So you thought the Club Orange ad was demeaning....welcome to Spain...

Eve_Dublin

Hi ladies,

This ad has recently been put up in all the Metro stations here in Madrid. If you think advertising directed at women is vicous in Ireland, you should come and live in Spain. This ad is for gastric bands and this ad is what I have to see everyday as I walk down the stairs to get my Metro. I don't know about you, but this ad says to me, "If you're fat and unattractive like this women...well, we can help you...". And they wonder why Spain has the highest rate of eating disorders in Europe? Obsessed doesn't even begin to describe the culture of the body here. I try to not let it bother me...but this kind of thing makes me so angry.

Here's the link to a photo someone else took for their blog:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SACk_U7ikAM/TgA9ekZ-uoI/AAAAAAAABps/U3ZhViovxik/s1600/SNC00295.jpg

Scarinae

I was a bit surprised by the accompanying text - they've included 'soltera' (single) and 'dificultad en las relaciones sociales' (difficulty in social relationships). Way to prey on people's self-loathing. Getting a gastric band won't suddenly get you a relationship or make you a social butterfly.

They also claim it to be a definitive solution - of course they're not going to mention the various medical risks of gastric bands in an advertisement, but it is not as straightforward as they make it appear. Gastric bands should only be a last resort, not a quick fix.

Giselle

The not so subtle subtext is you can't POSSIBLY be happy if you're fat, and your life will fail. Because how you look is the single most important thing about you.

Sadly theres a lot of truth in that because of how people perceive the very obese. Perceptions reinforced by advertising of this calibre.

Its an extreme ad in every way. Extreme imagery, extreme copy, and extreme claims implied. Its also extremely offensive.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

why is it offensive?

the woman in that poster is not a normal size, she's not a little over weight.. she's not even quite a bit overweight. It's very rare for people of either gender to find that attractive.

Giselle

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

why is it offensive?

the woman in that poster is not a normal size, she's not a little over weight.. she's not even quite a bit overweight. It's very rare for people of either gender to find that attractive.

Its offensive because that ad is blatently aimed at making her feel even worse about the things you describe, which are all true, for their profit. Its not encouraging, its not gently suggesting a possible last chance solution, its stating that her life's happiness is down to her weight, and they have the answer.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yes, it's an advertisement not a support group. That's exactly what it's supposed to do.

The High King

I don't particularly see a problem here, but that's probably because I'm a man. €177 seems like a bargain to me.

metrovelvet

This kind of stuff does not phase me at all. I see stuff lke this all the time on NYC subways.

Is it news to you that advertising preys on insecurity? Oldest trick on Madison Avenue. You suck, buy this. That's what it comes down to.

No one likes fat, its the last of the seven deadly sins [gluttony] to be considered a sin.

doesn't faze me either I have to say
I mean... she's not just a bit overweight. And it is an ad, it wouldn't be doing very well advertising gastric bands with a skinny model in the picture. That'd be worse too.

YFlyer

I'm sure they got her consent to put up her picture.

Macha

It's annoying because they've deliberately put her on the ad naked and un-airbrushed (probably the only female I've ever seen not airbrushed in an advert) with the intent of shaming her and others like her.

It's like holding up a mirror and saying "Look how absolutely revolting and disgusting you are. You can't possible be happy or in a relationship".

I don't think that type of messaging should be allowed, just because it's put up by a private business trying to make money - which seems to be the standard defence these days.

Edit: YFlyer - this is exactly the same argument as the Club Orange ad. "She got paid, didn't she?" Honestly, I'm not really bothered about the individual in the photo (although I'm sure this can't be helping her psychologically..), I'm worried about the messages involved.

Scarinae

The High King wrote: »

€177 seems like a bargain to me.

That's per month, I think, it doesn't say how long for though

krudler

Macha wrote: »

It's annoying because they've deliberately put her on the ad naked and un-airbrushed (probably the only female I've ever seen not airbrushed in an advert) with the intent of shaming her and others like her.

It's like holding up a mirror and saying "Look how absolutely revolting and disgusting you are. You can't possible be happy or in a relationship".

