Enda's Kenny first major failure as Taoiseach

anymore

The selection of Gay Mitchell as Fine Gael's candidate for the Office of President of Ireland represents a major and very public rejection of Mr Kenny's own strategy by the party rank and file.
The opening paragraph of a Sunday Independent article on the matter describes Mr Kenny as being " slumped and being unable to contain his disappointment.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kenny-seen-to-slump-as-mitchell-wins-nomination-2817752.html

It is of course not the first time that Mr Kenny's ' parachute policy has failed. In the case of George Lee who resigned as a TD almost as fast as he was elected, the failure was visible for all to see. Prior to that , his parachuting of his wife's cousin as a euro candidate, into the Munster constituency, resulted in the unseating of the sitting FG candidate, Colm Burke with the result that there was no net gain for FG but a good deal of resentment was built up towards Kenny in the Cork area. That resentment may have been a factor in the Cork TD, Deirdre Clune, who supported Kenny in the leadership tussle, losing her her seat at the general election. FG completely failed to unseat the two sitting FF TD's in the Cork South Central constituency thereby bucking the national trend.
The strategy of pushing a candidate, Pat Cox, who had opposed FG as a member of FF and then as a member of the PDs and then as an Independent had raised concerns about Kenny's judgement. Has Enda Kenny already peaked ?

rodento

Or was it the promise he made to the roscommon people than completely denied making

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0710/roscommon.html

Or the cock up in europe over the 1% interest rate cut:eek:

goat2

mairead mcginness would be the candidate of the three to get my vote, i would not even consider the other two, prefer her down to earth mannerism, but sorry to see mary macleese going, the best person in the job. a great embassador.

anymore

rodento wrote: »

Or was it the promise he made to the roscommon people than completely denied making

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0710/roscommon.html

Or the cock up in europe over the 1% interest rate cut:eek:

Well I would distinguish this from those two matters in that it was an issue of national importance and one which was entirely within FG's control. It was his opportunity to show there was substance behind the image. He cant blame brussels, he cant blame FF, he can't blame the market. he cant even suggest that this was down to a few malcontents within the party.

Fulton Crown

MMMMMMM ...yes..

FG are appearing to score a few "own goals" as the action speeds up.

To use an exprssion that I detest ...Kenny ..needs to "get a grip".

The handlers like the Silver Fox Flannery need to pull out the finger and protect their man from these embarrissing situations.

Any contentious decisions ....and their will be many...need to be thought through and people brought on side.

I say this not as a FG supporter but as one who detests handing ammunition to those gimps from Fianna fail.

Settle Enda !......engage the brain before the gob.......handlers get the fcukin finger out.

Don't blow it lads....

Sand

I dont particularly like Enda Kenny (his handling of George Lee was poor - betraying his complete misunderstanding of why Lee was popular), but there can be a tendency to blow minor things up into grand epic drama. Given so little of note happens in Irish politics, I suppose its understandable.

The selection of Gay Mitchell for an inconsequential and cermonial role is not a major and very public rejection of Mr Kennys own strategy. Hence the rest of the analysis falls at the first hurdle.

femur61

I can see why they were pushing for Pat Cox, Gay Mitchel will not be getting my vote. FG are pupets of the EU/IMF and nothing else, I don't blame them for this but the showre of F's before them.

I heard a couple of doctors from other hospitals on the radio during the week and they agreed with the A&E closure, they said it was a reccomendation from HIQA.

anymore

Sand wrote: »

I dont particularly like Enda Kenny (his handling of George Lee was poor - betraying his complete misunderstanding of why Lee was popular), but there can be a tendency to blow minor things up into grand epic drama. Given so little of note happens in Irish politics, I suppose its understandable.

The selection of Gay Mitchell for an inconsequential and cermonial role is not a major and very public rejection of Mr Kennys own strategy. Hence the rest of the analysis falls at the first hurdle.

