Mass killing spree in Grand Rapids ends as gunman takes own life

whiteboy

Suspect said he would "kill them all"

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (AP) -- Hours after the shooting stopped, a car chase ended and a gunman wanted for killing seven people took three hostages, Michigan authorities still hoped that the suspect might surrender without another death.

Police in Grand Rapids tried to talk an agitated Rodrick Shonte Dantzler into giving up late Thursday. They said his thoughts seemed to swing between surrender and asking officers to shoot him.

http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/pnr-mass-killing-spree-in-grand-rapids-gunman-takes-hostages-20110707,0,6641599.story


Man collapses as he discovers his daughter has been killed
http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-07/355597660-07184008.jpg

Needler

What is it with people in the States and going on killing sprees? Its not the guns because there are other countries where everyone has a gun and they don't feel like going on killing sprees.

Maybe because it's such a sh1t place to live?

3ndahalfof6

Needler wrote: »

What is it with people in the States and going on killing sprees? Its not the guns because there are other countries where everyone has a gun and they don't feel like going on killing sprees.

Maybe because it's such a sh1t place to live?

its the fast food

rossie1977

Needler wrote: »

What is it with people in the States and going on killing sprees? Its not the guns because there are other countries where everyone has a gun and they don't feel like going on killing sprees.

yeah because gun killing sprees only happen in the states...

drdeadlift

rossie1977 wrote: »

yeah because gun killing sprees only happen in the states...

You know what point he meant right?

Needler

rossie1977 wrote: »

yeah because gun killing sprees only happen in the states...

Seems like it. I know there was one in Finland a few years back but most are in the states

BluesBerry

rossie1977 wrote: »

yeah because gun killing sprees only happen in the states...

It seems to happen there more than anywhere else.

rossie1977

BluesBerry wrote: »

It seems to happen there more than anywhere else.

just today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14091832

Needler

rossie1977 wrote: »

just today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14091832

At least that spree had a purpose, in the States they just go and kill as many people as they can out of dispair and depression

More than 34,000 people have been killed in the last four years in Mexico's crackdown on the drug gangs, the government said in January.

Christ. That's a scary statistic.

BluesBerry

rossie1977 wrote: »

yeah because gun killing sprees only happen in the states...

rossie1977 wrote: »

just today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14091832

So what are you trying to say its ok that someone randomly starts shooting people because it happens in other countries too

The mexico one was drugs and a turf war reading this one was just a physco and a young child was involved, a few months ago a senator was a causulty among shoppers when another physco with easy access to a gun decided to destroy lives, Washington state shooting's a few years back where they drove around shooting people

everyone in America thinks its there right to own a gun and look what mess its in, Their laws need to be changed

TheZohanS

Needler wrote: »

At least that spree had a purpose, in the States they just go and kill as many people as they can out of dispair and depression

Had a purpose? :rolleyes:

Shootings happen all over the world, not just in the US. Do you not remember Derrick Bird? Dunblane? Two separate shootings in Finland? Canada? Brazil?

Enough of the US bashing.

TheZohan

TheZohan wrote: »

Had a purpose? :rolleyes:

Shootings happen all over the world, not just in the US. Do you not remember Derrick Bird? Dunblane? Two separate shootings in Finland? Canada? Brazil?

Enough of the US bashing.

Yes, but just compare that to the frequency that happens in the US and you just know that something really isn't right.

BluesBerry

A man who claimed his daughter was inside the house where three bodies were found collapses in the street Thursday, July 7, 2011 in Grand Rapids, Mich. Police say seven people have been fatally shot at two locations in the western Michigan city of Grand Rapids and the victims include a child. (AP)

Yes it seems so that mans life is destroyed now too

This is the American dream?...they can keep it

Wolfe Tone

Its GTA I tell ya Joe, GTA, all the kids want these days is killstreaks!



RIP to all involved, killer obviously had issues.

TheZohanS

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but just compare that to the frequency that happens in the US and you just know that something really isn't right.

Compare it to the Unites States of Europe and you get a better and fairer comparison.

TheZohan

TheZohan wrote: »

Compare it to the Unites States of Europe and you get a better and fairer comparison.

How so? You are comparing one country to dozens.

Overheal

Needler wrote: »

At least that spree had a purpose, in the States they just go and kill as many people as they can out of dispair and depression

You think you understand why the guy went on a killing spree do you? Or are you otherwise saying that the killings in Mexico are justified in some way because they are understandable?

BluesBerry wrote: »

So what are you trying to say its ok that someone randomly starts shooting people because it happens in other countries too

Thats really not what he said at all. You're just having a sly go at the US for all of your political angst at it.

