does your address come into decision by a potential employer???

lgc2010

This has been bugging me alot lately. Myself an my partner have been uneployed for over 2 years and apply for jobs almost everyday, sometimes a few a day, an have never heard anything back. We live quite rural an the distance to the jobs are roughly half hour to one hour jorneys.
Do you think that this would become an issue for a potential employer, we are both experienced in what we apply for and for the ones we are not well they dont exactly need experience to be honest.
Our cv's and cover letter are good so our only worry now is that it is our address!
Could you please give me your opinion or have you experienced anything like this???
Thanks

Cookie_Monster

no experience of it but why wouldn't it to a small degree at least?

It's a bigger risk to hire someone from 1-1.5hrs away than someone from 20 mins from a business point of view, all other things being equal. Travel time, traffic, lateness, weather related no shows (snow making rural roads impassible for example), more likely to leave to find somewhere closer to home would all be factors the employer may need to consider IMO.

now that said it's probably not that big a deal but certainly worth a little consideration I reckon.

avon barksdale

lgc2010 wrote: »

This has been bugging me alot lately. Myself an my partner have been uneployed for over 2 years and apply for jobs almost everyday, sometimes a few a day, an have never heard anything back. We live quite rural an the distance to the jobs are roughly half hour to one hour jorneys.
Do you think that this would become an issue for a potential employer, we are both experienced in what we apply for and for the ones we are not well they dont exactly need experience to be honest.
Our cv's and cover letter are good so our only worry now is that it is our address!
Could you please give me your opinion or have you experienced anything like this???
Thanks

I thought the same.. Until i got a call from the other side of the country asking me to attend for an interview next week..

It might help if you say on your cover letter that you are willing to relocate!

chewed

I heard somewhere that it was illegal for employers to discuss commuting or place of residence with a potential employer!

spoonface

lgc2010 wrote: »

This has been bugging me alot lately. Myself an my partner have been uneployed for over 2 years and apply for jobs almost everyday, sometimes a few a day, an have never heard anything back. We live quite rural an the distance to the jobs are roughly half hour to one hour jorneys.
Do you think that this would become an issue for a potential employer, we are both experienced in what we apply for and for the ones we are not well they dont exactly need experience to be honest.
Our cv's and cover letter are good so our only worry now is that it is our address!
Could you please give me your opinion or have you experienced anything like this???
Thanks

Discrimination does happen. If you're in the wider Dublin area, I can let you use my address for CV's, it's a 'very respectable' area in Dublin and would at least remove this worry from your applications. PM me if this is of any use to you.

lgc2010

I must say cookie monster that the first thing that came into our minds was the snow as it wont be long until its here again and they probably do consider this.
We have tried our house on the market but fat lot of good that did-market is dead!
But I would have thought that taking your place of residence into account was descrimination!???

lgc2010

Thats very thoughtful of you spoonface, but I'm actually in the North West!
Thanks again though!:)

spoonface

lgc2010 wrote: »

But I would have thought that taking your place of residence into account was descrimination!???

Yes it would be, but discrimination can happen openly where it's straight out said to you why you're not chosen. Or it can happen subtly where you just don't get any reply and you've nothing on paper to tell you why you hear no more. For example I know of a company that is deliberately discriminating against people from Nigeria because they are worried about fraud levels in that country. But a Nigerian applicant would never be told this, they just wouldn't receive a reply.

spoonface

lgc2010 wrote: »

Thats very thoughtful of you spoonface, but I'm actually in the North West!
Thanks again though!:)

No problem, maybe you could find a cousin or someone you know who would let you use theirs. The chances are that no post would be sent there, employers would more likely pick up the phone or email you.

kellso81

Take your address off your CVs. It's not needed and employers won't discriminate if it's not there but they might if it is! Just put phone no. and e-mail.
I once worked for a large multinational company who taught us if we were interviewing people it was illegal to ask them where they lived. They suggested getting round this by dropping in sly questions like ' did it take you long getting here today' at the interview and then discriminating against them!!!

n97 mini

Many moons ago I went for a job in Rathfarnham while living in Castleknock. Didn't get it, asked why, told I lived too far away... they felt I'd be looking for something closer and would leave as soon as I got something.

bk

But the question is, is this sort of discrimination even illegal?

While I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that discrimination is perfectly legal, we do it every day when we decide who to hire or not hire.

However there are certain areas where you are not legally allowed to discriminate, these include sex, religion, race.

Nothing to say you can't discriminate on other grounds such as education, training, skills, where a person lives, etc.

Cookie_Monster

bk wrote: »

But the question is, is this sort of discrimination even illegal?

While I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that discrimination is perfectly legal, we do it every day when we decide who to hire or not hire.

However there are certain areas where you are not legally allowed to discriminate, these include sex, religion, race.

Nothing to say you can't discriminate on other grounds such as education, training, skills, where a person lives, etc.

true and very easy to get around by saying the other candidate (etc) was marginally better. How would they ever prove otherwise, next to impossible.

whydoibother?

