Was not home when social welfare called, what now?

daithi09

So I've found myself in a crappy situation. I finished college(on the btea) four weeks ago and made a repeat claim for the JA. I used my address which I'm in the process of moving back to(moved closer to college during the academic year). However my current contract is not up until the 30th of this month and I have being staying there some nights, i spent most of last week in my college accommodation. I returned Friday afternoon to a letter from the 'external control unit' saying they had called several times and I was not available for interview and if I would oblige them by coming into an interview Friday morning(which I obviously missed). The letter was dated from the Thursday. I find this unusual as I've only being claiming for four weeks now. Anyway what happens now? Can I lose my payments for not staying were at this address all the time? It's very stressful as I cannot afford to live without these payments. I'm not sure why I was targeted? Or if it is just random?
Please help if you can. Thanks

martinmcdonnell

Just tell them you were staying over at your girlfriends house cause she was sick or something. It's none of their business what you are doing 24/7.I don't think you are expected to sit in hall waiting for them to knock at your door.

daithi09

I'm not sure how it works, are you not supposed to be in the house you are living in? I don't want to go telling lies. I was just thinking of telling them that I am half living there and moving stuff down, that my current contract is not finished until the 30th and that I do spend the odd night there also..? Is that fraudulent? God, I'm going to be homeless.

mrsbyrne

daithi09 wrote: »

I'm not sure how it works, are you not supposed to be in the house you are living in? I don't want to go telling lies. I was just thinking of telling them that I am half living there and moving stuff down, that my current contract is not finished until the 30th and that I do spend the odd night there also..? Is that fraudulent? God, I'm going to be homeless.

Your not going to be homeless. First thing Monday morning go down to wherever you were supposed to go for the interview. Simply tell them the truth, no stories about sick girlfriends or anything else.. Be apologetic, it was your mistake, you didnt deliberately mislead anyone, but it is your mistake nonetheless.No they dont need, or want, to know what you are up to 24/7, but you do need to be living at the address you say you are living at, they need to be able to contact you there, within a reasonable time frame. You gave them certain details, one of them being your address, on which your claim was awarded. If these details change, you need to inform them. Its as simple as that.

chicksticks

tell them you were not at home because you were out looking for a job simples

daithi09

thanks for your help, honesty is the best policy, hope i get on ok.. what do you do when the social welfare stop giving you money? I'd literally be broke, my overdraft is maxed as it is with rent..

Graces7

daithi09 wrote: »

thanks for your help, honesty is the best policy, hope i get on ok.. what do you do when the social welfare stop giving you money? I'd literally be broke, my overdraft is maxed as it is with rent..

As we are having CWO issues, we checked this with our lawyer; they are not allowed to visit without an appointment. They do; many of us know that. But legally speaking that is not allowed.

Heartfelt sympathy re this; my RA has been suddenly stopped and
I am challenging them on this as it took seven months to get it and ny credit card is maxed.

If they arrive at the gate today, it will not be opened.

maryk123

If they arrive at the gate it will not be opened- is that not a case of not co-operating. Cant get into the house cant assess the need. The CWO is paying the rent/mortgage but cant get in to see who is living there etc and ask questions????????????

They can call without appointments isnt that the whole point of the call.

This is how fraud is found - not can I call so you can make sure you are there.

Reality sometimes isnt nice but unfortunately this is how it works. I cant understand people want help from their CWO but when they are doing their job eg calls and ask akward questions suddenly they are out to get everyone. Reality time the money isnt there for all this.

Wait until they move to social welfare in October discretion will be gone out the window ha ha - you will have social welfare officers calling with a lot more power. Its going to get interesting.

