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News Of The World in bother again..

  • 04-07-2011 5:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭


    This may be posted, feel free to lock if it has :o
    This is despicable.
    The News of the World illegally targeted the missing schoolgirl Milly Dowler and her family in March 2002, interfering with police inquiries into her disappearance, an investigation by the Guardian has established.

    Scotland Yard is investigating the episode, which is likely to put new pressure on the-then editor of the paper, Rebekah Brooks, now Rupert Murdoch's chief executive in the UK; and the- then deputy editor, Andy Coulson, who resigned in January as the prime minister's media adviser.

    The Dowlers' family lawyer this afternoon issued a statement in which he described the News of the World's activities as "heinous" and "despicable". Milly Dowler disappeared at the age of 13 on her way home in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey on 21 March 2002.

    Detectives from Scotland Yard's new inquiry into the phone hacking, Operation Weeting, are believed to have found evidence of the targeting of the Dowlers in a collection of 11,000 pages of notes kept by Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator jailed for phone hacking on behalf of the News of the World.

    In the last four weeks the Met officers have approached Surrey police and taken formal statements from some of those involved in the original inquiry, who were concerned about how News of the World journalists intercepted – and deleted – the voicemail messages of Milly Dowler.

    The messages were deleted by journalists in the first few days after Milly's disappearance in order to free up space for more messages. As a result friends and relatives of Milly concluded wrongly that she might still be alive. Police feared evidence may have been destroyed.

    The Guardian investigation has shown that, within a very short time of Milly vanishing, News of the World journalists reacted by engaging in what was then standard practice in their newsroom: they hired private investigators to get them a story.

    Their first step was simple, albeit illegal. Paperwork seen by the Guardian reveals that they paid a Hampshire private investigator, Steve Whittamore, to obtain home addresses and, where necessary, ex-directory phone numbers for any families called Dowler in the Walton area. The three addresses that Whittamore found could be obtained lawfully, using the electoral register. The two ex-directory numbers, however, were "blagged" illegally from British Telecom's confidential records by one of Whittamore's associates, John Gunning, who works from a base in Wiltshire. One of the ex-directory numbers was attributed by Whittamore to Milly's family home.

    Then, with the help of its own full-time private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire, the News of the World started illegally intercepting mobile phone messages. Scotland Yard is now investigating evidence that the paper hacked directly into the voicemail of the missing girl's own phone. As her friends and parents called and left messages imploring Milly to get in touch with them, the News of the World was listening and recording their every private word.

    But the journalists at the News of the World then encountered a problem. Milly's voicemail box filled up and would accept no more messages. Apparently thirsty for more information from more voicemails, the News of the World intervened – and deleted the messages that had been left in the first few days after her disappearance. According to one source, this had a devastating effect: when her friends and family called again and discovered that her voicemail had been cleared, they concluded that this must have been done by Milly herself and, therefore, that she must still be alive. But she was not. The interference created false hope and extra agony for those who were misled by it.

    The Dowler family then granted an exclusive interview to the News of the World in which they talked about their hope, quite unaware that it had been falsely kindled by the newspaper's own intervention. Sally Dowler told the paper: "If Milly walked through the door, I don't think we'd be able to speak. We'd just weep tears of joy and give her a great big hug."

    The deletion of the messages also caused difficulties for the police. It confused the picture at a time when they had few real leads to pursue. It also potentially destroyed valuable evidence.

    According to one senior source familiar with the Surrey police investigation: "It can happen with abduction murders that the perpetrator will leave messages, asking the missing person to get in touch, as part of their efforts at concealment. We need those messages as evidence. Anybody who destroys that evidence is seriously interfering with the course of a police investigation."

    The paper made little effort to conceal the hacking from its readers. On 14 April 2002, it published a story about a woman allegedly pretending to be Milly Dowler who had applied for a job with a recruitment agency: "It is thought the hoaxer even gave the agency Milly's real mobile number … The agency used the number to contact Milly when a job vacancy arose and left a message on her voicemail … It was on March 27, six days after Milly went missing, that the employment agency appears to have phoned her mobile."

