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New Aer Lingus A319 delivered to Dublin

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    Great shot there!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭IrishB.ie


    Why is it going into storage for so long?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 939 ✭✭✭Zyox


    Ah I heard that today on the radio and didn't know what it was. Was flying under the registration instead of the callsign. Never heard that before on a delivery flight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    6 Months storage and half of that in peak season, seems a waste of aeroplane.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 high ho


    6 Months storage and half of that in peak season, seems a waste of aeroplane.

    must have got a good deal on it so.
    epr is a good reg. cfm/ei use n1 though instead.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 Kildare Resident


    Maybe they need to carry out their own tests on it before they fly it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭Dogwatch


    Maybe they done have enough pilots to operate the aircraft.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭joegriffinjnr


    Lovley aircraft will fit nicley in to the EI fleet. Would love to see an Interior shot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    Dogwatch wrote: »
    Maybe they done have enough pilots to operate the aircraft.

    The A319/A320/A321 all have a common cockpit, with just a short conversion course required for each which is just a couple of weeks I think. Then pilots can be rostered on all 3 aircraft.

    I'd say its more to do with testing or probably the fact that the summer schedule has already been done and they're just waiting till the winter season to be able to fit it into their roster without disruption.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭cocoshovel


    Ah nice one. Its always good to see an Airline expanding their aircraft types. I wonder what routes this will be used on?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I think they are a terrible looking machine with landing gear down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Dacian


    6 Months storage and half of that in peak season, seems a waste of aeroplane.

    EI barely have enough crews to operate their short haul fleet as it is without adding 4 more units!!

    This is what happens when you cut to the bone in an industry that is always going to have disruptions to the carefully planned power point driven schedule created by a suit with no operational experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Would love to see a picture of an 319/320 together taxing or on stand or something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    It's in hiding now :)

    8c206_thumb.jpg

    72582_thumb.jpg

    6c34a_thumb.jpg


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I am guessing they are planning to launch twice daily (morning and evening) flights to business oriented cities like Dusseldorf where flying an a320 half empty would uneconomical.

    Wouldn't a few Embraer E-175 and E-195's be the right thing and it would allow them to reopen routes from the Cork and Shannon they axed years ago eg. Prague and other Eastern European routes than Wizz and Ryanair are operating nicely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I am guessing they are planning to launch twice daily (morning and evening) flights to business oriented cities like Dusseldorf where flying an a320 half empty would uneconomical.

    Wouldn't a few Embraer E-175 and E-195's be the right thing and it would allow them to reopen routes from the Cork and Shannon they axed years ago eg. Prague and other Eastern European routes than Wizz and Ryanair are operating nicely.

    It all comes down to cost-benefit analysis. Having a fleet of Embraers might allow them to fly thinner routes such as Cork-Prague and Shannon-Paris which would require less passengers to fill the plane at decent yields, but the costs of training new crew to fly the aircraft and training mechanics to maintain them might outweigh any such benefits.

    The focus for Aer Lingus though will be on maximising the number of connecting passengers on their transatlantic flights, so they'll be using the new A319s on daily routes such as Geneva where they can fly twice daily instead and allow connections through Dublin to the states.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    With a differential of approx 30 seats on an all economy A319 vs A320, I can't help but wonder if there is enough of a capacity cut to make a difference and make double daily flights profitable option.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Jim236 wrote: »
    It all comes down to cost-benefit analysis. Having a fleet of Embraers might allow them to fly thinner routes such as Cork-Prague and Shannon-Paris which would require less passengers to fill the plane at decent yields, but the costs of training new crew to fly the aircraft and training mechanics to maintain them might outweigh any such benefits.

    The focus for Aer Lingus though will be on maximising the number of connecting passengers on their transatlantic flights, so they'll be using the new A319s on daily routes such as Geneva where they can fly twice daily instead and allow connections through Dublin to the states.

    I understand where you are coming from with staffing issues wheras the A319 allows for the current staff to make the change much easier than if they got in different jets as explained earlier.

