Vintage Omega

Eoin

I've been toying with the idea of a vintage Omega, as I've always liked the brand, and I think some of the older ones might make a nice change from the chunky chronograph style of watch that I tend to go for.

But... I've been looking mostly on eBay. Is this just an outright bad idea, and likely to get me a fake?

Here's a few of the ones that caught my eye:

Omega Geneve 1

Omega Geneve 2

Omega Geneve 3

Omega Seamaster 1

Omega Seamaster 2

Omega Seamaster 3 - "Cosmic Unishell"


PS I did do a search, but the other threads were pretty old

m4r10

I wouldn't know much about what to look for in terms of Omega fakes, but with high value items is important you buy the seller in the first place. Make sure you go through the neutral and negative feedbacks and get an idea of the problems enocuntered by the seller and how were resloved.

In terms of the watches themselves, I'm sure somebody more knowledgeable than me will chime in. Good luck with the hunt!

marcus1971

There are great deals to be had on ebay and if you are going the vintage route, with the type of watch you have linked you are unlikely to get stung with a fake, even the more expensive vintage Omegas pie pan constellations etc.(which if 100% factory are usually VERY expensive) are at worst redials or frankens - but still utilising 100% Omega parts, if you are not buying as an investment just buy whatever you like for the looks/mechanics of it.

I would personally steer clear of the Geneve line of watches altogether, these were the bottom of the range in the Omega line-up when they were released and while they usually are the same under the skin sometimes the dials do not age well, they tend to suffer from pitting and lacquer peeling etc.

You linked a few Quartz watches too - If the ticking hand doesn't bother you there are lots of good Omegas that pop up every now and then for around the $200-$300 mark.

But if you DO want to buy something cheap that could be a possible investment and has a funky retro feel to it you might consider looking at the Dynamic line up from the 70'ies - Or a Polaris (the Polaris line is starting to move up in value) - the f300s have that mesmerising seconds hand sweep and their value might see a jump over the next couple of years-but they need to be well serviced and parts are getting scarce, lots to consider.

Wibbs

+1 to everything marcus1971 wrote. Bang on the money. The only ones I'd steer clear of without really knowing what you're doing would be 60's seamaster 300's http://scubawatch.org/hallofshame.html. I'd also echo his Dynamic and Polaris advice if you're looking for value down the line.

Eoin

That's great info, thanks very much! I'm guessing that a "redial" is a watch like this one that's had a restored or aftermarket dial put in? That one, and this one are really what I'm looking for.

I'm not in a rush at all (I've another purchase on its way anyway!), so I'll keep an eye out.

Eoin

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 to everything marcus1971 wrote. Bang on the money. The only ones I'd steer clear of without really knowing what you're doing would be 60's seamaster 300's http://scubawatch.org/hallofshame.html. I'd also echo his Dynamic and Polaris advice if you're looking for value down the line.

Just saw this - thanks very much. That is normally the type of watch I'd go for, but I'm looking for something a bit simpler from this one - like the two I've linked to above.

marcus1971

Eoin wrote: »

That's great info, thanks very much! I'm guessing that a "redial" is a watch like this one that's had a restored or aftermarket dial put in? That one, and this one are really what I'm looking for.

I'm not in a rush at all (I've another purchase on its way anyway!), so I'll keep an eye out.

While its no doubt those vintage Omegas you linked are fine looking watches you should bear in mind a few things things with those particular two:

The black dial Seamaster IS a redial or repainted dial (and the seller states it as such), its not a great redial, ok at best, the steel indices are a bit scuffed looking but its the minute marks and "swiss made" that would put me off, remember it looks ok in the pic but once YOU notice the flaws it will draw your eye to them EVERY single time you look at it (if you are like most WIS types that is)
.... also consider with a redial, even the best redial possible, the paint on your watch has faded or changed its tone over the years (more likely with bold colours like blacks and less likely with sunburst dials like silver .. they will all yellow slightly as a result of the lacquer ageing) but the redial has fresh paint, while the original paint has bottomed out in terms of fading now at 40 or 50 years the fresh paint has only started to fade and will change colour drastically over the next 3-5 years, ok if the whole dial has been painted, and not just touched up,with professional quality paints-- but if it was a sham with cheap paint and an airbrush it might not last well at all.

