L.A. Noire - another game with hidden anti-religious messages

yawnstretch

I made a thread here a while back warning people about Ubisoft's Assassins Creed 2 which featured a very anti-Christian ending. The sneaky thing is that because the message is revealed at the end it prevents people from sharing it easily.

It seems L.A. noire pulls a similar trick.

I regret buying this game and if I'd known in advance I wouldn't.

How can we avoid games that are so sly? Obviously those responsible for inserting their anti-religious hate messages are relying on spoiler warnings to conceal their intent.

The final mission in Assassins creed 2 is to assassinate the head of the catholic church, the pope. The end of L.A. Noire reveals a husband's gift of a cross to his wife who he abused and murdered. Both games include little scatterings of anti-religious comments and messages during the game.

I don't want to be attacked for my religious beliefs when I buy games.

Coriolanus

How are either of those things an attack on your religious beliefs? What are the other little scatterings, since I presume the two mentioned are the most egregious in your eyes?

There were plenty of pretty bad popes, and I'm pretty sure one or two were assasinated. There are also plenty of pretty bad people who claim piety, up to and including beating their wives while considering themselves catholic no doubt.

None of that should have any impact on your belief, any more than the fact that Stalin was an atheist should have an impact on my non-belief.

Penn

As a huge fan of the Assassin's Creed series, I have to strongly disagree with your opinion on the ending and your perceived anti-religious message. The Pope in question was Rodrigo Borgia, aka Pope Alexander VI, who was one of the most controversial popes in history.

The reason why he was the enemy of the game is due to the large amount of power the Pope held in those days and the region in which the game and following game is set. Not only that, but you don't actually kill the Pope in the game, which is significant, because as an Assassin, he is the one enemy which you don't actually kill. This is also historically accurate as the real Pope died a few years after the setting of the game.

I can't speak for LA Noire as I haven't finished it, but as I said, Pope Alexander VI was the antagonist due to the power he held, and the power his son Cesare held afterwards. But even then, Christianity is never mentioned in a negative way. In fact, the protagonists of the game are generally religious, showing respect to those who they kill.

yawnstretch

I'm on my phone right now so won't go into massive detail.

In L.A. Noire, your very first suspect picks a fight with two cops. There is a crucifix on his wall - I've been playing games for years and have an eye for significant detail.

Your second suspect is verbally taunted for being Jewish. At this point I got suspicious as in the car on the way to the second crime one of the characters said that talking about religion was not a good idea (religion and politics specifically but these three things happened in a very short amount of time at the start of the game). This represents an unecessary anti-religious sentiment in my opinion.

I decided to google the end of the game as I did when I had suspicions about assassins creed. If you don't think beating someone to within an inch of their life (ie the pope) is offensive to Catholics then you must have very thick skin.

partyatmygaff

yawnstretch wrote: »

If you don't think beating someone to within an inch of their life (ie the pope) is offensive to Catholics then you must have very thick skin.

It's just a game and the "Pope" in question is Alexander VI. To be honest, if I was a Catholic I wouldn't even consider a man like him being worth getting offended for.

Fbjm

yawnstretch wrote: »

I'm on my phone right now so won't go into massive detail.

In L.A. Noire, your very first suspect picks a fight with two cops. There is a crucifix on his wall - I've been playing games for years and have an eye for significant detail.

Your second suspect is verbally taunted for being Jewish. At this point I got suspicious as in the car on the way to the second crime one of the characters said that talking about religion was not a good idea (religion and politics specifically but these three things happened in a very short amount of time at the start of the game). This represents an unecessary anti-religious sentiment in my opinion.

I decided to google the end of the game as I did when I had suspicions about assassins creed. If you don't think beating someone to within an inch of their life (ie the pope) is offensive to Catholics then you must have very thick skin.

I don't usually post on here but what the hell. The pope in assassins creed symbolised all that was wrong with the catholic church back then, one of many examples being blatant nepotism. He was like George w bush to America only times ten.

He wasn't targeted because he was a religious figure. He was targeted because, in the game and real life at the time, he was dictator of over half the world.

The sentiment wasn't "he's a pope, let's make killing him the final mission to turn gamers' subconscious minds against religion". It was "he was a cruel dictator of the time, let's make beating him the final mission".

Read a goddamn history book.

