Adamstown

deanbert

Hi guys,
My partner and myself are first time buyers and are looking to buy in Adamstown(we've been renting here for a number of years so please, no comments telling us to "avoid it like the plague" as I have seen on other posts)... We were wondering has anyone recently bought in the adamstown area and if so how much did they get off the asking price. The house we were looking at is not actually built yet, the developer is going on a buy one build one basis at the moment. They are looking for 250,000 in the Paddocks area. We were talking to the EA and they said that the developer would not budge much on the price, but im assuming that this is usual EA etiquette. Would anyone have any advice on a decent offer? I wouldnt like to insult them or waste any time with an offer that they wouldnt even second guess, but at the same time i dont want to find out down the line that I paid 10 or 20 grand more than my neighbour. Any advice is greatly appreciated

deanbert

Sorry. I forgot to mention it is a 3 bedroom town house w/study room, and the EA said that they had it valued at the price given

D3PO

your considering buying off plans.......

Oh sweet jesus welcome to 2006

TwoShedsJackson

If you buy off the plans in this day and age, you are insane. If you want to buy somewhere in Adamstown, do it in an established area (and in a house that's been built), and accept you won't be moving for at least a decade.

ricman

i see no reason to buy off plans,theres loads of 4 bed houses ,or houses with study, 2 front rooms if thats what you want.
Safer to buy in established area ,with good green space,acess to shops,bus route ,trains,etc Its a buyers market,
people used to buy off plans, to get a fixed price, in 2005 prices were rising fast,its a buyers market.I,d be fearful of buying in a new estate now,
some houses could be bought up by council or investors,,its just risky .
and theres plenty of houses going for sale in quiet estates,look for a large garden or new kitchen .
i cant think of 1 reason to buy off plans in 2011.Its easy to convert a bedroom into a study.
or just buy an older house in adamstown,or nearby.

smelltheglove

Im in Lucan myself, I dont think there is much budging with the developers up there, considering the amount of money they made on the area I doubt they are begging for buyers, having said that, there are also a few for sale privately up there so I would urge you to consider that. As a daft addict there are houses in Lucan that have been for sale for a year or more, there is a huge choice you can have your pick off, my honest opinion is that as soon as you buy a newly built house there it will devalue the day you have moved in. People are finding it hard to sell there for a reason, I know you live there and you love it so look there I just dont think a new build is the best bet.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=599187

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=585549

the_syco

deanbert wrote: »

The house we were looking at is not actually built yet, the developer is going on a buy one build one basis at the moment. They are looking for 250,000 in the Paddocks area.

Look into how secure the builder is. Check if they have any unsold houses on the market, and also what happens if he goes bust half way through your build...

ricman

Its just risky buying off the plans, there have been cases where the builder could not sell half the houses in an estate,so he sold 20 or thirty to the local authority,some of the previous owners were not happy about this.Theres a previous post on this forum, re local authority buying houses in some estates.
If you buy in an older estate ,at least you know what you are getting.ie dont buy in an estate where 20 per cent of the houses or unoccuppied,up for sale.

Raskolnikov

There's nothing wrong with Adamstown per se, build quality is in fairness very good and there is no anti-social element. However, the prices are in cloud cuckoo-land. Why would you pay €250k for a house in Adamstown when there are loads and loads of houses just around the corner in Lucan selling for €200k?

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=445182
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=585191
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=546579
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=585780

Treehouse72

OP, can you get a mortgage for €250,000 for an off-plan property in Adamstown?

