Becoming increasingly disillusioned with the GAA.

Lord Trollington

From the outset I will admit that I am a Kildare man.

Sundays defeat was a hard pill to swallow, merely under the circumstances.
The losing of that game for Kildare was not the last minute decision by Cormac Reilly, that only contributed to it. It was our wastefulness in front of goal and our seemingly lack of self belief and confidence against so called "bigger teams". But that discussion is for another day.

I am at wits end with Gaelic Football and the GAA, a game I love, live and breath for.

At this stage its every weekend we see that some county/club team somewhere around the country is on the receiving end of a completely outrageous decision. Underage, minor, junior, senior,intercounty. No level is escused. What makes these decisions worse is that the GAA completely bury their heads in the sand on these issues.

There are so many examples.

I was at the Carlow/Dublin u21 Leinster Semi Final a number of years back in Dr Cullen Park Carlow. I witnessed possibly one of the worst decisions in football that day when Brendan Murphy of Rathvilly and Carlow was wrestled to the ground on Dublins 21 yard, only for Dublin to be awarded a free out


Meath v Louth Leinster final. We all know how that turned out. Rather than take control of the situation, the GAA put it back on the Meath County Boards lap by saying they must offer a replay. A thoroughly unbelievable situation.
This very same referee less than one year later is back refereeing an Intercounty game last Weekend - Antrim v Westmeath.
That to me is huge big 2 fingers up by the GAA to its fans and members who are keeping the organisation afloat. I imagine he would have been back sooner except for his own reluctance.

We then have Cormac Reilly who has had red cards he brandished this year to players rescinded, obviously wrong decisions taking control of the biggest game of the year so far. Anyone who has watched the game in its entirety will see that some of his decisions during the game, not only his last minute one were at best dubious.
We then have the referee's coordinator Mick Curley coming out and stating that he is happy with the decision once Mr Reilly told him it was a definite free. Talking about burying your head in the sand.
Its engrained in our psyche as Irish people. Our politicians are prime example of this.
And we accept it. We allow it to happen.
And we deserve it because we simply do nothing about it.

Do I want my kids to be apart of this. I am not so sure. Its getting worse on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis.

I play club football and have played intercounty football. I have given so much time to my club over the years. But its all just gotten too much for me and I have become disillusioned with the entire set up.

Derfil

I hear you whycliff and feel exactly the same. Speaking to a mate of mine Tuesday night who's not a GAA man and his comment was "The GAA is in existence for over 100 years and still no one one knows what a foul is".

It was a fair point and I couldn't argue with him. There's so much inconsistency it's frightening. One day its a free the next its not. The refereeing standard is shocking. Lets call a spade a spade. Cormac Reilly isn't fit to ref an U10 match let alone a Leinster Semi Final.

Fandango

I will say from the outset that im a Dub and i do think it was a free but i do also agree with your post in general. I honestly dont see the problem with video technology being used for a start. I dont buy this "has to be available across the board" bull. Look at Wimbledon. Its used where available even tho its not available across the board in the same bloody tournament! If you can make some games fairer at least, then do so imo. Also, you have 4 officials who could help a referee out a huge amount but are never utilised, apart from waving a flag every now and then. You have the 2 linesmen who, if they see a foul the referee misses cannot draw his attention to it. There are so many areas the GAA could look to in an attempt to make the game fairer but they refuse on every turn.

1. Better training for Officials
2. More input for Umpires and Linesmen
3. More clarity on the rules. Straight forward seperation between a foul and a tackle.
4. Video Technology where available.

Maybe after these are looked at we can start to see a drop in highly debatable and ridiculous decisions.

harpsman

"Im not complaining bout late free but....."

Look the ref thought he saw a foul and thus awarded a free.ive only seen tv highlights which dont prove anything as you cant see what happened when brogan started his run-he may have had his jersey tugged.
At the very least he had his ankles clipped which impeded his run-that could be interpreted as a foul.
Gaelic football is an incredibly difficult game to referee for all the reasons that have been stated before.The best referee in the world would get lots of calls wrong.Even most of what some people call shockers you will find lots of people arguing afterwards that it was the correct decision-the ogara sending off for example.
Finally the reason your team lost is because your forwards couldnt hit a cows ass with a banjo and your best forward was playing 90 yards from the opponents goal.
Now if the referees were as bad as most of the players they reffing you d really have something to complain about

corny

I'm not indignant about what happened on Sunday but what i can't understand is why the GAA want so many people booked for seemingly innocuous looking fouls. There seems to be no legislation for a good honest attempt to get the ball these days. We also have referees trying to impose the letter of the law on the pitch like robots. Why not just apply a bit of common sense? Instead we have referees sending off Brian Farrell for example. I mean seriously. He glanced past the player and we have all this nonsense about 'attempting to strike'. Just tell the two of them to relax, don't let it happen again and play on.

