Dropped car in for repair, No Call just goes ahead and does a big Repair

ronan45

Ok so I dropped my car into a local mechanic for him to look at while i was in work. Told him the symptons. It has just passed the NCT ( Couldnt be anything big the car revs when first starting in the mornings and the emmissions light comes on)

8 hours later I collected it, his apprentice was only there told me they had to finish a minor adjustment on it the next morning and i woudl need to drop it back the next morning. I asked what was wrong with it he told me he didnt know as he had not worked on it. Fair enough
Dropped it over again this morning. I just collected it and the apprentice again was only there. With an ASTRONOMICAL bill. I was expecting 250 euro tops!
Would you expect the mechanic to at least call if the repair was going to be out of the ordinary? The apprentice said " Sure you sent it in to be repaired didnt ya or just a quote on a repair"
If i knew it wasnt going to cost me a fortune i would of quoted around i trusted the guy using him 4 years

I assumed, ok if its Major he will call me.

MagicSean

What was the bill and what was it for?

crosshair1

Why are you dealing with the apprentice??
What car, what was done?

coolbeans

My head hurts reading your post. I suggest using commas and more full stops. How much did he charge in the end? What was done? This is pretty crucial information.

Raiser

Not on - He's not licensed to print his own currency.......

- The day of Irish People happily paying any amount of money over to Chancers without any questions asked in case they might look poor/tight/cheap is hopefully long gone.

Wolfe Tone

coolbeans wrote: »

My head hurts reading your post. I suggest using commas and more full stops. How much did he charge in the end? What was done? This is pretty crucial information.

Stop bitching I could read it grand

coolbeans

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Stop bitching I could read it grand

Insightful. Thanks for that. :rolleyes: Moving on, so what was done and how much did it cost?

goat2

ronan45 wrote: »

Ok so I dropped my car into a local mechanic for him to look at while i was in work. Told him the symptons. It has just passed the NCT ( Couldnt be anything big the car revs when first starting in the mornings and the emmissions light comes on)

8 hours later I collected it, his apprentice was only there told me they had to finish a minor adjustment on it the next morning and i woudl need to drop it back the next morning. I asked what was wrong with it he told me he didnt know as he had not worked on it. Fair enough
Dropped it over again this morning. I just collected it and the apprentice again was only there. With an ASTRONOMICAL bill. I was expecting 250 euro tops!
Would you expect the mechanic to at least call if the repair was going to be out of the ordinary? The apprentice said " Sure you sent it in to be repaired didnt ya or just a quote on a repair"
If i knew it wasnt going to cost me a fortune i would of quoted around i trusted the guy using him 4 years

I assumed, ok if its Major he will call me.

did you get an itemised bill, and how much was total, seeing it had passed nct, you would not expect to have to fork out big time, our mechanic always consult with us on the phone before going ahead with repairs, that way there are no surprises

Nissan doctor

In my view, no work should ever be done on a car without the customers knowalage and approval of the job and price.



Having said that, you say you were expecting a bill of around €250. Why would you be expecting any bill if you only left it to be looked at? I wonder is it more likely that you asked him to repair the problem based on your diagnosis that it "Couldnt be anything big"??

Thoie

For my most recent service, we had agreed a price beforehand. I got a call during the morning to say that they recommended an additional piece of work for about €50, and also I had a bulb gone. The lady on the phone said she'd already told them to go ahead with the bulb (which is reasonable IMO), but phoned when the other piece was going to be so much extra. I'd wouldn't expect from any garage to take liberties with my cash, but don't want them phoning to ask if it's OK to spend 20p on a washer.

When getting repairs for something where a price can't be agreed in advance, I'd let them know that if it's going to cost less than €x just go ahead and fix it, but if it'll be more than that, give me a call so I can think about it.

Delancey

Ach , who gives a fiddlers - the OP certainly doesn't seem to given the paucity of information in his post.

Mr Benevolent

I bet it was a head gasket or something and the OP just pulled a figure out of thin air.

Gary ITR

Nissan doctor wrote: »

In my view, no work should ever be done on a car without the customers knowalage and approval of the job and price.



Having said that, you say you were expecting a bill of around €250. Why would you be expecting any bill if you only left it to be looked at? I wonder is it more likely that you asked him to repair the problem based on your diagnosis that it "Couldnt be anything big"??

This +1

Also LOL @ just passing the NCT and nothing major being wrong

Stinicker

Onkle wrote: »

This +1

Also LOL @ just passing the NCT and nothing major being wrong

The ashtray might have been in good condition

tweedledee

HHHHHmmmmm!!!! If you honestly didnt give the go-ahead for the repairs 100% case will go in yer favour.Maybe 5 years ago this might have rolled but not anymore,fight it,you will win,if you are being 100% honest.The courts are very aware of traders trying to make a buck in these "hard" times.

johnos1984

Well going on the wealth of information supplied by the OP I'd say YES

I hope that helps

BeardyGit

I just don't get this crappy attitude towards mechanics. You'd swear it was a dirty word around these parts and why?

