Melbourne vs Sydney

Humble Spud

Hi All,

I have decided to make the move to Oz however I have a bit of a dilemma. I will be making the move with a few friends and we have initially decided to try Sydney (I have yet to book flights).

However I may have just secured a 12 month position in Melbourne. The position looks interesting and the salary is competitive (I am an accountant). However the company cannot guarantee that the contract will be extended after the 12months, but from speaking with them and looking at the economy out there at the moment I feel it is likely that it would be extended, all things going well!!

Here is my dilemma:
1) Do I go to Melbourne on my own instead of Sydney? (I dont know anyone in Melbourne but am relatively outgoing and sporty). Is Melbourne a nicer city?

2) I am under 30yrs so I will probably go on a working holiday visa. Is there a 12 month sponsored visa I could get instead of me using my WHV? I would try and get the company to sponsor me if there was.

Thanks in advance,
Humble Spud

mandrake04

Hi Humble Spud there is a 6 month limit with an employer on WHV.

You could get employer sponsored on a 457 which can give you a working visa between 1 day and 4 years.

Have a read of this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056170937

Humble Spud

mandrake04 wrote: »

Hi Humble Spud there is a 6 month limit with an employer on WHV.

You could get employer sponsored on a 457 which can give you a working visa between 1 day and 4 years.

Have a read of this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056170937

Hi mandrake04

Thanks for your comment, yes I am aware of the 6 month limit and I suppose this is another question I need to ask. I am also aware of the 457 sponsored visa but I am guessing that there would need to be a significant payment for this visa and seen as the company cannot give a guarantee on an extension to 12months they would be reluctant to go for this option. I just thought that there might be a similar visa but for 1yr only....obviously not.

Thanks again
HS

Mellor

Humble Spud wrote: »

Hi mandrake04

Thanks for your comment, yes I am aware of the 6 month limit and I suppose this is another question I need to ask. I am also aware of the 457 sponsored visa but I am guessing that there would need to be a significant payment for this visa and seen as the company cannot give a guarantee on an extension to 12months they would be reluctant to go for this option. I just thought that there might be a similar visa but for 1yr only....obviously not.

Thanks again
HS

You appear to have taken Mandrake up wrong.

The cost for a 457 for the company is $485 ($405+$80)
If they have sponsored somebody in the last 3 years then the cost is only $80

The cost for you is $305

This imo is not a significant cost.


As for the length of visa, 4 years is the maximum. But if the position is only 12 months there is no problem in applying for 12 months only. Personally I would put down 4yrs just in case an extension came up.

I don't know why you think they would be reluctant to go for the 4 year option. They are not under any obligation to keep you employed. If there is no more work after 12 months, then you simply leave the company and try to find a new sponsor or go home. (even home for a holiday and return on a WHV)

Humble Spud

Ah ok...didnt realise it was that cheap, thought it would be a lot more expensive...thanks Mellor.

I have since learned that the company would actually get some sort of visa for me which would mean I would not have to use my WHV....just wondering though, what happens if I leave the company within the visa period? Would I have to leave the country straight away?

Also anyone got any thoughts on living in Melbourne Vs Sydney? I know people compare it to Galway Vs Dublin. Is Melbourne handy to do on your own i.e. gettin accom, gettin around, meetin people etc?

Munster_Gal

there seems to be loads of us here on boards who are moving or have moved to Melbourne so you'll be in great company

greenline

Humble Spud wrote: »

Also anyone got any thoughts on living in Melbourne Vs Sydney? I know people compare it to Galway Vs Dublin. Is Melbourne handy to do on your own i.e. gettin accom, gettin around, meetin people etc?

Hadn't heard that one! Both cities are much larger than Dublin and don't have much in common with either Dublin or Galway, in my experience.

I find Sydney more "American" and Melbourne more "European". People tend to have strong views that their city is better so you wont get much objectivity. I love the harbour etc in Sydney but I find the rest of it rather brash and soulless to be honest (I know lots of people will disagree with me on that one) Melbourne has worse weather in winter, but, imo, better culture and, again in my opinion, more interesting places to visit easily (I love Victoria)

Both are great cities- I think your real question is whether you want to go it alone or stick with your mates. I would not want to be unemployed in Sydney but I guess you'll get a job there if you try. Do your friends have accommodation lined up?

Mellor

Humble Spud wrote: »

Ah ok...didnt realise it was that cheap, thought it would be a lot more expensive...thanks Mellor.