Whether any one of this events is major or minor will be up to each individual to decide. However when in a relatively short space of time a pattern is seen to emerge, then the events may take on more importance than they originally had. After all who would at first glance have thoought that a break in at an american building might lead to the resignation of a US President ?

nice_guy80

femur61 wrote: »

I can see why they were pushing for Pat Cox, Gay Mitchel will not be getting my vote. FG are pupets of the EU/IMF and nothing else, I don't blame them for this but the showre of F's before them.

I heard a couple of doctors from other hospitals on the radio during the week and they agreed with the A&E closure, they said it was a reccomendation from HIQA.

HIQA is a joke
it was put in place bythe HSE so that hospitals and other health units could be closed on 'patient safety' or 'health and safety grounds'. It is doing exactly what the HSE wants

but HIQA were only called in once these facilities had been denied funds, staff and resources from the HSE so naturally they hadn't much chance to be up to scratch!

Sully

How is it a failure of Kenny? He didn't have the final say and he can't control how people vote.

His first failure was not learning from the mistakes of Fianna Fail by promising something. Never promise anything, nothing is guaranteed.

ilovesleep

rodento wrote: »

Or was it the promise he made to the roscommon people than completely denied making

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0710/roscommon.html

Or the cock up in europe over the 1% interest rate cut:eek:

So what are us Irish going to do about this? Roll around and allow FG to behave like FF. Allowing FG to eventually exploit us for their own benefit and gains.

Fulton Crown

ilovesleep wrote: »

So what are us Irish going to do about this? Roll around and allow FG to behave like FF. Allowing FG to eventually exploit us for their own benefit and gains.

No!

Just be mature enough to realise that there can be a gap between what politicians promise and what politicians actually deliver .

It happens everywhere .

The decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

Robust alternate facilities are now in place.

The only mistake Kenny made was publicily promising not to close it and then denying that.

The handlers are to blame for that....falling down on the job.

COYW

Sully wrote: »

His first failure was not learning from the mistakes of Fianna Fail by promising something. Never promise anything, nothing is guaranteed.

Agree, he or FG had no need to promise anything to people. They could have been brutally honest and would still have gotten into power.

the groutch

COYW wrote: »

Agree, he or FG had no need to promise anything to people. They could have been brutally honest and would still have gotten into power.

might have even gotten an overall majority if he had been straight with everyone, rather than promising the moon and the stars

syklops

Didn anyone else read the title and think this was going to be about something actually important?

Cookie_Monster

syklops wrote: »

Didn anyone else read the title and think this was going to be about something actually important?

yep, like the total failure of the government to do anything useful since they came to office for example?

DJCR

Fulton Crown wrote: »

No!

Just be mature enough to realise that there can be a gap between what politicians promise and what politicians actually deliver .

It happens everywhere .

The decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

Robust alternate facilities are now in place.

The only mistake Kenny made was publicily promising not to close it and then denying that.

The handlers are to blame for that....falling down on the job.

You guys are some hypocrites!! During the last government you would have been calling for resignations, writing newspaper articles and running to the news cameras if something like Roscommon happened.

COYW wrote: »

Agree, he or FG had no need to promise anything to people. They could have been brutally honest and would still have gotten into power.

Yes, but this is the new politics that they promised. (Another forgotten promise)

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yep, like the total failure of the government to do anything useful since they came to office for example?

Well that would be a harsh analysis, but they would want to get the finger out.

syklops

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yep, like the total failure of the government to do anything useful since they came to office for example?