How so? You are comparing one country to dozens.

Not if you regard a State as a Country, which in pretty much all forms of function they are. The only difference is the lack of border control and a federal government. State governments still operate. If you can't see that happening to Europe down the road, you're living in a fantasy.

TheZohanS

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? You are comparing one country to dozens.

So it's fair to compare one country with a population of 310million to say Ireland with a population of 4.5million?

Per capita the US has 1/10th the gun related homicides of South Africa and it has a lower gun related homicide rate than Estonia.

Marty McFly

TheZohan wrote: »

Compare it to the Unites States of Europe and you get a better and fairer comparison.

United States of Europe

Anyways you seriously cannot be saying that America doesnt have a problem with random killing sprees? You cant use South America as reference for proof yeh what happens there is terrible but there drug turf wars slightly different next youl be using the war in Afghanistan to make a point.

Yes you do get people in different pars of th world going on random killing sprees but no were near as frequent as they happen in America, for instance the one in Finland was two pyscho kids who tried to copy the Columbine kids, if you remeber back when that happened America was shocked but they happen so frequently these days they barely cause a stir.

Overheal

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

Yes you do get people in different pars of th world going on random killing sprees but no were near as frequent as they happen in America, for instance the one in Finland was two pyscho kids who tried to copy the Columbine kids, if you remeber back when that happened America was shocked but they happen so frequently these days they barely cause a stir.

I can't recall any frequent school shootings and pipe bombings these days. Care to provide a link to those?

Marty McFly

TheZohan wrote: »

So it's fair to compare one country with a population of 310million to say Ireland with a population of 4.5million?

Per capita the US has 1/10th the gun related homicides of South Africa and it has a lower gun related homicide rate than Estonia.

But you see were not talking about murder rates per capita, yes America mightnt be the murder capital of the world, but for random killing sprees im prety sure it is. Same again in South Africa murder occurs because of crime, not some lunaitc going on a mad one and killing everyone in sight.Surely you must see the differance?

BluesBerry

Overheal wrote: »

I can't recall any frequent school shootings and pipe bombings these days. Care to provide a link to those?

http://tamilhelp.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/timeline-us-shooting-sprees-history-of-school-shootings/

TheZohanS

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

United States of Europe

United States of Europe.

Anyways you seriously cannot be saying that America doesnt have a problem with random killing sprees? You cant use South America as reference for proof yeh what happens there is terrible but there drug turf wars slightly different next youl be using the war in Afghanistan to make a point.

Yes you do get people in different pars of th world going on random killing sprees but no were near as frequent as they happen in America, for instance the one in Finland was two pyscho kids who tried to copy the Columbine kids, if you remeber back when that happened America was shocked but they happen so frequently these days they barely cause a stir.

Can you quote me where I said America doesn't have a problem with random killing sprees?

Where did I use South America as a reference? Did you actually read my post or decide to derpety derp derp derp? I also uses Estonia as an example, there's no turf war going on there.

YFlyer

Only in America

BluesBerry

An elderly man shoots five last month

"It's a tragedy," the mayor said, adding that the shooting was especially troubling coming just five months after six people were killed and 13 others wounded, including Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, in a shooting rampage across the state in Tucson.

I would call that pretty recent

Marty McFly

TheZohan wrote: »

Brazil?

Theres your South America reference:rolleyes: did you read your own post.

Overheal wrote: »

I can't recall any frequent school shootings and pipe bombings these days. Care to provide a link to those?

No what I meant was that, that was one of the mass killing sprees that really shocked America for its lack of reasoning etc, now days Americans to a certain extent have become accustomed to ranom killing sprees.

TheZohan wrote: »

United States of Europe.



Can you quote me where I said America doesn't have a problem with random killing sprees?

Where did I use South America as a reference? Did you actually read my post or decide to derpety derp derp derp? I also uses Estonia as an example, there's no turf war going on there.

You didnt say it didnt say you didnt or did have a problem but youve been trying to deflect away from one countrys own problems by refrencing other countrys problems with gun crime, To be honest I dont know much about Estonia but again whats that got to do with Americas problem random killing sprees?

Overheal

YFlyer wrote: »

Only in America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Bratislava_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

Marty McFly

Overheal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Bratislava_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

There yeh go again, trying to delfect away form one countrys problems, like look look they have them two were not that bad, sure going by that logic ill just say Ireland economy isnt that bad now everyone close there eyes, id spin them around and land them all in Greece and go see look at there economy ey ey.

