Today is a good day...

Leonard Hofstadter

... because scrappage is over!

It's the first day since January 1, 2010 that the car trade is not being indirectly subsidised everytime someone trades in an "old" car. Of course, in true Irish tradition, we decided to introduce a scrappage scheme when everyone else was close to finishing theirs.

It will be interesting to see what happens car sales. I suspect they will fall off a cliff, but on the other hand car sales always fall off a cliff at this time of the year, since people are just going to wait until January 2012 to buy a new car now.

If you're still desperate for "scrappage", Renualt, king of the discounters(wonder what this will do for residuals in a few years time, it's not like Renaults were class leaders for depreciation before they started giving away cars) will still give you a "scrappage" allowance if you trade in your "old" car.

Needler

So many perfectly good cars gone to waste over this bloody scrappage thing. Would have done more for the local economy to keep those cars going since they require a bit more maintainence

Leonard Hofstadter

Needler wrote: »

So many perfectly good cars gone to waste over this bloody scrappage thing. Would have done more for the local economy to keep those cars going since they require a bit more maintainence

+1, this is why I have argued before on this forum that the scrappage scheme is *not* a good thing for the car trade, or at least the considerable part of it that has no connections with the glass palaces.

Even the main dealers would in some respects do better, because the parts departments would be busier with people spending money on fixing their old cars rather than scrapping them.

You should see some of the stuff that has been scrapped, it would just make you cry to see the likes of LS400s, 5 series, 7 series, MB E and S classes, even an Audi S8 (not A8 but an S8) etc being scrapped - all of these cars would have lasted several more years on the road if it wasn't for this thing prematurely taking perfectly good cars off the road.

I wouldn't mind if it was new 520ds or E class diesels or even a high spec Mondeo/Insignia etc (which you can buy under scrappage because their emissions are low enough), but it was all disposable sh!te like Hyundai i10s, Renault Meganes, Toyota Yarises etc that were bought :mad:!

colm_mcm

Renault new lower list prices imminent.

Hopefully open book prices come in, trade ins are based on actual values and all this building in big discounts into the list price ends

whippet

captainspeed wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if it was new 520ds or E class diesels or even a high spec Mondeo/Insignia etc (which you can buy under scrappage because their emissions are low enough), but it was all disposable sh!te like Hyundai i10s, Renault Meganes, Toyota Yarises etc that were bought :mad:!

Step away from the Top Gear magazine ......

So it was all ****e being offered .... How about the motor I bought (allbeit not under the scrap page scheme) this year which qualified for scrappage.

Skoda Superb Combi Greenline Elegance. Came as standard with,

Leather
park assist (as in automatic parallel parking)
Parking sensors
Blutooth
DVD player
Sat Nav
cruise
adaptive bi-xenons
Alloys etc, etc.......


The Irish Market was always leaning towards under specced cars historically, but to blame the scrap page scheme for the taste of the car buying public is nonsense.

johnos1984

whippet wrote: »

Skoda Superb Combi Greenline Elegance. Came as standard with,

Leather
park assist (as in automatic parallel parking)
Parking sensors
Blutooth
DVD player
Sat Nav
cruise
adaptive bi-xenons
Alloys etc, etc.......

And a 1.6TDI

Yep, that's impressive you paid for all of that to be pulled around by an under powered motor.

R.O.R

Today was a good day. Managed to get hold of the people I needed to speak to as they weren't running around like headless chickens.

How much longer I'll be able to get hold of people is another thing. Without scrappage getting the footfall through the door, we are probably going to see another lot of dealer closures (sure, one went on the 30th June - probably the second highest number of cars registered after first day of Jan).

That makes me sad, and quite afraid

Plug

Now I can't scavenge petrol tanks any more. Got a few tank fulls anyway:p

whippet

johnos1984 wrote: »

And a 1.6TDI

Yep, that's impressive you paid for all of that to be pulled around by an under powered motor.

yawn ..... you obviously have no idea what the motor is like.

my previous car was a mkv GTI, and the power drop in real terms means nothing. 105bhp is perfectly fine in a day to day motor doing big mileage. I've just returned from a 4000km trip to the south of france with the motor fully loaded and never once missed the power.

Years of driving quick cars day to day made me realise I only used the extra power because I had it rather than needing it.

I will be buying another weekend car which won't be efficient, won't be slow and won't be practical in the very near future. the 1.6tdi is plenty for me for my mundane 25,000km a year.