Fanny Cradock

I can't comment on L.A. Noire but the world of Assassins Creed was most certainly atheistic. It was blatantly obvious in the first game (don't know about the others). However, I didn't see it as an attack on religion per say. It merely presented an alternative fictional story to the actual facts.

If anybody is swayed by the comic book revisionist history and the laughable self-refuting philosophy then I'm not sure they are interested truth. This said, who is to say what push and pull effects all these inputs have on the Zeitgeist.

Penn

yawnstretch wrote: »

I'm on my phone right now so won't go into massive detail.

In L.A. Noire, your very first suspect picks a fight with two cops. There is a crucifix on his wall - I've been playing games for years and have an eye for significant detail.

Your second suspect is verbally taunted for being Jewish. At this point I got suspicious as in the car on the way to the second crime one of the characters said that talking about religion was not a good idea (religion and politics specifically but these three things happened in a very short amount of time at the start of the game). This represents an unecessary anti-religious sentiment in my opinion.

I decided to google the end of the game as I did when I had suspicions about assassins creed. If you don't think beating someone to within an inch of their life (ie the pope) is offensive to Catholics then you must have very thick skin.

There's a difference between beating a Catholic to within an inch of their life, and beating someone to within an inch of their life because they are Catholic. The latter would be hugely offensive. However, in the game, the Pope (aka Rodrigo Borgia) organised the death of Ezio's (the playable character's) father, older brother and younger brother, about 15 years before he became the Pope. Ezio's fight with the Pope did not stem from religious hatred, but for personal reasons (organising the murder of most of his family).

Have you actually played the game? Because if all you did was google the ending, then I find your argument of anti-religious messages being placed in this game to be unsubstantiated and misinformed.

richymcdermott

yawnstretch wrote: »

I made a thread here a while back warning people about Ubisoft's Assassins Creed 2 which featured a very anti-Christian ending. The sneaky thing is that because the message is revealed at the end it prevents people from sharing it easily.

It seems L.A. noire pulls a similar trick.

I regret buying this game and if I'd known in advance I wouldn't.

How can we avoid games that are so sly? Obviously those responsible for inserting their anti-religious hate messages are relying on spoiler warnings to conceal their intent.

The final mission in Assassins creed 2 is to assassinate the head of the catholic church, the pope. The end of L.A. Noire reveals a husband's gift of a cross to his wife who he abused and murdered. Both games include little scatterings of anti-religious comments and messages during the game.

I don't want to be attacked for my religious beliefs when I buy games.

I believe in god myself and have played both assassin creed and la noire and not once i was offended and i dont ever ! Dont take it to heart man

Aldebaran

Having played through the entirety of LA Noire, I can honestly say I did not see a single anti-religion sentiment being expressed by the game. I am struggling to remember if religion was even featured in the game in any sort of major way. I think you are really going out of your way to be offended here.

Owen

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I can't comment on L.A. Noire but the world of Assassins Creed was most certainly atheistic.

Pass life regression is Athiestic now? It may be anti-Christian, but there's certain religions and schools of spirituality who would argue your point.

Penn

yawnstretch wrote: »

Both games include little scatterings of anti-religious comments and messages during the game.

I don't want to be attacked for my religious beliefs when I buy games.

Also, could you give examples of some of the anti-religious comments and messages in Assassins Creed 2? Or perhaps a link to your previous thread? Its late now, so I'll search for it in the morning anyway

Fanny Cradock

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Pass life regression is Athiestic now? It may be anti-Christian, but there's certain religions and schools of spirituality who would argue your point.

I never mentioned anything about past life regression. I was referring to the first two minutes of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR8jiPybqB0&feature=related

Penn

Here's your previous thread about Assassin's Creed 2:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63570825

In this thread, you have also given no reasons why this game has anti-religious messages other than killing the Pope, which again, is not anti-religion, moreso anti-"that guy killed 3/5 of my family"

Fbjm

Does yawnstetch even read our replies? I didn't see him comment in this thread or the one linked above, apart from his opening.

Fanny Cradock

See post 4.

Owen

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about past life regression. I was referring to the first two minutes of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR8jiPybqB0&feature=related

Nope, your comment was

the world of Assassins Creed was most certainly atheistic

That to me tars the whole game with a narrow viewpoint. The game's creators go to a lot of trouble at the start of each load to also illustrate that the game was developed by a team of multi demoninational and multi faith people too to disuade this sort of labelling nonsense.

