Few question on trail building.

Ricky91t

Hey all,

I've a few question, There's a few forestry's round my house. I've checked all entrances there's no warning saying no entry/private property. One of them has a sign saying 'No foliage or tree removal' so this is definitely out of trail building. But the rest have none. Obviously I wouldn't be cutting any trees and would only be cutting/moving wild bushes/weeds and maybe doing a bit of digging to make it a bit more fun but won't be touching roots. There's no signs on the forestry and even If I did ask I'm sure it'd be a no...

So basically would I be all right to weed(kind of!) and make some of the land a bit more MTB friendly without getting into too much trouble?

Thanks!

Tenzor07

You asking the cycling forum for permissions to clear some ground in a forest??

Cookie_Monster

sounds like vandalism to me.

unless you own it, don't touch it!

Tenzor07

This is vandalism: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72950722&postcount=56

clearing paths on potentially private land is just silly and done at your own risk...

Ricky91t

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You asking the cycling forum for permissions to clear some ground in a forest??

I was asking cause cyclist tend to cycle on trails, and last time I checked trails had to be built/maintained/found by someone. I made the assumption that it might be cyclists that do this to some of the trails, so thought it might be a clever place to ask.

Tenzor07

Find out who maintains the trails, speak with the forestry manager, contact local clubs or bike shops...clearing out trails on your own ain't easy so start with the above..

Ricky91t

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Find out who maintains the trails, speak with the forestry manager, contact local clubs or bike shops...clearing out trails on your own ain't easy so start with the above..

Sadly the most local club to me is in a place full of trails so I doubt they'd care. I have friends who'll help me out so that all good, but where would I find the forestry manager? Or even the body that owns the forestry?

Tenzor07

Ask around locally, all commercial forrests are owned by Coilte afaik...

If its a private land owner he should live near by and you may see him around the area...

Morgan

Here are some tips:

http://www.mbi.ie/trail-building-resources/the-unwritten-rules-of-trail-building/

Drop MBI a line if you'd like further info.

ravendude

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ask around locally, all commercial forrests are owned by Coilte afaik...

If its a private land owner he should live near by and you may see him around the area...

Coillte are a lot more receptive now to having a bit of trail-building.
There's so much of it going on now, they almost need to get involved. i.e if you can't beat, join em

Its worth chatting to the forest manager if you can, otherwise you could find half the place is felled due to scheduled felling later on and your work wasted. Unfortunately, there's no central policy or way of going about it.
So, if the local forest manager just can't be arsed you're out of luck unfortunately. Often they won't want to give express permission with a permit but will "indicate" to you that they're willing to turn a blind eye as long as you build things safely. You need to have a bit of tact. Talking about permits etc. might even put them off.

Aside from the issue of getting permission, some things are simply a no-no. Eg. If you put any woodwork in, there's a good chance you'll come along soon afterwards and it'll be all chainsawed. Keep everything fairly natural and don't interfere with streams/drainage.

JMJR

Ricky91t wrote: »

Hey all,

I've a few question, There's a few forestry's round my house. I've checked all entrances there's no warning saying no entry/private property. One of them has a sign saying 'No foliage or tree removal' so this is definitely out of trail building. But the rest have none. Obviously I wouldn't be cutting any trees and would only be cutting/moving wild bushes/weeds and maybe doing a bit of digging to make it a bit more fun but won't be touching roots. There's no signs on the forestry and even If I did ask I'm sure it'd be a no...

So basically would I be all right to weed(kind of!) and make some of the land a bit more MTB friendly without getting into too much trouble?

Thanks!

IHMO the best policy is DADT (dont ask,dont tell)
Dont do anything specifically prohibited by any notices posted that you could not reasonably say you did not see. As others said don't build or import structures (ramps etc), don't block drains or ditches, dont break chains or locks or climb gates, just form the landscape a bit. Lopping or trimming back small branches would probably not get you noticed. If you ask specific permission you will probably run foul of occupiers liability and third party liability insurances which would cost the property owner to take out to cover you if you were given permission to enter and use the land.
all IMHO.

ravendude

JMJR wrote: »

IHMO the best policy is DADT (dont ask,dont tell)
Dont do anything specifically prohibited by any notices posted that you could not reasonably say you did not see. As others said don't build or import structures (ramps etc), don't block drains or ditches, dont break chains or locks or climb gates, just form the landscape a bit. Lopping or trimming back small branches would probably not get you noticed. If you ask specific permission you will probably run foul of occupiers liability and third party liability insurances which would cost the property owner to take out to cover you if you were given permission to enter and use the land.
all IMHO.