Its listed as +/- 2 minutes a day...... That is a big cop out on behalf of the seller, if it was more like 20 seconds/day it wouldnt be great for a serviced watch (if it really was serviced at all)...but for a watch of that age it would be acceptable... ALWAYS budget for a service, dont trust the seller, whatever they say, to have serviced it.

Pay careful attention to the crown ... these are usually chrome plated and on a handwind will usually be worn unless replaced at some point, once the replacement is signed Omega its OK.

The hands on the Seamaster 30 don't look (to me anyways) as the hands that should be on that watch, they are too new to be original considering the dial was repainted the hands were most likely ratty too and replaced... the hands on this look to be from an explorer dial style Seamaster the one you listed would more likely have had pencil style hands.... I wouldnt pay anything over 200 euro for that watch based on the description, and its already past that with 2 days to run

Research your movements ... while a handwind is almost essential for a classic dress watch, a lot of handwound watches are old, well thats what you want right?, but research your movements, some older ones had NO shock protection and a decent knock means a busted balance staff... a common thing in the 50's when the watch was new, but now with scarce parts etc its an expensive repair...if you can even get parts without buying a whole donor watch... or go for a bumper or full automatic with shock protection.

The Cosmic you listed looks good all around ....but, one thing to consider about unishell watches (or monoblock) there is only one way to get the movement out and thats through the glass.... the crystal comes out the stem is then pulled out (just a bit of force) and the whole movement comes out through the front, there are a couple of problems with this and they are that the acrylic does get brittle with age and can break apart even if using the Omega special tool and the crown may become a little too easy to pull out with age, the one you listed looks like it had an easy life though, nice watch.

Another thing to consider and this is not a racist comment BUT, I always steer clear of buying vintages from hot countries like any of the South American for one simple reason, a watch that is not waterproof and has been on a sweaty arm for 40 years in a hot ,hot, humid country will most likely be affected by moisture breaking through the seals and entering the watch (unishells ok here though), this is clear from the larger number of badly pitted/lacquer peeled dials from those countries.... the unseen damage is to the movement which WILL be affected by even the slightest amount of moisture EVER entering the case

And the last thing to remember to do is ALWAYS open the case whan you get the watch and have a good sniff at the innards .... a well oiled watch has a very distinctive smell BUT some chancers will do a quick service by blasting the movement with WD40, it blasts the dirt off, makes it shiney for the photos and gets a lazy watch ticking .... for a couple of months and then it WILL stop, long after you have left feedback of course.

...... lots of learning to do but the rewards of getting a mint vintage with many decades left to go is well worth it.

Lots of great deals to be had on ebay, I've gotten Omegas for a little over $100 and even a Rolex Oyster Date for $400 and both were 100% original and mint, but you WILL spend your life looking at the listings...... EVERY SINGLE DAY

Eoin

Wow, that's great information; thanks a million Marcus. I'm more than happy to take a good while to find something nice, so I'll read up on all those aspects you mentioned. Thanks again

Eoin

Just to keep my options open - are there any similar brands I could keep an eye out for?

I've seen some nice Longines and Ebel ones that look pretty nice.

peasant

Eoin wrote: »

are there any similar brands I could keep an eye out for?

If you want to test the vintage waters at a slightly lower price, you could scour ebay.de for "GUB" ...that's Glashuette watches made in the GDR.

They do have the occasional gem there and those watches were pretty good quality, just the reputation wasn't what it is now (socialism and all that) hence they are that bit cheaper.

