LUAS green line extension

james no.1

i use the LUAS green line extension and always used the LUAS green line even before the extension, i'm concerned as to the new level of anti-social behaviour on the LUAS post sandyford. the red line always had the bad reputation for being unsafe/anti-social hence the security presence on it. i now fear and realise that the green line extension is almost as bad as it now too requires security. It is obvious that the overwhelming source of this trouble comes from two stops: leopardstown valley and ballyogan wood. there seem to be a permanent presence of young threatening scumbags at these stops who are bringing down the whole service so much so as to put passengers off using the service for safety concerns. i think that the issue would be resolved if the two stops were simply bypassed, its their fault for ruining a super service which is being provided to them on their doorsteps. opinions/comments?

MrStuffins

Can yu explain what it is they've done to be excluded from the service? Other than the fact that you feel slightly threatened?

james no.1

MrStuffins wrote: »

Can yu explain what it is they've done to be excluded from the service? Other than the fact that you feel slightly threatened?

start fights with random people for no reason, verbal abuse, vandalism, general intimidation and anti social behavoiur. the proof is in the pudding, veolia have now hired security for green line extension because of rise in anti social behaviour which they never had on green line before

LXFlyer

STT have been on both lines since they were hired by LUAS - you just may not have seen them.

timelessone

Yeah, I'm with James on this one- there's a whole brood of fat little knackers causing havoc on that stretch, roaring and shouting and causing no end of bother. Hopefully the next cold snap will finish some of the weaker off, with maybe drugs/crime taking care of the rest.

melekalikimaka

same lot that made the 44n a nightmare of a bus

me-skywalker

timelessone wrote: »

Hopefully the next cold snap will finish some of the weaker off, with maybe drugs/crime taking care of the rest.

hahaha too true!

Ive seen these breed myself! Pity!

Cookie_Monster

Can't bypass the stops and have everyone suffer though just cos of a load of knacker kids.

Problem does need to be dealt with and this starts with the Gardai and Luas security taking a hard line with them, not allowing them on trams, clearing them off platforms and regular patrols of the area by AGS to show a presence and intervene when needed.

won't happen though, poor little kids are disadvantaged and it's not their fault :rolleyes:

Richard Hillman

It seems to be a thing do for the kids in the area to hang around the Luas at night time. I have used it 20+ times and have never been asked for my ticket. It seems to be a couple of gangs that hang around the LUAS from a stretch of Ballyogan Wood up to Central Park. Ballyogan is gaining a very bad reputation. Parents with their children conducting anti-social behaviour in the area should be evicted from their council houses.

RosieJoe

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It seems to be a thing do for the kids in the area to hang around the Luas at night time. I have used it 20+ times and have never been asked for my ticket. It seems to be a couple of gangs that hang around the LUAS from a stretch of Ballyogan Wood up to Central Park. Ballyogan is gaining a very bad reputation. Parents with their children conducting anti-social behaviour in the area should be evicted from their council houses.

Ballyogan always had a very bad reputation!

Cathaoirleach

Where are the dodgy estates in Ballyogan? I thought they were mostly middle class. I know there are a good few knackers living in the Cherrywood apartments, which would explain some of the anti social behavior that end.

ted1

Cherrywood is grand. It's the houses directly opposite the stop in ballyogan that's bad.

LXFlyer

There's a council estate on Ballyogan Road that was built in the 1980s which, at the time it was built (and for some significant time later) had no facilities, no footpaths to/from along Ballyogan Road, a very limited bus service. The people were basically dumped there.

It has (like many other similar estates) been a source of anti-social behaviour since it was built, but, again like similar estates, it's a case of "out of sight out of mind" for most people.

It takes something like the new LUAS line to highlight this sort of stuff to the general masses as most people don't know it exists until it impinges on their daily lives.

Similarly I've noticed that on the Dublin Bus website, since central control now have the ability to post on it, there is nearly once a fortnight a notice appearing to the effect that due to anti-social behaviour buses are being withdrawn from estates in certain areas of the city (parts of Finglas, Ballymun and Clondalkin are the more prevalent ones).

Unfortunately as I said society tends to just wipe these problems aside until it starts affecting life in general.

ted1

Bollock you can't blame society for these scum.its simply bad parenting

LXFlyer

What I meant was society tends not to notice....