This is like complaining about a dentist for charging €150 for an extraction saying you'd rather have put up with the pain if you knew it'd cost more than €100. If it needed doing, it needed doing.

Did he overcharge you? What was the work done and parts supplied, and for what car. Give us that and we'll see whether or not you just had a typically expensive job done, or did he take the pish with the price. If he didn't overcharge you and you left it in with him to be repaired, what's the basis for the complaint? That he didn't call you? :rolleyes: It's a car repair, not a date.

What car, what year, what model?
What fault?
What cost to repair?
Genuine parts or pattern?
Warranty on work?

Now, tell the truth - You made an assumption, based on amateur (if any) experience, and didn't even ask him to ring you with a price before he did anything, didn't you? You dropped it in and just asked him to 'have a look at it' for you, didn't you? And that's somehow his fault?

Look, the apprentice told you he didn't work on it. If it was a simple enough job, he would have. If he didn't touch it, it was likely something that needed qualification and experience. Or maybe the apprentice was doing a filthy pig of a job while the mechanic sat on his arse picking through fault codes and isolating the cause. But we don't know that because you're just whinging really.

Here it is - Just because the guy won't spend his time diagnosing the fault, which can take hours, before giving you the option of saying "Nah, I'll leave it as it is for now" and then arguing when he charges you diags time or goes out of pocket for it himself, doesn't make him a crook. Just because you assumed it wouldn't cost you much, but now it has, doesn't make him a crook. Just because you've used him for 4 years and it hasn't cost you much (obviously), doesn't mean every job will be cheap/affordable, and doesn't make him a crook.

I have to say, the attitude stinks towards someone who's looked after you and you've trusted the last 4 years. All that's changed now is that you've ended up paying more than you thought you would and that notion of what it would cost you was based on what experience and knowledge? A Haynes manual and some experts on the gee-whizz-net?

EPM

I'm closing this. The OP hasn't replied with any additional information and nobody is in a position to make a fully informed comment.

OP, if you want this re-opened PM me.

EPM

I'm re-opening this following a request from the OP. Before commenting allow the OP time to clarify what work was exactly done.

ronan45

Sorry i should have put more details into the first post so anyways here is the facts

Opel Astra 2003
Emmisions Signal came up on the dash board. The car chugged a bit in the mornings for about 30 secons then it was fine for the rest of the day.
I calmed down now i thought it was a bit OTT

Parts
Thermostat 78.50
02 Sensor 108.50
MAF Sensor 145.00
Coolent 25.00

Labour 295

Parts 357
labour 295
Vat @ 13.5% 88.02

Grand total 740 Euro


I thought it was a bit much. I asked why the labour was 300 euro he said he had to rectify the fault with the emissions which takes time and also wrote on the bill "Reset parameters and clear faults"


Its all good The car is working well the problem is solved but in future i will ask to get a price before i get work done.

_Kaiser_

This is why I go north these days..

The last time I had my Passat looked at down here (for what I'd been advised was a warranty job by another VW main dealer), I got a call late in the afternoon looking for nearly €200 off me for work they'd gone ahead and done, and they were refusing to give me back the car till I paid it!

It took a call to the MD of the dealer in question (also a main VW dealer I might add) who was in the UK for the day before I got it sorted out (after which I only paid for the replacement car rental) but it was enough to ensure I NEVER went back again.

It wasn't even so much because of the amount (which I didn't easily have on me that day anyway - I love how these garages just assume you can just make these figures "appear") but because they didn't bother to call me first before they did anything!

Plus they were significantly more expensive for the same work than another VW dealer across the border and I find the latter a lot nicer, more accomodating and generally more professional to deal with anyway.

spiggotpaddy

ronan45 wrote: »

Sorry i should have put more details into the first post so anyways here is the facts

Opel Astra 2003
Emmisions Signal came up on the dash board. The car chugged a bit in the mornings for about 30 secons then it was fine for the rest of the day.
I calmed down now i thought it was a bit OTT

Parts
Thermostat 78.50
02 Sensor 108.50
MAF Sensor 145.00
Coolent 25.00

Labour 295

Parts 357
labour 295
Vat @ 13.5% 88.02

Grand total 740 Euro


I thought it was a bit much. I asked why the labout was 300 euro he said he had to rectify the fault with the emissions which takes time and also wrote on the bill "Reset parameters and clear faults"


Its all good The car is working well the problem is solved but in future i will ask to get a price before i get work done.

kin'ell there pricey parts. 78.50 for a stat. should be a tenner

ronan45

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

kin'ell there pricey parts. 78.50 for a stat. should be a tenner

Oh and he also told me that he looked around and saved me about 20% on the parts. I just thought it odd that all these parts would malfunction all at the one time. The car has only 54K on the clock so its not been driven the arse off.