I don't think that type of messaging should be allowed, just because it's put up by a private business trying to make money - which seems to be the standard defence these days.

Edit: YFlyer - this is exactly the same argument as the Club Orange ad. "She got paid, didn't she?" Honestly, I'm not really bothered about the individual in the photo (although I'm sure this can't be helping her psychologically..), I'm worried about the messages involved.

To be fair though, you'd wonder just how many morbidly obese (which the girl in the ad is) people are actually happy with themselves and think of themselves what you're saying the ad is saying about them. Theres actually a thread about gastric bands right here on boards:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055071821

Thats straight from the horses mouth, people who are deeply unhappy about their weight and health and took gastic band surgery to help it, and even flicking through the thread a lot of people found their confidence growing once the weight started coming off.

As a sidenote, I think its refreshing to see someone with the condition the ad is selling the solution for (whether it is the only solution is a whole other debate, lets assume it is for this point) , how many spot cream ads or Clearsil commercials show people with perfect skin aside from 1 barely noticable (badly done with makeup) spot, you never, ever see people with real acne in those ads, why? This is an ad for something to help mobidly obese people, and theres a morbidly obese person in the ad.

lace

This ad isn't as offensive as the Club Orange ad (though I didn't find the Club Orange ad itself offensive as it was very tongue-in-cheek, the only problem I have is that it's being shown at a time where children are highly likely to see it).

People who are morbidly obese already know they have a problem, struggle with relationships etc. It's not as if the ad is lying about that. It's true. It shows the lady as unhappy because many people of that size are unhappy (not to mention unhealthy). Yes, she could be airbrushed to look smooth and pretty, but it wouldn't hide the face that her size is abnormal.

Marketing the idea that every woman should be super-sexy and super-skinny isn't healthy. Particularly when children see it and take it on board. Where's the harm in children seeing that obesity is a serious problem that makes life very difficult?

The Sweeper

Giselle wrote:

Its not encouraging, its not gently suggesting a possible last chance solution, its stating that her life's happiness is down to her weight, and they have the answer.

I agree - It worries me because it's not the answer. Health is beginning to see the quick fix fallout from gastric banding. It doesn't apply to all patients, but picture this: to become morbidly obese, you have to do a lot of eating. Eating past the point of being sated. Eating until you're sick. Your whole life has to be eating and drinking. Something has to drive that, and it's rarely a love of food.

Morbid obesity is often a manifestation of deep misery, unresolved issues, self hatred, so on. However once huge size is achieved, the focus changes to the weight. It's now the weight that's the problem, and if I could just be thin again...

Health services are seeing some gastric banding patients indulge in other self destructive behaviours (again, not all of patients, but some) because they can no longer overeat. These behaviours include drug addiction, alcoholism, self harm and so on.

premierlass

The Sweeper wrote: »

I agree - It worries me because it's not the answer. Health is beginning to see the quick fix fallout from gastric banding. It doesn't apply to all patients, but picture this: to become morbidly obese, you have to do a lot of eating. Eating past the point of being sated. Eating until you're sick. Your whole life has to be eating and drinking. Something has to drive that, and it's rarely a love of food.

Morbid obesity is often a manifestation of deep misery, unresolved issues, self hatred, so on. However once huge size is achieved, the focus changes to the weight. It's now the weight that's the problem, and if I could just be thin again...

Health services are seeing some gastric banding patients indulge in other self destructive behaviours (again, not all of patients, but some) because they can no longer overeat. These behaviours include drug addiction, alcoholism, self harm and so on.

This is why such ads are so troubling. This is a highly risky surgery that is being sold as a quick fix to vulnerable people by preying on their weaknesses. Even accepting the argument that this is standard advertising practice, it can't really be compared to selling Clearasil to teenagers.

Catari Jaguar

Anyone else see the perfect figure on the girl that took the pic? She's reflected against the ad. Oh irony...

the_syco

cherub rock wrote: »

Anyone else see the perfect figure on the girl that took the pic? She's reflected against the ad. Oh irony...

[sarcasm]OMG, a picture of a fat person, these people should be...[/sarcasm]

I wonder what part of the ad that offended the woman: the selling of the gastric band, or the womans size.