SerialComplaint

ted1 wrote: »

Bollock you can't blame society for these scum.its simply bad parenting

Have you ever wondered why 'simply bad parenting' tends to be concentrated in areas of low employment, poor quality housing and poor services.

vannie

Write a complaint to info@luas.ie. That's what I've just done...been screamed at one time too many. God forbid you should glance in someones direction.

james no.1

vannie wrote: »

Write a complaint to info@luas.ie. That's what I've just done...been screamed at one time too many. God forbid you should glance in someones direction.

I heard rumours that veolia were thinking of bypassing the ballyogan stop because of the cost of repair for all the vandalism at it

Monty Burnz

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Have you ever wondered why 'simply bad parenting' tends to be concentrated in areas of low employment, poor quality housing and poor services.

Have you ever wondered why people with bad parenting skills tend to be concentrated in areas of low employment, poor quality housing and poor services?

SerialComplaint

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Have you ever wondered why people with bad parenting skills tend to be concentrated in areas of low employment, poor quality housing and poor services?

Maybe you should be asking Ted1, as he's the one that is convinced that 'simply bad parenting' is the root cause.

Tragedy

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Maybe you should be asking Ted1, as he's the one that is convinced that 'simply bad parenting' is the root cause.

Where is the poor quality housing and poor services along the green line extension?

SerialComplaint

Tragedy wrote: »

Where is the poor quality housing and poor services along the green line extension?

Ballyogan

ted1

Same services in ballyogan as in killiney, same houses as any other part if south Dublin.

SerialComplaint

ted1 wrote: »

Same services in ballyogan as in killiney, same houses as any other part if south Dublin.

Fascinating - how many schools are in Ballyogan? How many swimming pools? How many gyms or leisure centres? How many libraries? What public transport did it have for the two decades before the Luas arrived? How many pubs in Ballyogan?

You've clearly not spent much time in Ballyogan.

ted1

SerialComplaint wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Same services in ballyogan as in killiney, same houses as any other part if south Dublin.

Fascinating - how many schools are in Ballyogan? How many swimming pools? How many gyms or leisure centres? How many libraries? What public transport did it have for the two decades before the Luas arrived? How many pubs in Ballyogan?

You've clearly not spent much time in Ballyogan.

I guess you live up to your username...

Seriously how remote do you think ballyogan is. Brennanstown road is not to far away, kilternan and stepaside are further away from services yet they don't produce near as many delinquents.

Stop playing the victim.

Richard Hillman

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Fascinating - how many schools are in Ballyogan? How many swimming pools? How many gyms or leisure centres? How many libraries? What public transport did it have for the two decades before the Luas arrived? How many pubs in Ballyogan?

You've clearly not spent much time in Ballyogan.

Apart from public transport, Killiney has the same level or even less local facilities that Ballyogan.

Tragedy

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Fascinating - how many schools are in Ballyogan? How many swimming pools? How many gyms or leisure centres? How many libraries? What public transport did it have for the two decades before the Luas arrived? How many pubs in Ballyogan?

You've clearly not spent much time in Ballyogan.

How many schools in Knocklyon?(Up to 6 or 7 years ago - one primary school, one small gaelscoil run out of prefabs, and no secondary school). How many swimming pools?(None) How many gyms(none) or leisure centres(none)? How many libraries(none)? What public transport did it have? (One bus route)

I'm sorry, but I don't know all that many middle class areas in Dublin that have great houses and great facilities. I was raised in the same kind of cramped 3bed semi that is fairly typical around South Dublin - including Ballyogan.

square leg

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Fascinating - how many schools are in Ballyogan? How many swimming pools? How many gyms or leisure centres? How many libraries? What public transport did it have for the two decades before the Luas arrived? How many pubs in Ballyogan?

You've clearly not spent much time in Ballyogan.

I live in the Gallops - right beside Ballyogan and we have none of the above except Ballyogan has a pub. You are really talking through your a**e. I have seen babies carried into Molloys at 9.55 by their mum as she buys a crate of beer. I was on a bus once with a group 18 year old mothers pissed out of their heads with their kids at 11 at night. I have seen kids as young as 4 playing unsupervised. Don't give me this left-wing **** - social welfare culture is very harmful for society. Getting the luas home is not fun especially if the lads from St Tiernans are on board. Anti-social behavior cannot be excused under any circumstances.