Fanny Cradock

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Nope, your comment was

"Nope" what? You didn't engage with the evidence I produced. "Nope" is not an adequate response. If you can provide counter evidence that trumps mine then I'll recant of the egregious opinion that you seem to think I've put forth.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

That to me tars the whole game with a narrow viewpoint.

What does that mean? I stated that the world of AC was atheistic. I wasn't criticising the game or atheism for this. Neither was I using the word atheism as a curse word. You are clearly itching for a fight. Still, I'm encouraged that you find atheism to be a narrow viewpoint.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The game's creators go to a lot of trouble at the start of each load to also illustrate that the game was developed by a team of multi demoninational and multi faith people too to disuade this sort of labelling nonsense.

Good for them. What has that got to do with the story of the game?

Owen

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

What does that mean? I stated that the world of AC was atheistic. I wasn't criticising the game or atheism for this. Neither was I using the word atheism as a curse word. You are clearly itching for a fight.

'Clearly itching for a fight' - are you serious? I'm having a debate with you and because I call you on something you said, you want to escalate it into a fight?

Anyway - back to the calm world of me cause it's Tuesday and far too early in the week to get itching for things other than Friday, saying 'the world of AC is clearly athiestic' is indeed a criticism of the game. It's also very wrong. The basic fundamental of the world of AC is one of past life regression - it's the entire sub-plot. Even the Garden of Eden is represented at one point in a finishing sequence.

yawnstretch

This thread is about L.A. Noire primarily but when I played through Assassins creed 2 there were enough negative comments that I felt were intentionally critical of Catholicism that I regretted buying the game.

I'm a hardcore gamer and I've played the likes of the doom series etc. which make no bones about what you are getting yourself in for.

The games I've mentioned in this thread upset me because of their insidious method of criticizing Catholicism. I've tried to look up the script for Assassins creed 2 to find some examples of what I'm talking about but I can only find detailed scripts of Assassins creed 1 and gameplay walkthroughs of Assassins creed 2. The letters and dialogues don't seem to be available and it's a while since I've played it.

I love games and Im quite forgiving of many nasty things so I can continue to enjoy my hobby but I felt these games deliberately tried to obfuscate their anti-religious sentiment.

I've given examples already - here's the only other one I experienced in the 25 minutes I played L.A. Noire. The police chief makes some negatively toned religious statements the very first time you meet him in the game. Play it from the start yourself to see this it's only a few minutes in and side by side with the other observations I made.

I played probably about 6 hours of Assassins creed 2 before I noticed a trend and googled and found out about the ending which is why I didn't play more. Normally I'm extremely spoiler-phobic but I'm glad I followed through on my good feeling.

The nature of the anti-religious sentiment in AC2 is as following:
Quick comments by characters (either in cut-scene dialogue or letters) associating church leaders / bishops with corruption. The church is not painted in a positive light at all in the game.

There are also many offensive distortions of the bible included in the game. I managed to find this one on gamefaqs but there are more:

"And Satan Said Unto Cain: Swear Unto Me By Thy Throat, And If Thou Tell It
Thou Shalt Die

And All These Things Were Done In Secret

And Cain Said: Truly I Am Mahan, the Master of This Great Secret.

Wherefore Cain Was Called Master Mahan, and He Glorified In His Wickedness" - from one of the puzzles in the game.

There are also references to rape and incest in AC2 which the ESRB made a nice summary of:

The game contains strong sexual overtones. During one "seduction mini-game," players are able to press buttons to kiss a woman and remove her dress; with the woman's back facing the camera, the two characters lower to bed and blow out a candle. Some scenes take place inside brothels, though no nudity or sexual acts are depicted. The dialogue contains the following sexual references: "So the whip or the paddle today?" and "Does your wife know about your page-boy fantasies, Captain?"

Character backstories, narrated through still-frame vignettes, explain how villains and historical figures achieved their notoriety; some biographies include references to adultery, sodomy, prostitution, and rape (e.g., "Caterina was captured and sent to Rodrigo Borgia . . . who kept her imprisoned for a year and is rumored to have raped her alongside his son."). One cutscene depicts a man and a woman wearing translucent, flesh-toned bodysuits as they flee from danger.The digitized lighting effects, the glow from their futuristic suits, obscure most of the details, though outlines of breasts and buttocks are partially discernable (i.e., not definitively nudity).