YFlyer wrote: »

I'm sure they got her consent to put up her picture.

Paid: likely. Told what the ad was going to be about: unlikely. I do hope the woman in the picture is happy about her current weight (whatever it is), or the picture may hurt her.

amacachi

The Sweeper wrote: »

I agree - It worries me because it's not the answer. Health is beginning to see the quick fix fallout from gastric banding. It doesn't apply to all patients, but picture this: to become morbidly obese, you have to do a lot of eating. Eating past the point of being sated. Eating until you're sick. Your whole life has to be eating and drinking. Something has to drive that, and it's rarely a love of food.

Sorry but that's bull****. I eat 2-3 times a day, it just happens that it's all crap and I'm what they call medically obese. Are you/have you been severely overweight because if not it's annoying to see someone do a poor psycho analysis of something they've not experienced and if you have then it's annoying to see someone assume that everyone in a situation got there the same way.

Bottle_of_Smoke

The Sweeper wrote: »

I agree - It worries me because it's not the answer. Health is beginning to see the quick fix fallout from gastric banding. It doesn't apply to all patients, but picture this: to become morbidly obese, you have to do a lot of eating. Eating past the point of being sated. Eating until you're sick. Your whole life has to be eating and drinking. Something has to drive that, and it's rarely a love of food.

Morbid obesity is often a manifestation of deep misery, unresolved issues, self hatred, so on. However once huge size is achieved, the focus changes to the weight. It's now the weight that's the problem, and if I could just be thin again...

Health services are seeing some gastric banding patients indulge in other self destructive behaviours (again, not all of patients, but some) because they can no longer overeat. These behaviours include drug addiction, alcoholism, self harm and so on.

Agree to an extent about how obesity comes about. However the person now has two problems - the root cause and the obesity. So I don't see the problem with getting rid of one of them through the surgery and focusing on the root cause later.

Is there evidence the people are turning to drugs/alcohol because they can't overeat? As those people could have had those problems in addition to obesity to begin with. I am a bit biased because someone close to me is very obese and also an alcoholic

premierlass

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Agree to an extent about how obesity comes about. However the person now has two problems - the root cause and the obesity. So I don't see the problem with getting rid of one of them through the surgery and focusing on the root cause later.

It's just that - from my small knowledge of the subject - it's only one part of an extensive health programme. The ad quite clearly portrays it as a definitive solution, which is false and misleading.

Lia_lia

She doesn't look very Spanish anyway.

strobe

cherub rock wrote: »

Anyone else see the perfect figure on the girl that took the pic? She's reflected against the ad. Oh irony...

That was very deliberate I would have thought? Can't say I see any irony.

The Sweeper

amacachi wrote: »

Sorry but that's bull****. I eat 2-3 times a day, it just happens that it's all crap and I'm what they call medically obese. Are you/have you been severely overweight because if not it's annoying to see someone do a poor psycho analysis of something they've not experienced and if you have then it's annoying to see someone assume that everyone in a situation got there the same way.

You know all the bits in what I wrote where I emphasised that it's "not all patients"? Why don't you assume those bits apply to you. You became medically obese through a different path than overeating, you just eat normally but you eat complete crap.

And as for the poor psychoanalysis - apparently I'm not the only one pulling this alleged bullshit out of my ass. The clinical term is "addiction transference".

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/20/bypassing-obesity-for-alcoholism-why-some-weight-loss-surgeries-increase-alcohol-risk/

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2006/11/30/think-gastric-bypass-surgery-is-the-quick-fix-think-again/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article4312000.ece

http://www.lapbandguide.com/addiction-transference-and-Lap-Band-Surgery.html

Bottle_of_Smoke

premierlass wrote: »

It's just that - from my small knowledge of the subject - it's only one part of an extensive health programme. The ad quite clearly portrays it as a definitive solution, which is false and misleading.

Would be good to know what kind of set up the clinic is. Like I wonder do they have a duty of care like a hospital would or is it more like a place that does boob jobs.

In a way it is a definitive solution, but only for the weight loss. As you're suggesting, and the links The Sweeper just posted, weight problems are more than just about getting rid of fat tissue. I definitely think Gastric Band type stuff should be regulated more heavily than cosmetic surgery.