To answer the OP question why didnt you just tell them where you were living and this wouldnt have happened. You could have just transferred your address when you moved at the end of the month. See they call to see are you living there without an appointment - if they made an appointment you would have met them there even though you arent living there and this fraud. They are just doing they job and finding out people are claiming where they are not living - job done...

daithi09

Sorry MaryK123, that is my address, I am living there, the house is empty except for me and most of my belongings, I just did not stay there the night in question, and a few other nights. I told the social welfare today what was going on and they said it was fine and they'd call out again. Also I'm not claiming for rent allowance so it is me who is paying for the rent albeit out of my social welfare money. If I'm there they will of course be invited in but I'm not going to worry about missing there call, I'm not under house arrest nor should I be expected to sit in and wait for them to call. I do often visit friends in Dublin and stay over night and to be honest to stay sane I try to get out of the house as much as possible during the day, which is when they call I presume, 9-5 and all that.

Anyway thanks for every bodies help, and criticism.

maryk123

I wasnt criticising you but you stated in the original post that you were not living there that you were in the process of moving.
anyway glad you got sorted.

daithi09

Sorry maryk123, in my first post I did say that, however I am staying at my new address most of the time, and that is why I though it was appropriate to put that one down. It's pretty much a few nights I was wrecked so ended up staying in the college accom. Anyway I hope it's sorted, I'l find out tomorrow when I try to pick up the money.

Graces7

maryk123 wrote: »

If they arrive at the gate it will not be opened- is that not a case of not co-operating. Cant get into the house cant assess the need. The CWO is paying the rent/mortgage but cant get in to see who is living there etc and ask questions????????????

They can call without appointments isnt that the whole point of the call.

This is how fraud is found - not can I call so you can make sure you are there.

Reality sometimes isnt nice but unfortunately this is how it works. I cant understand people want help from their CWO but when they are doing their job eg calls and ask akward questions suddenly they are out to get everyone. Reality time the money isnt there for all this.

Wait until they move to social welfare in October discretion will be gone out the window ha ha - you will have social welfare officers calling with a lot more power. Its going to get interesting.

To answer the OP question why didnt you just tell them where you were living and this wouldnt have happened. You could have just transferred your address when you moved at the end of the month. See they call to see are you living there without an appointment - if they made an appointment you would have met them there even though you arent living there and this fraud. They are just doing they job and finding out people are claiming where they are not living - job done...

No one can enter your home without your permission. They are not the Gestapo.

The point of making an appointment is to prevent wasted time and to make sure you are not eg out shopping or visiting etc.

Last time this CWO came withoout an appointment, I said no to a house visit that day because she needed to make that appointment.
There was some trouble with a breka in that day and the Gardai were expected.

That was accepted. I talked with her at the gate.

There is a limit to being pushed around.

Del2005

They are just trying to see if you are living at the premises you claim you are. If you answer the door when they call, it's a fair assumption you live there. You can ask them to come back at a more suitable time if they want access.

IMO If you insist on an appointment for them to knock on the door, then it would be a logical conclusion that you don't live there.

Graces7

Del2005 wrote: »

They are just trying to see if you are living at the premises you claim you are. If you answer the door when they call, it's a fair assumption you live there. You can ask them to come back at a more suitable time if they want access.

IMO If you insist on an appointment for them to knock on the door, then it would be a logical conclusion that you don't live there.

Not at all.. we are not prisoners! It is unreasonable to make wrong assumptions like that. In my case, I am disabled and semi bedbound so I need and expect proper notice of any visits. But I do have to be out at times. And as I said, there is a limit to how far we allow ourselves to be pushed around.

The Housing dept also were very polite and made a time to come.

When I first applied, for RA, I was given the wrong place and address for the CWO clinic three times; the town is now a long distance and I cannot take pain medication if I am driving. The office kept telling me to wait four hours etc etc etc, so I said no on medical grounds. Else would be ill for days and that is unreasonable of them to expect that. When I told them that they accepted it and we have corresponded by email since then.

Often we get what we deserve from these people.

The forms are very comprehensive and there are many ways to check without these tactics.

This is not the first time an unexpected visit has "failed" because we were out etc and we have always found ways to sort it.

ArseBurger

daithi09 wrote: »

I don't want to go telling lies.

You've already lied, why stop? There no such thing as 'kinda fraud'.