    The newspaper also made no effort to conceal its activity from Surrey police. After it had hacked the message from the recruitment agency on Milly's phone, the paper informed police about it. It was Surrey detectives who established that the call was not intended for Milly Dowler. At the time, Surrey police suspected that phones belonging to detectives and to Milly's parents also were being targeted.

    One of those who was involved in the original inquiry said: "We'd arrange landline calls. We didn't trust our mobiles."

    However, they took no action against the News of the World, partly because their main focus was to find the missing schoolgirl and partly because this was only one example of tabloid misbehaviour. As one source close to the inquiry put it: "There was a hell of a lot of dirty stuff going on."

    Two earlier Yard inquiries had failed to investigate the relevant notes in Mulcaire's logs.

    In a statement today, the family's lawyer, Mark Lewis of Taylor Hampton, said the Dowlers were distressed at the revelation. "It is distress heaped upon tragedy to learn that the News of the World had no humanity at such a terrible time. The fact that they were prepared to act in such a heinous way that could have jeopardised the police investigation and give them false hope is despicable," he said.

    Lewis told the BBC this afternoon the Dowler family was pursuing a damages claim against the News of the World.

    The News of the World's investigation was part of a long campaign against paedophiles championed by the then editor, Rebekah Brooks. The Labour MP Tom Watson last week told the House of Commons that four months after Milly Dowler's disappearance the News of the World had targeted one of the parents of the two 10-year-old Soham girls, Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, who were abducted and murdered on 4 August 2002.

    The behaviour of tabloid newspapers became an issue in the trial of Levi Bellfield, who last month was jailed for life for murdering Milly Dowler. A second charge, that he had attempted to abduct another Surrey schoolgirl, Rachel Cowles, had to be left on file after premature publicity by tabloids was held to have made it impossible for the jury to reach a fair verdict. The tabloids, however, focused their anger on Bellfield's defence lawyer, complaining that the questioning had caused unnecessary pain to Milly Dowler's parents.

    Surrey police referred all questions on the subject to Scotland Yard, who said they could not discuss it.

    News of the World's parent company News International, part of Murdoch's media empire, said the revelations were: "A development of great concern". It issued a statement saying: "We have been co-operating fully with Operation Weeting since our voluntary disclosure in January restarted the investigation into illegal voicemail interception. This particular case is clearly a development of great concern and we will be conducting our own inquiries as a result. We will obviously co-operate fully with any police request on this should we be asked."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world


    Its astonishing how their standards keep sinking to new lows isn't it?:(


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    The messages were deleted by journalists in the first few days after Milly's disappearance in order to free up space for more messages. As a result friends and relatives of Milly concluded wrongly that she might still be alive. Police feared evidence may have been destroyed.

    Horrendous! I would sue them mental and emotional distress immediately, and for so much that they'd have to shut down this sad excuse for a "news"paper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 664 ✭✭✭craggles


    Meanwhile, News Corporation now has total control of Sky


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭JimiWonderDoor 92


    How do tabloids get away with this?

    Remember when Piers Morgan, then editor had his paper run a story on american abuse of POWs in Iraq?

    It was a complete hoax and now that sniveling shít is the big thing in Americs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Absolutely disgusting, hope this paper gets sued out of existence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    The weekend edition of the Sun. the lowest of all gutter journalise the two of them. Nothing about that paper would surprise me, and would not beleive a single thing that either of them would print.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    How do tabloids get away with this?

    .....

    ....well, by having waved cash for stories at certain parties in the London police force is the underlying implication. They'd managed to sit on this for a considerable period of time, despite having the files of one of the leading PI's used.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    They tampered with evidence. People should be going to prison for this let alone being sued.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    I hope this finally brings Wade down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Agree, a very serious new low and one which must have grave consequences for those involved in tampering with phone/evidence.

    This is no longer just an investigation into phone hacking.:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭JimiWonderDoor 92


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....well, by having waved cash for stories at certain parties in the London police force is the underlying implication. They'd managed to sit on this for a considerable period of time, despite having the files of one of the leading PI's used.