SerialComplaint

square leg wrote: »

I live in the Gallops - right beside Ballyogan and we have none of the above except Ballyogan has a pub. You are really talking through your a**e. I have seen babies carried into Molloys at 9.55 by their mum as she buys a crate of beer. I was on a bus once with a group 18 year old mothers pissed out of their heads with their kids at 11 at night. I have seen kids as young as 4 playing unsupervised. Don't give me this left-wing **** - social welfare culture is very harmful for society. Getting the luas home is not fun especially if the lads from St Tiernans are on board. Anti-social behavior cannot be excused under any circumstances.

And why do you think this kind of behaviour is more common in Ballyogan than the Gallops?

square leg

Simply parents are more responsible - that is not to say there is a bit of kids will be kids. But you would never see very young kids completely unsupervised etc.
There are a host of other reasons as you know but in the end whats happens in Ballyogan is a product of a welfare culture that has patently failed.

Cookie_Monster

SerialComplaint wrote: »

And why do you think this kind of behaviour is more common in Ballyogan than the Gallops?

the social divide

SerialComplaint

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the social divide

I genuinely don't understand what this means. Would you care to expand?

square leg wrote: »

Simply parents are more responsible -

And why are parents in the Gallops more responsible than parents in Ballyogan?

LXFlyer

To put it in simple language, Ballyogan estate was built in the late 1980s as a council estate in the middle of nowhere, with zero facilities and not even a footpath along Ballyogan Road, which was a narrow road with a lot of traffic on it.

A sizeable number of single parent families were housed there. While not passing sweeping judgment on everyone in such circumstances, that in itself was a recipe for problems.

The reality is the various social problems that have blighted every other similar area with high unemployment have always affected Ballyogan. There used to be problems with the 44 bus with damage being some to vehicles. As in most of these cases a minority causes trouble for the majority.

Larbre34

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand what this means. Would you care to expand?

And why are parents in the Gallops more responsible than parents in Ballyogan?

Right let's take it nice and slow

The parents in the Gallops own their own homes, are more likely to be in work earning their own money and concious of the value of it, are more responsible for themselves, their kids and others and likely have a sense of shame when their families behave badly and let them down, so they make the effort to minimise that and address it when it happens. Their community means something to them, they like to live in a well kept a neighbourhood with like minded people, and value their security and their peace.

The parents in Ballyogan are living in social housing granted to them, more likely to be long term unemployed and living on benefits which land into their accounts every week for no effort from them, giving them plenty of time to do as they please, and to let their kids do likewise. They havent invested anything in their community to live there so it doesnt bother them greatly what happens to it, or what their kids do to it, or how they behave in it. The only thing that exercises them, is when some authority figure pulls them up about the behaviour of their kids on the Luas, on the street, in the shops, in school - at which point they call them a fascist, racist, pen pusher, pig and cry blue murder to the unfortunate housing officers and estate managers for discriminating against them

Now you know and I know neither of the above situations are absolutes - you really do get good and bad everywhere. However if you ask genuinely stupid questions like that, you are genuinely going to get sweeping generalisations for your answer.....

SerialComplaint

Larbre34 wrote: »

The parents in Ballyogan are living in social housing granted to them, more likely to be long term unemployed

And why do you think that parents in Ballyogan are more likely to be long term unemployed?

Larbre34

SerialComplaint wrote: »

And why do you think that parents in Ballyogan are more likely to be long term unemployed?

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

Or it could just be a sweeping generalisation in response to your genuine lack of understanding

uch

Larbre34 wrote: »

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

Or it could just be a sweeping generalisation in response to your genuine lack of understanding

Sorry for offtopic post but can you post a link, curious to look at some of these stats

SerialComplaint

Larbre34 wrote: »

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

I'm not questioning that unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan. I'm questioning WHY unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan?

Fight_Night

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I'm not questioning that unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan. I'm questioning WHY unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan?

Because they are council estates. Ballyogan has the same problems as any rough council estate in North Dublin.