Handsome Bob

I'm struggling to understand the value of the poster. Why does she have to be naked? Could the same point not have been made with her clothes on and by standing sideways? Did they think the sight of her naked body would shock the obese into helping themselves, even though it's something they see in the mirror every day?

Yet another ill conceived tactic in the fight against obesity.

pickarooney

Is there an after poster?

Fishie wrote: »

I was a bit surprised by the accompanying text - they've included 'soltera' (single) and 'dificultad en las relaciones sociales' (difficulty in social relationships). Way to prey on people's self-loathing. Getting a gastric band won't suddenly get you a relationship or make you a social butterfly.

Well, on the other hand, at least she has a job (two, if you count modelling) which is better than 20% of the Spanish workforce.

Wibbs

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yet another ill conceived tactic in the fight against obesity to make a quick buck from a quick fix.

FYP.

amacachi wrote:

Sorry but that's bull****. I eat 2-3 times a day, it just happens that it's all crap and I'm what they call medically obese

Like in anything it's down to the individual and down to the degree of the condition involved. There's medically obese according to BMI which can be way off and there's morbidly obese to the degree you can barely walk 100 yards. To get to medically obese is pretty easy. Like you say A just eating crap 3 times a day will get you there. To get to morbidly obese requires a fair bit of effort, beyond the point of being lazy/making bad food choices.

ztoical

The issue with ads like this is that they don't effect the morbidly obesse. Someone who has reached the point were they need surgry will most likely get it via their countries health board [not counting countries like the states of course] In Europe the private clinics like this one advertisting this proceedure are making their money from people who would be classed as overweight and verging on obesse not the morbidly obesse. People for whom a proper doctor would never suggest surgry for. I know at least two people who've had this surgry in Europe because they couldn't get it here. Two people who would at most be overweight but no were near obesse or morbidly obesse. This add isn't praying on morbidly obesse people, someone whose that size is not going to be taking public transport for starters. It's aimed at insecure women who are carrying a few extra pounds but are so obessed with weight and appearance they will have a major operation performed by clinics that have little regulation.

The Sweeper

The hospital I work in gets a fair few lap banding surgery queries - I think it originated as something of a quick fix for health reasons as well as cosmetic. There are a lot of morbidly obese Aussies in their 50s and it appears to be the decade where your weight comes to haunt you. In your 20s it may not have been a problem, in your 30s and 40s it'd be something you'd do something about at some stage, and suddenly in your 50s you start getting some chest pain and you have various other symptoms and if you're lucky, you get to the doctor before your heart attack and the onset of diabetes. Your doctor then gives you the ultimatum - lose weight or die.

So you spend about a year trying to lose the weight, but over 20 years of bad habits are really hard to break just on your own. Maybe you drop a few kilos, but it's not enough to get you out of the high risk zone.

...and eventually you end up on a lap banding waiting list.

I used to work in the surgical pre-admission section of our hospital. We have an upper BMI limit of patients suitable for surgery at our hospital. Patients with a BMI of 38 or 38 would get extremely defensive when their weight was brought up as an issue. What struck me most when we started to review their eating habits was the incredible amount of empty calories they consumed in a day. Fizzy drinks were the standout item that blew my mind. We had patients who drank 2 x 2-litre bottles of coke a day. That's about 1,600 calories. They said they 'didn't like the taste' of diet, disliked water and wanted sometimes to hydrate them.

amacachi

The Sweeper wrote: »

You know all the bits in what I wrote where I emphasised that it's "not all patients"? Why don't you assume those bits apply to you. You became medically obese through a different path than overeating, you just eat normally but you eat complete crap.

Fair enough, but it doesn't take a huge amount of excess calories on a consistent basis to get to a very high weight.

Wibbs wrote: »

Like in anything it's down to the individual and down to the degree of the condition involved. There's medically obese according to BMI which can be way off and there's morbidly obese to the degree you can barely walk 100 yards. To get to medically obese is pretty easy. Like you say A just eating crap 3 times a day will get you there. To get to morbidly obese requires a fair bit of effort, beyond the point of being lazy/making bad food choices.