I suppose it depends on the job too. I definitely remember one instance where a boss of mine was looking at CV's for quite a low paid job. One woman was proposing to drive 1.5 hrs each way. He rejected the CV because he couldn't see how it was worth her while and thought she'll get bored of that pretty quickly. On the other hand it might be deemed "worthwhile" to commute for some jobs. I know people with long commutes to work in Dublin.

If it's so far that you'd need to relocate altogether, I know it's much easier to get a job if you've already done so prior to application, as it shows seriousness. But obviously this is risky and only worthwhile if you're fairly sure of securing something.

-Chris-

Moved to Work & Jobs - not really a commuting issue.

Forest Master

I'm an employer, and I wouldn't necessarily discriminate against distance to travel (unless it was an insane commute that I didn't feel sustainable - it may lead to a lot of tiredness or "sick" days) - but I would discriminate on location. Tallaght, Clondalkin, etc - I wouldn't even interview them TBH.

I know some people may deem that as unfair, when you get 100 applications for 1 job, I really just want to interview 5 or 6, and I have numerous ways of short-listing people - hobbies & interests come into it too, but the main being spelling & grammar errors in their cover letters or e-mails. And if their e-mail address is something like "ManU4lifelol@yahoo.ie", it'll be deleted. These are people I'll have to work with, so I choose carefully, as social is equally as important as the qualification IMO - most people applying are qualified, so that's usually a given anyway!

28064212

bk wrote: »

But the question is, is this sort of discrimination even illegal?

+1. There are 9 characteristics you can't discriminate against:

(2) As between any 2 persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are—
(a) that one is a woman and the other is a man (in this Act referred to as “the gender ground”),
(b) that they are of different marital status (in this Act referred to as “the marital status ground”),
(c) that one has family status and the other does not (in this Act referred to as “the family status ground”),
(d) that they are of different sexual orientation (in this Act referred to as “the sexual orientation ground”),
(e) that one has a different religious belief from the other, or that one has a religious belief and the other has not (in this Act referred to as “the religion ground”),
(f) that they are of different ages, but subject to subsection (3) (in this Act referred to as “the age ground”),
(g) that one is a person with a disability and the other either is not or is a person with a different disability (in this Act referred to as “the disability ground”),
(h) that they are of different race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origins (in this Act referred to as “the ground of race”),
(i) that one is a member of the traveller community and the other is not (in this Act referred to as “the traveller community ground”).

From the Employment Equality Act 1998

Anything else is fair game. If an employer decides he only wants to hire people who wear yellow socks to the interview, that's their prerogative. The only grey area would be "indirect discrimination" e.g. not hiring people from a particular housing estate because a large part of them are foreign

Tabnabs

Forest Master wrote: »

I'm an employer, and I wouldn't necessarily discriminate against distance to travel (unless it was an insane commute that I didn't feel sustainable - it may lead to a lot of tiredness or "sick" days) - but I would discriminate on location. Tallaght, Clondalkin, etc - I wouldn't even interview them TBH.

I know some people may deem that as unfair, when you get 100 applications for 1 job, I really just want to interview 5 or 6, and I have numerous ways of short-listing people - hobbies & interests come into it too, but the main being spelling & grammar errors in their cover letters or e-mails. And if their e-mail address is something like "ManU4lifelol@yahoo.ie", it'll be deleted. These are people I'll have to work with, so I choose carefully, as social is equally as important as the qualification IMO - most people applying are qualified, so that's usually a given anyway!

Lol, I work in a "good address" part of South Co. Dublin and my best employee by far lives in Tallaght. The interesting thing is that Tallaght isn't a prison and people are free to come and go as they like... The celtic tiger also made many average suburbs out of the reach of young families, so they bought where they could afford. I have one friend whose wife comes from "Old Clondalkin" what ever that means and she is both highly educated and well groomed. On of my wife's friends originally comes from a pretty rough part of Tallaght and she is now a senior manager in a large pharmaceutical multinational.

I've also had to let go plenty of goons from "good addresses" because their work ethic stank and they expected me to give them the same easy break that their parents did. A Blackrock education does not necessarily mean a good work ethic.

To answer the OPs question, commute time could be a factor, but I'd rather ask someone face to face if they were willing to commute as it's them who will have to get up earlier and arrive home later so it's their call.

Forest Master

Tabnabs wrote: »

I've also had to let go plenty of goons from "good addresses" because their work ethic stank and they expected me to give them the same easy break that their parents did. A Blackrock education does not necessarily mean a good work ethic.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't hire a stuck-up toff either though - it would be unbearable. I'll elaborate more:

Look - if I get 100 applications for 1 job, I need methods of short-listing so I can interview the 5 or 6 best. I wouldn't delete them JUST because they're from Tallaght - I use 5 or 6 criteria. I listed 3 or 4 already. If their CV is over 2 pages, I delete it because I don't have time to read long CVs, especially people who still leave in their LC results (some even have the JC & LC, as well as part-time jobs from when they were in school!) - this speaks volumes about their aptitude when it comes to being relevant & concise.
Oh, and usually you can search for their e-mail in Facebook - this tells you loads about them, especially if their profile is public.

professore

kellso81 wrote: »

Take your address off your CVs. It's not needed and employers won't discriminate if it's not there but they might if it is! Just put phone no. and e-mail.