Lyn256

Hi Deanbert

I'm looking to buy in Lucan (4 bed rather than 3 bed) and have to agree that €250k is mad money for a 3 bed ANYWHERE in Lucan or Adamstown. There's lots of houses asking around the €200k (and priced at that point for a while)
If I was buying off plans with a view that the property would be ready in 6/12 months time - the max that I would be willing to pay would be €150k.
The average asking price for a 3 bed semi in Lucan this time last year was €260k-€280k. Right now most properties are clustered around the €200-€220 asking.
That's a drop of over 20%-give it another year and prices will prob be in the €150k-€170k if not lower.
Again I agree with other posters-there's lots of nice well established estates with 3 bed semi's at much better prices
Just my tuppence worth!!

deanbert

Whats wrong with buying off plans? As I said im a first time buyer so im not very clued in on this kinda thing

deanbert

ricman wrote: »

i see no reason to buy off plans,theres loads of 4 bed houses ,or houses with study, 2 front rooms if thats what you want.
Safer to buy in established area ,with good green space,acess to shops,bus route ,trains,etc Its a buyers market,
people used to buy off plans, to get a fixed price, in 2005 prices were rising fast,its a buyers market.I,d be fearful of buying in a new estate now,
some houses could be bought up by council or investors,,its just risky .
and theres plenty of houses going for sale in quiet estates,look for a large garden or new kitchen .
i cant think of 1 reason to buy off plans in 2011.Its easy to convert a bedroom into a study.
or just buy an older house in adamstown,or nearby.

The reason for wanting to buy is because we fell in love with this style of house when we went to see the showhouse. We went to see the other 4 beds in adamstown and although they are quite nice, they havent a patch on the townhouse. We also went to see a lot of houses in lucan and werent at all sold, and with a new build you get the 10 year homebond guarantee if anything was to go wrong it would be fixed without charge, where as with a second hand house you can never be to sure of any little problems that lurk around the corner

TommyTippee

deanbert wrote: »

The reason for wanting to buy is because we fell in love with this style of house when we went to see the showhouse.

You're a builder's dream. Pay what ever they want.

You must have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. I cannot believe the stuff you are coming out with, but for your ignorance you deserve to make a massive mistake.

deanbert

TommyTippee wrote: »

You're a builder's dream. Pay what ever they want.

You must have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. I cannot believe the stuff you are coming out with, but for your ignorance you deserve to make a massive mistake.

There's always one. As per usual on forums every comment runs risk of meeting a prick like yourself. I probably should have specified no time wasters in the title

The_Conductor

deanbert wrote: »

The reason for wanting to buy is because we fell in love with this style of house when we went to see the showhouse. We went to see the other 4 beds in adamstown and although they are quite nice, they havent a patch on the townhouse. We also went to see a lot of houses in lucan and werent at all sold, and with a new build you get the 10 year homebond guarantee if anything was to go wrong it would be fixed without charge, where as with a second hand house you can never be to sure of any little problems that lurk around the corner

Deanbert-

Homebond genuinely isn't worth the paper its written on. Do you know anyone who has successfully claimed under homebond? I know only a handful- and the process was so onerous, it wasn't worth their sanity.

In the current market- it makes no sense whatsoever to fall in love with a particular house or house type. So what that its an absolutely beautiful design etc- a couple of doors over will be for sale sooner or later- at significantly less than you are able to buy this for. Look at the recent shrill press releases from the CIF- condemning private sales at below the cost of building. Tough titties.

Will you get a discount on the 250k the developer is seeking in Adamstown- in all honesty- most probably not, as in, no discount at all...... The builder is presuming that he/she can build these to order at price x, and tough on anyone else. Well- they can. There are no shortage of unemployed construction workers nationally- and the developers in Adamstown are under no pressure whatsoever to build- contrary to the state of the property market- you really don't have any bargaining chip with them.......

I have a few big reasons why I wouldn't want to buy there-

1. Its a leasehold not a freehold property- you will be liable to management charges forever after
2. Look at the CSO demographics for the area, schools are going to be a massive issue in 3-4 years time
3. Interest rates are due to increase again next week
4. You're buying into a falling market- on current trends falls are about 13% per annum for 2011
5. Any leasehold property is falling about 50% faster than freehold property
6. Property prices elsewhere in Lucan are a barometer for Adamstown- and you will get a 3 bed in prestigious estates in Lucan for a hell of a lot less than this (look at Laraghcon for example).
7. Property tax and water charges
8. South Dublin County Council (anyone unfortunate enough to live in the council area will know what I'm talking about :mad::mad::mad:)

Falling in love with a particular property- or property type- is the biggest mistake you've made so far- don't compound it by following through with a wholly unrealistic idea of what its worth now or in the future.