Mountainlad

Derfil wrote: »

I hear you whycliff and feel exactly the same. Speaking to a mate of mine Tuesday night who's not a GAA man and his comment was "The GAA is in existence for over 100 years and still no one one knows what a foul is".

It was a fair point and I couldn't argue with him. There's so much inconsistency it's frightening. One day its a free the next its not. The refereeing standard is shocking. Lets call a spade a spade. Cormac Reilly isn't fit to ref an U10 match let alone a Leinster Semi Final.

Harsh

Mountainlad

harpsman wrote: »

"Im not complaining bout late free but....."

Look the ref thought he saw a foul and thus awarded a free.ive only seen tv highlights which dont prove anything as you cant see what happened when brogan started his run-he may have had his jersey tugged.
At the very least he had his ankles clipped which impeded his run-that could be interpreted as a foul.
Gaelic football is an incredibly difficult game to referee for all the reasons that have been stated before.The best referee in the world would get lots of calls wrong.Even most of what some people call shockers you will find lots of people arguing afterwards that it was the correct decision-the ogara sending off for example.
Finally the reason your team lost is because your forwards couldnt hit a cows ass with a banjo and your best forward was playing 90 yards from the opponents goal.
Now if the referees were as bad as most of the players they reffing you d really have something to complain about

Very harsh

Mountainlad

corny wrote: »

I'm not indignant about what happened on Sunday but what i can't understand is why the GAA want so many people booked for seemingly innocuous looking fouls. There seems to be no legislation for a good honest attempt to get the ball these days. We also have referees trying to impose the letter of the law on the pitch like robots. Why not just apply a bit of common sense? Instead we have referees sending off Brian Farrell for example. I mean seriously. He glanced past the player and we have all this nonsense about 'attempting to strike'. Just tell the two of them to relax, don't let it happen again and play on.

Agree 100%

Pride Fighter

Remember that according to the forum charter abuse of GAA players or officials is a bannable offence. Tread carefully

Mod

The Rooster

whycliff wrote: »

From the outset I will admit that I am a Kildare man.

Sundays defeat was a hard pill to swallow, merely under the circumstances.
The losing of that game for Kildare was not the last minute decision by Cormac Reilly, that only contributed to it. It was our wastefulness in front of goal and our seemingly lack of self belief and confidence against so called "bigger teams". But that discussion is for another day.

I am at wits end with Gaelic Football and the GAA, a game I love, live and breath for.

At this stage its every weekend we see that some county/club team somewhere around the country is on the receiving end of a completely outrageous decision.

We then have the referee's coordinator Mick Curley coming out and stating that he is happy with the decision once Mr Reilly told him it was a definite free. Talking about burying your head in the sand.
Its engrained in our psyche as Irish people. Our politicians are prime example of this.
And we accept it. We allow it to happen.
And we deserve it because we simply do nothing about it.

Do I want my kids to be apart of this. I am not so sure. Its getting worse on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis.

I play club football and have played intercounty football. I have given so much time to my club over the years. But its all just gotten too much for me and I have become disillusioned with the entire set up.

I have to say the reaction of Kildare fans to the free is absolutely unbelievable.

To say the decision to award the free or any decision Reilly made on Sudnay was "completely outrageous" is complete hyperbole and driven by the media frenzy. We can all see with our own eyes that the tv replays were inconclusive. They didnt show the start of Brogan's run. There was definitely contact, Brogan was impeded. Whether it was accidental or deliberate, whether it was a free or not, is a matter of opinion. Some refs would have given it, some wouldnt. It was a 50/50 that went against you. Sweeney's yellow earlier was a 50/50 that went for you. The ref called the decisions as he saw them, he didnt make any outrageous errors, therefore of course Curley was right to back him.