Consumers may also wish to know that the game contains strong profanity, both in English and Italian (e.g., "f**k," "sh*t," c*zzo," and "m*rda"); the most explicit instance occurs when a man frantically describes a "vision"—"I'm at the opera . . . the soprano is so beautiful . . . I'm in bed with her, she cries as I f**k her."

Unfortunately the ESRB tends to focus on violence and sex rather than religion and I don't have time to pick through every snide comment in the game.

I've noticed that different people have widely varying tolerances for offensive content. I myself can play through games that others might find disturbing but some stuff upsets me and I don't think I'm in the wrong for sharing this in case others in this forum might feel the same way.

Personally I found bio-shock's "little sister" harvesting offensive but I know others found it amusing. I like chainsawing the odd locust in gears of war but I know it's not for everyone.

These two games contain jaundiced and manipulative views on something I hold precious. If I'd known in advance I would not have bought them.

Fanny Cradock

PaintDoctor wrote: »

'Clearly itching for a fight' - are you serious? I'm having a debate with you and because I call you on something you said, you want to escalate it into a fight?

I wouldn't say it if I wasn't serious.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Anyway - back to the calm world of me cause it's Tuesday and far too early in the week to get itching for things other than Friday, saying 'the world of AC is clearly athiestic' is indeed a criticism of the game. It's also very wrong. The basic fundamental of the world of AC is one of past life regression - it's the entire sub-plot. Even the Garden of Eden is represented at one point in a finishing sequence.

Past life regression in the game has nothing to do with theism, deism, polly theism, atheism, agnosticism, igtheism or whatever else. It makes no comment about God or gods. Indeed, if memory serves correctly the sci-fi phenomena of past life regression in the game was explained purely on naturalistic grounds, which says nothing about God(s) either way.

Watch the link I provided to in-game footage. Argue against that.

Owen

Reincarnation aka past life regression is a tenet of many religions. How can a game's world be atheistic if it references this. How can the world of the game also be atheistic if it shows the Garden of Eden?

Have you played the game FC? Most importantly - have you finished the game and seen the sequences about Eden?

Aldebaran

yawnstretch wrote: »

LA Noire spoiler:

The end of L.A. Noire reveals a husband's gift of a cross to his wife who he abused and murdered.

Can you expand on this one a bit, I don't remember this part of the ending.

yawnstretch

Aldebaran wrote: »

Can you expand on this one a bit, I don't remember this part of the ending.

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/22/bible-verse-in-l-a-noire/

Fanny Cradock

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Reincarnation aka past life regression is a tenet of many religions. How can a game's world be atheistic if it references this. How can the world of the game also be atheistic if it shows the Garden of Eden?

They use naturalistic explanations to explain memories from past lives. It says nothing about the supernatural.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

How can the world of the game also be atheistic if it shows the Garden of Eden?

Do you actually need me to explain that to you? From what I know of the progression in the story in the game, Eden is a super advanced city of "The First Civilization". It is not the same as the Garden of Eden found in Genesis. You seem to think that using the same name means something.

Again, watch the video footage I showed you and note what it says about the great monotheistic religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam), paganism and gods in general.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Have you played the game FC? Most importantly - have you finished the game and seen the sequences about Eden?

I've played the first one. Please read my first post for clarification.

Aldebaran

yawnstretch wrote: »

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/22/bible-verse-in-l-a-noire/

Two things to note about that:

1. Thats not the end of the game, nowhere near it.
2. The husband didn't murder her.

yawnstretch

Aldebaran wrote: »

Two things to note about that:

1. Thats not the end of the game, nowhere near it.
2. The husband didn't murder her.

From the same page "It plays into the game that at least for a time, it seems there are a string of murders of men killing their wives for not being subservient." So you're right and she was murdered and he was only abusive however the negative associations with religion remain. The point I'm trying to make is that this negative sentiment is sneakily hidden but it is there.

Aldebaran

yawnstretch wrote: »

From the same page "It plays into the game that at least for a time, it seems there are a string of murders of men killing their wives for not being subservient." So you're right and she was murdered and he was only abusive however the negative associations with religion remain. The point I'm trying to make is that this negative sentiment is sneakily hidden but it is there.