This advice might have been useful at the height of the Celtic Tiger but is academic now.

To be honest if I got a CV with no address on it I would wonder is this person just careless or do they have something to hide. Unless it was a very specialised job I would immediately bin it as having to wade through the stacks of CVs you get these days even without advertising a specific job (I have never actually advertised a job or taken on anyone BTW but still get stacks of CVs) you need to have some way of pre-screening.

Oh, and I wouldn't care what the address was, just the fact that it was absent would set off alarm bells.

Forest Master

professore wrote: »

This advice might have been useful at the height of the Celtic Tiger but is academic now.

To be honest if I got a CV with no address on it I would wonder is this person just careless or do they have something to hide. Unless it was a very specialised job I would immediately bin it as having to wade through the stacks of CVs you get these days even without advertising a specific job (I have never actually advertised a job or taken on anyone BTW but still get stacks of CVs) you need to have some way of pre-screening.

Oh, and I wouldn't care what the address was, just the fact that it was absent would set off alarm bells.

Agreed.

I want to e-mail people re an interview - not have to call everyone!

Bandana boy

Forest Master wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't hire a stuck-up toff either though - it would be unbearable. I'll elaborate more:

Look - if I get 100 applications for 1 job, I need methods of short-listing so I can interview the 5 or 6 best. I wouldn't delete them JUST because they're from Tallaght - I use 5 or 6 criteria. I listed 3 or 4 already. If their CV is over 2 pages, I delete it because I don't have time to read long CVs, especially people who still leave in their LC results (some even have the JC & LC, as well as part-time jobs from when they were in school!) - this speaks volumes about their aptitude when it comes to being relevant & concise.
Oh, and usually you can search for their e-mail in Facebook - this tells you loads about them, especially if their profile is public.

So is it your from Tallaght and your CV is over 2 pages or either?

From your post it suggests either in which case you are a bit of a fool for ignorning great candidates based on a perception of their address .

Current CEO of Quantas is from Tallaght and in my previous job I worked with several people from Tallaght ,the Spread of their ability was the same as any other location in Ireland.
In fact degree educated people > 30 from Tallaght probably have a better work ethic than many other areas in Ireland.

By the way I am not from Tallaght and I would throw all the different supposedly rougher locations in Dublin under the same umbrella.

raglan

I'd no experience of this until recently. I applied for a job in a multinational in Louth, had exactly the experience they wanted, I live in a nearby county just 20 minute drive from place I was applying too. I was sure I'd get an interview as there were 3 jobs going. Had to apply through their online portal, days after closing date got reply to say I was unsuccessful. Told someone who used to work in a management position and they said I should have put down a Louth address, as it was probably a HR person in USA who shortlisted candidates and did so with the address being one reason, maybe thinking I'd too far to travel. Have also been told by someone else to put Louth down as address if applying for jobs in Dublin as its still in catchment area.

RATM

Forest Master wrote: »

I'm an employer, and I wouldn't necessarily discriminate against distance to travel (unless it was an insane commute that I didn't feel sustainable - it may lead to a lot of tiredness or "sick" days) - but I would discriminate on location. Tallaght, Clondalkin, etc - I wouldn't even interview them TBH.

I fear for businesses who discriminate on who they hire because they are from a certain area in Dublin. One of the most in demand software engineers I know is from Tallaght, born and bred. This chap regularly commands contract wages of €700 PER DAY around Dublin. Recently I placed a systems accountant (a very rare but in demand skill set) from Clondalkin, without an open mind I would have missed his obvious talents.

There is good and bad everywhere but to find the good discrimating on address is far from an exact science- people live where they live for their own reasons and all employers should be interested in is whether or not they can do the job and how they are going to add value.

donkey balls

I have to agree with the other posters regarding where your from is a load of aul crap if the person can do the work what's the problem with their address,While in school during the 80/90s I was told that your address would be the difference between getting the position or not I've would have taught that we came along way from the bad aul days.
And as for the snobbish crap with people from so-called bad/rough areas, I happen to know many MD /Snr Mgmt and Airline captains from these so called rough areas and they seemed to have made it to the top it's not where your from it's how you are brought up.
Op getting back to your original question I remember while being interviewed for a mgmt position(2nd interview) the director of the company while waiting on the Snr mgr to arrive was just talking me in a general conversation and he asked me did I live far from the company office.
I have heard of one particular company who wont take people on if they live to far away due to the nature of the business being long hours and any commute over 1hr would make it impossible for the people working there to have a suffeint rest between shifts.