RandomAccess

Perhaps some more car dealers will close.
They are unlikely to do any more business with those who had cash hidden in the mattress.

Leonard Hofstadter

whippet wrote: »

Step away from the Top Gear magazine ......

So it was all ****e being offered .... How about the motor I bought (allbeit not under the scrap page scheme) this year which qualified for scrappage.

Skoda Superb Combi Greenline Elegance. Came as standard with,

Leather
park assist (as in automatic parallel parking)
Parking sensors
Blutooth
DVD player
Sat Nav
cruise
adaptive bi-xenons
Alloys etc, etc.......


The Irish Market was always leaning towards under specced cars historically, but to blame the scrap page scheme for the taste of the car buying public is nonsense.

Well if you read my post correctly I said I didn't have (much of) a problem with people buying the bottom end prestige cars or high spec Mondeos/Insignias etc, so since the Superb is a competitor to those, and an Elegance is the top spec model, I would have thought that it was obvious that I didn't mean a car like that is in the "disposable sh!te" category;)!

What I would like to know is why did you buy a car that big with a povety spec Irish style low powered engine, especially if you were not buying on scrappage:)?

Anyway, my point still stands. Most of the cars bought under the scrappage scheme with small little yokes like Twingos, i10s etc in the most basic trim and no extras - they are by definition disposable rubbish boxes on wheels.

PARKHEAD67

Today was a good day. Nice and sunny.Cops out with there little cameras to keep us all safe .Think one of em caught me doing 60 in a 50. How dangerous. cant wait to get my points and fine.I HATE em:mad:

johnos1984

whippet wrote: »

yawn ..... you obviously have no idea what the motor is like.

I've driven it and I run a 1.9TDI with the same 105bhp. I find them similar to drive but obviously the newer one is more refined. And I cover 25k MILES a year in a Passat B6. The engine is adequate, and just about at that as the car is too heavy for it.

The Superb is too heavy for the engine end of, the sad thing is there are lots of high spec low powered cars driving around Irish roads. I'm not talking about having a massive engine with lots of power but that car really does need the 2L.

whippet

captainspeed wrote: »

What I would like to know is why did you buy a car that big with a povety spec Irish style low powered engine, especially if you were not buying on scrappage:)?

poverty spec?

what are you on about, the engine choice was based on efficiency factors based on doing very much increased mileage over the next 5 years or so.

I also would take exception to your assertion that Yaris' are 'disposable' .. i'd imagine there is a higher percentage of 10-12 years old Yaris' on the road than c-class mercs of the same vintage.

whippet

johnos1984 wrote: »

The Superb is too heavy for the engine end of, the sad thing is there are lots of high spec low powered cars driving around Irish roads. I'm not talking about having a massive engine with lots of power but that car really does need the 2L.

I would fundamentally disagree with you, I had a smaller 200bhp motor for years and changed it to the Superb. Do you think I would do so lightly, the power isn't an issue day to day. I don't drive like a lunatic day to day, the engine is adequate.

johnos1984

whippet wrote: »

I would fundamentally disagree with you, I had a smaller 200bhp motor for years and changed it to the Superb. Do you think I would do so lightly, the power isn't an issue day to day. I don't drive like a lunatic day to day, the engine is adequate.

Disagree all you want but it is under powered in that size car.

Having the right engine in a car isn't about power and driving like a loon. Its about not knackering out an engine due to overstressing it in a overly large car. It also helps people to overtake safely and pull out from junctions easier.

Also it will be more efficient at motorway speeds as it will be revving less. Yours is a 5 speed which won't help efficiency above 100kph.

I'mm glad you're happy with it but its not a good engine in a car that size

Leonard Hofstadter

johnos1984 wrote: »

I've driven it and I run a 1.9TDI with the same 105bhp. I find them similar to drive but obviously the newer one is more refined. And I cover 25k MILES a year in a Passat B6. The engine is adequate, and just about at that as the car is too heavy for it.

The Superb is too heavy for the engine end of, the sad thing is there are lots of high spec low powered cars driving around Irish roads. I'm not talking about having a massive engine with lots of power but that car really does need the 2L.

+1, these small displacement low power engines are indeed fine 99% of the time, it's that 1% of the time when you're overtaking something that you really wish you had an engine with more go in it.