I have since learned that the company would actually get some sort of visa for me which would mean I would not have to use my WHV....just wondering though, what happens if I leave the company within the visa period? Would I have to leave the country straight away?

Also anyone got any thoughts on living in Melbourne Vs Sydney? I know people compare it to Galway Vs Dublin. Is Melbourne handy to do on your own i.e. gettin accom, gettin around, meetin people etc?

If you leave the company when sponsored you have 28days to find a new sponsor or leave the country.


As for Melbourne v Sydney, peopel tend to prefer one or the other, but you won't know until you get here. Most people haven't lived in both cities for long enough to actually have a valid opinion

The Sweeper

Weather is better in Sydney. Melbourne to me has a smaller, more homely, more arty feel. It also doesn't have the massive central focus that Sydney has, provided by the opera house and the harbours. (Federation Square just doesn't cut it.) I think Melbourne is a more 'accessible' place to live - and by that I mean in terms of renting a place, getting a job, being able to afford rental accommodation that doesn't bankrupt you and isn't the size of a shoebox, so on. It's also - again to me - easier to get out of Melbourne to do long weekends or day trips - Great Ocean Road, Goldfields, Skiing. Sydney does of course have the Blue Mountains but I feel like the drive out to them is hellish compared to Melbourne, where once you're on the non-CBD side of the ringroad you basically won't encounter 'traffic' of any weight.

Saying that, I also feel there's more to do in Sydney than there is in Melbourne, just in terms of your broke-as backpacker lifestyle - there's more to wander about and see in Sydney, more places to sit and chill out and enjoy the view for hours, so on.

ammo123

greenline wrote: »

Hadn't heard that one! Both cities are much larger than Dublin and don't have much in common with either Dublin or Galway, in my experience.

I find Sydney more "American" and Melbourne more "European". People tend to have strong views that their city is better so you wont get much objectivity. I love the harbour etc in Sydney but I find the rest of it rather brash and soulless to be honest (I know lots of people will disagree with me on that one) Melbourne has worse weather in winter, but, imo, better culture and, again in my opinion, more interesting places to visit easily (I love Victoria)

Both are great cities- I think your real question is whether you want to go it alone or stick with your mates. I would not want to be unemployed in Sydney but I guess you'll get a job there if you try. Do your friends have accommodation lined up?

I totally agree with this assessment.

Melbourne seems to have just as much to offer as Sydney but is more pleasant (imo) and easier to get around.

The girl I was travelling with decided to stay on in Sydney and I came on to Melbourne on my own, we have both coped really well on our own, eventhough we were a bit apprehensive about it at first, and have met people easily enough.

Having said that she came down to visit me lately and loved Melbourne so much that she is now looking into moving here in a few months!

jank

Melbourne and Sydney both have their pros and cons.
Sydney, better weather, more beautiful (harbour, water), beaches, more jobs, better pay, better history, older, better night-life...
Melbourne to me is more Australian then sydney, more laid back and has an easy air to the place, better transport, more cultural (tbh though not too much between them), nice city from a building point of view...

Cons well Sydney is more brash and aggressive, looks a bit more run down than melbourne, transport not as good, more backpackers, more crowded...
Melbourne, well weather is COOOLD! shockingly cold compared to sydney in winter, a little bit up its own arse and if you are looking for a pub to show a match on 1am on a Sunday night....forget it!!

Saying all that I am in sydney going on 18 months now and when the PR comes through next year we (me and the GF) might pack up and move down there. Sydney gets to you, too busy sometimes! However, both are very good places to live. A quick trip back to Ireland shows you what both places have to offer!

lg123

the worst thing about melb is the weather, its shocking.

Munster_Gal

awe don't say the weather is horrible... i've been all excited about getting there!!!!

Ciderswigger

jank wrote: »

a little bit up its own arse and if you are looking for a pub to show a match on 1am on a Sunday night....forget it!!

Not at all. Plenty of places. Many I night I watched the rugby/hurling at 1/2am.

IMO Melb was the better city. The weather can get a bit colder than Sydney but I still loved it. Sydney was a bit snotty and we always felt that we had to be well dressed to go out. In Melbourne we often would go out for a few beers at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and end up in pubs till late at night. In Sydney, we were told our clothes were not acceptable! (jeans and a tshirt, not like we were sporting shorts, flip flops and a sports jersey!)

I found Melb to be more laid back and the transport was crackin' which is handy for doing the touristy spots.

