VRT exemption

deano_rich

Hi,

I just want to see what people think of the link below, do you think this will eventually happen, or will the government find another loop hole? How long will the process take if it does happen?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ec-starts-legal-action-to-exempt-cross-border-drivers-from-vrt-511284.html

BaronVon

I would consider it an illegal tax, much in the same vein as when you could get duty free going to England.

Definitely should be abolished

Marcusm

It would be very interesting to see the legal basis provided by the commission as the facts cited relate to a small number of people. If it's truly a question of freedom of movement then it will be of limited relevance to Irish residents who simply want to buy a car from overseas as their freedom of movement/establishment is not being compromised.

Take the position of someone who lives and works in Stranorlar but fancies buying a cheap house in Ballybofey (other side of a border crossing bridge IIRC), if they have bought a car in prior 6 months they would not qualify for VRT exemption. In that case, I can see a treaty based freedom being infringed. It will be interesting to see if the govt argues that these are if limited application or if they waive the prior ownership rule but retain the limit to true changes of residence. I imagine that could be regarded as an appropriate remedy and not one which would rule VRT out entirely.

deano_rich

Marcusm wrote: »

It would be very interesting to see the legal basis provided by the commission as the facts cited relate to a small number of people. If it's truly a question of freedom of movement then it will be of limited relevance to Irish residents who simply want to buy a car from overseas as their freedom of movement/establishment is not being compromised.

Take the position of someone who lives and works in Stranorlar but fancies buying a cheap house in Ballybofey (other side of a border crossing bridge IIRC), if they have bought a car in prior 6 months they would not qualify for VRT exemption. In that case, I can see a treaty based freedom being infringed. It will be interesting to see if the govt argues that these are if limited application or if they waive the prior ownership rule but retain the limit to true changes of residence. I imagine that could be regarded as an appropriate remedy and not one which would rule VRT out entirely.

From what I gather the freedom of movement is based on the number of Irish that are temporarily living up North and pay tax on the NI reg car and pay insurance to be able to drive down south and yet still get pulled over by the Garda and car taken off them, which some consider illegal but the Garda get away with it anyway.

This is why the EC is stepping in I'd Imagine, because people like that are in breech of the 'freedom to move' right...?

MagicSean

Marcusm wrote: »

It would be very interesting to see the legal basis provided by the commission as the facts cited relate to a small number of people. If it's truly a question of freedom of movement then it will be of limited relevance to Irish residents who simply want to buy a car from overseas as their freedom of movement/establishment is not being compromised.

Take the position of someone who lives and works in Stranorlar but fancies buying a cheap house in Ballybofey (other side of a border crossing bridge IIRC), if they have bought a car in prior 6 months they would not qualify for VRT exemption. In that case, I can see a treaty based freedom being infringed. It will be interesting to see if the govt argues that these are if limited application or if they waive the prior ownership rule but retain the limit to true changes of residence. I imagine that could be regarded as an appropriate remedy and not one which would rule VRT out entirely.

I think it will come down to wether the freedom of movement in this instance can be interpreted to mean freedom to move in a vehicle or wether the vehicle is instead classed as goods being moved from one country to the other. There is no barrier to a person travelling from one country to the other in any other mode of transport.

deano_rich wrote: »

From what I gather the freedom of movement is based on the number of Irish that are temporarily living up North and pay tax on the NI reg car and pay insurance to be able to drive down south and yet still get pulled over by the Garda and car taken off them, which some consider illegal but the Garda get away with it anyway.

This is why the EC is stepping in I'd Imagine, because people like that are in breech of the 'freedom to move' right...?

They "get away with it"? Since when is enforcing a statutory power getting away with it?

Marcusm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I think it will come down to wether the freedom of movement in this instance can be interpreted to mean freedom to move in a vehicle or wether the vehicle is instead classed as goods being moved from one country to the other. There is no barrier to a person travelling from one country to the other in any other mode of transport.



They "get away with it"? Since when is enforcing a statutory power getting away with it?

That will depend on whether the ECJ determines if the statute is in conflict with EU law!! Ireland has accepted the supremacy of European law and any statutes which conflict with are unenforceable hence, I suspect, the reference to getting away with it.

I imagine the Gardai in border counties are exasperated by the number of Irish residents who use an accommodation address in the UK (NI) to justify driving a UK reg car. However, if someone has genuinely established themselves in the UK albeit temporarily, to seize that car would likely be in breach of that individual's freedom of establishment.

As ever the point is nuanced and sone describe it as meaning that VRT is an illegal tax(which I would not accept) and others would argue that no Irish person can drive a foreign registered car in Ireland - which I would also not accept, it will depend on whether that person has established themselves overseas.

Over time as this complaint is further considered, it may be ghat Garda HQ will need to ensure that local Gardai ask very searching questions before seizing cars. That said, i imagine that many are lawfully seized. The individual Gardai are not likely to be financially exposed if a car seizure is subsequently deemed unlawful but the State will be.