ArseBurger

Graces7 wrote: »

No one can enter your home without your permission.

Nope. Customs officers can. And other officials in certain circumstances.

Graces7

ArseBurger wrote: »

Nope. Customs officers can. And other officials in certain circumstances.

That is being pedantic. Warrants are a different matter and they would have to be seen and checked thoroughly.

PCPhoto

Graces7 wrote: »

No one can enter your home without your permission. They are not the Gestapo.

Gardai can enter your home without your permission - if they have a warrant.

Graces7 wrote: »

The point of making an appointment is to prevent wasted time and to make sure you are not eg out shopping or visiting etc.

Fair enough point, but an on-the-spot call is to ensure you are not working and claiming at the same time.

Graces7 wrote: »

Last time this CWO came withoout an appointment, I said no to a house visit that day because she needed to make that appointment.

you can say no, but if you are at the home at the time of a call then it lets them know you are not out working, if you are not at home and do not respond in a reasonable time (ie. within 24hours) it is possible for them to think you are busy with a job and cannot find the right time to contact them.

Graces7 wrote: »

There was some trouble with a breka in that day and the Gardai were expected.
That was accepted. I talked with her at the gate.

The fact that you talked at the gate means you were not out working so you did not need to invite her into the house, some people are houseproud and are glad of someone to show it off to... some are ashamed of their house and do not want visitors arriving unannounced and would like time to clean it up before "guests" walk in the door, in your case there was a recent burglary so the area was a crime scene and any interference could possibly destroy evidence.

Graces7 wrote: »

There is a limit to being pushed around.

????? This part I don't understand ..... if you are claiming benefits its on condition that you are available to have inspectors call at any time, if you don't want the benefits tell the government you don't want the money and no-one will call unannounced.

No-one is trying to push you around we have a simple system which is abused by a number of people however because some people make it difficult many cases of fraud are not detected..... if you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear.

Personally I think benefits should be reduced if you get criminal convictions, why should the state pay you money if you are not conforming to society and being a law obiding citizen,

(aimed more at the criminal element of society) if you behave like a human you should be treated like a human, if you behave like a scumbag you deserve to be treated like a scumbag.

Del2005

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Not at all.. we are not prisoners! It is unreasonable to make wrong assumptions like that. In my case, I am disabled and semi bedbound so I need and expect proper notice of any visits. But I do have to be out at times. And as I said, there is a limit to how far we allow ourselves to be pushed around.

The Housing dept also were very polite and made a time to come.

When I first applied, for RA, I was given the wrong place and address for the CWO clinic three times; the town is now a long distance and I cannot take pain medication if I am driving. The office kept telling me to wait four hours etc etc etc, so I said no on medical grounds. Else would be ill for days and that is unreasonable of them to expect that. When I told them that they accepted it and we have corresponded by email since then.

Often we get what we deserve from these people.

The forms are very comprehensive and there are many ways to check without these tactics.

This is not the first time an unexpected visit has "failed" because we were out etc and we have always found ways to sort it.

Sorry I worded that wrong. What I meant was that if they had called to the house numerous times with no answer and you then insist on an appointment for them to call out. That's suspicious.

Your case is different in that you've communicated your issues and why you need an appointment, which is only fair and totally acceptable.

maryk123

no one is saying you are a prisoner in your own home but if you make an application for a payment (meaning YOU are looking for assistance from a government official) then they have every right to see what they are assisting with - eg is the house worth the RA amount, is it liveable, who is living there, is the house for sale, it is a business, does the house exist.

sometimes its the way people approach other people i am sure if you explained your situation (as you did in the end) then they would have made an appointment with you.

I agree with PC Photo post - very well answered CPhoto

I dont understand the "there is a limit to being pushed around" either. It is you who are requesting assistance but it is you who wants to lay the ground rules, can you imagine someone dealing with this every day. A bit of give and take is sometimes needed.