Not that I necessarily agree...

A hump of earth can be a lot of things... There's trails all over the place, from walkers, animals etc. There's people doing far more destructive things in woods (drinking, dumping) than a relatively healthy, outdoorsy pursuit like riding your bike.

You can ride and clear a few small branches, briars, maybe have a couple of berms and chances are no one will notice you or care. If you look around and find some natural features, you may actually find there's not too much to do. Obviously, have some respect for the surroundings and try to make it all blend in.
Keep away from walkers paths too in so far as possible.

Quads and dirt bikes are a different ball game altogether as they make utter s**t out of everywhere they go and are infinitely more destructive to the environment.

Tenzor07

Hmm...some cans of worms slowly being opened here regarding legal and environmental, rights issues here... Maybe time to lock this thread up?

Chips Lovell

Just because someone hasn't put up a "no trespassing" sign or whatever, doesn't mean you have a right to go interfering with their property.

I think the link Morgan posted sums up the situation best:

Secondly find out who owns the land you wish to ride on. Some large landowners will have established policies and clear lines of communications, with other smaller landowners some investigating and phone calls might be required in order to figure out who owns what.

Once you have established who the right person is, approach the land owner or land manager and inform them of your intended activities. They should be pretty clear in telling you whether or not they will be supportive and what are the ground rules.

If you proceed to establish trails in an area, either without seeking permission, or carry on even after being refused permission, you are in no position to cry foul when your activities are discovered and your hard work goes to waste.

I'm not an MTBer myself, but from everything I've read over the years, building unauthorised trails is a bad idea. You not only risk creating trouble for yourself, but could also potentially sour relationships between landowners and the mountain bikers who take the time to go about things the right way.

Icyseanfitz

down here in kerry things are a little F***ed when it comes to outdoorsie pursuits, coilte probably wont give you permission due to insurance and crap, landonwers dont want people messing on their land and the general population seems to think bikes are a little childs toy , we could have the best trails in the entire country (killarney national park) but apparently mtb'ers are a destructive and dangerous group.
If i where you id build little trails around those forestry's, the only main mtb club in kerry is killarney so the vast majority of trails will be build with killarney in mind (love you killarney cc better stay on their good side as im with em ha ).
if your building stuff try to keep it at game level (deer trail etc.) so as not to draw too much attention, stray away from big ass road gaps as cool as they are.
Give me a shout if you ever need a hand with anything man

Captain Havoc

My family have forestry here in Kilkenny and my dad is non too pleased that someone went in on a quad recently, leaving gates open and the like. I think if you ask some farmers they'd be grand, if your man on the quad had of asked my dad, he probably would've been grand but the second it becomes apparent that someone is trespassing on our land, I'm usually out fixing fences and putting new locks on gates etc..... We allow the local gun club through.

Icyseanfitz

to be fair though a quad leaves a lot of torn up crap after it (particularly if its wet which it is most of the time in our beautiful country ) compared to say a mtb, my fathers a land owner as well and is never too pleased when people go on his land without permission so i get that, the problem is there are so many bloody land owners that you would be asking for permission for ever until you come to a few unpleasant lads who dont want anything to do with you and ruin your plans,
most forests are coilte owned though so that simplifies the problem, unfortunately the guys in charge in coilte can be either nice or not most of the time not as they dont want any insurance claims from people hurting themselves on their land

Tenzor07

Captain Havoc wrote: »

someone went in on a quad recently, .....

We allow the local gun club through.

Target practice!

Ricky91t

Thanks for the differing views on this! I went for a cycle up through the forestry again and the rows between trees are far too narrow to fit a bike down, So I'll have to reconsider what I'll be doing.

Icyseanfitz

keep looking around man you will find something, what part of kerry you say you where in?

MOSSAD

Appreciate where you're coming from but obviously the land/forest belongs to someone. Why would you think it's ok to go in and start using it as if it was your own? Sounds like the beginning of an attempt to take someone's property!
Go to the local Coillte office-find where their roaded forests are and ask if you can cycle on the forest roads.

greenfingers89

lots of bad advice being given..

you must find the owner and get their permission. if its a coillte forest you would have a chance of getting the unofficial go ahead like mentioned above

however if its privately owned you run the risk of being prosecuted for trespass and criminal damage.

whether your gonna chance it without telling anyone or not you should at least find out who the owner is so you'll have some idea where you stand if problems arise in the future