Thats a discussion for another thread.

anymore

Up to now, FG supporters would have claimed that one of Mr Kenny's great assets was that he was a decent honourable man and the public in general, whatever about thier opinions about his abilities in general, would have gone along with this. However he has now put himself in a position where the Leader of the Opposition can say " “This is a serious instance not just because he was caught falsely denying his own claims, but because he has done so repeatedly and misled the Dáil on this matter as recently as this week. " ........
"
“On Tuesday he angrily rejected my claim that he had made a commitment to the hospital and said he was ‘sick of words being put into [his] mouth’.
“He clearly would have kept to this line if a journalist hadn’t kept a recording of his election statement in Roscommon,” Mr Martin said.........
Full article at :
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0711/breaking4.html

This may be an embarassing moment for Stephen Collins of the Irish Times who had written several articles recently praising Mr Kenny to the skies.

syklops

anymore wrote: »

Up to now, FG supporters would have claimed that one of Mr Kenny's great assets was that he was a decent honourable man and the public in general, whatever about thier opinions about his abilities in general, would have gone along with this. However he has now put himself in a position where the Leader of the Opposition can say " “This is a serious instance not just because he was caught falsely denying his own claims, but because he has done so repeatedly and misled the Dáil on this matter as recently as this week. " ........
"
“On Tuesday he angrily rejected my claim that he had made a commitment to the hospital and said he was ‘sick of words being put into [his] mouth’.
“He clearly would have kept to this line if a journalist hadn’t kept a recording of his election statement in Roscommon,” Mr Martin said.........
Full article at :
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0711/breaking4.html

This may be an embarassing moment for Stephen Collins of the Irish Times who had written several articles recently praising Mr Kenny to the skies.

Sounds more like FF mud slinging to be honest.

EK said "“I was at pains around the country to say, on more than one radio station, that I wasn’t travelling the country making promises that I couldn’t stand over". This is a lot different to EK saying "I didnt promise to keep emergency services at roscommon hospital", which he didnt. He promised to keep services open at Roscommon Hospital. Services have been reduced, but the hospital is still open.

anymore

A hospital that doesnt treat emergencies strikes me as being rather like a fire brigade service which only goes on calls when appointments are made !

syklops

anymore wrote: »

A hospital that doesnt treat emergencies strikes me as being rather like a fire brigade service which only goes on calls when appointments are made !

Bad analogy.

Hospitals also deal with out-patients, cancer treatment, long term treatment, care of the elderly, and a myriad of other things that I dont even know about.

EDIT:

Here is the list of services they still provide:

Bed Management

Cardiac Department

Cardiac Rehabilitation Department

Clinical Nutrition and Dietetics

Diabetes

Haemovigilance

Infection Control

Out - Patient Department

Operating Theatre

Palliative Care

Pharmacy

Respiratory Department

Speech and Language Therapy

Supplies Department

Surgical pre-op Assessment

X Ray Department

Sully

the groutch wrote: »

might have even gotten an overall majority if he had been straight with everyone, rather than promising the moon and the stars

Doubtful, people bought into the promises. It was more a 'hesitation' I think. Massive mistake and it wasn't just Kenny, so it shall be interesting how it will work out. I look forward to a future poll.

nice_guy80

Fulton Crown wrote: »

No!

Just be mature enough to realise that there can be a gap between what politicians promise and what politicians actually deliver .

It happens everywhere .

The decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

Robust alternate facilities are now in place.

The only mistake Kenny made was publicily promising not to close it and then denying that.

The handlers are to blame for that....falling down on the job.

Cannot believe you are believing the spin on the alternate facilities put in place. Every GP in Roscommon has said the new arrangements are unsafe

Where are you from btw? Have you ever tried to drive from parts of Roscommon to Galway, or even anywhere? The roads are terrible. How long will you now be waiting for an ambulance on the side of the road if you have an accident, stroke or cardiac attack because the ambulance has to come from Galway or elsewhere?

Cookie_Monster

Loughlinstown is losing / partially losing it's A&E also, a lot quieter than this though which is surprising.

What the catchment of Roscommon, I would have thought much lower than Loughlinstown, considering it covers all the way down to Gorey...

rodento

syklops wrote: »

Didn anyone else read the title and think this was going to be about something actually important?