Get onto one of the banks- get a list of their approved valuers for Adamstown (I know McDonald Brothers in the village are on Bank of Ireland's list)- and give them a copy of the plans and ask them to value it. Then have a meeting with the mortgage advisor and see how you can finance this. The days of 100% mortgages are long gone- a 3 bed townhouse in Adamstown is classified as an apartment for mortgage purposes, you might get an 80% mortgage (which would be reasonable on the part of a lender)- however the mortgage is based on their valuation of the property- not on the price the developer wants for it- or what you're willing to pay for it. Regardless of whether you're happy to pay 250k for it- if the bank values it at 150k (based on recent sales in the area)- you will only get 80% of the 150k from them- so you *need* to get this valued by an approved valuer.......

Treehouse72

^^ OP, that terrific post shows why you need to rethink your whole approach to this.

TommyTippee

deanbert wrote: »

There's always one. As per usual on forums every comment runs risk of meeting a prick like yourself. I probably should have specified no time wasters in the title

The only person wasting time on this thread is you, you ignorant

deanbert wrote:

prick

not even wrong

deanbert wrote: »

and with a new build you get the 10 year homebond guarantee if anything was to go wrong it would be fixed without charge, where as with a second hand house you can never be to sure of any little problems that lurk around the corner

Yeah you should ask these poor sods how their homebond guarantee worked out for them.

some people had been quoted between €40,000 and €80,000 for the work needed to repair their homes but had been offered €8,000 or €9,000 by the insurer.

John Mason

as someone who worked in the commerical legal end of conveyance for most the tiger - Homebond is worthless.

make sure you have good solid house insurance, and pray that they pay out on any problems you may come across and trust me, you will be plauged to death with problems on a new build - mainly water leaks.

buy a house that has been built and lived in for 5 years min. all the problems and kinks will have been sorted out by that stage.

but buying off the plans is completely off the wall in this day and age.

deanbert

smccarrick thank you for your very insightful comment. It has really given me some food for thought.


And as for TommyTippee. Why dont you do everyone here a favour and unfollow this thread. Your comments are of absolutely no use. If you could take the time to read a few of the previous comments you will see what being helpfull really is. You are wasting my time and your own on here


....and also a big thank you to everybody else who took the time to lend their advice. It is greatly appreciated

djmcr

TommyTippee wrote: »

You're a builder's dream. Pay what ever they want.

You must have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. I cannot believe the stuff you are coming out with, but for your ignorance you deserve to make a massive mistake.

Very helpful

The_Conductor

Ok guys, lets calm down.

RasTa

Sorry but the OP deserves the harsh comments imo, he was the one who started name calling.

The_Conductor

I don't care.
If you want to start- or continue- flinging remarks at one another- take it elsewhere. This is not an appropriate venue.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

Victor

deanbert wrote: »

Whats wrong with buying off plans? As I said im a first time buyer so im not very clued in on this kinda thing

Buying off the plans means paying today's price for a product in the future. This doesn't make sense (a) in a falling market (b) when many builders and developers have financial problems (c) when there are 300,000 vacant properties.

Calina

deanbert wrote: »

Whats wrong with buying off plans? As I said im a first time buyer so im not very clued in on this kinda thing

I am a first time buyer so that's actually not an excuse for not being very clued in.

Over the course of the property boom, people who bought off plans were plagued with myriad issues such as mystery moving completion dates, and severe hassle getting snaglists completed. These are only the most obvious problems and I'm pretty sure if you go back along in this forum you will find a number of people with complaints and difficulties linked to purchasing off plans. I remember people being very unhappy about differences in floor area between show houses and the units they purchased from plans, for example.