    And these feckin phone taps as well.

    Murdoch tells us what to think and if we are in anyway powerful it seems he has the means to smear.

    Its like something out of Orwell or that Russian guy he ripped the idea off of.

    Shockin:mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....well, by having waved cash for stories at certain parties in the London police force is the underlying implication. They'd managed to sit on this for a considerable period of time, despite having the files of one of the leading PI's used.

    What a stupid deflecting point. Yes there are rumours of close ties between Newscorp and London MET and indeed the Government. So what? I suspect in every jurisdiction, there are similar ties between the major news/media companies and the local police force.

    There are already several investigations underway, several cases working there way through the courts, some have settled for substantial amounts, and Newscorp is trying its best to keep as many out of the courts. George Gallowway is determined to pursue his through court, not so much for the money (although he expects a big payment) but more to expose the truth.

    This latest report is much more serious than merely eavesdropping into voice messages, which is what has shocked the OP, and rightly so. So lets leave out the diversions and focus on point, ie the perpetrators. .:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭JimiWonderDoor 92


    What a stupid deflecting point. Yes there are rumours of close ties between Newscorp and London MET and indeed the Government. So what? I suspect in every jurisdiction, there are similar ties between the major news/media companies and the local police force.

    There are already several investigations underway, several cases working there way through the courts, some have settled for substantial amounts, and Newscorp is trying its best to keep as many out of the courts. George Gallowway is determined to pursue his through court, not so much for the money (although he expects a big payment) but more to expose the truth.

    This latest report is much more serious than merely eavesdropping into voice messages, which is what has shocked the OP, and rightly so. So lets leave out the diversions and focus on point, ie the perpetrators. .:confused:

    Galloway's a legend... and before you start mentioning that Sadam Hussein business; so is he. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    What a stupid deflecting point. Yes there are rumours of close ties between Newscorp and London MET and indeed the Government. So what? I suspect in every jurisdiction, there are similar ties between the major news/media companies and the local police force.

    There are already several investigations underway, several cases working there way through the courts, some have settled for substantial amounts, and Newscorp is trying its best to keep as many out of the courts. George Gallowway is determined to pursue his through court, not so much for the money (although he expects a big payment) but more to expose the truth.

    This latest report is much more serious than merely eavesdropping into voice messages, which is what has shocked the OP, and rightly so. So lets leave out the diversions and focus on point, ie the perpetrators. .:confused:

    "will i be the cat"

    He's a fame whore, he's doing it moreso for the money & the press IMO


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They tampered with evidence. People should be going to prison for this let alone being sued.

    Didn't the Private Investigator who carried out the hack itself get arrested and sent to jail?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    What a stupid deflecting point.........

    If you are going to pretend to base your jibes on the content of the thread, it would help if you made an effort. The facts are that the Met had the files of a PI convicted for hacking into a royals phone in 2007 and sat on them. The police were asked about this, shown relative evidence and still refused to open an investigation. It's only in the wake of civil actions been taken.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/may/12/phone-hacking-met-high-court

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jan/27/phone-hacking-police-investigation


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    Disgusting excuse for reading material only read by the dregs of society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Disgusting excuse for reading material only read by the dregs of society.

    Yes, but even so, this is fairly bad.....
    Interviewed on Channel 4 News, the Labour MP Tom Watson said that once the police investigation had been completed the Government should order a public inquiry.
    Mr Watson is a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, which has held an inquiry into the allegations. He said there was "a lot more to come out", including, he believed, allegations involving phone-hacking in the case of the Soham murders of schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.
    "Since I have been involved in this inquiry, there are a number of whistleblowers that I have spoken to and I believe there is a strong suspicion that one of the Soham parents was targeted by Glenn Mulcaire," he added.
    http://www.channel4.com/news/dowler-family-may-be-victims-of-phone-hacking


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you are going to pretend to base your jibes on the content of the thread, it would help if you made an effort. The facts are that the Met had the files of a PI convicted for hacking into a royals phone in 2007 and sat on them. The police were asked about this, shown relative evidence and still refused to open an investigation. It's only in the wake of civil actions been taken.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/may/12/phone-hacking-met-high-court

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jan/27/phone-hacking-police-investigation

    Hey Joe, Noddy's back and he's banging his head. :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    This hacking saga has taken a new, disgusting twist that few would have thought possible.