The simple fact is that Enda's promise was to protect and defend the accident and emergency department at Roscommon Hospital has resulted in FG losing one TD and two councillors.

Was just one of his many promises

nice_guy80

Eamon Gilmore promised the same...

http://shannonside.ie/uploads/podcasts/95.mp3

Raiser

Re. the Roscommom A&E fiasco it was interesting to see Enda clumsily lying about his lying - He actually apologised for the "confusion" we were having - As though we didn't quite "get it".

The only reason Endas insincerity and dishonesty have not been apparent for the entire duration of his political career is because he spent so long as a second-rate non-contender - he simply never had an opportunity to expose himself as he never got into a position where this might occur......

........Also never forget that Enda is only Taoiseach today because FF and the Greens imploded - Even his own Party couldn't back him/tolerate him/stand the sight of him 10 minutes before he lucked his way into Office.

This Teacher who couldn't be ar$ed teaching is a class A, 24 carat, unbelievable Fcukwit.

- Given enough time and enough rope he'll hang himself over and over and possibly somehow manage to shoot himself in the process too.

rodento

Raiser wrote: »

Re. the Roscommom A&E fiasco it was interesting to see Enda clumsily lying about his lying - He actually apologised for the "confusion" we were having

Enda's promise was to protect and defend the accident and emergency department at Roscommon Hospital, which was followed by this earlier this week by I wasn’t travelling the country making promises that I couldn’t stand over, and obviously being very careful about that

What can you say:(

Cathal O

I believe the clock is now ticking, but I dont believe the g'ment will collapse ..yet. Labour and FG have waited too long in the sidelines to throw in the towel and they have such a majority that such Naughten -eske banishing can continue for the moment and not threaten their majority.

However, such promises have been broken and willl ensure that a re election of these candidates is unlikely, the same promises and denials were the fore front of FF's health minstery, which EK & co were the first to attack.

While people will defend EK saying that he did not lie saying it was simply a misunderstanding, if you were one of the demonstraters on the campaign trail in roscommon, what would the objective person have thought

The Taoiseach, under questioning in the Dáil, has dismissed questions about the personal pledges he made to constituents about Roscommon Hospital, describing this line of questioning as ‘‘pathetic’’.

But in a recording of his address in Roscommon made by The Sunday Business Post in , Kenny said: ‘‘You know in the accident and emergency what it takes and what needs to be done and what can be done in your own local hospital here.

And we will protect and defend that . . .We are committed to maintaining the services at Roscommon County Hospital."

He poured scorn on ‘‘decisions by bureaucratic people in a room far away from here’’.

How can anyone stand here and deny that there was confusion in his speech in febuary, it is simplly that EK has lied, and lied about lying, and had this recording not come out he would not be admitting this. This begs the question what else has he lied about.

bijapos

Sand wrote: »

The selection of Gay Mitchell for an inconsequential and cermonial role is not a major and very public rejection of Mr Kennys own strategy. Hence the rest of the analysis falls at the first hurdle.

Ehhhhh..... it is not an inconsequential role, its the President and FG's rejection of what was quite obviously the party hierarchys choice (Pat Cox) is a slap in the face to Kenny, Hogan, Flannery & co. FG want this Presidentship more than anything, it would be a huge achievement for them if they get it and they will be throwing money and resources at it to beat the band. Its a defeat for Kenny, albeit it an internal Fg one, accept it as such and leave out the spin.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

No!

Just be mature enough to realise that there can be a gap between what politicians promise and what politicians actually deliver .

It happens everywhere .

Point is Kenny said he would not make promises he could not keep but has done a major U-turn on this. The hospital issue always has been a big one in Roscommon, Kenny made his promises in February thus getting involved in parish pump gombben politics of the worst kind. Thats his fault and nobody elses.

The decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

Robust alternate facilities are now in place.

As someone else said above maintaing A&E in a remote area is vital, your "robust alternative facilities" being the hospital in Galway are already dangerously overcrowded.

