Appetite for changing Championship format

paulocon

I know it's a bit of an old chestnut that comes up this time every year but I have noticed a growing number of articles recently in relation to changing the championship format to a Champions League format at the expense of the Provincial Championships.

Just wondering what the general concensus on here is about this?

It is something I see happening eventually but not in the near future. I do think the Provincial Championships have lost their appeal particularly with the introduction of the backdoor system. However, they do remain the goal of some of the smaller counties (e.g. Louth) where they represent a real chance of silverware.

There was an excellent article on-line recently that I can't find at the moment but will have a look for. It envisaged 8 groups of 4 with 4 groups playing one week and 4 the next. Group seedings were linked to League form. The top 2 from each group went into a knock-out for sam with the 3rd placed teams progressing into a shield competition.

The idea really appealed to me as it guaranteed 3 games at least and as a concept, I think it could be promoted heavily by the GAA. From a fan's point of view, I suppose one of the issues I have with the current system is that you spend the winter months watching League football but the summer season can be over in a couple of weeks.

The other good thing about the idea is that it would provide fixed dates and would allow club championships run in parallel with it.

Interested to see what others think of these ideas..

UpTheSlashers

I wouldnt mind seeing the Provincial Championships being played in place of the current leagues, maybe the provincial championships could be in league form. Then the current Championship could be replaced with the "Champions League" style AI Championship.

Pros: Every county gets at least 3 Championship games. Counties still compete for Provincial Championships.

Cons: Would be fairly difficult to implement, especially for the relatively incompetent Association which organises our sports. Provincial Championships may become less prestigious.

legendary.xix

I've been drawn into this discussion way too many times. All I'll say is, at a minimum, provincial winners should have home tie for quarter-finals. Provincial finalists should have home tie for the final round of qualifiers.
Round 1 and 2 losers should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup as s secondary competition for the rest of the summer. Every team is then guaranteed at least 3 games in the summer. Some so-called big teams might treat the TMC with disdain but while they test out fringe players, other counties can use it for a run of games and to work on the progression.

padd b1975

legendary.xix wrote: »

I've been drawn into this discussion way too many times. All I'll say is, at a minimum, provincial winners should have home tie for quarter-finals. Provincial finalists should have home tie for the final round of qualifiers.
Round 1 and 2 losers should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup as s secondary competition for the rest of the summer. Every team is then guaranteed at least 3 games in the summer. Some so-called big teams might treat the TMC with disdain but while they test out fringe players, other counties can use it for a run of games and to work on the progression.

Provincial champions will always want to play their quarter finals in Croke Park so that part of your suggestion is probably a non runner. TMC unfortunately was not really taken seriously despite playing latter part of the competition as curtain raisers to AI semi finals which in my opinion caused an inferiority complex in the participants. My solution is a controversial one, I propose a return to straight knock out for Championship, as of now in the current format it is dying slowly with provincial championships almost worthless. To counteract the lack of games I propose to expand the league to include both home and away ties, play it from early March through to start of Championship with blue ribbon games on Easter weekend. This would be marketed properly and the hype created and tensions created by teams playing each other possibly 3 times in quick succession would only further enhance the Championship. This trimming of the Championship would mean it would be possible to move the finals forward to the month of August leaving the rest of the year for club championship. Straight knock out served the GAA more than adequately for 100 plus years and could do so again, the current format is not working and is really just a square peg in a round hole.

ormond lad

lay the provincial championships as independent comps at start of summer(end of may-middle of june). straight knock out, no replays. completed in 3 or 4 weeks max.
give a few weeks to club competitions in each county
start all ireland round robin start of july, champions league style. football 8 groups of 4
teams that finish 3rd,4th in group play off for tommy murphy cup and teams that finish 1st, 2nd play off for sam maguire

this gives each county 5 games minimum in championship and with plenty of time for club chamionships

Leroy Lita

ormond lad wrote: »

lay the provincial championships as independent comps at start of summer(end of may-middle of june). straight knock out, no replays. completed in 3 or 4 weeks max.
give a few weeks to club competitions in each county
start all ireland round robin start of july, champions league style. football 8 groups of 4
teams that finish 3rd,4th in group play off for tommy murphy cup and teams that finish 1st, 2nd play off for sam maguire

this gives each county 5 games minimum in championship and with plenty of time for club chamionships

there's no way you could get all provincial championships finished in 3 or 4 weeks. for instance, in Leinster, a team may have to play 4 weeks in a row which isnt on.

whats the point in having provincial championship's if there gona be seperate from the actual football championship.

Prop Joe

The championship is grand the way it is..why would teams after losing twice want another game?? The Champ is beautiful the way it is,Clare got knocked out this weekend but finished the season on a high,there were lovely success stories for London,Offaly & Wicklow.Carlow will be happy with a Leinster Semi appearance as were Leitrim beating Sligo,The Champ is all about the small victories and whatever Champ Lge system ye want to implement only safe guards the big boys into the Quater Finals..realistically how many major European sides have ever failed to progress out of the Champ Lge group stages?

Syferus

Walk before you try to run. The GAA needs to get their crazy scheduling in order next year and see how it effects teams, particularly those in Connacht and Munster who suffer the most from drawn out calendars.

I'd favour reshuffling teams in the pre-existing provincial system before ever entertaining the thought of a more radical and, honestly, unrealistic format. The GAA ain't known for its love of insituational change.

bm1993

IMO slight changes need to be made to the current format. Play the provincial championships as usual and play qualifiers round 1 and 2. That will leave 16 teams ie 4 provincial winners 4 runners up and eight qualifiers. In the round of 16 give the provincial winners home advantage against the 4 lowest qualifiers based on league position. The 4 runners up will also get home advantage against the remaining qualifiers. After that have the quarters in Croker. The advantages of this system are that it would not be a disadvantage to win your province and it would give many second rank teams like Limerick Roscommon Louth etc a chance to win something. The losers of round 1 and 2 could play in the Tommy Murphy Cup.