That's why I would always spend the extra money for a larger engine, and also a larger engine will be quieter on a motorway (it can run at lower revs because it has more power), it will be more reliable (it won't be under as much pressure so the engine won't wear as quickly) and it will in fact be more economical at higher speeds, because it has a much easier life.

whippet wrote: »

poverty spec?



what are you on about, the engine choice was based on efficiency factors based on doing very much increased mileage over the next 5 years or so.



I also would take exception to your assertion that Yaris' are 'disposable' .. i'd imagine there is a higher percentage of 10-12 years old Yaris' on the road than c-class mercs of the same vintage.

Well I'm sorry but it most definitely IS a poverty spec engine - in Ireland most people buy it, but in the UK for example, the best selling engine is the 2.0 TDI, and not the 140 unit, but the 170 unit at that! Basically outside of Ireland, the most common engine in a Superb is the 2.0 diesel. The 1.6 is there to give Skoda bragging rights about how they sell a very economical engine, and for markets with the Irish mentality, no other reason!

Alanstrainor

johnos1984 wrote: »

And a 1.6TDI

Yep, that's impressive you paid for all of that to be pulled around by an under powered motor.

whippet wrote: »

yawn ..... you obviously have no idea what the motor is like.

my previous car was a mkv GTI, and the power drop in real terms means nothing. 105bhp is perfectly fine in a day to day motor doing big mileage. I've just returned from a 4000km trip to the south of france with the motor fully loaded and never once missed the power.

Years of driving quick cars day to day made me realise I only used the extra power because I had it rather than needing it.

I will be buying another weekend car which won't be efficient, won't be slow and won't be practical in the very near future. the 1.6tdi is plenty for me for my mundane 25,000km a year.

johnos1984 wrote: »

I've driven it and I run a 1.9TDI with the same 105bhp. I find them similar to drive but obviously the newer one is more refined. And I cover 25k MILES a year in a Passat B6. The engine is adequate, and just about at that as the car is too heavy for it.

The Superb is too heavy for the engine end of, the sad thing is there are lots of high spec low powered cars driving around Irish roads. I'm not talking about having a massive engine with lots of power but that car really does need the 2L.

whippet wrote: »

I would fundamentally disagree with you, I had a smaller 200bhp motor for years and changed it to the Superb. Do you think I would do so lightly, the power isn't an issue day to day. I don't drive like a lunatic day to day, the engine is adequate.

johnos1984 wrote: »

Disagree all you want but it is under powered in that size car.

Having the right engine in a car isn't about power and driving like a loon. Its about not knackering out an engine due to overstressing it in a overly large car. It also helps people to overtake safely and pull out from junctions easier.

Also it will be more efficient at motorway speeds as it will be revving less. Yours is a 5 speed which won't help efficiency above 100kph.

I'mm glad you're happy with it but its not a good engine in a car that size

captainspeed wrote: »

+1, these small displacement low power engines are indeed fine 99% of the time, it's that 1% of the time when you're overtaking something that you really wish you had an engine with more go in it.

That's why I would always spend the extra money for a larger engine, and also a larger engine will be quieter on a motorway (it can run at lower revs because it has more power), it will be more reliable (it won't be under as much pressure so the engine won't wear as quickly) and it will in fact be more economical at higher speeds, because it has a much easier life.

Looks at these posts...looks at title of thread...

EPM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Looks at these posts...looks at title of thread...

Welcome to motors:D

johnos1984

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Looks at these posts...looks at title of thread...

Whippet jumped in with a stupid comment and in fairness it is just a discussion thread with no question asked.

The car being discussed was also a scrappage scheme car so its not too far off topic

whippet

captainspeed wrote: »

+1, these small displacement low power engines are indeed fine 99% of the time, it's that 1% of the time when you're overtaking something that you really wish you had an engine with more go in it.
.

i'd reckon 90% of the time overtaking in ireland is done between 70-80kph or lower ... it's not a problem in the 1.6tdi.

As for fuel effeciency at motorway speeds, on a 600km run on french motorways it was achieving in excess of 60mpg.

And talking about safety at junctions ,, again nonsense, safety at junctions has nothing to do with power .. its about driving properly.

Don't get me wrong, I love power in my cars hence I am looking at a weekend car .. but as someone who has owned relatively powerful motors the 1.6tdi lump is more than adaquate.

Alanstrainor

johnos1984 wrote: »

Whippet jumped in with a stupid comment and in fairness it is just a discussion thread with no question asked.