Example:

peasant

Eoin wrote: »

Omega Seamaster 3 - "Cosmic Unishell"

If you really like that style and shape (I don't ) you might be interested in the odd vintage (Russian) Poljot (for far less money)

http://cgi.ebay.ie/POLJOT-17-JEWELS-RUSSIAN-SOVIET-MENS-WRIST-WATCH-/120667550678?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c1858b3d6

http://cgi.ebay.ie/POLJOT-17-JEWELS-RUSSIAN-SOVIET-MENS-WRIST-WATCH-/120667289520?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c1854b7b0

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Vintage-russian-made-Poljot-mens-wristwatch-17-jewels-/180687135632?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item2a11cae390

http://cgi.ebay.ie/vintage-Russian-Watch-POLJOT-DATE-17Jewels-Unusual-Dial-/190476073676?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2c59423acc

if you actually don't like that style and shape and were simply drawn by the Omega name ...then please forget I ever mentioned the unmentionables :D:D

marcus1971

You could try a GP...
http://cgi.ebay.com/OROLOGIO-GIRARD-PERREGAUX-MANUALE-ANNI-60-ACCIAIO-/400225716147?pt=Orologi_da_Polso&hash=item5d2f4fc7b3

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Girard-Perregaux-Seahawk-Mens-SS-Watch-Rare-/120735960425?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c1c6c8d69

B&M

http://cgi.ebay.com/Baume-Mercier-acciaio-uomo-carica-manuale-nuovo-new-/310324091629?pt=Orologi_da_Polso&hash=item4840c1daed

Tudor

http://cgi.ebay.com/14K-GOLD-BEZEL-TUDOR-PRINCE-OYSTERDATE-SWISS-AUTO-WATCH-/270764147619?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3f0acd03a3

http://cgi.ebay.com/TUDOR-Vintage-Oyster-Prince-MEN-S-SS-Watch-7995-0-/110698483719?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item19c624d007

http://cgi.ebay.com/TUDOR-PRINCE-OYSTERDATE-2784-25JEWELS-AUTO-MEN-WATCH-/120744110784?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c1ce8eac0

Fortis

http://cgi.ebay.com/FORTIS-5607-24-46-Mens-SS-Automatic-ETA-2824-17J-BIG-/370521981649?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item5644d4c2d1

http://cgi.ebay.com/MEN-FORTIS-AUDAX-RARE-SWISS-MANUAL-A1-50S-MEGA-SALE-/110703558387?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item19c6723ef3

And more Rados than you can shake a stick it out of the east for between 80$ and $500 for the vintages

Wibbs

Just one word of warning E, if you're used to a chunky chrono the majority of vintage watches are small by todays standards. 40mm is rare, more like 30-35 for dress watches. On a bigger wrist they can look odd to current fashions eyes. It gets better when they get into the 70's, but before small is the way of most. The bigger vintage models can have a serious premium pricewise. If I were you I'd try on a couple of 30-35mm sized watches to see how they sit on your wrist.

Eoin

peasant wrote: »

if you actually don't like that style and shape and were simply drawn by the Omega name ...then please forget I ever mentioned the unmentionables :D:D

Yep, think it was just the name, those aren't for me! The black GUB you posted earlier was more like what I'm looking for.

marcus1971, thanks for those links - lots to consider. I really like this tudor you posted.

Though I'm thinking of reducing my budget a little for this watch, as I've my eye on a new watch I'd like as well. This Longines might do the trick.

Wibbs - that's a great point. I've a big wrist, and used to chunky chrono style watches, so an older watch might take some getting used to.

marcus1971

If its a bit of Swiss history for small money you could also consider Ernest Borel, old school Swiss manufacturer, were considered high quality in their day - they used to guarantee their watches for life if serviced properly until they were wiped out with the quartz stuff in the 70ies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Borel
http://www.finertimes.com/asp/watches/manufacturer.asp?code=14

Their older stuff sells now for practically nothing on ebay (around $100 up to Max $200), they have lots of different styles to cover most vintage tastes, one of the more popular collector styles seems to be the "mystery $ kaleidoscope cocktail watch", which is a bit fancy and probably more suited to women (if even!!)