Where you moaning about the "completely outrageous" decision the ref made in the Meath match when he disallowed Geragthy's goal, when pictures showed he was outside the square? A goal that would have got Meath right back into a game, they'd been completely outplayed in. That would have been a right body blow to the lillies and given the royals a huge boost. Who knows how differently the last few minutes would have panned out?

The most sense you made was in your first paragraph. Kildare couldnt beat Dublin, even with 14 men. Kildare kicked the ball into Stephen Cluxton's hands 11 times during the 70 minutes. If you want to have a rant about something being "compeltely outrageous", maybe that's what you should focus on.

Get over it. Kildare are still inthe championship and could even meet the Dubs later on to try and get revenge.

jpb1974

Do I want my kids to be apart of this.

Of course you do. There's far more to the GAA than bad refereeing decisions. I wouldn't dream of taking my young lad out of the local club, even if the ref scored a goal for Dublin in the Leinster final.

J Cheever Loophole

corny wrote: »

We also have referees trying to impose the letter of the law on the pitch like robots. Why not just apply a bit of common sense?

Because then you will have people giving off about lack of consistency!

Referees can't win to be honest.

Indie.

whycliff wrote: »

Do I want my kids to be apart of this. I am not so sure. Its getting worse on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis.

.

While i agree that the standard of refereeing has been poor of late i cannot understand how this could affect your kids involvement in the sport. Poor decisions are rife in every team sport. I think a major problem lies with the assessors at the game which puts needless pressure on referees and dictates their interpretation of the rules.

super_furry

The size of the pitch, the pace of the game and the part-time status of referees means that they're often unable to keep up with action and have to guess when they make decisions.

nice_guy80

the media are hyping up incidents in games

they don't hype up the positives like in soccer, rugby and other sports

if you keep hearing negative news it will get you down.

and by the way, it was a free

corny

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Because then you will have people giving off about lack of consistency!

Referees can't win to be honest.

Not at all. Take Rugby Union for example the difference from ref to ref in interpretation of the rules can be huge and yet i think its the best refereed field game we have.

If the players and supporters know an impartial ref, who knows the game, calls it as HE sees it and isn't blindly following some hymn sheet with a huge set of criteria he has to meet i think they'd be far more willing to accept the inaccuracies you just can't iron out. Thats why the players love Pat McEnaney.

premierstone

To all those who are bemoaning the standard of Refs here and in other threads, and are saying it is putting them off or taking away from the enjoyment of the GAA, how about you take a proactive stance and actually become a referee yourselves, Im sure your opinions would change fairly quickly, if not overnight. Referees are a very important part of what makes this organisation the wonderfull organisation it is and we need to encourage and support them, like we do with the players, because at the end of the day, without referees we have nothing.

Cypher_sounds

whycliff wrote: »

There are so many examples.

I was at the Carlow/Dublin u21 Leinster Semi Final a number of years back in Dr Cullen Park Carlow. I witnessed possibly one of the worst decisions in football that day when Brendan Murphy of Rathvilly and Carlow was wrestled to the ground on Dublins 21 yard, only for Dublin to be awarded a free out

Yeah I was at that match too, it was a disgraceful decision the last 30 seconds of the match, right in front of the goal Murphy won the ball in the air and was as you said wrestled to the ground by a dublin defender and amazingly dublin got the free out, it was disgusting.

buck65

I think rugby is really impacting on attendances around the country. I come from a GAA backround and followed Clare since the early 90's , mostly hurling but would go to the football games if I could.
I started following Munster in 2000 and have since become a season ticket holder in Thomond and travel to a few games too.
Obviously with family and work it is hard to go to every game so basically in the past 2/3 seasons I only watch hurling on T.V anymore.
The atmosphere and quality of venue for rugby far exceeds most GAA fixtures.
Looking at attendances this year, people are choosing to stay away from the games.
Personally I think the GAA have too many grounds, most are shabby, prices have been too high (they seem to be adressing this).

J Cheever Loophole

corny wrote: »

Not at all. Take Rugby Union for example the difference from ref to ref in interpretation of the rules can be huge and yet i think its the best refereed field game we have.