I think I count as super-obese or something but I can walk 100 yards just fine. :pac: An extra coupla hundred calories a day over the course of a few years and a big lack of activity is all it takes to get a huge amount of weight on. No addiction here. :pac:

Logical Fallacy

In my opinion gastric bands will solve very little in the long term. It's nice to drop some cash and solve a problem, but people don't tend to build up the mental structures to deal with confidence issues in the first place. I'd say there will be reasonable carry over where they drag the lack of confidence on to some other issue.

Sure, you got a band and you fixed the problem...for now.

One lesson i really took from my Personal Trainer days was people really have no idea the kind of work it takes to make a strong, solid, physical change. And you can't just do that **** for 6 weeks and be "fit" for the rest of your life.

You bust you ass, everyday, you sacrifice, everyday. That's what it takes.

If you think about it, a gastric band is something you resort to because you feel you cannot control yourself in that way...that's just depressing all of it's own.

Eve_Dublin

ztoical wrote: »

The issue with ads like this is that they don't effect the morbidly obesse. Someone who has reached the point were they need surgry will most likely get it via their countries health board [not counting countries like the states of course] In Europe the private clinics like this one advertisting this proceedure are making their money from people who would be classed as overweight and verging on obesse not the morbidly obesse. People for whom a proper doctor would never suggest surgry for. I know at least two people who've had this surgry in Europe because they couldn't get it here. Two people who would at most be overweight but no were near obesse or morbidly obesse. This add isn't praying on morbidly obesse people, someone whose that size is not going to be taking public transport for starters. It's aimed at insecure women who are carrying a few extra pounds but are so obessed with weight and appearance they will have a major operation performed by clinics that have little regulation.

This is what was going through my mind. This is Spain were talking about here...the only overweight people you see (I'm talking about adults here) are tourists or non-nationals and even then, it's so rare to see someone that big...in fact, I never have and I spend a lot of time on public transport and wandering around generally. The vast majority of people are slim and particularly the women (you'd see middle-aged men with beer bellies). I doubt the woman in the ad is Spanish (blonde hair being a give away).

This is a country obsessed with weight...if they've any real problem here it's the number of young women I see with Anorexia. Now I'm not the kind of person to label someone whose very slim and fit as "skin and bones"...my own sister was Anorexic for years and I see at least 2 women a day who are identical to how she looked during her worst years. These women believe they're fat...they might even believe they need a gastric band. Introduce me to a woman whose happy with their weight and I'll give you a a fiver. I walked by the ad again today, ironically placed right beside an ad for Elite Model agency and in my head (I'm about a size 10 overall...on the larger side in Spain I might ad) I was comparing myself to the morbidly obese woman and not the woman in the photo for the ad whose size I'd be closer to.

When you have this kind of crap shoved in your face everyday, you subconciously start thinking stuff that never entered your head before. The Cult of the Body is out of control here...I've got one class that all the women (6 students out of 8) are on the Ducan diet and that's considered totally normal and nothing shameful. I'm about 2 sizes bigger than all of them (remind you again, size 10).

Yes she got paid well (I believe she's not Spanish though and perhaps didn't even pose for the advert but that's missing the point completely. They're targeting a country of slim people with no major obesity problem among adults but who are body obsessed. This is not a public health warning, it's a business trying to make a quick buck off the insecurities of an aesthetically insecure culture. It wouldn't be allowed in Ireland.

28064212

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

This is not a public health warning, it's a business trying to make a quick buck off the insecurities of an aesthetically insecure culture.

Exactly. Which is why I can't understand most of the posts in this thread. It's an advertisement, not an unbiased analysis. I don't expect O2 to tell me about the downsides of their service

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

It wouldn't be allowed in Ireland.

Why not? Are there false claims in there (I can't read Spanish)? On what grounds would it be banned?

Malari

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

This is what was going through my mind. This is Spain were talking about here...the only overweight people you see (I'm talking about adults here) are tourists or non-nationals and even then, it's so rare to see someone that big...in fact, I never have and I spend a lot of time on public transport and wandering around generally. The vast majority of people are slim and particularly the women (you'd see middle-aged men with beer bellies). I doubt the woman in the ad is Spanish (blonde hair being a give away).