    I wonder would Wet leasing be an option wherby crews and pilots are provided and Aer Lingus could sell the product then or would this cause the unions to throw the toys out of the pram?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    It's in hiding now :)
    Is that inside Hanger 6?

    Would it not get in the way for the next 6 months?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I wonder would Wet leasing be an option wherby crews and pilots are provided and Aer Lingus could sell the product then or would this cause the unions to throw the toys out of the pram?

    Yes it would probly upset the unions and rightly so! "outsourcing" would be one of the reasons i would like to have union protection i am not in a union and am not pro-union either but i wouldnt like to see jobs outsourced! Unions want to protect their members jobs! Outsourcing would also mean Aer Lingus dont have controll on service standards, operating procedures etc! Look what happened on that Aer lingus regional flight with the crew member and the passenger the other day! Its was an Aer Arann flight attendant but Aer Lingus got the blame!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I wonder would Wet leasing be an option wherby crews and pilots are provided and Aer Lingus could sell the product then or would this cause the unions to throw the toys out of the pram?

    Its an option but it would be an expensive one that would likely outweigh any profits made. Airlines only usually wet lease aircraft/crew when they require aircraft to operate a schedule for part of the year where there wouldn't be a market for operating a year-round service; or where one of their own aircraft has gone tech and they require an aircraft to maintain their schedule; or where they may have ordered new aircraft but their schedule started sooner and they need to lease in aircraft until their own are delivered. Outside of this, it doesn't make sense to wet lease.
    Locker10a wrote: »
    Yes it would probly upset the unions and rightly so! "outsourcing" would be one of the reasons i would like to have union protection i am not in a union and am not pro-union either but i wouldnt like to see jobs outsourced! Unions want to protect their members jobs!

    It works both ways. When the recession first hit, Aer Arann turned to wet-leasing their aircraft/crew to Fincomm during the winter season, which arguably saved jobs that would've otherwise been cut had they just relied on business in Ireland.
    Locker10a wrote: »
    Outsourcing would also mean Aer Lingus dont have controll on service standards, operating procedures etc! Look what happened on that Aer lingus regional flight with the crew member and the passenger the other day! Its was an Aer Arann flight attendant but Aer Lingus got the blame!

    Not the same thing as Aer Lingus aren't wet leasing aircraft/crew from Aer Arann, Aer Arann are merely using the Aer Lingus brand and paying EI a royalty fee for doing so.

    Also you'll find that Aer Lingus and Aer Arann will have a standing agreement whereby Aer Lingus would set out what it expects of Aer Arann on Aer Lingus Regional flights, and cabin service would be one of those conditions. It doesn't prevent a shoddy cabin service but it does mean the responsibility and liability lies with Aer Arann in cases such as the one you mention, and it also allows Aer Lingus to stop Aer Arann using the Aer Lingus brand were it to become a regular occurance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    IrishB.ie wrote: »
    Why is it going into storage for so long?

    cos it probably will avoid strike action during the busy periods when their staff will want extra pay to set foot on a new plane...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭Bessarion


    cos it probably will avoid strike action during the busy periods when their staff will want extra pay to set foot on a new plane...

    Lemons for breakfast today?

    The A319 is the same aircraft family and same licence as the A320/A321. The EI staff would maybe require a short conversion course due to different handling and/or cabin layout. Once that is done working on the A319 will be not much different that on an A320 or A321.

    Consider that in the last year we have seen EI staff move to a new office building and new terminal without any 'disruption allowance' a la the Civil Service your comment smacks of baiting.


    I am confident that we will see more A319 in the next 2-5 years with EI. Perhaps an eventual 50/50 split with the A320?
    They allow them to access more airports profitably. Perhaps doing a LH Regional on it and upgrading current EIR routes to A319, then the ATRs start new routes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Bessarion wrote: »
    Lemons for breakfast today?

    The A319 is the same aircraft family and same licence as the A320/A321. The EI staff would maybe require a short conversion course due to different handling and/or cabin layout. Once that is done working on the A319 will be not much different that on an A320 or A321.

    Consider that in the last year we have seen EI staff move to a new office building and new terminal without any 'disruption allowance' a la the Civil Service your comment smacks of baiting.