    Read the link below for the disturbing details.

    Don't want to? Long story short...

    Notw hacked Milly Dowler's mobile phone when news broke that she had gone missing.

    They deleted messages which created false hope for the family and killed potential evidence in the murder hunt.

    They then published an exclusive story shortly after this containing an interview from the family with the heartbreaking message that they still hoped that Milly was still alive because she seemed to be checking her mailbox and deleting messages.

    How this rag is allowed to stay in business is beyond me. Especially after this.

    I really, really can't believe that people could go to such depths to MAKE a story.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Dan133269


    I'm not exaggerating when I say such people should be killed.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Dan133269 wrote: »
    I'm not exaggerating when I say such people should be killed.

    Ssshhhh!!

    Don't be giving some other 'News'paper ideas for gods sake man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    The scum of the earth,such like the morons who read it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Dan133269 wrote: »
    I'm not exaggerating when I say such people should be killed.


    Yep, their readership hold such extremist views.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Bloody Nipples


    That's despicable. There should be serious jail time for those involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭bijapos


    Just boycott it, its worked well against The Sun in Liverpool for over 20 years. While your at it boycott all tabloids, they all use the same system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    There was a thread recently about what is wrong with people reading tabloid.

    Practices like this (if proven) are the reason they should be avoided.

    It's no shock that this is a Rupert Murdoch owned rag.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭keysersoze0330


    These people have absolutely crossed the line for their own benefit. This should be punishable with a life sentence to stamp this out once and for all. A silly pathetic fine will no doubt be the punishment dealt out tho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    As long as people keep buying that rubbish they will keep feeding it out. If all normal people keep away from that rubbish and don't but it, it should die off. But there is an element out there who thrive on this misery and as long as they are there, there will be a market for this filth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Don't buy it. It's sh1te anyway.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    No doubt NoTW will have a Cheryll Ashley exclusive and a free DVD of some British Classic this week to keep their 'readers' hooked...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    bijapos wrote: »
    Just boycott it, its worked well against The Sun in Liverpool for over 20 years. While your at it boycott all tabloids, they all use the same system.

    Isn't NoTW the Sunday version of the Sun?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    jesus thats terrible.

    the part where the notw were deleeting the first voicemails received is disgusting


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    More credence to the 'gingers are evil' theory: Rebekah Brooks, editor of the NotW at the time....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Absolute scumbag behaviour. Shows how desperate some newspapers are for stories. Print media is dying and some newspapers will sink to newer lows just to get a story. Hopefully this debacle will be the end of the NOTW.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I haven't bought a copy of that paper in many years.
    I'm missing nothing still it seems.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭checkyabadself


    I cannot wait for the day when I hear of Mr. Murdoch's passing. He is surely one of the most vulgar humans to live on this planet. His latest acquisition of the remainder of BSkyB is the latest attempt by him to influence politics and dominate the media to spread his brand of right wing conservatism.

    The News of the World staff involved involved in hacking phones, including the editor that signed off on it should face criminal charges.

    I agree with what was said previously concerning those that buy the paper and feed the problem.
    Some people really need sensationalist tripe to be kept interested. It's for this reason that incidents involving a small group, if not a lone individual often make the front page of their paper, when the individual (usually a rapist, pedophile or a woman who pays for her daughters pole dancing lessons) cannot possibly be the story that most affects the interest of the majority of the people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    Bastards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,639 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    I cannot wait for the day when I hear of Mr. Murdoch's passing.
    When Murdock shuffels off the mortal coil it will make no difference at all. He'll leave a vacume that will be filled by some other numpty that will pander to the gossip hungry public demand. Ultimatly it's our own fault for having no taste and the attention spa...oh look, shiney thing.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Spacedog


    I've been following this story, insiders have stated that this practise was done casually on thousands of peoples phones, from celebs, to victims of violent crimes. one rape victim who was accused of lying had her phone tapped and her conversations printed, she thought her friends were talking to the press and withdrew from them because of it.