They also have a lot of the more standard looking vintage all rounder, like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-swiss-made-ERNEST-BOREL-17J-mens-watch-50s-/190551439689?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2c5dc03949

or the Tudor/Rolex Air King style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ERNEST-BOREL-2878-17JEWELS-SWISS-MADE-AUTO-MEN-WATCH-/160611945031?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item256537ca47

Or their newer (probably under new ownership) Rolex Day/Date style:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGER-ERNEST-BOREL-PRESIDENT-SWISS-MADE-MINT-DIAL-BAND-/270775839968?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3f0b7f6ce0

or:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ERNEST-BOREL-2-Tone-DAYDATE-Swiss-2834-Auto-Men-Watch-/170662392101?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item27bc457125

The last two ight not really be true vintage, depending on how far back you would consider vintage to be, as far as I am concerned anything that has an acrylic crystal pretty much ticks the vintage box.

Vintage Tissot Visodates can go for under $200 here and there and are another nice looking cheap vintage watch and look pretty similar to the new reissue.

Never going to set the world on fire, but nice looking older watches for less than the price of a cheap quartz in Argos.

Eoin

marcus1971 wrote: »

They also have a lot of the more standard looking vintage all rounder, like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-swiss-made-ERNEST-BOREL-17J-mens-watch-50s-/190551439689?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2c5dc03949

Thanks again for the ideas - this one is a great example of what I'm thinking of.

marcus1971 wrote: »

Vintage Tissot Visodates can go for under $200 here and there and are another nice looking cheap vintage watch and look pretty similar to the new reissue.

Never going to set the world on fire, but nice looking older watches for less than the price of a cheap quartz in Argos.

I'll keep an eye out for them - this one looks pretty nice

shawnee

marcus1971 wrote: »

If its a bit of Swiss history for small money you could also consider Ernest Borel, old school Swiss manufacturer, were considered high quality in their day - they used to guarantee their watches for life if serviced properly until they were wiped out with the quartz stuff in the 70ies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Borel
http://www.finertimes.com/asp/watches/manufacturer.asp?code=14

Their older stuff sells now for practically nothing on ebay (around $100 up to Max $200), they have lots of different styles to cover most vintage tastes, one of the more popular collector styles seems to be the "mystery $ kaleidoscope cocktail watch", which is a bit fancy and probably more suited to women (if even!!)

They also have a lot of the more standard looking vintage all rounder, like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-swiss-made-ERNEST-BOREL-17J-mens-watch-50s-/190551439689?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2c5dc03949

or the Tudor/Rolex Air King style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ERNEST-BOREL-2878-17JEWELS-SWISS-MADE-AUTO-MEN-WATCH-/160611945031?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item256537ca47

Or their newer (probably under new ownership) Rolex Day/Date style:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGER-ERNEST-BOREL-PRESIDENT-SWISS-MADE-MINT-DIAL-BAND-/270775839968?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3f0b7f6ce0

or:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ERNEST-BOREL-2-Tone-DAYDATE-Swiss-2834-Auto-Men-Watch-/170662392101?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item27bc457125

The last two ight not really be true vintage, depending on how far back you would consider vintage to be, as far as I am concerned anything that has an acrylic crystal pretty much ticks the vintage box.

Vintage Tissot Visodates can go for under $200 here and there and are another nice looking cheap vintage watch and look pretty similar to the new reissue.

Never going to set the world on fire, but nice looking older watches for less than the price of a cheap quartz in Argos.

Really liked that two tone ernest Borel 2834 that you mentioned. Put a bit of 81 on it when it was only making 51, thought I had it but it made an extra euro and I was out. Disappointed . Let me know if you see another like it. Thanks.

enda1

This omega looks quite nice to me.

What should I look out for if going to see it. I guess the strap is not original or is it?

Also is the price reasonable?