All in all, this was my opinion and others will differ. But flights are cheap and you can easily up sticks and try the other city. Enjoy Oz and if you hit Melbourne be sure to pop into The Poet for a pint and a packet of Chipsticks.

jank

Ciderswigger wrote: »

Not at all. Plenty of places. Many I night I watched the rugby/hurling at 1/2am.

IMO Melb was the better city. The weather can get a bit colder than Sydney but I still loved it. Sydney was a bit snotty and we always felt that we had to be well dressed to go out. In Melbourne we often would go out for a few beers at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and end up in pubs till late at night. In Sydney, we were told our clothes were not acceptable! (jeans and a tshirt, not like we were sporting shorts, flip flops and a sports jersey!)

I found Melb to be more laid back and the transport was crackin' which is handy for doing the touristy spots.

All in all, this was my opinion and others will differ. But flights are cheap and you can easily up sticks and try the other city. Enjoy Oz and if you hit Melbourne be sure to pop into The Poet for a pint and a packet of Chipsticks.

Where would this be? Because Melbourne CBD was dead!!

Zambia

I second that , do you mean the Celtic Club?

Frank Black

There're both nice cities and you’d be happy living in either one I’m sure – For me I’d have to say that Sydney just about shades it as a place to live – mainly because of the beaches, the better weather and it seemed to me that there was more ‘stuff’ to do within a couple of hours drive of the city.
Now that’s not to say that there’s not plenty of stuff around Melbourne, the Great Ocean Road, the Grampians, Penguin Island to name a few.
But, (and it’s just a personal opinion) I’d have to go with Sydney.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Where would this be? Because Melbourne CBD was dead!!

Thats one of the problems with Melbourne CBD unless you know where youre going its pubs are difficult to find but Melbourne CBD is far from dead I go out there all the time.

kavsmdf

I lived in Melbourne for 7 months and I can honestly say Sydney hasn't got a patch on it.

The only nice places in Sydney are the Opera House Area's and Darling Harbour. The rest is run down, tacky and dirty. Public transport there is disgraceful compared to Melbourne.

Anything Sydney has Melbourne will have plus a lot more! The biggest pro Melbourne has is the public transport. You can literally go anywhere on the trams, trains and buses, for only $30 a week. There are also plenty of places to watch a match if you want, Premiership and rugby is on in the casino which is open 24/7, and they have no problem if you just go in and watch it without buying anything.

Meeting people is very easy, just head off on a backpacker day trip and you'll meet loads! Even just head out to St. Kilda on a Sunday and you'll meet loads of Irish people if that's what you want.

The weather is not too different, Melbourne does get colder, but the summer there is gorgeous, can be up to 40 degrees.

The only thing you need to decide is if you can hack it alone, because I personally would just stay with my friends. Although if you're not doing the whole backpacker thing and are just going to work then maybe being on your own could be better, you'd certainly save more

Zambia

What rugby can you see in the Casino?

5 Nations?
Super Rugby?
Heineken Cup?

lg123

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/05/3261374.htm?section=justin

jank

Doc wrote: »

Thats one of the problems with Melbourne CBD unless you know where youre going its pubs are difficult to find but Melbourne CBD is far from dead I go out there all the time.

So where are all these bars and clubs? See that is one of the things I dont like about the place. The place has a social scene but most of it is underground or hidden only known to locals :rolleyes:....as I said the place is up its own arse a bit. Every place has local haunts where those in the know will go to but to have a whole cbd like that??

E.g. Last all-ireland football final day/night I went out hunting for a bar. There was one that was showing the United-liverpool game but when that was over it was closing time. About 12:00am!!:rolleyes: I checked out about half a dozen places a mix of Irish bars english bars, sports bars and they were all closed. I did my homework or so I thought as I googled this forum for GAA watching bars... epic fail!!
That would have never have happened in Sydney. Ended up listening to it on the radio on my work laptop back in the room! At least Cork won!

Another good thing about Melbourne though is the Crown Casino, that place rocks!

jank

Jezz where to start...

kavsmdf wrote: »

I lived in Melbourne for 7 months and I can honestly say Sydney hasn't got a patch on it.

The only nice places in Sydney are the Opera House Area's and Darling Harbour. The rest is run down, tacky and dirty. Public transport there is disgraceful compared to Melbourne.:)

Have you been to the northern beaches? Manly, Palm beach and anywhere in between? How about the eastern suburbs like Watsons bay? Paddington? Surry Hills? There is much more to Sydney then the cbd which I will agree is not the nicest of spots!

kavsmdf wrote: »

Anything Sydney has Melbourne will have plus a lot more! The biggest pro Melbourne has is the public transport. You can literally go anywhere on the trams, trains and buses, for only $30 a week. There are also plenty of places to watch a match if you want, Premiership and rugby is on in the casino which is open 24/7, and they have no problem if you just go in and watch it without buying anything.

