really annoying thing:
I CANNOT get springs and clips for her MX5 at ANY shop in Limerick.
After being to every motorfactors, I decided to go to Mazda directly.
I was told "nodon'thavethemgotoamotorfactors"
After asking a bit more I was told they could order them, but the springs and clips would cost:
80 FCUKING EURO!!!!!!!!
No thanks.
I'll fit the smeggy old springs for now and, as usual, will have to order from the UK.
It seems that the handful of people who own MX5's around Limerick are doing the same, because parts are nowhere in stock.:mad:
Though it has to be said the calliper and pads where got for me by Munster Car Parts and arrived overnight, so well happy there.

dharn

interesting mx5, forums always give the impression that parts are readily available are cheap and the cars are easy to work on ,never rust and never go wrong, now we find its a bit different here

dr.fuzzenstein

dharn wrote: »

interesting mx5, forums always give the impression that parts are readily available are cheap and the cars are easy to work on ,never rust and never go wrong, now we find its a bit different here

Well, mostly correct, parts are available, but if you happen to live in the west and you're trying to source parts locally, it can be tricky. It's Focus and Corolla all the way here, everything else is viewed as suspicious.
My brakepads had to be ordered in because there's no demand for them. The clipset for the brakes will take a few days to get. The shop told me this was their first request for them.
The Mazda dealers want stupid fcuking money for parts, so they're out, too.
So far I have always ordered parts from the UK, no problem there, mx5.co.uk or onlineautomotive, they have everything.
MX5's are pretty reliable, ignition packs can go wrong and when they do, it can wreck the cat.
The car has done 100000 miles so far without too many problems, overall it's good.
And as for rust, not a sausage so far, knock on wood.:)
I suppose Dublin would be easier too, that's where the calliper came from, same for parts from scrapyards.
My main problem on this was a knackered calliper, that was due to a dust seal splitting, which wrecked the piston, that can happen on every car.
And they are easy to work on, but it helps to have all the right parts to start with.;)
Anyways, pads are fitted, brakes are bled, took her for a good, hard spin and the car stops on it's nose.
All's well and so on...:cool:

dharn

thanks for reply, living in the west myself dreaming of getting mx5 but will probably stay dreaming ! so read a lot about them etc

dr.fuzzenstein

dharn wrote: »

thanks for reply, living in the west myself dreaming of getting mx5 but will probably stay dreaming ! so read a lot about them etc

Should be perfectly practical to have one, they're not too exotic, if you're servicing it yourself it's just best to plan ahead and get the parts in a bit ahead of time.
For the last 60000 miles 95% of the work was oil, filter, oil, filter and tires.
The only trouble was the aftermarket alarm (faulty relays draining battery) and the ignition pack, as soon as you hear it run on three cylinders, change it.
After that it is a pure delight.

PS:
If you're getting it as your sole car, get a hardtop!

101sean

My son in the UK has an early MX5 and has driven it over to me for work (and to buy me beer ) a couple of times. Found it pretty easy to work on, renewed all the braking and cooling systems and fitted some fancy coil overs. Few minor things caused a bit of head scratching, like snapping a rusted fine thread M10 bolt in the suspension (not something you get off the shelf!) but that's the same with any older car that needs a bit of work :rolleyes:

Advice from forums does seem to be pretty good as does spares support. As Dr Fuzzenstein says, a bit of pre-planning, assume the worst on an old car and order absolutely everything you may need. If you don't need it, it's on the shelf for future use or to help a fellow owner out.

Paid for a quality Mohair hood for his car but seeing how my 101 canvas has gone green in our wet climate, it would need a lot of care here.

franksm

Did you try the MX5Ireland forum at all ? Someone there may have the bits. www.mx5ireland.com/forum

Also, here they are at a UK supplier for £8 - http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/958

These are genuine Mazda parts. Don't go near Mazda Ireland, they're a complete rip-off - they charged me eur32 per bolt for four of those suspension bolts that were mentioned earlier (I have the invoice as proof if anyone needs it). Ended up buying the same parts from across the water for £5 each

Yeah, parts are readily available and cheap for MX5s - but only if you buy from outside Ireland unfortunately.

I also bought a coil pack from a US Mazda dealer for $128 + $32 shipping. Same part from the UK was £180 I think; local price from Belgard in Dublin was EUR380

dr.fuzzenstein

franksm wrote: »

Did you try the MX5Ireland forum at all ? Someone there may have the bits. www.mx5ireland.com/forum

Also, here they are at a UK supplier for £8 - http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/958

These are genuine Mazda parts. Don't go near Mazda Ireland, they're a complete rip-off - they charged me eur32 per bolt for four of those suspension bolts that were mentioned earlier (I have the invoice as proof if anyone needs it). Ended up buying the same parts from across the water for £5 each

Yeah, parts are readily available and cheap for MX5s - but only if you buy from outside Ireland unfortunately.

I also bought a coil pack from a US Mazda dealer for $128 + $32 shipping. Same part from the UK was £180 I think; local price from Belgard in Dublin was EUR380

Thanks for that, was just remembering had to look up that fitting kit!
All I'm missing is a clip, how annoying is that!
Have bought lots of stuff from mx5.co.uk, plugleads, filters, grille for the air intake and a coilpack amongst other things.

JAMES VTI S

I have the same problem now with my MK1 1.6. Two calipers with seized pistons, thinking of going getting a couple of refurbished units. What did they cost, I'm from Limerick also.