    Scotland Yard have a full list of the people hacked, but refuse to release it or investigate every instance because they have a good relationship with the print media and need them to play spin ball whenever they shoot Brazilian electricians in Stockwell tube station.

    there will be a lot more cases like this brought forward you can be sure. the idea that it was done routinely is interesting. we live in an age where wire tapping is commonplace in law enforcement and government where a generation ago governments have fallen in scandal for a lot less. the attitude 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' has extended to the media, leading them to believe that it was ok to do this, like it was investigative journalism or something. it was their comfort and ease that lead to the slipping out or the royal phone message tap that started all this.

    at the end of the day these people are not hackers, they are creepy weasels and should treated as such. the next time someone says 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' to you, yank down their pants, take a picture of their needle dick and post it on facebook. they are willing to sell out everyone's privacy for their own security, entrainment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    We should have a little betting game....who will 'go' first, Murdoch or Thatcher?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    While it's easy to finger the utter scum that use these methods to search for stories, the people that want these stories (often at any cost) have to share some blame even if not actively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    kfallon wrote: »
    We should have a little betting game....who will 'go' first, Murdoch or Thatcher?

    http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Editors and staff involved should be jailed for aiding and abetting.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Listening to BBC2 Radio, they are saying this particular episode happened years before the other celeb phone hacking scandal (done by the same investigator in some cases).
    The question arises - how may others in between had their phones hacked?

    Just on the celeb hacking (as someone already mentioned), its shameful that the police are not saying who exact phones were hacked - even though they have 11,000 pages of notes from one investigator alone referring to hacking details.
    They are (and this was shown in a BBC Panorama program) in league with the media, covering their asses to a certain extent for their own reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    It's actually more worrying that the police ignored it than anything else. Certainly it'll be interesting to see the full list of phones hacked on the files they sat on, if they come into the public domain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    I have no respect for the NOTW ever since they tried to stitch me up with one of their 'Fake Sheikh' stings out in Hong Kong.....the wankbags!!! :mad:

    There we go, 4,000 posts and 3,998 are nothing but shite :rolleyes: :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Much as said yesterday.
    The parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, the two children murdered by Ian Huntley, were contacted by Scotland Yard detectives investigating phone hacking at the News of the World, it emerged on Tuesday.

    A spokesman for Cambridgeshire police said they were aware that the families of Wells and Chapman were contacted by the Metropolitan police about two months ago.

    It is believed the families were warned there was evidence to suggest they were targeted by Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator who was formerly employed by the paper.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/05/phone-hacking-soham-families-police


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭blow69


    This paper need to brought to it's knees and (metaphorically) kicked to death.


    Kind of like the mob mentality they inspire and support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Murt10


    Many of us don't buy NOTW, so boycotting the paper will achieve nothing.

    Bitterwallet on the other hand has come up with a way of hurting them.

    http://www.bitterwallet.com/how-to-let-news-of-the-world-advertisers-know-how-you-feel-about-them-funding-phone-hacking/46578

    I believe this type of tactic is used by pressure groups in the US with great success. When they don't like a particular TV programme for example, they individually contact the companies that have advertised during the programme, and let them know that they will boycott their product if they continue to advertise.

    It works wonders. Nothing like hitting the Bas***s hard where it hurts!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Murt10 wrote: »
    Many of us don't buy NOTW, so boycotting the paper will achieve nothing.

    Bitterwallet on the other hand has come up with a way of hurting them.

    http://www.bitterwallet.com/how-to-let-news-of-the-world-advertisers-know-how-you-feel-about-them-funding-phone-hacking/46578

    I believe this type of tactic is used by pressure groups in the US with great success. When they don't like a particular TV programme for example, they individually contact the companies that have advertised during the programme, and let them know that they will boycott their product if they continue to advertise.

    It works wonders. Nothing like hitting the Bas***s hard where it hurts!

    News International also publish the Irish Sun and the Sunday Times. I know I won't be buying the latter again.


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