The only mistake Kenny made was publicily promising not to close it and then denying that.

The handlers are to blame for that....falling down on the job

That "mistake" is a blatant lie in most peoples book, and its not the handlers, its Kenny who is to blame for this mess.

Btw, as a Rossie I was always in favour of shutting down the hospital, which is a kip but maintaining a full proper working A&E. I've two neighbours who would be dead if it wasnt for the A&E unit there. Both were seriously injured in farm accidents, were taken to Roscommon A&E, were stabilised there until they could be taken somewhere else.

rodento

Have to say I'm beginning to see why Enda apologised over the confusion about the hospital A & E Closure

Was he blaming a health and Safety Report or the Ecomany:rolleyes:

Enda Kenny insisted there would be no reversal of the decision to close the hospital’s emergency department despite protests.
However, Mr Kenny, speaking in Swinford, Co Mayo, indicated that resources were a factor in the Government’s decision.

“The challenging situation that we face economically filters down to the Department of Health, and the health situation [is] central to that,” Mr Kenny said.

tolosenc

I find it quite hilarious to hear Mícheál Martin criticising FG for not living up to promises. I mean, for the love of god, his party is the creme-de-la-creme of promise-breakers and backhander-takers.

Please, no one listen to the utter ****e that FF spew, don't let them turn anything into ammunition against anyone.

bijapos

tolosenc wrote: »

I find it quite hilarious to hear Mícheál Martin criticising FG for not living up to promises. I mean, for the love of god, his party is the creme-de-la-creme of promise-breakers and backhander-takers.

Please, no one listen to the utter ****e that FF spew, don't let them turn anything into ammunition against anyone.

I personally couldn't give a damn what Martin or anyone in FF thinks or says. But it doesn't excuse Kenny and his actions over the past few days and it doesn't mean that we can't question him to his actions.

whippet

tolosenc wrote: »

I find it quite hilarious to hear Mícheál Martin criticising FG for not living up to promises. I mean, for the love of god, his party is the creme-de-la-creme of promise-breakers and backhander-takers.

Please, no one listen to the utter ****e that FF spew, don't let them turn anything into ammunition against anyone.

FF historic actions should not be used as a smoke screen for the inadequacies of the incumbents ... Will the government spend the next five years ignoring criticism due to FF history ? Anyway Martin is the leader of the opposition and therefore has a democratic right to speak ...

DJCR

syklops wrote: »

Sounds more like FF mud slinging to be honest.

EK said "“I was at pains around the country to say, on more than one radio station, that I wasn’t travelling the country making promises that I couldn’t stand over". This is a lot different to EK saying "I didnt promise to keep emergency services at roscommon hospital", which he didnt. He promised to keep services open at Roscommon Hospital. Services have been reduced, but the hospital is still open.

i don't think Fianna Fail made the rcording of Enda or Eamonn for that matter (labour seem to be escaping the fact they also made a commitment).

tolosenc wrote: »

I find it quite hilarious to hear Mícheál Martin criticising FG for not living up to promises. I mean, for the love of god, his party is the creme-de-la-creme of promise-breakers and backhander-takers.

Please, no one listen to the utter ****e that FF spew, don't let them turn anything into ammunition against anyone.

To be fair, the amunition in this case should not exist. FG basically sticky bombed themselves, Fianna Fail are allowed to ask the questions, sorry, they are supposed to ask the questions as leaders of the opposition, albeit a very small one.

This is the first major issue for the government and they have failed miserably, there will be harder issues and seen as FG went into the election offering the sun moon and stars there will be broken promises at every corner.