Graces7

maryk123 wrote: »

no one is saying you are a prisoner in your own home but if you make an application for a payment (meaning YOU are looking for assistance from a government official) then they have every right to see what they are assisting with - eg is the house worth the RA amount, is it liveable, who is living there, is the house for sale, it is a business, does the house exist.

sometimes its the way people approach other people i am sure if you explained your situation (as you did in the end) then they would have made an appointment with you.

I agree with PC Photo post - very well answered CPhoto

I dont understand the "there is a limit to being pushed around" either. It is you who are requesting assistance but it is you who wants to lay the ground rules, can you imagine someone dealing with this every day. A bit of give and take is sometimes needed.

This is the kind of reply I expected as are some of the others.

You maybe do not know the kind of checks made by Welfare on forms. They are in depth and very comprehensive and around ten people or organisations would have to be lying... Welfare is not studid.

And yes, at my age and in my state of health, there are ground rules to be laid down and thankfully these have been respected when they have been stated. I have no complaints there. But too many see these allowances as some kind of charity. And too many think we should jump when officials say jump. I stopped doing that when I ended up in casualty last September through trying to "give" as you suggest. To comply with their rules.

The rules and provisions are adaptable thankfully. But so many do let themselves be walked over. Because we are all scared and rightly so of losing the payments we are due in the law of the land through a bit of paper; as I did two weeks ago. As I did last winter waiting for the RA to click in in that terrible weather.

Enough and no further is a grand motto.

Graces7

PCPhoto wrote: »

Gardai can enter your home without your permission - if they have a warrant.

Fair enough point, but an on-the-spot call is to ensure you are not working and claiming at the same time.


you can say no, but if you are at the home at the time of a call then it lets them know you are not out working, if you are not at home and do not respond in a reasonable time (ie. within 24hours) it is possible for them to think you are busy with a job and cannot find the right time to contact them.


The fact that you talked at the gate means you were not out working so you did not need to invite her into the house, some people are houseproud and are glad of someone to show it off to... some are ashamed of their house and do not want visitors arriving unannounced and would like time to clean it up before "guests" walk in the door, in your case there was a recent burglary so the area was a crime scene and any interference could possibly destroy evidence.




????? This part I don't understand ..... if you are claiming benefits its on condition that you are available to have inspectors call at any time, if you don't want the benefits tell the government you don't want the money and no-one will call unannounced.

No-one is trying to push you around we have a simple system which is abused by a number of people however because some people make it difficult many cases of fraud are not detected..... if you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear.

Personally I think benefits should be reduced if you get criminal convictions, why should the state pay you money if you are not conforming to society and being a law obiding citizen,

(aimed more at the criminal element of society) if you behave like a human you should be treated like a human, if you behave like a scumbag you deserve to be treated like a scumbag.

See my highlight

That is not true; that is a rumour put about to convenience CWOs and has no basis in law.

And until that one CWO call, which was made because I and they had realised that they had made a bad mistake seven months previously and I had given them a deadline to sort the RA else I would contact central govt and the press, no official has ever called without an appointment.

My record with Social Welfare is very clear; elderly and disabled and with a clean record.

So that is fine,.

OP; you did right and they were simply needing to make contact. Like me and so many, the fear of losing payments is a terrible thing. My credit card took a beating last winter just to keep body and soul together. As I said to the CWO also, the figures for hypothermia deaths among the elderly in Ireland is an international disgrace. And I had and have no intention of adding to that tragic list.
NB she asked at one stage why I had not applied for RA many years previously. When I said that until sterling crashed I did not need it and that I would never apply for what I did not need, her face was a picture.

Thank you for your last para. It is appreciated.

Del2005

Graces7 wrote: »

This is the kind of reply I expected as are some of the others.

You maybe do not know the kind of checks made by Welfare on forms. They are in depth and very comprehensive and around ten people or organisations would have to be lying... Welfare is not studid.

If welfare is not stupid, why is there so much welfare fraud?

People are entitled to assistance if they need and qualify for it. The only way to make sure they qualify is to carry out spot checks. If the fraudulent claims can be reduced then we would all be better off.

mp22

Slightly off topic methinks

Closed