This is a country obsessed with weight...if they've any real problem here it's the number of young women I see with Anorexia. Now I'm not the kind of person to label someone whose very slim and fit as "skin and bones"...my own sister was Anorexic for years and I see at least 2 women a day who are identical to how she looked during her worst years. These women believe they're fat...they might even believe they need a gastric band. Introduce me to a woman whose happy with their weight and I'll give you a a fiver. I walked by the ad again today, ironically placed right beside an ad for Elite Model agency and in my head (I'm about a size 10 overall...on the larger side in Spain I might ad) I was comparing myself to the morbidly obese woman and not the woman in the photo for the ad whose size I'd be closer to.

When you have this kind of crap shoved in your face everyday, you subconciously start thinking stuff that never entered your head before. The Cult of the Body is out of control here...I've got one class that all the women (6 students out of 8) are on the Ducan diet and that's considered totally normal and nothing shameful. I'm about 2 sizes bigger than all of them (remind you again, size 10).

Yes she got paid well (I believe she's not Spanish though and perhaps didn't even pose for the advert but that's missing the point completely. They're targeting a country of slim people with no major obesity problem among adults but who are body obsessed. This is not a public health warning, it's a business trying to make a quick buck off the insecurities of an aesthetically insecure culture. It wouldn't be allowed in Ireland.

The times I've spent in Spain I've noticed that they are mostly very slim as well, but what makes you think that it is all as a result of weight obsession and not healthy eating or just natural small frames? Is anorexia more common in Spain per capita?

Honestly someone who is a size 10 and compares themselves to a morbidly obese person rather than a size 6 model is the person with weight issues?

metrovelvet

28064212 wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why I can't understand most of the posts in this thread. It's an advertisement, not an unbiased analysis. I don't expect O2 to tell me about the downsides of their service


Why not? Are there false claims in there (I can't read Spanish)? On what grounds would it be banned?

I can't see it being banned here. It wouldn't appear here because there is no market for it.

premierlass

28064212 wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why I can't understand most of the posts in this thread. It's an advertisement, not an unbiased analysis. I don't expect O2 to tell me about the downsides of their service


Why not? Are there false claims in there (I can't read Spanish)? On what grounds would it be banned?

I don't understand your first point. Is it that advertising is exempt from criticism purely because it is technically legal? Or that all things are equal when it comes to making a buck or two? The point was already made that advertising is generally exploitative. I would counter that there is a point where it gets dangerous as well as ethically repugnant, and in fact that is where advertising standards legislation usually comes in.

28064212

metrovelvet wrote: »

I can't see it being banned here. It wouldn't appear here because there is no market for it.

Meh, it's advertising. One of its aims is to create a market.

premierlass wrote: »

I don't understand your first point. Is it that advertising is exempt from criticism purely because it is technically legal? Or that all things are equal when it comes to making a buck or two? The point was already made that advertising is generally exploitative.

Gastric banding can have negative consequences. Are you expecting a gastric-banding business to have an advertisement announcing those consequences?

premierlass wrote: »

I would counter that there is a point where it gets dangerous as well as ethically repugnant, and in fact that is where advertising standards legislation usually comes in.

On what grounds would that ad be banned in Ireland? That it exploits fat people? That charge hasn't been used against any of the dozens of other ads that work on the same principle

lace

There's a difference between ads which tell girls that they must be skinny and ads which tell people they must not be morbidly obese.