(Not sure if its ok to add this to this thread, but I can start a new one if y'all prefer.)

Wibbs

I wouldn't touch that one with a bargepole Enda. It's not one of the military ones. Note you'll see he says "military style". Common double speak and if you see it usually it means run a mile. It's had a refinished dial to purposely give it the military look. Even down to the (wrong) broadarrow symbol under Omega. The hands aren't original, they don't even match and it's also the wrong case for a military one and the crown is a replacement. Most of all it's way overpriced for a put together lash up intended to mislead.

For not much more you'd source a real military issued one with actual resale value. Actually for a 100 quid less you could buy this http://cgi.ebay.ie/Omega-Royal-Air-Force-Watch-6B-159-2292-Cal-30-T2-SC-/220809782646?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item336949e576 A real 1940's RAF issued Omega centre seconds wristwatch, of better quality all across the board.

Here's another http://cgi.ebay.ie/WWII-OMEGA-RAF-PILOTS-ISSUE-6B-WRISTWATCH-1943-ALU-CASE-/180688139187?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item2a11da33b3

Just one thing though Enda these watches are all small by todays standards. 30-31mm across where most watches today are 10 mm larger. They look good on the wrist, just different. Unless you're one of these muscley buggers with wrists like fenceposts.

enda1

Thanks a lot Wibbs.
Must say that I don't know so much about particulars of watchsmithing, but I like the style of the watch.

The ones you linked to are lovely, but its the black dial that I was really after.
I'll have to stay content with my Rotary I got off boffer one day, for the moment I think. I do like the smaller watch though, in the lower thickness and simpler presentation (without date, month etc.)

Maybe I need to broaden my search away from this particular military Omega from the 40's and I'll find something more suited?

Wibbs

Leave that with me...

Wibbs

OK here's a black dialed mil watch. Bigger sized and serviced. http://cgi.ebay.ie/SERVICED-WWII-GERMAN-MILITARY-HELVETIA-PILOT-WATCH-37MM-/360378993290?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item53e8430a8a

Here's a whole set of pages of them http://www.finertimes.com/asp/watches/query.asp?Title=Military+Watches&Where=%28TypeCode=9%29&TypeCode=9

Maybe have a look in there and something might pique your interest?

enda1

This is what the feckers were copying I guess.

This is nice. Simple and lovely. I remember from university I think, one of the professors saying that old watches used to use uranium salts to give the glow in the dark properties. Do you think a watch of this era (even specifically this one ^) could using this?

Wibbs

Possibly. Well probably if it didn't have the radium paint removed in the past. Id not worry too much about the radiation TBH. The levels reaching the wearer would be small enough and would be more of a concern for a watchmaker. That particular example looks like it's had the paint replaced with the modern non radioactive paint.

As for the design, that was part of a WW2 military spec(one of many). The Germans had a similar design. Black face, no date, solid strap bars among other specs. The Cyma is a good un BTW.

CarltonBrowne

Enda

As Wibbs had remarked the dial on that Cyma has been significantly altered. If you are seriously looking at one of the dirty dozen watch, wrist, waterproof (Omega made one of them) then you should use these three articles by Thomas König and Adrian Van Der Meijden as a guide.
http://www.freewebs.com/billyschorr/adrian%20pdf/WWW1%5B1%5D.pdf
http://www.freewebs.com/billyschorr/adrian%20pdf/WWW2%5B1%5D.pdf
http://www.freewebs.com/billyschorr/adrian%20pdf/WWW3%5B1%5D.pdf
Take particular note of things like the standard differences between the manufacturers serial number and the military issue number. These are more and more collectible and unfortunately there's too much money to be made by constructing fakes and frankens.

Austin Kaye in London frequently get military pieces through their hands though, of the two on there now, the Smiths is overpriced by about £200 and the 53 is a little above the prices bandied about here so far. If I remember correctly they had an Omega WWW a few months back around the £8-900 mark.
http://www.austinkaye.co.uk/Military-183_0_c.aspx