SerialComplaint

Fight_Night wrote: »

Because they are council estates.

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Brasso

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Cycle of poverty in a way, not being born into a working/educated family environment makes it more difficult to get a job due to less exposure to education and work. In many of these houses college or futher education wouldn't be seen as a natural progression from school. Many children go on to work in a family business, the same can be the case here except the "family business" is long term unemployment.

grimm2005

I got the Luas from Cherrywood to Stephens green in the morning and back in the evenings nearly everyday for a month (i stopped as I found a quicker and easier way to get where I needed to go) and still do every now and then and have never had any trouble let alone as much as seems to be highlighted in this thread. Sure, you get the odd annoying people but nowhere near the level of the red line, bus or even the Dart for that matter. I've also been on the red line quite a bit and it is much much worse then the green line when it comes to undesirables so to say it's as bad as the red line is simply untrue.

Big Nasty

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Because if Leonardo De Vinci was born in Ballyogan he would have had his paint brush taken from him, got a smack and told not to be such a sissy and get out and play in the traffic. :pac:

Fight_Night

grimm2005 wrote: »

I got the Luas from Cherrywood to Stephens green in the morning and back in the evenings nearly everyday for a month (i stopped as I found a quicker and easier way to get where I needed to go) and still do every now and then and have never had any trouble let alone as much as seems to be highlighted in this thread. Sure, you get the odd annoying people but nowhere near the level of the red line, bus or even the Dart for that matter. I've also been on the red line quite a bit and it is much much worse then the green line when it comes to undesirables so to say it's as bad as the red line is simply untrue.

Nowhere near Red line level but unless you go at the quietest time ever there is usually a few groups of intimidating teenagers/young adults around Ballyogan and the surrounding stops. I get the dart regularly and never run into any trouble. The fact that you can essentially ride the LUAS for free probably attracts more scumbags.

Richard Hillman

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Less ambition. I have relatives, former neighbours and former schoolmates living in Ballyogan that used to live close to me. Everyone from my area that applies for social housing goes to Ballyogan. They all dropped out of school early under no pressure, took up working in low skilled jobs and had children at a young age.

They didnt have the same ambition and drive to avail of the opportunites available to other people that lived in the area and went to the same schools.

This is all before they availed of social housing in Ballyogan and the cycle of less ambition will probably continue for their kids.

jaspertheghost

hi all, is anyone here actually from ballyogan??? was offered a house there and was wondering wether to take it or not.

Fight_Night

jaspertheghost wrote: »

hi all, is anyone here actually from ballyogan??? was offered a house there and was wondering wether to take it or not.

Hey saw your post in After Hours.

It's not as bad as areas of Tallaght but it is a rough council estate and has quite a bad reputation around here. I went to primary school with a lot of lads from Ballyogan so I would've spent a fair bit of time there as a child, very rough in my experience lots of teenagers causing trouble, saw someone drop a brick down from a bridge onto a mainroad full of cars. Much rougher than where I lived(Sandyford). Now with that said, it's possible to live a happy life there and there's still plenty of nice people there, but you(or perhaps more importantly your kids) will probably run into a bit of trouble is all I'm saying.

alphabeat

we need to have mandatory gas chambers between central park and ballyogan , or just nuke the whole estate


from ballyogan to dundrum has become a knackfest from 3 pm onwards.

Mrsbananas

This thread is laughable.
The intimidating 'gangs' from ballyogan that are spoken of here are kids no older than 15, bored out of their minds I imagine!
I'd be far more intimadated by the crowds that hang out at the playground in belarmine and around the shops and behind the trees in sandy ford hall!

jaspertheghost

i agree mrs b, total over hype about this place,moved here a couple of weeks ago and its been a grand place so far,neighbours are all lovely ,kids get on grand here,heard a lot of bad things about the place before the place but think its been from people who dont even live around here....

Monty Burnz

jaspertheghost wrote: »

i agree mrs b, total over hype about this place,moved here a couple of weeks ago and its been a grand place so far,neighbours are all lovely ,kids get on grand here,heard a lot of bad things about the place before the place but think its been from people who dont even live around here....

Perhaps Ballyogan is an exporter of trouble?