The woman in that advert is an unhealthy and abnormal size. I don't understand what's so wrong with pointing out that this size not healthy? Bariatric surgery isn't just a cosmetic measure - it's usually done because the health of the person is at serious risk if they do not lose weight.

ztoical

28064212 wrote: »

On what grounds would that ad be banned in Ireland? That it exploits fat people? That charge hasn't been used against any of the dozens of other ads that work on the same principle

The ad would be banned here because the clinics that offer this service would never be allowed to be set up here. There are meant to be stricit guides in place for anyone looking to have a gastric band or by pass [usually a very high BMI and evidence of failure of weight loss with traditional diet and excerise] It's the reason so many people go from Ireland to Belgium and Spain to have this done as they would never meet the standards set to have it done here. While yes you can have a gastric band fitted and adjusted in Ireland they won't do it on people that fall into the overweight or obesse brackets...no GP would send someone who could loose the weight via hard work and excerise to get a band fitted so instead you get people going overseas. As I said before I know two people who've had this done and both have had all sorts of issues due to poor after clinic care and both had to travel back [one to Beligum, the other Spain] to have the bands looked at....neither has lost a great deal of weight as a result as they eat the same crap they ate before....a band is not a by pass, it simple stops you eating large pieces of food but you can just blend it all and have it in liquid forum.

28064212

ztoical wrote: »

The ad would be banned here because the clinics that offer this service would never be allowed to be set up here....

Interesting post, but the legality of the service is irrelevant. Obviously you can't advertise an illegal service, but if it was legal here, I don't see a problem with the ad

premierlass

28064212 wrote: »

Meh, it's advertising. One of its aims is to create a market.

You've just answered your own questions. The object is to make people feel they need this highly invasive operation whether they need it or not.

This is a medical issue, not a cosmetic one. Very few people would be approved for it by an ethical, regulated medical system.

To treat it as cosmetic is dangerous, unethical and repugnant in the extreme.

28064212

premierlass wrote: »

You've just answered your own questions. The object is to make people feel they need this highly invasive operation whether they need it or not.

And the purpose of a Toyota ad is to make people feel like they need a Corolla whether they need it or not

premierlass wrote: »

This is a medical issue, not a cosmetic one. Very few people would be approved for it by an ethical, regulated medical system.

I agree. But the problem is not with the advertisement, it's with the law

lace

If this were an ad for a private clinic in Ireland which only operated on people who meet all the necessary criteria in this country (certain bmi, health risks, proof that conventional weight loss is not an option etc) would there still be objections to it?

ztoical

28064212 wrote: »

Interesting post, but the legality of the service is irrelevant. Obviously you can't advertise an illegal service, but if it was legal here, I don't see a problem with the ad

The treatment is legal in Ireland [gastric bands] but it is illegal to advertise most medical treatments in Ireland. The advertising of medical services is something that is controversial at best and is strictly controlled in many countries but not enforced in others. As I can't read spainish I can't use this ad as an example but a high number of cosmetic treatment ads published in French magazines would be deemed illegal in the UK and Ireland for the claims they make.

I don't think something like this should be advertisted as it does lead to abuse of a medical proceedure that is of use to some people. As I said in the last post it is only meant to be for people at a certain BMI and meeting other criteria. I would like to see actual numbers from these types of clinics as to the BMI's of the people they perfom this operation on as I'm pretty the vast majority are no were near the BMI of the women they show in their ad. These treatments are meant to be last option treatments for people who've been given very short life expectancies without it not for middle aged women who are carrying a few extra pounds. Clinics like this treat gastric banding as cosmetic surgery when it is not that at all.

ztoical

lace wrote: »

If this were an ad for a private clinic in Ireland which only operated on people who meet all the necessary criteria in this country (certain bmi, health risks, proof that conventional weight loss is not an option etc) would there still be objections to it?

The advertising of medical treatments is strictly controlled in Ireland it's higly unlikely they would ever be allowed advertiste such treatments in the same manner, if at all.

Count Duckula

Surely this reflects more on society's view on fat people than it does on women?

metrovelvet

Count Duckula wrote: »

Surely this reflects more on society's view on fat people than it does on women?

If it were a picture of a man than yeah...but it's a woman and it's an ALONE woman, which is the real fear it plugs into for women. Not teh fat, but the fat will lead you to being alone...

Elle Collins

Count Duckula wrote: »

Surely this reflects more on society's view on fat people than it does on women?

+ 1

I think it reflects society's view on fat people more so than fat women in particular, but I also think the photo features a woman because women are targeted for their physical insecurities more so than men. And I think the reason for that is because it is representations of female physical perfection that are shoved down our throats more so than male.