Well, anytime I read rugby analysts, particularly Stephen Jones, they are always bemoaning refereeing inconsistencies and their approach to issues at the scrum, break down etc. I often hear rugby commentators on TV refer to the differences in approach between northern and southern hemisphere referees!

I enjoy listening to rugby referees, and the authority they carry, but issues of inconsistency are still there I believe.

hisholinessnb

Referees have always made mistakes, and always will.
The difference now is that both the media and the fans piss and moan about every wrong decision twice as much now.

Its impossible to get every decision right, if you don't agree why not try your hand at being a ref yourself.

corny

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Well, anytime I read rugby analysts, particularly Stephen Jones, they are always bemoaning refereeing inconsistencies and their approach to issues at the scrum, break down etc. I often hear rugby commentators on TV refer to the differences in approach between northern and southern hemisphere referees!

I enjoy listening to rugby referees, and the authority they carry, but issues of inconsistency are still there I believe.

Firstly, Stephen Jones is so far removed from reality i'd give no credence to anything he has to say.

Secondly, like i said (and you quoted) the difference in interpretation can be huge and yet for the most part i believe most players and supporters are more willing to accept the referee calls what he sees. Mistakes are made no matter what sport we're talking about.

quantity771

The thing that has riled me about last weekends game is the fact that the decision that caused so much controversy was actually correct. I must have posted in 3 or 4 different threads about this, but it really pi**es me off that when a team falls short by such a small margin, the first thing everyone looks for is, "who can we blame?".

Oh yeah,the guy in the middle.

I referee at under-age club level and can honestly say of course we don't get everything right,we are human, but at least have the sportsmanship to recognise when we make the correct call.

I sat in the Canal End for both matches, and with my very own eyes witnessed Brogan being pulled back long before the ball came anywhere near.What is giving fans reason to complain is the fact that RTE as usual make a balls of the replay which clearly doesn't do justice to the foul, which had been committed long before camera came near.

Now I don't defend all decisions by every ref,but feel very strongly about this one.What happened in last years Leinster Final was an absolute disgrace I fully agree, but can't be compared to last Sunday.

So in summary, no you can't pull anyones jersey, and just because the camera doesn't catch the foul doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why make excuses for a teams shortcomings when players are big and bold enough to know that if you can't keep from fouling whether first minute or last, you pay the price, and if it's the latter you cost your team.

padraig_f

I agree with the OP, and I'm from Dublin so have no axe to grind regarding the Dublin-Kildare match, my initial reaction when play was stopped for that free was that the ref had blown for full time, couldn't believe it when he awarded a free. Well I could, because I'm so used to terrible refereeing decisions that ruin games in the GAA.

I watch a number of sports and gaelic football is by far the worst refereed of them all. It's not all down to the referees, a lot of it is down to the rules (e.g. square ball rule is impossible to judge), the yellow card system is very flawed, copied from soccer which is a completely different game, and leads to players getting fairly randomly sent off. No use of technology when it could be done inexpensively (there are already communication headsets, and people with monitors in the stands).

Terrible decisions that affect outcomes of games happen routinely and nothing changes. Martin Sludden decides last year's Leinster final with a clearly illegal goal and he's back refereeing inter-county football again this year.

People aren't being pernickity when they complain about this. Colm O'Rourke, one of the great players, had a rant on RTE about the refereeing at half-time during that match (which was even before the incident). I was reading Darragh O'Se's column today, he's talking about referees:

There’s no doubt, some of the referees this summer are just poor at the job. And huge games are being decided by bad decisions. That just can’t go on.

These are the great players, you think they'd rather be talking about referees or players? I think they'd much rather be talking about players and teams, but the way matches are being refereed, it's impossible to avoid.

Ceist_Beag

Well said quantity771. It's all too easy for supporters to crib and moan about refereeing decisions, there's a complete lack of respect for the referee in GAA. And the media (some RTE pundits especially) don't help matters with their constant jibes. The fact of the matter on Sunday is that Kildare only have themselves to blame for not being able to put away 14 men. I would agree tho with the point being made by corny, I think if referees could be allowed referee the game as they see it, and explain their decisions a bit more clearly, it would lead to an improvement in the relationship between players and referees. But really I think the media, the managers, supporters and the players need to improve their attitude towards referees and appreciate that whilst not every decision they make may be the correct one, they are doing their best. Funny enough of those four groups, I think the players show the most respect to referees!