T'will be interesting.

rodento

Looks like there are mayor questions over the HIQA reports, do you think Enda will reverse the decision to shut the A & E in Roscommon...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/inspectors-never-visited-roscommon-before-shutdown-2819331.html

anymore

It would seem that Pat Cox and Roscommon are the least of Kenny's problems as Moody's have cut Ireland's cred rating to Junk status .. perhaps they finally realised we werent joking that we replaced our former Minister for Finance who was only a barrister with a new one who is only a teacher !
" Moody's has tonight cut Ireland's credit rating to junk.
The ratings agency said it was downgrading the country's bond ratings by one notch to Ba1 from Baa3 with a negative outlook. "

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0712/breaking54.html
our Taoiseach is a teacher, our finance minister is a teacher a our leader of the opposition is a...teacher. There must be a lesson there for us somewhere ?

rodento

Have i missed something...

Anyone know how the remaining A&E's are going to handle the increase in demand, are they going to be given extra funding:eek:

I've been asking myself why are they shutting down so many A&E's over the last few days and am beginning to think its another stealth tax. Reason is simple, they are trying to force people away from A&E and on to the local GP's, saves the government money and force's people to send alot more on medical fees

anymore

rodento wrote: »

Have i missed something...

Anyone know how the remaining A&E's are going to handle the increase in demand, are they going to be given extra funding:eek:

I've been asking myself why are they shutting down so many A&E's over the last few days and am beginning to think its another stealth tax. Reason is simple, they are trying to force people away from A&E and on to the local GP's, saves the government money and force's people to send alot more on medical fees

Well in truth a lot of people use the A & E as a substitute for a doctor's visit. I suppose a levy might be placed to pubs and off licences to help finance the operations of A & E at weekends which is their busiest period .

nesf

rodento wrote: »

Have i missed something...

Anyone know how the remaining A&E's are going to handle the increase in demand, are they going to be given extra funding:eek:

I've been asking myself why are they shutting down so many A&E's over the last few days and am beginning to think its another stealth tax. Reason is simple, they are trying to force people away from A&E and on to the local GP's, saves the government money and force's people to send alot more on medical fees

Eh it's more expensive to go to A&E than it is to go to your GP. Has been that way for years.

rodento

To true, but repeat visits are free(if its related to first visit), as are stuff like physio

One trip to A&E can save you a small fortune.

nesf

rodento wrote: »

To true, but repeat visits are free(if its related to first visit), as are stuff like physio

One trip to A&E can save you a small fortune.

Yeah but A&E is free if referred by a GP. So if you had something that required multiple trips to A&E it'd be even cheaper going to your GP first.

anymore

nesf wrote: »

Eh it's more expensive to go to A&E than it is to go to your GP. Has been that way for years.

A lot of people simply do not pay.

alchemist33

Fulton Crown wrote: »

No!


The decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

Robust alternate facilities are now in place.

The only mistake Kenny made was publicily promising not to close it and then denying that.

Or, to put it another way, before the election, the decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct wrong one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

After the election, the decision to shut a small under utilised A&E in a remote part of the country was the correct one both from a patient care and finance viewpoint.

anymore

I suppose it in the interests of balance, it should be said to see Kenny taking a more robust attitude to the Vatican in relation to the Cloyne scandal than any of his predcessors.

rodento

Couldn't have said it better myself

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/endas-continuing-uncertainty-making-things-worse-2823572.html

nesf

rodento wrote: »

Couldn't have said it better myself

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/endas-continuing-uncertainty-making-things-worse-2823572.html

Ah yes, Willie O'Dea, the very man to cast stones at the current Taoiseach...

eagle eye

nesf wrote: »

Ah yes, Willie O'Dea, the very man to cast stones at the current Taoiseach...

I suppose you can say in hindsight the same thing about Enda Kenny when he was in opposition.

MOSSAD

his first major cockup I think is not taking the bull by the horns and tossing the papal nuncio out of the countryand seizing and nationalising all church assets. Reckon that might help plug a hole in the deficit.

nuac

Mossad - nationalising church assets?

Assuming the legal and constitutional difficulties could be surmounted, that idea would not be popular with your average FG supporter