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

play the provincial championships as independent comps at start of summer(end of may-middle of june). straight knock out, no replays. completed in 3 or 4 weeks max.
give a few weeks to club competitions in each county
start all ireland round robin start of july, champions league style. football 8 groups of 4
teams that finish 3rd,4th in group play off for tommy murphy cup and teams that finish 1st, 2nd play off for sam maguire

this gives each county 5 games minimum in championship and with plenty of time for club chamionships

Leroy Lita wrote: »

there's no way you could get all provincial championships finished in 3 or 4 weeks. for instance, in Leinster, a team may have to play 4 weeks in a row which isnt on.

whats the point in having provincial championship's if there gona be seperate from the actual football championship.

inter county gaa teams do so much fitness, gym training these days they would be well able to play 3-4 weeks in a row.

having the provincial championships run off seperately to the all ireland isnt that big a deal, most of the bigger countys, the kerrys, dublins dont particularly care about winning in their province they want an all ireland but to the louths, tipperarys, etc winning a munster or leinster football title would make their year. For many of the successfull countys the allure of winning a provincial title has been lost under the current system.
Im sure the clare footballers are delighted that they(they havent a hope against down) will not play another intercounty game till 2012 and will only play 2 championship games this year.
Yes some countys will be happy with reaching a provincial semi or final they were not expected to but how many of these teams continue on through the qualifiers,not many.. they put so much into the provincial championship that when they play a week or two later for their survival in the championship they normally can get no where near their best as they are still in a hangover from losing the big game
my method allows teams put all that effort into the provincial championship but when they lose be it first round or final they start the all ireland as a new competition,a new start

Syferus

ormond lad wrote: »

inter county gaa teams do so much fitness, gym training these days they would be well able to play 3-4 weeks in a row.

having the provincial championships run off seperately to the all ireland isnt that big a deal, most of the bigger countys, the kerrys, dublins dont particularly care about winning in their province they want an all ireland but to the louths, tipperarys, etc winning a munster or leinster football title would make their year. For many of the successfull countys the allure of winning a provincial title has been lost under the current system.
Im sure the clare footballers are delighted that they(they havent a hope against down) will not play another intercounty game till 2012 and will only play 2 championship games this year.
Yes some countys will be happy with reaching a provincial semi or final they were not expected to but how many of these teams continue on through the qualifiers,not many.. they put so much into the provincial championship that when they play a week or two later for their survival in the championship they normally can get no where near their best as they are still in a hangover from losing the big game
my method allows teams put all that effort into the provincial championship but when they lose be it first round or final they start the all ireland as a new competition,a new start

These are all amateur players and it's more than a little taxing to keep up with the extra sessions in the DVD room, tactics and training that go into the lead up to any major inter-county match, let alone something as tribal and weighted with history as the provincial championships and remainon top of your day job. It's never just about raw fitness.

It's still notable when teams play two championship matches in successive weeks, so to think it's reasonable to be running the provincial championships off at that sort of pace is a bit wide of the mark.

Fentdog84

No. i think provincial championships hold too much prestige and history to be done away with. The interest wouldnt be held if that happened. Think of the local derbys Cork v Kerry(Football) Dublin V Meath, Galway V Mayo, Tyrone V Armagh, Cork V Tipp(Hurling) and pretty much all munster hurling clashes..and leinster to a point..an open draw would destroy the AI championship..anyway the backdoor system is in itself an open draw so I dont see any point in messing with the curret system it would only ruin the nostalgia of the provincial championships..leave whats well alone..

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

inter county gaa teams do so much fitness, gym training these days they would be well able to play 3-4 weeks in a row.

having the provincial championships run off seperately to the all ireland isnt that big a deal, most of the bigger countys, the kerrys, dublins dont particularly care about winning in their province they want an all ireland but to the louths, tipperarys, etc winning a munster or leinster football title would make their year. For many of the successfull countys the allure of winning a provincial title has been lost under the current system.
Im sure the clare footballers are delighted that they(they havent a hope against down) will not play another intercounty game till 2012 and will only play 2 championship games this year.
Yes some countys will be happy with reaching a provincial semi or final they were not expected to but how many of these teams continue on through the qualifiers,not many.. they put so much into the provincial championship that when they play a week or two later for their survival in the championship they normally can get no where near their best as they are still in a hangover from losing the big game
my method allows teams put all that effort into the provincial championship but when they lose be it first round or final they start the all ireland as a new competition,a new start

Syferus wrote: »

These are all amateur players and it's more than a little taxing to keep up with the extra sessions in the DVD room, tactics and training that go into the lead up to any major inter-county match, let alone something as tribal and weighted with history as the provincial championships and remainon top of your day job. It's never just about raw fitness.

It's still notable when teams play two championship matches in successive weeks, so to think it's reasonable to be running the provincial championships off at that sort of pace is a bit wide of the mark.

If not one week after the other, have a 1-2 week break between pelim,1/4 finals and the semis/final.
take the leinster football championship, the biggest provincial competition. Play first and second rounds one week after the other, have a one/two week break and then play the semi final and final.
The top GAA players train as if they were professional athletes.(they certainly do enough training to be pros) Professional athletes play a high amount of games in a short period of time, so the top GAA players should be well able to cope

Prop Joe

Colm Cooper said recently that 3 weeks between games is perfect,a week to recover,a week to train,and a week to prepare.I think the system is fine at the moment.I think all teams take the provincial serious just watch the Munster Final this Sunday.

UpTheSlashers

Why did they abandon the Tommy Murphy Murphy Cup which involved teams who were eliminated in the early rounds of the championship?