    WOW - you moved office and didn't strike because you didn't get an allowance?? That's amazing!

    Comparing yourselves to the civil service shows exactly what type of mindset is prevalent in there. I.e Why there is literally always a strike brewing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Would love to see a picture of an 319/320 together taxing or on stand or something.

    Its not uncommon to see. 319, 320 and 321 all on stand next to each other at LHR.

    BMI use mainly 319s but have a few 320s. And 321s and they can often be seen parked up next to a EI 321 or 320.

    The difference between an A321 and an A319 is quite significant considering they are more or less the same plane.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭cuterob


    the difference between the three in simple terms is this..the a321 is like a slow slugish people carrier..the a320 is a good all round family car..and the a319 is like a sports car


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭joegriffinjnr


    the difference between the three in simple terms is this..the a321 is like a slow slugish people carrier..the a320 is a good all round family car..and the a319 is like a sports car

    Where does that leave the poor little A318 then :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Where does that leave the poor little A318 then :)

    City run-about


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Bessarion wrote: »
    Consider that in the last year we have seen EI staff move to a new office building and new terminal without any 'disruption allowance' a la the Civil Service your comment smacks of baiting.

    lol, the poor craters....they should all have got 2 weeks holidays, a pay rise and gold stars on their badges.

    disruption allowance? my god, ive heard it all now. unionised farcical company.

    back on topic, i hope the new planes come on board soon and serve some routes that i use.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    I think the poster was pointing out that unlike the civil service they accepted changes in their company as is the norm is most private companies.

    Wasn't there a farce last year were a govt department got compensation for moving to a new office 500 metres away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    Not meaning to insert a spoon into the mix here and start strirring, this is a genuine question.

    The girl who missed out on her transplant in Sligo over the weekend, because the CG chopper was unavailable/untasked/unrequested. Would it not be possible for Aer Lingus to have this little birdy fitted out for a medevac situation and possibly get some use out of the airframe, rather than having it sitting idle for 6 months?

    Can the A319 even operate from Sligo??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    gatecrash wrote: »
    Can the A319 even operate from Sligo??

    No, and why should Aer Lingus pay to retrofit one of their planes for a service being provided by the state, and then pay for it's staff to be on standby for when its needed, only to pay for all the charges that come with any flight?

    Aer Lingus is not a semi-state company anymore, so the days of Aer Lingus doing jonts around the world at the state's request are long gone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭CaptainSkidmark


    Im sure Aer lingus are not the only ones with a plane hanging around during the night.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    Im sure Aer lingus are not the only ones with a plane hanging around during the night.

    Totally agree.

    But they are the only ones that have an a/c sitting in a hanger and not going to be used for the next 6 months.


    I'm just playing devils advocate here by the way, not at all trying to slate Aer Lingus or Ryanair or any other airline


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    lol, the poor craters....they should all have got 2 weeks holidays, a pay rise and gold stars on their badges.

    disruption allowance? my god, ive heard it all now. unionised farcical company.

    back on topic, i hope the new planes come on board soon and serve some routes that i use.

    What are you on about? that was about the civil service Aer Lingus staff dont get anything like that! And thay dont want it either! Frontline Aer Lingus staff are nothing like the civil service staff !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭Celtic Mech


    gatecrash wrote: »
    Totally agree.

    But they are the only ones that have an a/c sitting in a hanger and not going to be used for the next 6 months.


    I'm just playing devils advocate here by the way, not at all trying to slate Aer Lingus or Ryanair or any other airline


    To shed some light on this...EI do not require the A319 until next summers Schedule. The Aircraft are ex Iberia and they want rid of them basically. The Lease company are leasing the aircraft to Aer Lingus from March 2012 onwards, but the aircraft is to be stored in a hangar as part of the agreement and also EI will be financially compensated for this.
    Bit of a win win situation for EI. Only downside is that it is occupying Hangar space but i think with the Floor size in Hangar 6, EI will Cope!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    To shed some light on this...EI do not require the A319 until next summers Schedule. The Aircraft are ex Iberia and they want rid of them basically. The Lease company are leasing the aircraft to Aer Lingus from March 2012 onwards, but the aircraft is to be stored in a hangar as part of the agreement and also EI will be financially compensated for this.
    Bit of a win win situation for EI. Only downside is that it is occupying Hangar space but i think with the Floor size in Hangar 6, EI will Cope!!