You should probably play the game. None of the husbands are involved in the murders at all.

But, anyway, I don't understand how you can claim that LA Noire is anti-religious. Some of the characters speak about God, many don't, and there is some religious imagery, like the cross that you mentioned, but it does not feature heavily at all and the game does not take any sort of pro-religion or anti-religion stance.

You seem annoyed that it portrayed a religious character as abusive; a character who barely features in the game at all. This does not mean the makers of the game are saying anything negative about religion.

Similarly, one of your police partners in the game turns out to be corrupt, does this mean the makers of the game are claiming all cops are corrupt? No, it doesn't.

Asry

ah sure it's just being real to life, not attacking you personally. Get over it.

Although I was a little iffy about Assassin's Creed and all that but like. OK. It's a game....

AhSureTisGrand

Had you been playing Hello Kitty I might have some sympathy for you

Penn

yawnstretch wrote: »

This thread is about L.A. Noire primarily but when I played through Assassins creed 2 there were enough negative comments that I felt were intentionally critical of Catholicism that I regretted buying the game.

I'm a hardcore gamer and I've played the likes of the doom series etc. which make no bones about what you are getting yourself in for.

The games I've mentioned in this thread upset me because of their insidious method of criticizing Catholicism. I've tried to look up the script for Assassins creed 2 to find some examples of what I'm talking about but I can only find detailed scripts of Assassins creed 1 and gameplay walkthroughs of Assassins creed 2. The letters and dialogues don't seem to be available and it's a while since I've played it.

I love games and Im quite forgiving of many nasty things so I can continue to enjoy my hobby but I felt these games deliberately tried to obfuscate their anti-religious sentiment.

I've given examples already - here's the only other one I experienced in the 25 minutes I played L.A. Noire. The police chief makes some negatively toned religious statements the very first time you meet him in the game. Play it from the start yourself to see this it's only a few minutes in and side by side with the other observations I made.

I played probably about 6 hours of Assassins creed 2 before I noticed a trend and googled and found out about the ending which is why I didn't play more. Normally I'm extremely spoiler-phobic but I'm glad I followed through on my good feeling.

The nature of the anti-religious sentiment in AC2 is as following:
Quick comments by characters (either in cut-scene dialogue or letters) associating church leaders / bishops with corruption. The church is not painted in a positive light at all in the game.

There are also many offensive distortions of the bible included in the game. I managed to find this one on gamefaqs but there are more:

"And Satan Said Unto Cain: Swear Unto Me By Thy Throat, And If Thou Tell It
Thou Shalt Die

And All These Things Were Done In Secret

And Cain Said: Truly I Am Mahan, the Master of This Great Secret.

Wherefore Cain Was Called Master Mahan, and He Glorified In His Wickedness" - from one of the puzzles in the game.

There are also references to rape and incest in AC2 which the ESRB made a nice summary of:

The game contains strong sexual overtones. During one "seduction mini-game," players are able to press buttons to kiss a woman and remove her dress; with the woman's back facing the camera, the two characters lower to bed and blow out a candle. Some scenes take place inside brothels, though no nudity or sexual acts are depicted. The dialogue contains the following sexual references: "So the whip or the paddle today?" and "Does your wife know about your page-boy fantasies, Captain?"

Character backstories, narrated through still-frame vignettes, explain how villains and historical figures achieved their notoriety; some biographies include references to adultery, sodomy, prostitution, and rape (e.g., "Caterina was captured and sent to Rodrigo Borgia . . . who kept her imprisoned for a year and is rumored to have raped her alongside his son."). One cutscene depicts a man and a woman wearing translucent, flesh-toned bodysuits as they flee from danger.The digitized lighting effects, the glow from their futuristic suits, obscure most of the details, though outlines of breasts and buttocks are partially discernable (i.e., not definitively nudity).

Consumers may also wish to know that the game contains strong profanity, both in English and Italian (e.g., "f**k," "sh*t," c*zzo," and "m*rda"); the most explicit instance occurs when a man frantically describes a "vision"—"I'm at the opera . . . the soprano is so beautiful . . . I'm in bed with her, she cries as I f**k her."

Unfortunately the ESRB tends to focus on violence and sex rather than religion and I don't have time to pick through every snide comment in the game.

