EU Legality of "whole life sentence"

7sr2z3fely84g5

This gets handed down in the uk at times,but wiki throws up an interesting view on the legality of sentence

In February 2007, the European Court of Human Rights announced that it was considering whether it is a contravention of human rights for someone to be sentenced to lifelong imprisonment If the European judges rule that lifelong imprisonment is a violation of human rights, all prisoners serving whole life orders will have their cases recalled to the courts for a new minimum term to be set.

Such a ruling would be highly controversial in many other European countries where the option for whole-life sentences exists, as some European states have whole-life sentences, whereas others do not. For instance in the Netherlands, when a life sentence is passed, it is always intended to mean "life" and as such there is no possibility for parole. So far, just two Dutch life sentence prisoners have been freed, and it was due to terminal illness in both cases. In Spain, on the other hand, the maximum time anyone can serve in prison is 40 years.

So,have they a good point,would it considered cruel and unusual sentence in eu law?.

sweetafton

Well, my non-legally-qualified opinion is that whole life sentences are cruel and unusual punishment. The idea that nothing you ever do in your life will warrant freedom must be a terrible psychological burden. Prison is for rehabilitation, not punishment as in the 19th century and previous.

blackdog2

sweetafton wrote: »

Well, my non-legally-qualified opinion is that whole life sentences are cruel and unusual punishment. The idea that nothing you ever do in your life will warrant freedom must be a terrible psychological burden. Prison is for rehabilitation, not punishment as in the 19th century and previous.

How can one deal with someone who repeatedly commits heinous crimes such as rape or murder, and where they show no remorse for those crimes. If capitol punishment is outlawed I think that life sentences must mean life.

MrPudding

blackdog2 wrote: »

How can one deal with someone who repeatedly commits heinous crimes such as rape or murder, and where they show no remorse for those crimes. If capitol punishment is outlawed I think that life sentences must mean life.

Is the issue not that there must be a possibility of release? I seem to recall reading an article about this but I can't remember where... What it would mean in practical terms is you would not be allowed to say at the time of sentencing that a prisoner will never be released. There needs to be a procedure in place to allow for their potential release. This procedure could involve, for example, the parole board. if the parole board decided the person was still too dangerous to be released then that was fair enough, as long as a determination was made on independent and objective grounds.

So in theory any prisoner, no matter how heinous his crime, would have the potential to be released, but in practice he might never be released as the parole board would make the determination that he was too dangerous to release into society.

MrP

blackdog2

MrPudding wrote: »

Is the issue not that there must be a possibility of release? I seem to recall reading an article about this but I can't remember where... What it would mean in practical terms is you would not be allowed to say at the time of sentencing that a prisoner will never be released. There needs to be a procedure in place to allow for their potential release. This procedure could involve, for example, the parole board. if the parole board decided the person was still too dangerous to be released then that was fair enough, as long as a determination was made on independent and objective grounds.

So in theory any prisoner, no matter how heinous his crime, would have the potential to be released, but in practice he might never be released as the parole board would make the determination that he was too dangerous to release into society.

MrP

That implies that there is something which can be "cured", after 20 odd years locked in a small room with a few hours of walking time a day. Prison is a good short term deterrent(when actually functioning as such) but when controlled by prisoners its a hotel for those on the right side.I agree that those on long sentences shouldn't be let out, to be honest I am for the death penalty where hard evidence exists, and I think if push came to shove I would be for it in a referendum

axer

You cannot cure Psychopathy (and many other psychological conditions) - at least not yet anyway. Psychopaths (and those with other incurable dangerous mental conditions) who commit heinous crimes should be locked up forever since they cannot be rehabilitated and if they are in the situation whereby they are up for parole they will manipulate their way out of prison. Letting them out because they behave well due to medication is not acceptable as it relies on trusting the prisoner to continue taking the medication on the outside.