Kojak

Once again the gun control laws in america will be called into question. The sad fact of the matter is that if these kind of nutters want to go on a killing spree, its pretty difficult for the authorities to stop them before it happens. Maybe in some very obvious cases, it would be known that the individual in question is mentally unstable, but how many times have we heard testimony about "how he was such a nice lad" "You'd never have thought he was capable of this" etc. etc.

Ally Dick

It's gonna happen in Ireland before too long, mark my words. There are guns all over the place. It's a disgrace. The cops should have sorted it out by now

TheZohanS

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

Theres your South America reference:rolleyes: did you read your own post.

Turf war?

A gunman has shot dead at least 12 children at a school in the Brazilian city of Rio de Janeiro before killing himself, police say.

At least 12 others were wounded when the man entered the school with two revolvers and began shooting.

The killer has been identified as 23-year-old former pupil Wellington Menezes de Oliveira

Source

That's from April by the way

No what I meant was that, that was one of the mass killing sprees that really shocked America for its lack of reasoning etc, now days Americans to a certain extent have become accustomed to ranom killing sprees.



You didnt say it didnt say you didnt or did have a problem but youve been trying to deflect away from one countrys own problems by refrencing other countrys problems with gun crime, To be honest I dont know much about Estonia but again whats that got to do with Americas problem random killing sprees?

I'm not deflecting anything. What I'm saying is that random shootings happen all over the world, not just the US. Estonia has a higher gun murder rate than the US but you don't see any threads about that, sure there's no fun in bashing Estonia.

The US bashing threads are getting tired.

orourkeda

Killing. Excellent

Overheal

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

There yeh go again, trying to delfect away form one countrys problems

What am I deflecting? Falsehood statements that it happens nowhere else in the world?

Nobody here - none of you - are actually interested in discussing the root issue. More interested in the logically fallible one liners and feeling smug that people died and it wasn't in your backyard.

Overheal

Estonia has a higher gun murder rate than the US but you don't see any threads about that, sure there's no fun in bashing Estonia.

This.

orourkeda

TheZohan wrote: »

Turf war?



Source

That's from April by the way





I'm not deflecting anything. What I'm saying is that random shootings happen all over the world, not just the US. Estonia has a higher gun murder rate than the US but you don't see any threads about that, sure there's no fun in bashing Estonia.

The US bashing threads are getting tired.

I think you'll find that there is.

thomasj

BluesBerry wrote: »

http://tamilhelp.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/timeline-us-shooting-sprees-history-of-school-shootings/

You know you really have a problem when things like this happens

February 2000: A six-year-old girl is shot dead by a classmate in Michigan.

Overheal

orourkeda wrote: »

I think you'll find that there is.

Lets do it.

YFlyer

Kojak wrote: »

Once again the gun control laws in america will be called into question.

Any changes? 'Over my dead body'

Marty McFly

TheZohan wrote: »

I'm not deflecting anything. What I'm saying is that random shootings happen all over the world, not just the US. Estonia has a higher gun murder rate than the US but you don't see any threads about that, sure there's no fun in bashing Estonia.

The US bashing threads are getting tired.

Overheal wrote: »

What am I deflecting? Falsehood statements that it happens nowhere else in the world?

Nobody here - none of you - are actually interested in discussing the root issue. More interested in the logically fallible one liners and feeling smug that people died and it wasn't in your backyard.

Well if your so concerned what the root of the problem is why dont you tell us what your theory is? Instead of posting up shooting from all over the world:rolleyes:. Stop being so defensive jesus do you ever read boards we bash our own country enough on here never mind America or anywhere else in the world, the op posted up something which made the news over here so thats what caught his attention.

BluesBerry

As it was stated before it happens in america more often there probably would be more mass shooting's in Europe if europe had the same laws they have in america but they dont so its rare it happens

Overheal and Zohan sound like they are defending this

And yes I can sit here in my country all smug not worried random mass shootings that happens so frequently in America

It wasn't me!

So, what do you imagine this homogenous set of gun laws in Europe is? The problems are social, not legislative. It's like the idea that criminalising suicide would deter people from committing it.

RichieC

Not surprising in a country where "gun" is synonymous with "freedom" but where ordinary folk get threatened with jail for growing tomatoes in their front garden.

Richard Dower

whiteboy wrote: »

Suspect said he would "kill them all"/QUOTE]

Spartacus fan then

Killer Wench

It doesn't only happen in the US - these random acts of violence. The Irish public are just more likely to hear about it since we are both English speaking countries, we have a significant relationship, and you receive quite a bit of our daily news, tv programming, and movies.