The car being discussed was also a scrappage scheme car so its not too far off topic

's cool

whippet

johnos1984 wrote: »

Whippet jumped in with a stupid comment and in fairness it is just a discussion thread with no question asked.

The car being discussed was also a scrappage scheme car so its not too far off topic

well back on topic then .. how can you justify calling a Yaris a disposable car?

captainspeed wrote:

but it was all disposable sh!te like Hyundai i10s, Renault Meganes, Toyota Yarises etc that were bought

comments like that wouldn't really give me much credence to your other opinions

johnos1984

whippet wrote: »

well back on topic then .. how can you justify calling a Yaris a disposable car?



comments like that wouldn't really give me much credence to your other opinions

I never made either of those comments so I suppose my opinions are respectable:rolleyes:

whippet

johnos1984 wrote: »

I never made either of those comments so I suppose my opinions are respectable:rolleyes:

apologies ..i've edited that !!! i meant to quote captainspeed's remark !!

naughtysmurf

Well, SIMI came out last week and said they were happy with the scrappage scheme, I assume that all those working in the dealerships, sales, finance etc etc even the guy whose job it was to wash the new vehicle before it was given to it's new owner were happy to be still working rather than not working.
You have to assume also that the person who got his new car with the discount was happy.
That's a lot of happy people.

So who is not happy? Those whose car didn't qualify????

I bought a car under the scrappage scheme, had trade in from 2000, looked after it, serviced regulary, timing belt done on time etc etc but it was starting to give a few problems and so would have had to change in the next year or so anyway, have kids so safety & reliability is important, so for me scrappage was a no brainer in the current financial climate, I will drive it for at least 8 years so residual value not so important, I'll look after it etc, it's more economical, more enviornmently friendly, safer....so what's the issue?

My alternative? To buy a 2 or 3yr old car with a poxy 3 or 6 month warranty
I don't think so!

Car sales will drop off, no doubt, but if the dealerships want to stay in business they will have to continue to offer incentives in some shape or form until we get ourselves out of the economic s***e we're in, that's just business!!!!

Needler

naughtysmurf wrote: »

So who is not happy? Those whose car didn't qualify????

Anyone looking to buy a decent used car for cheap because they all had to be scrapped.

I honestly can't see how encouraging people to send 10-35k abroad for a new car they don't really need could ever have passed for a good idea to help us out of the recession

whippet

Needler wrote: »

Anyone looking to buy a decent used car for cheap because they all had to be scrapped.

I'd say a high proportion of cars scrapped were not special or unique .. there is still plenty of decent cheap cars out there to be had just take a look through the bangeronomics thread

I had the option of scrapping an E36 coupe, but decided I will put a bit of money in to it to get it back on the road. the 2.5L straight six has only 80k miles on it. I will cost me more than what I would have got on scrappage to fix it up and probably about twice what it's actually worth .. but sometimes sentimentality wins over.

Alanstrainor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Looks at these posts...looks at title of thread...

EPM wrote: »

Welcome to motors:D

Couldn't even remember what the thread was tbh :pac:

naughtysmurf

Needler wrote: »

Anyone looking to buy a decent used car for cheap because they all had to be scrapped.

I honestly can't see how encouraging people to send 10-35k abroad for a new car they don't really need could ever have passed for a good idea to help us out of the recession

I wasn't originally looking a getting a new car but my options were looking like spending 12 to 14k on a used one with a very short warranty or a new one for an extra couple of grand with a three,five or seven year warranty.

How do you know whether anybody needed a new car or not. In order to know this, you would have to know everybody who scrapped a car, the condition of the car they scrapped and what they needed in a new vehicle on a day to day basis.

The scrappage scheme wasn't designed to have any major effect on the performance of the economy, it was to breath some life into an industry that was dying rapidly and also to remove older cars which by their nature tend to be less safe and less reliable.

I'm open to correction but as far as I know less than 18,000 cars were scrapped in 2010 and the figures for 2011 are similar.

It's now up to the car makers / distributors / dealerships to continue to entice the public into the showrooms with incentives of some kind otherwise they have a very long road ahead

unkel

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Well, SIMI came out last week and said they were happy with the scrappage scheme, I assume that all those working in the dealerships, sales, finance etc etc even the guy whose job it was to wash the new vehicle before it was given to it's new owner were happy to be still working rather than not working.
You have to assume also that the person who got his new car with the discount was happy.
That's a lot of happy people.