Lord Trollington

Why was Bernard Brogans free at the weekend awarded can someone clarify the situation for me?

Ceist_Beag

whycliff wrote: »

Why was Bernard Brogans free at the weekend awarded can someone clarify the situation for me?

ehhh hasn't quantity771 already clarified for ye?

J Cheever Loophole

corny wrote: »

Firstly, Stephen Jones is so far removed from reality i'd give no credence to anything he has to say.

I don't think Stephen Jones' opinions in this instance can be considered invalid, given that they appear to tally with many other rugby commentators / analysts.

corny wrote: »

Secondly, like i said (and you quoted) the difference in interpretation can be huge and yet for the most part i believe most players and supporters are more willing to accept the referee calls what he sees. Mistakes are made no matter what sport we're talking about.

So what you are essentially saying is that despite inconsistencies (differences in interpretation) in refereeing, we as GAA fans should be willing to accept that?

dcr22B

whycliff wrote: »

Why was Bernard Brogans free at the weekend awarded can someone clarify the situation for me?

From Bernard himself:

“I was just running for a ball and the defender got too close to me and my feet and his got caught up and tangled and I couldn’t run freely and my way was being impeded.”

corny

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I don't think Stephen Jones' opinions in this instance can be considered invalid, given that they appear to tally with many other rugby commentators / analysts.



So what you are essentially saying is that despite inconsistencies (differences in interpretation) in refereeing, we as GAA fans should be willing to accept that?

Give the referee some discretion and allow him use a bit of common sense and yes players and supporters would be more likely to accept you win some and you lose some. Try to create brain dead referees who referee the game from reading a book with a check list and you get threads labelled 'Becoming increasingly disillusioned with the GAA'.

Ceist_Beag

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

So what you are essentially saying is that despite inconsistencies (differences in interpretation) in refereeing, we as GAA fans should be willing to accept that?

Why not? Given that two fans can look at the same incident and see it differently, why is it so hard to accept that referees may take a different interpretation? Very often it is not a black and white issue when it comes to what is or is not a foul in GAA. Or what is and is not a yellow card offence. So long as the referee is clear in why it was given and is not wrong in what they say happened then I would be happy enough to accept that. So long as you cannot argue with the fact of what happened (even if you don't necessarily agree with the referee's interpretation of it) then for me we should accept the referees decision.

harpsman

buck65 wrote: »

I think rugby is really impacting on attendances around the country. I come from a GAA backround and followed Clare since the early 90's , mostly hurling but would go to the football games if I could.
I started following Munster in 2000 and have since become a season ticket holder in Thomond and travel to a few games too.
Obviously with family and work it is hard to go to every game so basically in the past 2/3 seasons I only watch hurling on T.V anymore.
The atmosphere and quality of venue for rugby far exceeds most GAA fixtures.
Looking at attendances this year, people are choosing to stay away from the games.
Personally I think the GAA have too many grounds, most are shabby, prices have been too high (they seem to be adressing this).

Woo-'Topes rule.
Not a bandwagon jumper at all then.Im surprised youre not supporting Leinster now.
Although you re not alone.Most Irish sports "fans" will only go to games when its a big occasion or theres a piss up involved. First sign o trouble and they re off to next bandwagon,or back to the premiership.
As im sure Munster will find out if they ever go through a bad spell.

harpsman

corny wrote: »

Firstly, Stephen Jones is so far removed from reality i'd give no credence to anything he has to say.

Secondly, like i said (and you quoted) the difference in interpretation can be huge and yet for the most part i believe most players and supporters are more willing to accept the referee calls what he sees. Mistakes are made no matter what sport we're talking about.

Thats cos nobody knows the rules or can see whats goin on most of the time.

Clareman

If you want to talk about Rugby, the forum is

---

>>>>

With trial by video refs are on a hiding to nothing. Take the Galway Mayo game for an example, something happened, none of the officals had a clear view of it but knew something happened, the ref decided to warn the player, on the Sunday Game the ref was complained about. IMVHO, the game is so fast now and the pitch so big, I think we need to take something from the International Rules arena and have 2 refs on the pitch, 1 for each half.