Its a pity we do not (from my understanding) have whole life sentences in Ireland - its either that or the death penalty (which I think we do have for capital crimes - anyone confirm?) but I think whole life sentences at least gives the chance of getting out if a massive mistake is made - I think there should be no parole but they should be allowed to challenge their conviction should new compelling evidence arise.

Manach

AFAIK, capital punishment was abolished by a referendum and also it cannot be re-introduced due to signed international conventions.
My opinion, in only a very small subset of cases would life sentences be appropriate, where life is life without parole. This would be in cases were the nature of the criminal act has had such an impact on the victim/families that even the possiblity of parole would be re-ignite their suffering.

blackdog2

Manach wrote: »

AFAIK, capital punishment was abolished by a referendum and also it cannot be re-introduced due to signed international conventions.
My opinion, in only a very small subset of cases would life sentences be appropriate, where life is life without parole. This would be in cases were the nature of the criminal act has had such an impact on the victim/families that even the possiblity of parole would be re-ignite their suffering.

I agree with this, except to add that there needs to be something to keep those who are likely to reoffend locked up as well

Ken.

The easy way around it is to offer parole to people who deserve to be in jail for life. Offer them their first parole hearing on the day they turn 100.

MrPudding

blackdog2 wrote: »

That implies that there is something which can be "cured", after 20 odd years locked in a small room with a few hours of walking time a day. Prison is a good short term deterrent(when actually functioning as such) but when controlled by prisoners its a hotel for those on the right side.I agree that those on long sentences shouldn't be let out, to be honest I am for the death penalty where hard evidence exists, and I think if push came to shove I would be for it in a referendum

It is possible to rehabilitate certain people, and where it is possible, I think it should be tried. I am not sure that there is much evidence to support prison as a short term deterrent. As for the death penalty , I personally don’t think there should be one, ever, on principle. As for hard evidence, you only have to look across the water to the states to see how unreliable “hard evidence” can be. That aside, the chance of Ireland having the death penalty again is so slim as to be hardly worth considering. It would require Ireland to leave the EU for a start.

axer wrote: »

You cannot cure Psychopathy (and many other psychological conditions) - at least not yet anyway. Psychopaths (and those with other incurable dangerous mental conditions) who commit heinous crimes should be locked up forever since they cannot be rehabilitated and if they are in the situation whereby they are up for parole they will manipulate their way out of prison.

I think we have to have a little bit of confidence in the people that are making the decisions. Of course mistakes are made, and that is regrettable, but in the vast majority of cases the correct decisions are made. This is not, as far as I am aware, about definitely releasing prisoners, it is about allowing that a person can change and that some people can be rehabilitated. If a person id a psychopath or has otherwise not been rehabilitated then he should not be released, and the European court is not saying they should be.

axer wrote: »

Letting them out because they behave well due to medication is not acceptable as it relies on trusting the prisoner to continue taking the medication on the outside.

Agreed, and I would expect that any parole board that knew what it was doing would not make a habit of releasing someone who was only not killing people because he was on medication that he could simply stop taking if released from prison.

axer wrote: »

Its a pity we do not (from my understanding) have whole life sentences in Ireland - its either that or the death penalty (which I think we do have for capital crimes - anyone confirm?)

There is no death penalty in Ireland anymore for any crime.

axer wrote: »

but I think whole life sentences at least gives the chance of getting out if a massive mistake is made - I think there should be no parole but they should be allowed to challenge their conviction should new compelling evidence arise.

Having the possibility of parole does not mean they will get parole.

Manach wrote: »

My opinion, in only a very small subset of cases would life sentences be appropriate, where life is life without parole. This would be in cases were the nature of the criminal act has had such an impact on the victim/families that even the possiblity of parole would be re-ignite their suffering.

Whilst we must have sympathy for victims and their families, the key consideration for whether or not someone can be released on parole has to be the risk of re-offending.

MrP

7sr2z3fely84g5

i think a way around this would do a spain by offering 40 years max or USA where can be handed down sentences that span hundred years,so on paper it looks like its not an "whole life sentence".