Here's a story from South Korea that happened on the 4th:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/04/137600073/officials-4-killed-in-south-korea-shooting

Here's a story from Mexico that happened in 2009:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112503893

(Note: If you want to talk about violence, let's talk about the drug war happening on the Mexican and US border committed by Mexican drug gangs.)

Here's a story from Slovakia from last August:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/slovakia/7971532/Slovak-shooting-spree-kills-six-and-injures-14.html

listermint

Forget the volume on a country by country basis.

But it is clear that the US majestic untouchable gun laws have a major part to play in the scale of incidents that occur. How about you guys use that as a topic rather than deflecting incidents by volume. And no its not America bashing before you start.

I just fear for places where 14/16 year olds can legally own firearms. It literally makes no sense.

Killer Wench

listermint wrote: »

Forget the volume on a country by country basis.

But it is clear that the US majestic untouchable gun laws have a major part to play in the scale of incidents that occur. How about you guys use that as a topic rather than deflecting incidents by volume. And no its not America bashing before you start.

I just fear for places where 14/16 year olds can legally own firearms. It literally makes no sense.

Aren't guns banned in the UK? So, have there been no gun crimes committed there?

These type of crimes are committed by individuals who are hellbent on causing destruction. Even if guns were banned in the US, do you think that would mean that there wouldn't be any guns in the country? Or, that someone wouldn't find another way to kill someone?

And, it is America bashing. There are plenty of threads here that seem to enjoy highlighting the negative aspects of American life. There are plenty, but if it is so problematic, petition to the Irish government to cease recruiting Americans to Irish institutions, release travel notices to Irish citizens advising them not to travel to the US, and make a massive recall of Irish citizens living in the US. Meanwhile, those wishing to emigrate to the US should stop throwing their name into the lottery; those wishing to visit should hire private security to take them around the place.

As for 14/15 year olds owning guns, there are still areas in this massive country where people rely on hunting as their primary source of food. There are still places in the US where bears and wolves roam freely. And, yes, there are individuals who own and carry hand guns, but most of them are responsible gun owners who own them for their own peace of mind. You may not understand it, but it is something protected in our Constitution, so consider it a cultural and political difference and charge it to the game.

Da Shins Kelly

TheZohan wrote: »

Had a purpose? :rolleyes:

Shootings happen all over the world, not just in the US. Do you not remember Derrick Bird? Dunblane? Two separate shootings in Finland? Canada? Brazil?

Enough of the US bashing.

No one is "bashing" the US. It is certainly strange that shootings like this seem to happen far more frequently in the States than anywhere else. Of course, mass shootings happen elsewhere, but not nearly as often as in the US. In Mexico, it's a drugs war, which is entirely different to a kid walking into their school and shooting it up, or someone walking into a crowd and opening fire.

Dunblane was quite an isolated incident; nothing like that has happened since in Scotland. Likewise, Derrick Bird's spree was something that is very rarely seen in England. There have been a grand total of three shooting sprees in Great Britain. Two shootings have happened in Finland, which is two too many, but not exactly an epidemic.

It's impossible to deny that there is a problem in the US with regards to guns and who owns them. There is definitely something wrong if any maniac or angry teenager can get their hands on a gun and open fire on innocent people without any signs of provocation. It's not "bashing" the US, it's just telling it as it is. It's doing a greater disservice to victims to attempt to deny or downplay the severity of problems like this in the States.

Logical Fallacy

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? You are comparing one country to dozens.

It makes more sense from the point of view of population size, and when you consider different states will have very different demographics, customs etc

Millicent

TheZohan wrote: »

I'm not deflecting anything. What I'm saying is that random shootings happen all over the world, not just the US. Estonia has a higher gun murder rate than the US but you don't see any threads about that, sure there's no fun in bashing Estonia.

The US bashing threads are getting tired.

In fairness to Zohan here, he has a good point. While the spree rates in the States are higher than other places, they're not the worst in the world. I think on the other hand though, our access to US media, news and popular culture means we just hear of it more from the States than, for example, Estonia.

I'm not a big fan of the gun laws/crime in America by any means but we still have to maintain perspective.

It wasn't me!

listermint wrote: »

I just fear for places where 14/16 year olds can legally own firearms. It literally makes no sense.

You mean like, for example, here? 14 is the minimum age for a training certificate, where you can use a firearm under supervision of the person who owns it. 16 is the minimum age for a standard firearm certificate, which entitles the holder to use the firearm without supervision and to own it themselves.