J Cheever Loophole

corny wrote: »

Give the referee some discretion and allow him use a bit of common sense and yes players and supporters would be more likely to accept you win some and you lose some. Try to create brain dead referees who referee the game from reading a book with a check list and you get threads labelled 'Becoming increasingly disillusioned with the GAA'.

Ironic that. From what I can see, the referee used his discretion to interpret an incident last Sunday as a free, and that prompted this thread about 'Becoming increasingly disillusioned with the GAA'.

As far as I can see, GAA people generally are not prepared to accept 'you wn some and you lose some'.

For the record, I thought the incident last Sunday was a free, and the ref had the nads to give it, as he knew in all likelihood that there would be a storm of protest breaking over his head.

TopOfTheRight

Clareman wrote: »

If you want to talk about Rugby, the forum is

---

>>>>

With trial by video refs are on a hiding to nothing. Take the Galway Mayo game for an example, something happened, none of the officals had a clear view of it but knew something happened, the ref decided to warn the player, on the Sunday Game the ref was complained about. IMVHO, the game is so fast now and the pitch so big, I think we need to take something from the International Rules arena and have 2 refs on the pitch, 1 for each half.

The officials shouldnt have acted on something they hadnt seen properly, thats what they deserve to be criticized about from Sunday, things like that should be left to the video evidence and the citing panel. Higgins got lucky that the linesman half-saw the incident and then told the ref something inaccurate that got the player a yellow instead of a straight red or a subsequent citing.

As for two referees, its all well and good to say it should be brought in but think of the affects at all levels from junior C down to under 10s, we have enough trouble appointing enough referees as it is. Two referees per game will halve the number of games played at a certain time and/or lead to even more inadequate referees being appointed to bigger games, not viable imo.

Lord Trollington

dcr22B wrote: »

From Bernard himself:

“I was just running for a ball and the defender got too close to me and my feet and his got caught up and tangled and I couldn’t run freely and my way was being impeded.”

Well you see to me that just doesn't add up because Bernard was the man who was allegedly fouled so he should surely know why it was awarded.

quantity771 seen his jersey being pulled, but Borgan says his legs got tangled.

The referee clearly indicates that Mcloughlin was pulling Brogans arm after awarding the free.

Someone somewhere is talking through their hoop.

Having 2 referee's on the pitch is probably the best idea i've heard so far.

premierstone

whycliff wrote: »

Having 2 referee's on the pitch is probably the best idea i've heard so far.

Its also the most unworkable, unsustainable and impractical.

Clareman

Why is it unworkable? It works in the International game. If your worried about difficulty in getting people to ref, change it to only 1 umpire per goal, have the ref have a bigger say in scores.

Also, why not only trial it in inter-county games? After all, there is a precidence in having different rules for different grades (time of the game)

rpurfield

the one thing i agree with the OP on is the leinster final last year.croker shouldve ruled a replay and set the precendent and be done with it.letting it fall back into the meath county boards lap was an easy escape just as the meath county board passed the blame to the squad!!

as regards referees i know myself from my few years doing it you cant see everything but the half a dozen cameras in croker will.i think the argument of if it cant be implemented at every game it cant be used is a wrong one.you dont see a tmo at all ireland league rugby games but in the top level it is.the gaa need to accept that the inter county game drives the whole association and should be treated different to a junior b game in stamullen here say.

as regards getting disillousioned about it i wouldnt.let the kids go down and play with the local club.its a world away from the inter county game and its what GAA is all about.

premierstone

Clareman wrote: »

Why is it unworkable? It works in the International game. If your worried about difficulty in getting people to ref, change it to only 1 umpire per goal, have the ref have a bigger say in scores.

Also, why not only trial it in inter-county games? After all, there is a precidence in having different rules for different grades (time of the game)

So you think our current umpires would be fit enough to ref an intercounty championship match?

And I have umpired myself and it is absolutely impossible for one man to do that job, especially in hurling.

Time of the game is not exactly a rule and imo it is not a good idea to have different practices at different levels.

Also another huge problem would be, we already have a hugh variation in hte interpretation of the rules from referee to referee which in fairness is understandable but can you imagine have two referees interpreting the same rules differently at either end of the pitch in the same match, so a player would have to take into account which end of the field he was in.