Nissan doctor

ronan45 wrote: »

Oh and he also told me that he looked around and saved me about 20% on the parts. I just thought it odd that all these parts would malfunction all at the one time. The car has only 54K on the clock so its not been driven the arse off.

If I was to be cynical I'd say he just started replacing all the common things that go on an astra untill it ran properly.....

mark renton

rip off ireland is alive and well

fairly simple solution - get car back and say "I will pay later" (this being a lie), no give car back then ring guards and they get car back - im no solicitor but im sure if you didnt arrange to have the work done then them holding onto your car until payment is made would be illegal

until people stand up in these situations then Rip Off Ireland will remain

jmayo

BeardyGit wrote: »

I just don't get this crappy attitude towards mechanics. You'd swear it was a dirty word around these parts and why?

This is like complaining about a dentist for charging €150 for an extraction saying you'd rather have put up with the pain if you knew it'd cost more than €100. If it needed doing, it needed doing.

Yeah but the dentist usually tells you he thinks the tooth should come out.
And he can also tell you how much it costs.
He just doesn't start yanking the thing out without your permission.

I remember friend dropping Honda Civic with engine down on power into a dealer asking him to check out what could be wrong with it.
He got phone call where he was told it would be some huge amount to fit new parts plus labour on top.
Then when he said he didn't want to do it, he was told he had to because they had stripped it and garage was refusing to put it back together.
Eventually he paid them to put it back together and he got better deal on fixing it elsewhere.

In the case in this thread I think OP was not clear he only wanted them to check what it could be and not to go ahead with the work.

BTW there are stories about how over last couple of years that garages are trying to make up for sales shortfalls by screwing people over services.

Lucifer

Is the Astra a 1.4 or 1.2?

O.A.P

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

kin'ell there pricey parts. 78.50 for a stat. should be a tenner

I have the same type astra (mine is a 1.4) and thats about the right price I'm afraid.:eek: I replaced it a few months ago and thats from a motor factors Opel wanted something over 100 euro.
The housing and thermostat are all one part :mad:

Mister Jingles

Lucifer wrote: »

Is the Astra a 1.4 or 1.2?

Does the astra come in a 1.2 ?

cyrusdvirus

An 8 year old car with only 54k miles?

School run mobile?

Nissan doctor

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Does the astra come in a 1.2 ?

Yup, some early G models had the 1.2 16v from the corsa.

mm_surf

Thermostat 78.50
02 Sensor 108.50
MAF Sensor 145.00
Coolent 25.00

Labour 295

For a start, if the thermostat, O2 sensor & MAF were all dodgy, there'd be a damn sight more trouble than rough running for 30 seconds.

Second, that list looks like a diagnostic reader was connected & then all parts listed changed. Very lazy mechanic work, and something that really pee's me off. Often only treats symptoms, not the root cause of trouble -meaning you cna often have repeat trouble.

Thirdly, the labour looks waaaaaaaaay off. I'm assuming 5 hours @ €59 per hour.

If I was doing the above (not a mechanic, but have got my fingers dirty on occaision), this would be the order:
1. Run car to see fault. Let it come up to temp (20 mins tops)
2. Fiddle about for faults, connect & read diagnostic (30 mins tops)
3. Having decided what to do, pop car on ramp. Lift & drain coolant. (10 mins)
4. Remove Lambda (O2) sensor (assuming it'll be on the bottom of the manifold, just before the cat) (10 minutes of soaking with penetrating fluid, 10 seconds with airgun to remove)
5. Replace lambda sensor. (10 mins)
6. Replace coolant drain plug & drop car (5 mins)
7. Remove thermostat & clean gasket surface of old crap (15 mins)
8. Fit new thermostat & gasket (5 mins)
9. Replace MAF (20 mins if it's really awkward to get at - but usually plug & play)
10. Refill coolant (5 mins)
11. Run car to bring to temp & let air out, top up coolant (30 mins)
12. Take car for a run to make sure all is well (20 mins)

3 hours total, and any apprentice with more than a week's experience could do steps 3 onwards. So by my (admittedly untrained) eye, you got 3 hours of apprentice labour at for the price of 5 hours full whack. Not brutal rip-off I suppose, but certainly well padded. Paid for the tea & custard creams.

Just my 2c.

M.

ronan45

ronan45 wrote: »

...........
Opel Astra 2003
Emmisions Signal came up on the dash board. The car chugged a bit in the mornings for about 30 secons then it was fine for the rest of the day.
I calmed down now i thought it was a bit OTT

Parts
Thermostat 78.50
02 Sensor 108.50
MAF Sensor 145.00
Coolent 25.00

...............