In my view, purchasing off plans has never been particularly sensible. For something that costs as much as a house does, for the most part, I'd like to see it built before I get myself into a contract that I can barely get out of. For the most part, I've never felt that a contract to buy from plans was particularly in favour of the purchaser - you can see this in the large number of cases where people were forced to complete on properties whose value had collapsed during construction, for example.

You mention Homebond. It's not enough of a guarantee for me, I'm afraid and I would be loath to rely on it. I've always felt that you have more protection buying a loaf of bread in Tesco than you do buying any unit off plans.

I'd also add that it is dangerous to become emotionally attached to something you do not yet own. I haven't examined Adamstown in any great deal howeve the design and layout of the vast majority of three and four bedroomed terraced/town/semiD houses in this country is largely of one variety.

As a result, I would attach more importance to what you can do to a house rather than individual design elements.

Me personally I wouldn't do it. I don't know how many - if any - houses are for sale in Adamstown at the moment, but locking yourself into a price on an asset of sliding value is of questionable financial prudence.

RasTa

Anyway I hope you now have learned that you would be in sane to buy off plans for reasons as stated above.

You would get better value for your 250k in Lucan I think but better off waiting until next year.

bakubaku1

Hi,
We were looking on Adamstown area last week , contacted EA and he offered 155k for 3 bed duplex in Adamstown Avenue. It is 2&3 level apartment. 97sq.m.
Is that good value for that price?, and is adamstown still half empty development. THANKS FOR REPLAYS

bakubaku1

HI,

Was speaking with EA last weekand and asking price for 3 bed duplex is 155K.
Was just wandering how low price will go before end of year on this type of apartments.

wexford12

OP If you buy off plans it would be a car crash waiting to happen. High chance of living in a ghost estate with half finished houses like every other or maybe worse estate that has been walked away from.
Why oh why would anyone even look at this and I am surprised that a bank will lend on a new build estate how can they put a value on it if all the houses arn't built or sold yet. If the estate has 50 houses even how do you know that only 5 might be sold.

Victor

bakubaku1, the price you pay is largely for you and your bank to decide.

wexford12 wrote: »

OP If you buy off plans it would be a car crash waiting to happen. High chance of living in a ghost estate with half finished houses like every other or maybe worse estate that has been walked away from.
Why oh why would anyone even look at this and I am surprised that a bank will lend on a new build estate how can they put a value on it if all the houses arn't built or sold yet. If the estate has 50 houses even how do you know that only 5 might be sold.

At the present time (not 5 years ago), if you buy off the plans, how would you end up in a ghost estate?

Sure, the area hasn't developed as the developers would have liked, but it doesn't seem to have mass vacancies like in some rural areas. It does however have two primary schools, a secondary school, shops, a train station, bus services and a good road network. The common areas are well kept. Hardly a ghost estate.

Do you even know the area? http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Adamstown,+South+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.337833,-6.455589&spn=0.025983,0.084543&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=6.644571,21.643066&oq=adams&hnear=Adamstown,+County+South+Dublin&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.337833,-6.455589&panoid=SfJ_RDY0v4XY53MeW1xXbw&cbp=12,266.89,,0,2.92

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Adamstown,+South+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.3376,-6.457064&spn=0.00296,0.021136&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=6.644571,21.643066&oq=adams&hnear=Adamstown,+County+South+Dublin&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.337595,-6.457055&panoid=jmBxJ8yVxEaMWdcz8UgJnQ&cbp=11,121.16,,0,3.29

The_Conductor

There are other parts of 'New Lucan' with far higher levels of vacant property and burgeoning antisocial behaviour, than Adamstown. As Victor says, its far from a ghost estate, and by one significant measure, the percentage of property that is owner-occupied- as opposed to rented out, its getting significantly better as time goes by.

How low will prices fall? I'm sorry, my crystal ball is foggy this morning. Apartments and managed units have taken the largest hit of any property type- and continue to fall. Houses, in mature areas, with family friendly features (such as a small garden)- may have stabilised somewhat in a Dublin context (and curiously enough Clare too), but elsewhere nationwide they are continuing to fall, albeit not as quickly as apartments and managed units.