And tbh it absolutely does not work in the compromise rules games, which are a farce of a made up game which serves no purpose and in all honesty must people only watch to see a good brawl.

premierstone

rpurfield wrote: »

as regards referees i know myself from my few years doing it you cant see everything but the half a dozen cameras in croker will.i think the argument of if it cant be implemented at every game it cant be used is a wrong one.you dont see a tmo at all ireland league rugby games but in the top level it is.the gaa need to accept that the inter county game drives the whole association and should be treated different to a junior b game in stamullen here say.

I very strongly disagree with you here, it is the clubs that drive the GAA and not the elite intercounty games which represents a tiny % of players that play our games.

The comparison with Rugby is irrelevant IMO as Rugby is a professional sport it can in theory survive without the 'small' clubs the GAA simply could not survive in the same way.

Clareman

IMVHO the most difficult spot to judge whether a score has gone over or not is standing at the butt of the post, having a ref closer to the goals should help with judging if it was a score or not. The argument against having an additional ref was getting people to do it, by having 2 less officials could make it easier. I for 1 would like to see it trialled, I'm sure it would take much to trial it during the league.

No sport can survive without been fed by grass roots, even professional wrestling needs "players" coming through the ranks. Speaking of rugby though, Ireland was the victim of an officials blunder in this years 6 Nations, I don't think any sport is immune to errors by officials, I guess all you can hope for is to get mistakes to a minimum.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

So you think our current umpires would be fit enough to ref an intercounty championship match?

And I have umpired myself and it is absolutely impossible for one man to do that job, especially in hurling.

Time of the game is not exactly a rule and imo it is not a good idea to have different practices at different levels.

Also another huge problem would be, we already have a hugh variation in hte interpretation of the rules from referee to referee which in fairness is understandable but can you imagine have two referees interpreting the same rules differently at either end of the pitch in the same match, so a player would have to take into account which end of the field he was in.

And tbh it absolutely does not work in the compromise rules games, which are a farce of a made up game which serves no purpose and in all honesty must people only watch to see a good brawl.

I think the point on resources is very valid, I don't think two refs would be sustainable from that view point either. I have to say though the international rules doesn't work because the referees have a particular interest (ie they're biased) in the teams playing.

The way to go for me is more power for linesmen because what is the point in having trained referees running the line just to say how the sideline should be awarded to, anyone could do that.

Also, more training for referees. I know they have stuff in place, and I know it would be impossible for them to be as fit as players (they don't need to be that fit, just fitter) but you can see quite clearly that some referees could not possibly be fit enough. Obviosuly I'm not going to mention names but it's pretty apparent to people who watch GAA.
Fitter refs means better decisions, fact.

Clarity in the rules is also needed, as most people in thos thread have suggested.

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

IMVHO the most difficult spot to judge whether a score has gone over or not is standing at the butt of the post, having a ref closer to the goals should help with judging if it was a score or not. The argument against having an additional ref was getting people to do it, by having 2 less officials could make it easier. I for 1 would like to see it trialled, I'm sure it would take much to trial it during the league.

No sport can survive without been fed by grass roots, even professional wrestling needs "players" coming through the ranks. Speaking of rugby though, Ireland was the victim of an officials blunder in this years 6 Nations, I don't think any sport is immune to errors by officials, I guess all you can hope for is to get mistakes to a minimum.

Very true. You'd swear rugby was the perfect sport given what some people are saying. They have the scrum in which there are regular fouls by both parties it just depends on which side the ref is on to decide which one he calls. Plus the game is much slower than Hurling, and also slower than football.

bruschi

premierstone wrote: »

Its also the most unworkable, unsustainable and impractical.

Aussie rules has 4 refs. and its none of the above.

any reason why you think it cant work?

Pete_Cavan

For me, the thing that has me disillusioned with the GAA is the way yellow cards are handed out. Last weekend we had four players sent off (David Gibney and Michael Brennan for Cavan, Kevin Hughes for Tyrone and O'Gara from Dublin) for two yellow cards. IMO, in each case the second yellow card was justified, but the first was not. Had the "fouls" in each case happened the other way around no one would have been sent off because a ref would not have given a second yellow for something as innocuous as what was deemed deserving of the initial yellow. This is why people like McEnanney, he would not have given the first yellow and would not have put himself in a position where he had to send someone off. Some might say that once a player is on a yellow he should 'mind himself', but if a player is minding himself he cant play the game properly and should not be on the pitch. Just let them play, and if it is something dangerous then reach for the cards, but not for two harmless pushes.