They only got the scrapes. The bulk of the money went abroad, a lot of it to the far east...

It would have boosted the Irish economy far more if the same total subsidy that went into the scrappage scheme, was used to boost Irish companies instead

Don't get me wrong here now. Some people in the car industry in Ireland kept their jobs that would have been lost without the scrappage scheme. And I'm delighted for those people. All I'm saying though is that with the same money more Irish jobs could have been saved / created

bazz26

I'm just glad I don't have to endure those stupid Renault adverts anymore.

johnos1984

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm just glad I don't have to endure those stupid Renault adverts anymore.

Will we still have to put up with Renaults in general though?

Leonard Hofstadter

johnos1984 wrote: »

Will we still have to put up with Renaults in general though?

It's going to be fun watching people trading in their Renaults in a few years time, they are going to be worth so little because they are being depreciated on the "scrappage" price and not the list price, I nearly feel sorry for those who bought them thinking they got a bargain.

johnos1984

captainspeed wrote: »

It's going to be fun watching people trading in their Renaults in a few years time, they are going to be worth so little because they are being depreciated on the "scrappage" price and not the list price, I nearly feel sorry for those who bought them thinking they got a bargain.

Aye,

I can't disagree with any of that. Citroen anyone?

captainspeed

captainspeed wrote: »

........... I nearly feel sorry for those who bought them thinking they got a bargain.

Anyone who runs their 2011 Megane diesel that cost them €15,000 for the next eight years who does 20,000 miles/annum may well get right good value out of it.

Needler

johnos1984 wrote: »

Will we still have to put up with Renaults in general though?

With the money spent on the scrappage scheme they could have bought Renault a new design team and a bunch of engineers so their cars wouldn't be so ugly and sh1te

BrianD3

captainspeed wrote: »

It's going to be fun watching people trading in their Renaults in a few years time, they are going to be worth so little because they are being depreciated on the "scrappage" price and not the list price, I nearly feel sorry for those who bought them thinking they got a bargain.

This crap again. They did get a bargain - they got an economical 2011 family hatch with a 5 year warranty at 1991 family hatch prices.

And of course they'll be depreciated on the scrappage price not on the list price. People know this. I'm aware that know-nothings in this forum think that anyone who buys a Renault or any new small car is some sort of fool. But actually people aren't as foolish as you think.

Looks like I have to repeat myself from previous threads. In general, the less you pay for a car the less you lose in depreciation.

The ones who have suffered (in terms of how much their car is now worth) are those who bought Renaults just before the big discounts were introduced. But the same is true for many other cars and other makes which have seen big price reductions for whatever reason. How much would someone have paid for a base spec BMW 520d in 2007? How much was it worth in 2010?

Anyway, if someone keeps their 2008 Megane or 2007 520d that they bought new for a good many years, it won't matter anyway.

Renault is continuing its discounting and for some models seems to be giving bigger discounts to partially compensate for the removal of gov. scrappage. The Goverment scrappage of 1250 is gone but the Megane Royale has gone up by 500-700 quid. This is good news for consumers as anyone can avail of Renault's discounts whereas only those who met certain conditions could avail of the gov. "discount". It's particularly good news for anyone buying a new car in a straight deal.

ThisRegard

captainspeed wrote: »

... because scrappage is over!


If you're still desperate for "scrappage", Renualt, king of the discounters(wonder what this will do for residuals in a few years time, it's not like Renaults were class leaders for depreciation before they started giving away cars) will still give you a "scrappage" allowance if you trade in your "old" car.

Change the record would you, and all the others with similar comments. And residuals and discounts were explained many times by more knowledgable folks around here, have a read, it's not that complicated.

Edit, just noticed one of these knowledgeable folks, Brian, just had to explain things all over again.

-Chris-

But what was the total net cost of the scrappage scheme versus the number of jobs created/saved?

How will this compare to the current jobs initiative? The cost of the Vat reduction will apparently be €350m, how effective will that be compared to the scrappage scheme?

BrianD3

-Chris- wrote: »

But what was the total net cost of the scrappage scheme versus the number of jobs created/saved?

It's very difficult to say because the Government scrappage scheme coincided with heavy discounting and marketing by manufacturers/distributors/dealers.