Melbourne has better public transport for sure but so does Singapore!

kavsmdf wrote: »

Meeting people is very easy, just head off on a backpacker day trip and you'll meet loads! Even just head out to St. Kilda on a Sunday and you'll meet loads of Irish people if that's what you want.:)

Flying half way around the world to meet.... Irish people..:(

kavsmdf wrote: »

The weather is not too different, Melbourne does get colder, but the summer there is gorgeous, can be up to 40 degrees.

If not too different you mean getting a slap with a napkin or hammer than yea its not too different other than you need proper warm clothes (jacket, hat, glooves) in Melbourne over the winter. In sydney a jumper is all you need most of the time and indoors a t-shirt will do. There is a big different between the winters.

Doc

jank wrote: »

So where are all these bars and clubs? See that is one of the things I dont like about the place. The place has a social scene but most of it is underground or hidden only known to locals :rolleyes:....as I said the place is up its own arse a bit. Every place has local haunts where those in the know will go to but to have a whole cbd like that??

E.g. Last all-ireland football final day/night I went out hunting for a bar. There was one that was showing the United-liverpool game but when that was over it was closing time. About 12:00am!!:rolleyes: I checked out about half a dozen places a mix of Irish bars english bars, sports bars and they were all closed. I did my homework or so I thought as I googled this forum for GAA watching bars... epic fail!!
That would have never have happened in Sydney. Ended up listening to it on the radio on my work laptop back in the room! At least Cork won!

Another good thing about Melbourne though is the Crown Casino, that place rocks!

Well here we have to agree to disagree although I will concede that when you arrive here first it is hard to find the laneway pubs in the CBD you have to understand that it is the Central Business District which is not like a city like Dublin where there is a mishmash of buildings and uses that grew up organically so bars in Melbourne’s CBD largely have opened in the space left over by other businesses. I really like the fact that there are lots of small places hidden away for you to discover in the CBD unlike say Perth where the CBD virtually shuts down at 6 0’clock with all nightlife moving out around the suburbs. You also have to understand that you are looking for a very niece thing when trying to find a bar showing the English premiership. If you were looking for a bar that had the AFL game on you would have no problems. Having said this I have never not been able to see any game I wanted to see (there’s always the casino!) and as you have said why come over here to meet Irish people it could equally be said why come over here to watch an English sport (particularly one that will only be on live at about 3am).

There are so many cool little bars in the CBD that there is bound to be one that you will like and if not there’s always the suburbs where the pubs that aren’t as hidden away.

I will say that Melbourne is a bit of a hipster town but personally I prefer hipster to bogans.

Rebel Boy

Zambia wrote: »

What rugby can you see in the Casino?

5 Nations?
Super Rugby?
Heineken Cup?

6 Nations and super Rugby ya but not Heineken Cup I don't think cause most of them games tend to be on Setanta and the Casino doesn't have that.

Mellor

Doc wrote: »

I will say that Melbourne is a bit of a hipster town but personally I prefer hipster to bogans.

We are talkign about Melbourne vrs Sydney.
Not city verses countey, Bogans = ozzie rednecks, best example I could think of.

I'm not sure what you are saying really.

jank

I think what he is implying is that Sydney has more bogans....

jank

Doc wrote: »

.....Having said this I have never not been able to see any game I wanted to see (there’s always the casino!) and as you have said why come over here to meet Irish people it could equally be said why come over here to watch an English sport (particularly one that will only be on live at about 3am).....
.

Em...what? Gaelic football and english sport?

My point stands. There are loads of places in Sydney in and around the CBD that would have shown the all-Ireland football final. In Melbourne I could not find any. That is all I am saying.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Em...what? Gaelic football and english sport?

My point stands. There are loads of places in Sydney in and around the CBD that would have shown the all-Ireland football final. In Melbourne I could not find any. That is all I am saying.

Sorry thought you were looking for a premiership game not the all-Ireland but I still think my point stands there are loads of pubs in the CBD there just arent that many that might show the all-Ireland but I am very suprised that you couldnt find anywhere with it on because there are are still a good lot of Irish pubs in the CBD.

Mellor

jank wrote: »

I think what he is implying is that Sydney has more bogans....