Wrt video technology, it cant be implemented during games. In rugby it is only used for incidents in the try scoring area. In such incidents the period of play has ended the game has stopped anyway (the ball is either grounded, knock-on, in touch, held up, the game has stopped in any case). In football, you cant stop the game while the ball is in play to consult video ref because what do you do if it turns out not to have been a foul?

Video evidence should only be used retrospectively. The one player who should have got sent off at the weekend only received a yellow for practically assaulting someone. Keith Higgens punched a guy in the side of the head off the ball, yet he is now looking forward to a Connaught final while Brian Farrell was suspended for the weekend over a nothing incident. Who cares if the ref dealt with it, he got it wrong and two wrongs do not make a right. Handing out proper bans for these type of serious incidents actually help to eradicate them from the game.

Clareman

Again, imvho, I think 2 yellows should be 10 minutes in the sin bin, if the fouls are persistant fouling, of course if there's a serious foul it should be a red. A "third" yellow should be red as well.

bruschi

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

For me, the thing that has me disillusioned with the GAA is the way yellow cards are handed out. Last weekend we had four players sent off (David Gibney and Michael Brennan for Cavan, Kevin Hughes for Tyrone and O'Gara from Dublin) for two yellow cards. IMO, in each case the second yellow card was justified, but the first was not. Had the "fouls" in each case happened the other way around no one would have been sent off because a ref would not have given a second yellow for something as innocuous as what was deemed deserving of the initial yellow. This is why people like McEnanney, he would not have given the first yellow and would not have put himself in a position where he had to send someone off. Some might say that once a player is on a yellow he should 'mind himself', but if a player is minding himself he cant play the game properly and should not be on the pitch. Just let them play, and if it is something dangerous then reach for the cards, but not for two harmless pushes.

Wrt video technology, it cant be implemented during games. In rugby it is only used for incidents in the try scoring area. In such incidents the period of play has ended the game has stopped anyway (the ball is either grounded, knock-on, in touch, held up, the game has stopped in any case). In football, you cant stop the game while the ball is in play to consult video ref because what do you do if it turns out not to have been a foul?

Video evidence should only be used retrospectively. The one player who should have got sent off at the weekend only received a yellow for practically assaulting someone. Keith Higgens punched a guy in the side of the head off the ball, yet he is now looking forward to a Connaught final while Brian Farrell was suspended for the weekend over a nothing incident. Who cares if the ref dealt with it, he got it wrong and two wrongs do not make a right. Handing out proper bans for these type of serious incidents actually help to eradicate them from the game.

I get your point here, but seriously, you would have to question the temprament of a player who goes out and commits ridiculous tackles when on a yellow. The players need to take some responsibility here, and managers too. Managers training players to be cynical.

I saw some documentary thing about a former player who coaches now last week, and they showed a clip of him training U16s. He was showing them when being tackled, how to grab the opponants arm and pull them over thereby manufacturing a free. (not to get off topic, but this is a serious bugbear of mine, players who grab an opponent when being tackled, and they are the one penalised)

to be honest, the whole diciplinary procedures in GAA are ridiculous. the suspensions, appeals etc, all terrible. Players gettting a 2 week ban, means one player could miss 3 games, or could mean a player misses nothing.

Pete_Cavan

Clareman wrote: »

Again, imvho, I think 2 yellows should be 10 minutes in the sin bin, if the fouls are persistant fouling, of course if there's a serious foul it should be a red. A "third" yellow should be red as well.

I dont like the sin bin idea because I think it is better to keep it 15 v 15 as much as possible. How about after getting a second yellow that player has to go off for the rest of the match and his replaced by a sub (but you can still only use 5 subs). This way you punish the player, not the whole team. The straight red would still an option for serious incidents.

Mountainlad

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I dont like the sin bin idea because I think it is better to keep it 15 v 15 as much as possible. How about after getting a second yellow that player has to go off for the rest of the match and his replaced by a sub (but you can still only use 5 subs). This way you punish the player, not the whole team. The straight red would still an option for serious incidents.

Not a bad idea. That's what they should have tried instead of one yellow equals being removed from the field and having to be subbed. 2008 league was awful due to that!