Logical Fallacy

Elle Collins wrote: »

+ 1

I think it reflects society's view on fat people more so than fat women in particular, but I also think the photo features a woman because women are targeted for their physical insecurities more so than men. And I think the reason for that is because it is representations of female physical perfection that are shoved down our throats more so than male.

(Generalisations disclaimer : I am not talking about all men and women i just couldn't be bother righting in all the required caveats for the various points i am making below )

I have to be honest and say i think the mechanism for making women and men feel insecure is vastly different. Thinking about it logically the ideal of an attractive woman is used to sell products to both males and females. Why is this?

I think it's because you can make a woman insecure by showing her what she is not or at the very least an idealised version of what she "should try to be", you can make a man insecure by showing him what he doesn't have or at least an idealised version of what he should try to have.

With regards to this ad, i reckon is really just being aimed at women simple because non-essential surgery is far less taboo for a woman than a man. A woman getting a face lift or a breast augmentation will not be frowned at the way a man getting peck implants of whatever. He'll just be considered a sad bastard.

We also need to look at the fact that 90% of all cosmetic surgery is paid for by women. The advertisers know exactly who they are aiming the ad at. It would make zero sense from a business perspective to have a man in the ad because that's only one tenth of your historical customer base. Women definitely get targets a lot more...because the numbers back up such actions.

southsiderosie

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

This is what was going through my mind. This is Spain were talking about here...the only overweight people you see (I'm talking about adults here) are tourists or non-nationals and even then, it's so rare to see someone that big...in fact, I never have and I spend a lot of time on public transport and wandering around generally. The vast majority of people are slim and particularly the women (you'd see middle-aged men with beer bellies). I doubt the woman in the ad is Spanish (blonde hair being a give away).

This is a country obsessed with weight...if they've any real problem here it's the number of young women I see with Anorexia. Now I'm not the kind of person to label someone whose very slim and fit as "skin and bones"...my own sister was Anorexic for years and I see at least 2 women a day who are identical to how she looked during her worst years. These women believe they're fat...they might even believe they need a gastric band. Introduce me to a woman whose happy with their weight and I'll give you a a fiver. I walked by the ad again today, ironically placed right beside an ad for Elite Model agency and in my head (I'm about a size 10 overall...on the larger side in Spain I might ad) I was comparing myself to the morbidly obese woman and not the woman in the photo for the ad whose size I'd be closer to.

When you have this kind of crap shoved in your face everyday, you subconciously start thinking stuff that never entered your head before. The Cult of the Body is out of control here...I've got one class that all the women (6 students out of 8) are on the Ducan diet and that's considered totally normal and nothing shameful. I'm about 2 sizes bigger than all of them (remind you again, size 10).

Yes she got paid well (I believe she's not Spanish though and perhaps didn't even pose for the advert but that's missing the point completely. They're targeting a country of slim people with no major obesity problem among adults but who are body obsessed. This is not a public health warning, it's a business trying to make a quick buck off the insecurities of an aesthetically insecure culture. It wouldn't be allowed in Ireland.

I saw a girl who looked EXACTLY like the girl in that ad out walking a dog in Madrid the other day. It was quite startling because you rarely see people that heavy here.

Overall I think Spaniards are much slimmer and more small-framed than people in Ireland, but their obesity rates for the elderly and for children are rising dramatically, and overall they have more overweight people than in other Mediterranean countries. Plus outside of the core of major urban areas (especially in the south) you do see more overweight people.

Given that on every block in the Madrid city center there is a pharmacy or shop with an ad for hair removal (which seems to be a national obsession) or thigh cream, I guess using a person with visible cellulite in an advertisement is meant to be shocking, but...I don't know, I can't really get that worked up about this. And I am relatively big by Spanish standards.

The first time I lived in Spain, I lost a stone without doing any kind of exercise, or even making a conscious effort. Fresh produce is very cheap here, it's easy to walk everywhere, and even taking the Metro requires navigating several sets of stairs. When I left Spain, I moved to Ireland and six months later (again without any conscious effort) gained the weight back. So regardless of fad dieting, I do think that there is something about the lifestyle here, especially if you live in an urban center without a car, which leads people to be smaller than in Ireland or the US.