Yeah that's what I thought he meant, didn't make much sense to me?
Well Doc? did you?
There's not goign to be many Bogans in either city.
In Sydney, around the north side of the harbour, or the eastern suburbs. These are some of the more posh areas about.

Maybe if you went way out west, but that not the city anymore and i'm sure the same applies in Melbourne.

Whatever kind of people you are after I'm sure they all exist in both citys.
Maybe if Lebanese gang boss wannabes are your thing you'll rather sydney, or Greek crime wannabes if you rather wearing suits then hit melbourne.
But other than that I think there's not going to be much difference.

Cooperspale

Re: watching GAA in Melbourne:

It takes a little more organising to watch a game here compared to Sydney, although I remember back in '98 having to go to the Coogee RSL to watch an All Ireland.
Before I got the sports channels, the only reliable bar to watch GAA was Bridie O'Reillys on Lt Collins and even then I always phoned them to check beforehand!
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=bridie%20o'reilly's%20melbourne&rls=com.microsoft:en-au:IE-SearchBox&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl
That said, I do remember about 12 of us watching an All-Ireland Hurling game (hardly a rousing pub atmosphere) and 2-3 of those were inquisitive Aussies who kept asking about rules etc. which is the last thing you want to be listening to during a match :mad:

Elephant and Wheelbarrow in St Kilda showed some but it depended on how many people were actually watching the game, if there was little interest they closed shop and you got thrown out usually at half time :mad:

Quiet Man shows games also, but can be costly getting home if you don't have a car.

The Drunken Poet is a great little bar but I don't think they have a tv at all
http://maps.google.com.au/maps/place?rls=com.microsoft:en-au:IE-SearchBox&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=drunken+poet+melbourne&fb=1&gl=au&hq=drunken+poet&hnear=0x6ad646b5d2ba4df7:0x4045675218ccd90,Melbourne+VIC&cid=6132787027983442286

jank

Doc wrote: »

Sorry thought you were looking for a premiership game not the all-Ireland but I still think my point stands there are loads of pubs in the CBD there just arent that many that might show the all-Ireland but I am very suprised that you couldnt find anywhere with it on because there are are still a good lot of Irish pubs in the CBD.

Ah there are loads of Irish pubs there but they were all closed... which I thought was surprising... that wouldnt have happened in Sydney.

jank

Cooperspale wrote: »

Re: watching GAA in Melbourne:

Before I got the sports channels, the only reliable bar to watch GAA was Bridie O'Reillys on Lt Collins and even then I always phoned them to check beforehand!

Pretty sure I checked this place out but it was closed.

Doc

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah that's what I thought he meant, didn't make much sense to me?
Well Doc? did you?
There's not goign to be many Bogans in either city.
In Sydney, around the north side of the harbour, or the eastern suburbs. These are some of the more posh areas about.

Maybe if you went way out west, but that not the city anymore and i'm sure the same applies in Melbourne.

Whatever kind of people you are after I'm sure they all exist in both citys.
Maybe if Lebanese gang boss wannabes are your thing you'll rather sydney, or Greek crime wannabes if you rather wearing suits then hit melbourne.
But other than that I think there's not going to be much difference.

No I didn’t mean that Sydney was full of Bogans only that Melbourne has a lot of hipsters. I only meant it as in Bogans would be at one end of the scale and hipsters on the other end.

Theresalwaysone

Only reason you can find more places to watch All Ireland, Premiership matches, HEC Rugby in Sydney is because it has a higher tourist/backpacker/Irish population.

That doesnt neccessarily make it a worse city btw.

I've been to Sydney and I live in Melbourne. I've also been to many other cities all over the world(solid brag) and I have to say, I absolutely adore Melbourne. It has everything for me.

Beaches are crap enough but they are there.
It has all the sports you could ever want. AFL Grand Final. Tennis. Rugby league in the stormers, Union in the Rebels (who will be a serious team next year), the Tennis. The F1. Soccer in Heart and Victory. Its quality.

I live just off Chapel street so I dont have any problem whatsoever with bars/clubs. Im close to St.Kilda if I want that backpacker buzz and Im an 8 min train ride from the city if I want to go out there. I never have any problem finding a bar thats enjoyable.

It definitely is more of a fashion conscious, hipster town though, on the train in this morning I was the only person wearing something other than black, white, grey or navy.

The weather is relatively crap too.

Mellor

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

It definitely is more of a fashion conscious, hipster town though, on the train in this morning I was the only person wearing something other than black, white, grey or navy.

Shorts, t-shirt, red faced and polishing off a shaker of ON Choco-mint