In many cases the Gov. scappage was less than these other discounts. Although the fact that the Gov. scrappage had a known and believable end date (but which was subsequently extended) could have caused something of a buying frenzy

In the case of Renault they've increased their market share significantly but would have done so even without the Gov. scrappage. In early 2009 I was offered a brand new Laguna for 23k, list price at the time was 32k. They were calling it cashback then and this was many months before scrappage was brought in and but also before Renault's marketing dept went into overdrive.

Other makes were slow to respond to this discounting and no wonder that 2009 was a terrible year for car sales.

Now that gov. scrappage has come and gone it wil be interesting to see what happens now. Will throat slitting amongst distributors increase? As I said in the other post, Renault seems to have increased its discount and this is available to everyone not just those who have a 10 year old car that has been insured, taxed and been brought for an NCT etc.. Someone who was not eligible for this gov. scrappage could now be in a better position.

naughtysmurf

BrianD3 wrote: »

This crap again. They did get a bargain - they got an economical 2011 family hatch with a 5 year warranty at 1991 family hatch prices.

And of course they'll be depreciated on the scrappage price not on the list price. People know this. I'm aware that know-nothings in this forum think that anyone who buys a Renault or any new small car is some sort of fool. But actually people aren't as foolish as you think.

Looks like I have to repeat myself from previous threads. In general, the less you pay for a car the less you lose in depreciation.

The ones who have suffered (in terms of how much their car is now worth) are those who bought Renaults just before the big discounts were introduced. But the same is true for many other cars and other makes which have seen big price reductions for whatever reason. How much would someone have paid for a base spec BMW 520d in 2007? How much was it worth in 2010?

Anyway, if someone keeps their 2008 Megane or 2007 520d that they bought new for a good many years, it won't matter anyway.

Renault is continuing its discounting and for some models seems to be giving bigger discounts to partially compensate for the removal of gov. scrappage. The Goverment scrappage of 1250 is gone but the Megane Royale has gone up by 500-700 quid. This is good news for consumers as anyone can avail of Renault's discounts whereas only those who met certain conditions could avail of the gov. "discount". It's particularly good news for anyone buying a new car in a straight deal.

Agreed,

A mate of mine paid €33,000 for a new Passat in 2007, not sure what model, high spec though, best he could get for it in 2010 was €11,500 when he was looking to trade up to a 5 series bmw, is that a 66% depreciation in 3yrs? he was not a happy bunny

GreeBo

I'm being offered €2k off any new superb and €1500 off any octavia from the Skoda list price, this is effectively the same as the scrappage deal so not much has changed IMO.

Lead time has dropped from 12weeks to a max of 6 though...

pajo1981

captainspeed wrote: »

It's going to be fun watching people trading in their Renaults in a few years time, they are going to be worth so little because they are being depreciated on the "scrappage" price and not the list price, I nearly feel sorry for those who bought them thinking they got a bargain.

Fail maths much?

Kashkai

I wonder if the guys who slag off Renaults ever actually owned one??? I've now had 8 of them and only had problems with one, and that was the electric window. Didn't break down and leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere like my Toyota (best built cars in the world) Corolla did or my Volkswagen (if only everything in life was as reliable......) Golf did as well.

The depreciation remarks are laughable. These cars were being sold without the normal dealer mark up and being passed off as the Renault double scrappage (like all the other marques were doing). These cars would have lost that amount in depreciation anyway, scrappage discount or not. I thought everyone knew that the depreciation on a new car was savage. Selling them with some of this depreciation "built in" won't have much effect on the trade in price in three years.

Fwiw, I thought the scrappage scheme was a mistake. Would have made more sense to subsidise car servicing to make sure cars were roadworthy. This would have been more beneficial to the economy by investing in Irish car mechanics jobs than subsidising foreign built cars.

johnos1984

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I wonder if the guys who slag off Renaults ever actually owned one???

Yes and it was ****e so no surprises there

-Chris-

pajo1981 wrote: »

Fail maths much?

Huh?

Prosperous Dave

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

..........These cars were being sold without the normal dealer mark up and being passed off as the Renault double scrappage (like all the other marques were doing). These cars would have lost that amount in depreciation anyway, scrappage discount or not. I thought everyone knew that the depreciation on a new car was savage. Selling them with some of this depreciation "built in" won't have much effect on the trade in price in three years. ...........

That is the point people are making, folks buying these cheap Renault reckon the depreciation is is built in, many reckon it's not and in 3 years the depreciation on the €15,000 Megane will still be savage, ie the car will be worth absolutely feck all come trade in time.