If it ran fine all day the stat wasn't the issue, perhaps the housing was leaking or something so he cahnged it over that.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If I was to be cynical I'd say he just started replacing all the common things that go on an astra untill it ran properly.....

Yep, o2 sensor and MAF sensor along with stat is looney carry on, as above, I reckon if the car was running fine the stat was too.

gatecrash wrote: »

An 8 year old car with only 54k miles?

School run mobile?

The ole lad has a 1999 car with 36K miles on it, he bought it new and I was finished school back then :pac:

ronan45

Its a 1.4 , Yeah mileage is small only 1 lady owner before me hardly left her garage

sean_d

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If I was to be cynical I'd say he just started replacing all the common things that go on an astra untill it ran properly.....

In that case, the OP is lucky he didn't add a coil pack and EGR valve to the list too!

mikedragon32

I'd wonder why you brought it back the following morning as per the apprentice's instructions...

He knew some work was done, but couldn't say what, that's fair enough. But if you only dropped it in for a quote why not then raise that and question why the mechanic did anything at all?

Also, if the repair wasn't finished, why were you allowed to drive the car away?

ronan45

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I'd wonder why you brought it back the following morning as per the apprentice's instructions... ( He said they didnt know what was up with it and were still diagnosing)

He knew some work was done, but couldn't say what, that's fair enough. But if you only dropped it in for a quote why not then raise that and question why the mechanic did anything at all? (at that stage he had had it a full day so I assumed I was being charged anyway as work had commenced)

Also, if the repair wasn't finished, why were you allowed to drive the car away?

I asked the same thing he said the car was fine to drive and to drop it back for some "resets"

ronan45

In any event the cars flying now. In future i will go out of my way to say price before fixing and make it crystal clear if its going to be anything near 1000 euros to gimme a quick bell on the mobile:rolleyes:

Cavehill Red

I think you'd be a mug to pay that price based on what some of the posters have said in this thread, OP.

Totally different area, but I had a row with the bank recently for issuing a payment from my account I hadn't authorised. Bottom line, I got the money back and the bank is out of pocket, for the simple reason that it's a principle of law that you can't spend someone else's money without their express permission.

On that basis, you never authorised 800 quid worth of work, plus it's debatable whether the work done ought to cost that, and it's debatable that the car needed all that work done/parts replaced.

I'd be looking for a chat with the owner of the business face to face seeking a severe haircut on all of that, and if that didn't work out, perhaps a solicitor's letter asking them to prove you authorised that work for that fee might focus their minds a bit.

Lucifer

ronan45 wrote: »

Its a 1.4 , Yeah mileage is small only 1 lady owner before me hardly left her garage

A 2003 Astra 1.4 does not have an air flow meter.

ronan45

Lucifer wrote: »

A 2003 Astra 1.4 does not have an air flow meter.

Hmmm it must be a 1.6 then mate it doesnt actually say on the car just Astra on the back Cheers Lucifer

O.A.P

ronan45 wrote: »

Hmmm it must be a 1.6 then mate it doesnt actually say on the car just Astra on the back Cheers Lucifer

Well how much did it cost to tax it ?

BanjoSpanner

I'm having a running battle at the moment with a very well known main dealer. Won't go into the details but it's shocking bad.

Anyway I feel there is no way the mechanic worth his salt would spend any more than 2 hours on the above list of replacements. I've done each of those jobs myself many times and aside from the thremostat, there is barely a need to use a spanner really.

In one stroke he has replaced anything which potentially could be the issue. Obviously one of them was bound to work, but if he had spent a bit more time diagnosing he could have probably saved you the price of two out of the three parts.

It seems mechanics these days don't want to do anything mechanical any more, only go for the quick and easy fixes. It's disgusting really and nothing less than lazy as someone said.

On your original question, it's a common trick unfortunately to do the work and then tell you what it's costing you. Their security is your car in that you'll have to pay if you want it back. Yeah it's probably illegal but it's rife and there seems to be no appetite with the authorities to do anything about it.

porsche boy

it would appear on the steep side to me and rather underhanded too.
if it's a proper garage then they will be registered with the SIMI, the regulatory body for the motor industry. Forward all information including a copy of the receipt and inform them you had not authorized the repair.
Approach the owner and discuss, on the basis you had not been contacted, the possibility of a partial refund. If he refuses inform him you will bring up the topic and the name of the garage on the Joe Duffy radio show.
It annoys me to know there are garages and mechanics like this giving us all a bad name.


alternatively live and learn.

Lucifer

ronan45 wrote: »

Hmmm it must be a 1.6 then mate it doesnt actually say on the car just Astra on the back Cheers Lucifer

1.6 shouldnt have one either. PM me the reg and I'll tell you what engine and if it has one.