If you compare Irish prices (current) with international prices- we are still at least 20% above our foreign peers (though the impending property tax, water rates and proposed residential tax- will doubtless knock our prices back significantly). This is factored into mortgage lending where lenders (if you can find one) are now demanding a deposit of 20% for most property.

Do they have the likelihood to fall further in price- economic fundamentals and new property and residential based taxes coming down the road- would state a definite yes. How much- who knows?

engineermike

Homebond & premier bond - these are a boom time marketing exercise. The bond amount taken from builders is not in line with the remuneration required by homeowners with serious building defects X the no. of poorly built houses in the current stock.

Also can I mention, if there ever was a thread in dire need of moderation....

Mike F

wexford12

Victor wrote:

At the present time (not 5 years ago), if you buy off the plans, how would you end up in a ghost estate?

Sure, the area hasn't developed as the developers would have liked, but it doesn't seem to have mass vacancies like in some rural areas. It does however have two primary schools, a secondary school, shops, a train station, bus services and a good road network. The common areas are well kept. Hardly a ghost estate.

A ghost estate does not have to have waste land or half finished houses in it to be classed as one. I live in an estate that has 50 houses and about 12 that were built painted lawns laid etc. Now we still have 12 houses with over growen gardens and smashed windows, lead flashing stolen and the wire ripped out of the walls inside.

Give me a finished fully sold estate any day. Yes they might all get sold and there will be no problems but its a huge gamble

The_Conductor

wexford12 wrote: »

A ghost estate does not have to have waste land or half finished houses in it to be classed as one. I live in an estate that has 50 houses and about 12 that were built painted lawns laid etc. Now we still have 12 houses with over growen gardens and smashed windows, lead flashing stolen and the wire ripped out of the walls inside.

Give me a finished fully sold estate any day. Yes they might all get sold and there will be no problems but its a huge gamble

The big difference between your description and the likes of Adamstown- is location. Adamstown may end up as a socially deprived area (a significant portion of the homes are either rented out, or were purchased on shared ownership schemes), and akin to elsewhere in the country, unemployment is an issue. Adamstown was built with some previous developments, notably Tallaght, in mind- which was massively overdeveloped in the 70s/80s without the provision of facilities and amenities- an effort which they tried to make in this instance.

Adamstown is not a rural estate- and while its vacancy rates may be creeping upwards- it is almost fully sold, and very well occupied.

Yes- it, along with many other developments, are in retrospect probably not what should have been allowed happen- Adamstown is not however at any risk of becoming a ghost estate- aside from any other factors- because of its location.

who_ru

Hi all,

i am thinking of booking a viewing of a 2 bed apt in Adamstown Square.

for those in the know, or who live in the area, are there any issues that i should be aware of before viewing. anti-social behaviour, yearly fees with the complex etc?

thanks in advance.

andresapitt

Hi, I am looking myself to move to Adamstown, did you ever buy the house in the end? if so, how did it go?

hlarsson7

Hi Andresapitt,

I bought up in Adamstown a few years ago. Like many new developments it has it's pros and cons.I think it intitally appealed to buyers as it was the only thing they could afford in the Dublin region at that price range. The market has changed now, you can now get a detached house for the same price, instead of ending up in a Duplex apartment with somebodys living room directly above your bedroom. The ground floor Duplex I live in has poor soundproofing and it doesn't help when your neighbour above has wooden floor and surround sound.
The development has no immediate green areas for kids to play in, So you will find the kids playing between the parked cars, it's only a matter of time before a serious accident occrus. Parking is a major headache as well as there is no designated parking for your car, The underground car parks are not used so everyone just parks where they want.
The developers look to have abandonded the plans they had laid for the development of the area, so it's anybody guess what will happen. Already a prefabbed School has appeared and also there is plans to throw in more social housing into Adamstown, although the area currently has no social problems it is only a few years away.