I've noticed that different people have widely varying tolerances for offensive content. I myself can play through games that others might find disturbing but some stuff upsets me and I don't think I'm in the wrong for sharing this in case others in this forum might feel the same way.

Personally I found bio-shock's "little sister" harvesting offensive but I know others found it amusing. I like chainsawing the odd locust in gears of war but I know it's not for everyone.

These two games contain jaundiced and manipulative views on something I hold precious. If I'd known in advance I would not have bought them.

The above is a passage from the Book of Moses, Pearl of Great Price, which is scripture in the Church of Latter Day Saints.

As for associating church leaders with corruption; Yes. It does. A few church leaders in those days were corrupt. I fail to see what any of this has to do with being anti-religion though. This game was set over 500 years ago. I fail to see how the fictional depiction of any religious organisation over half a century ago is attempting to spread anti-religious messages in today's culture. I really think you're reading far too much into this.

Turtwig

Why did I have to read the L.A Noire themed spoilers?

yawnstretch

Thanks for all the replies.

I prefer to see certain subjects handled with sensitivity - because they are sensitive topics!

It may be a matter of carelessness rather than intent so I may investigate further if I have the time.

However, as I was offended and I believe I am not so unique in my beliefs I still think this thread serves a purpose to advise other sensitive souls

Morbert

yawnstretch wrote: »

I don't want to be attacked for my religious beliefs when I buy games.

You are not being attacked for your religious beliefs when you buy games.

Fanny Cradock

Morbert wrote: »

You are not being attacked for your religious beliefs when you buy games.

While I agree with you in the context of the examples discussed, do you think it is possible to have your beliefs "attacked" in a game?

Turtwig

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

While I agree with you in the context of the examples discussed, do you think it is possible to have your beliefs "attacked" in a game?

Oh yeah definitely a game could easily give the impression it is something that it isn't.

smokingman

Is it just me or does the OP lack any historical knowledge of the catholic church whatsoever? It's common knowledge that it was corrupt back then when the game was set (and some would say it still is but I won't go there).

All the references to rape/murder/etc in the game would be a very pale comparison to what actually went on back then and if anything, the game paints a very mild version of history.

Also, why are you buying 18 cert games when you obviously haven't got the maturity to not be offended by a bunch of pixels?

Morbert

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

While I agree with you in the context of the examples discussed, do you think it is possible to have your beliefs "attacked" in a game?

Yes. But what I disagree with is the idea that "My religious beliefs were attacked." and "I was attacked for my religious beliefs beliefs." are somehow equivalent.

smokingman

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

While I agree with you in the context of the examples discussed, do you think it is possible to have your beliefs "attacked" in a game?

My belief that turtles lived a very long time was destroyed after playing Mario for the first time....should we ban Mario games?

Seriously, the OP is clutching at persecution straws here.

Mindkiller

I'll admit to not reading most of the replies ITT, but I'd advice OP wikipedia Alexander VI. Even to devout catholics he is considered to be a lecherous fool. One of the main contributing factors to the reformation, and the Catholic counter-reformation.

This is a man who reputedly hired a load of prostitutes and had a contest to see who could ejaculate the most while having sex with them. I don't see how such a Pope could be considered Christian-like

I think he was also the one who really popularised the sale of indulgences, but my history might be a bit rusty


I'm surprised that you're not aware of it tbh. Between Ac2 and The Borgias TV series, I'd have though everyone would have known by now that Rodrigo Borgia was basically a gangster. And they say that the reality was far worse than the fiction in both the games and series

Fanny Cradock

smokingman wrote: »

Also, why are you buying 18 cert games when you obviously haven't got the maturity to not be offended by a bunch of pixels?

That's a nonsense, though. While I don't agree with the OP, he clearly isn't being offended by a bunch of pixels. That actually misrepresents his gripe. He is offended by the information conveyed by the medium of a computer game.

Incidentally, I agree with you that AC presents a version of history. I just hope that people realise that AC plays fast and loose with history.

Fanny Cradock

smokingman wrote: »

My belief that turtles lived a very long time was destroyed after playing Mario for the first time....should we ban Mario games?

I've no idea what yo are getting at. Also, I never suggested that any game should be banned. Please try not to project.