    Thanks for that. Explains why the a/c is sitting idle. Which answers the other question i threw up too! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Delta Kilo


    I have worked in aircraft leasing, and this is a leased in aircraft.

    The A/C is probably on a non operational lease until it goes into active service and being used as what we called a "hot spare" until they include it in their schedule. They would likely be paying a much lower lease rate than if they were using the A/C so in the grand scheme of things its possibly just loose change to them. The lease will change to an operational lease once they start using the A/C and then they will be billed accordingly.

    So jump off the AL bashing for the time being!

    EDIT: Just saw Celtic Mechs post, what he said! Surprised the leasing company gave them the A/C so soon and didnt hold onto it themselves at their housekeeper. Much of a muchness I suppose.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭ohigg84


    Looks beautiful! Very surprised they're getting 319s, never heard any news about that, and my dad works at Flight ops in EI!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Would be nice to see EI diversify their fleet with something smaller to facilitate routes being served with a more than a once-daily frequency or routes that can't support an A320. This lease-in can only work as a stop-gap.

    I know the argument about costs for maintaining more than one fleet type but once that's starts inhibiting expansion or growth you have to ask yourself; is it really worth it?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I know the argument about costs for maintaining more than one fleet type but once that's starts inhibiting expansion or growth you have to ask yourself; is it really worth it?
    The beauty of the A320 family is that the various models don't really suffer too much from the 'multiple types' costs. Consider EI about 10 years ago......they had A320/A321, B734/5, Fokker 50 and Bae146. Now we have the future fllet being A320/A321/A319 and then Regional with their ATR72's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭joegriffinjnr


    Dont forget about the sexy A330,s.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Tenger wrote: »
    The beauty of the A320 family is that the various models don't really suffer too much from the 'multiple types' costs. Consider EI about 10 years ago......they had A320/A321, B734/5, Fokker 50 and Bae146. Now we have the future fllet being A320/A321/A319 and then Regional with their ATR72's.


    Not all at the one time horse..c'mon:eek:


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Not all at the one time horse..c'mon:eek:

    1st A321 arrrived in 1998. 1st A320 in 1999. B737 finally left the fleet in 2003/4. And the Bae146 were definitely there in 2003. Not sure when the F50 were retired though, could well have been pre-2000.

    I read 'Shamrocks from Seattle' a while back. (I think it said this.....)Around 2000 discussions began in relation to streamlining the fleet. EI were looking at either the A320 or the B737NG. B737 seemed an obvious choice with the long history of B737 operation but apparently the strong performance of the A321 and the 1st 4 A320 tilted the decision towards the A320. Thus we see that recent A320 deliveries to EI being a direct result of this.

    Personally I think EI should have introduced the A319 several years ago. Unfortunately they had several years (2005-2009) where they had no-CEO or an inept CEO so no strong decision was made except 'single fleet type'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭David086


    Got this from Twitter:

    Aer Lingus second Airbus A319 EI-EPS is currently being painted in Madrid ex EC-KME Iberia.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    David086 wrote: »
    Got this from Twitter:

    Aer Lingus second Airbus A319 EI-EPS is currently being painted in Madrid ex EC-KME Iberia.
    Who's twitter?


    So there we have our first 2 for EIS from March (EI-EPT and EI-EPS)

    Jethros's is showing the other two for EIS in 2013, I thought they were arriving towards the end of the Summer?

    EDIT: This must be the one that has been in storage at MAD in the all white livery.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭David086


    Tenger wrote: »
    Is this the one that went straight from the factory in Hamburg into storage at MAD or another?

    Not sure, googling the registration shows that it's been around quite a while and delivered to Iberia 25/01/2008.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    So When will the 319's go into service? I heard they will all go to BFS ! Is this true? Was hoping there would be one in ORK and DUB.


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