Morbert wrote: »

Yes. But what I disagree with is the idea that "My religious beliefs were attacked." and "I was attacked for my religious beliefs beliefs." are somehow equivalent.

Yes. I completely agree.

smokingman

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That's a nonsense, though. While I don't agree with the OP, he clearly isn't being offended by a bunch of pixels. That actually misrepresents his gripe. He is offended by the information conveyed by the medium of a computer game.

Maybe I should have refined that to "a work of fiction" instead of pixels.
It strikes me that the OP would probably be offended by the "Spanish Inquisition" Monty Python sketch and I find it incredulous in this day and age that someone could be offended by a plot in a video game. Sure, someone can be offended by blood, gore and guts and their "realistic" representations etc but a plot? Really?!

Asry

smokingman wrote: »

Sure, someone can be offended by blood, gore and guts and their "realistic" representations etc but a plot? Really?!

I'm really not agreeing with the majority of what the OP is saying here, but I would like to add that I, too, felt a bit weird about

the Pope-killing part of Assassin's Creed2. That being said, he really does sound like someone from a comic-book rather than an actual spiritual leader,

so in fairness I suppose on a realistic level, it's grand. If there is indeed a level in which discussing feeling attacked by computer games can be described as realistic.

Perhaps the OP is referring to the idea of murdering a pope in general rather than Alexander in particular? Is it the symbolism?

Penn

Asry wrote: »

I'm really not agreeing with the majority of what the OP is saying here, but I would like to add that I, too, felt a bit weird about

the Pope-killing part of Assassin's Creed2. That being said, he really does sound like someone from a comic-book rather than an actual spiritual leader,

so in fairness I suppose on a realistic level, it's grand. If there is indeed a level in which discussing feeling attacked by computer games can be described as realistic.

Perhaps the OP is referring to the idea of murdering a pope in general rather than Alexander in particular? Is it the symbolism?

But even then,

a) The guy killed half your family before he was Pope, and b) You don't kill him. You let him live.

Which in my opinion makes this whole thing null and void. As well as that, it's a very 'fantasy' orientated game combining historical fact with sci-fi and magic.

prinz

*Hides copy of Mario Puzo's The Family in case the OP reads the back cover and spontaneously combusts* :pac:

Helix

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I just hope that people realise that AC plays fast and loose with history.

sure it says that very thing as an unskippable screen at the start of the game

MitchKoobski

Not christian, but passing through and have played through both games completely. Just to clear it up a bit..

1. Assassin's Creed 2. Throughout the game your main enemy is Roderigo Borgia, who is going around corrupting churches and politicians everywhere by murdering anyone who doesn't agree with him. You are out to stop him. By the end of the game you still haven't been able to get to him, but in the meantime he had killed and weasled his way into becoming pope.

You fight him, defeat him, but don't kill him. Want proof? Look up a synopsis for the game that came after it, Assassin's Creed Botherhood. His son is the new antagonist, and Roderigo is still alive as the pope.

2. L.A. Noire. I don't remember a single religious thing about this game. If anything it avoids it as not to cause offence. I actually missed the piece of evidence in the game that has the above passge as well.

The closest thing I could think of is that you chase a guy through old catacombs underneath a church at one point when you find out he's been hiding there.

I think there was one small side-mission as well about a crazy guy shooting people saying he was cleansing the world for god. One of the characters makes a comment that it isn't god's work and to leave people to their religious beliefs. There's a couple of crosses on walls but the game is set in the 1950's, and thats what society was like back then. A lot more people believed in christianity.

You can find the endings on Youtube, or find a synopsis on Wikipedia. Speaks for itself.

MitchKoobski

AND, all of the Assassin's Creed games have this warning pop up whenever you turn the game on.

"Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.”

padraig91

Jeez if you are going to have a hernia that your religion was mentioned in the game then dont play the game (your religion was hardly "attacked") also assassins creed has a disclaimer at the start to stop people like you moaning about it. But i assume you as all christian only saw what you wanted to see and nothing else. also if you are going to get offended like that then u should prob just sit in a box and not communicate with the world

partyatmygaff

padraig91 wrote: »

But i assume you as all christian only saw what you wanted to see and nothing else. also if you are going to get offended like that then u should prob just sit in a box and not communicate with the world

What a load of rubbish. This is not the forum for making dodgy generalisations.