Equality legislation

Shakti

Is it that any Equality/Rights Legislation re:gay marriage, gender recognition/equality, disabilities, imigration et al. by its nature carry within it the absurdity of the current administrations position therefore makeing it hard to pass?

or

Which comes first 'public opinion then legislation' or vice versa?

AndrewJD

Dunno. I've gotta voice my frustration with the argument of gay marriage in particular (although it still applies to a lot of LGBT struggles):

Gay Marriage Pros: Brings everyone into alignment, alleviating the majority of homosexual discrimination in law in one fell swoop and is a terrific sign for social progress.

Gay Marriage Cons: "Marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman". Mmhmm that wasn't an argument. "It's not right." OK but why? "The bible says..." Right-o.

Rev Hellfire

Shakti wrote: »

Which comes first 'public opinion then legislation' or vice versa?

Public opinion, since legislation is in effect the will of the people.

L.Jenkins

I'm suprised that equality across the board hasn't become a human right as mandated by the UN.

Shakti

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

I'm suprised that equality across the board hasn't become a human right as mandated by the UN.

Do then UN resolutions influence public opinion and then in turn influence the legislature at home?
and have we then got a two faced coalition that plays the liberal card abroad but not within its borders?

L.Jenkins

Shakti wrote: »

Do then UN resolutions influence public opinion and then in turn influence the legislature at home?
and have we then got a two faced coalition then that plays the liberal card abroad but not within its borders?

Of course not. Should there be a mandate, then we don't necessarily have to fight our way to the EU to claim human rights abuses, which has occured twice for the LGBT community here in Ireland as far as I can recollect.

Shakti

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Of course not. Should there be a mandate, then we don't necessarily have to fight our way to the EU to claim human rights abuses, which has occured twice for the LGBT community here in Ireland as far as I can recollect.

So if Ireland votes yes for equality in the UN but fails to implement it at home is that not absurdity?. I mean they have already voted yes on our behalf in the UN, thus representing public opinion with no objections coming through that I have noticed from any groups within Ireland, and doesnt that mean that the debate is over and now we write it into law?

And if there have been objections that I havent picked up on who/what were they?

L.Jenkins

Shakti wrote: »

So if Ireland votes yes for equality in the UN but fails to implement it at home is that not absurdity?. I mean they have already voted yes on our behalf in the UN, thus representing public opinion with no objections coming through that I have noticed from any groups within Ireland, and doesnt that mean that the debate is over and now we write it into law?

And if there have been objections that I havent picked up on who/what were they?

It's not just absurd, it's a bit hypocritial in one way. We all believe that Marriage equality should be given and Gender Recognition should be given to transgender people, but we're still waiting.

If we've voted for it, then the Government shouldn't spend as long as though they do acting the maggot and just get it through. How long does one need to talk about the ins and outs of an issue.

Annasopra

Shakti wrote: »

Is it that any Equality/Rights Legislation re:gay marriage, gender recognition/equality, disabilities, imigration et al. by its nature carry within it the absurdity of the current administrations position therefore makeing it hard to pass?

or

Which comes first 'public opinion then legislation' or vice versa?

In some cases the law comes first - Ireland equality laws such as the employment equality act and the equal status act were visionary in many ways. In many other cases Irelands politicians take forever to catch up with the people

Annasopra

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

It's not just absurd, it's a bit hypocritial in one way. We all believe that Marriage equality should be given and Gender Recognition should be given to transgender people, but we're still waiting.

If we've voted for it, then the Government shouldn't spend as long as though they do acting the maggot and just get it through. How long does one need to talk about the ins and outs of an issue.

It's not that simple - marriage equality and transgender recognition are not universally wanted by everyone. There is still a substantial conservative catholic influence amongst Irelands politicians. Also transgender legislation does need to be discussed in depth. There needs to be quite a lot of reflection on legal and health service processes to change gender. lots of other legislation may need to be amended.

Louisevb

Marriage equality is not the be all and end all... Ir's part of the equality and human rights agenda... The right to be treated equally should not be determined by your sexuality, or your acquired gender. The right to be treated equally under law should be a fundamental right of every citizen of this state,

If the declaration of 1916 was alive and well today we would have a true republic, and not the republic of crony-ism, and greed that De Valera and his ilk handed us and of course because they were not English, we voted for them...

The Irish people got what they voted for unfortunately...people with no sense of equality or justice, except where it mattered in their pockets to the detriment of every other citizen of this state. That is why we need to fight for true human rights for all our people

Ambersky

There is still a clause in the current Equality Legislation which exempts religious run institutions such as schools and hospitals from having to implement the law fully if they think it threatens their "ethos".
The Labour party have commited to repealing this section of the act, lets hope it happens soon.
For a link on this issue
http://www.gcn.ie/feature.aspx?sectionid=14&articleid=2550

Louisevb

Article 37 which you refer to under the Employment Equality Act is in the programme for government for removal. That said equality within society has to be started by politicians leading by example... even then public opinion needs to be shaped and equality accepted as a natural human right. Society needs to be lead by our politicians both by example and by stating the need for a good equality and human rights infrastructure.. Something which we are a long way off.

All the legislation in the world won't make people equal if there is no public support.

Ambersky

I hope you are right Louisevb and section 37 does actually get removed.
I know we need public support but if we arent actually protected under law it makes it difficult for people to be out and get that support.

Annasopra

http://humanrights.ie/announcements/call-for-submissions-section-37-employment-equality-act/

The Equality Authority has issued a call for submissions on Section 37 of the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2011. The full call for submissions, as it appears on the Equality Authority website is below:

Proposed amendment to section 37 of the Employment Equality Acts 1998 – 2011

The Equality Authority is inviting submissions from interested parties as part of a consultation process in relation to a proposed amendment to s37 of the Employment Equality Acts 1998 – 2011. Submissions are welcome in electronic format to submissions@equality.ie and should be no more than 2,000 words in length. The deadline is 5.00pm on Friday November 1st 2013.

Background

You may also be aware that The Programme for Government stated: “People of non-faith or minority religious backgrounds and publicly identified LGBT people should not be deterred from training or taking up employment as teachers in the State”.

The s37 provision may also have an impact in institutions that have a religious ethos such as those in the health sector.

The Minister for Justice and Equality has decided to merge the Equality Authority with the Irish Human Rights Commission. His letter of appointment to the members of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission (designate) (the “Commission designate”) sets out that he wanted to address the amendment of s37 of the Employment Equality Acts 1998 – 2011 with the Commission members as a priority matter.

The Commission designate has agreed to review the issue and the Executive of the Equality Authority are leading this project. The Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) has also agreed to assist in this project. For further information please contact Ms. Nuala Cuddy on 0505-24126 or 1890 245 545.

georgesstreet

Louisevb wrote: »

The Irish people got what they voted for unfortunately...people with no sense of equality or justice, except where it mattered in their pockets to the detriment of every other citizen of this state. That is why we need to fight for true human rights for all our people

Unfortunately, as it turned out those against Home Rule were right, for "Home Rule" did, indeed, lead to Rome rule for Ireland for the better part of a century.

Ireland was tuled for 800 years by the british, then when it achieved self determination it handed itself over the the Vatican, and Ireland have never really properly governed itself.

Since Ireland chased away the corrupt priests and nuns and bishops, in the area of Human Rights, Ireland has a much better record than most other countries, and that record gets better and better all the time.

Marriage will come for everyone and not just str8 people.

Annasopra

Georgesstreet You're just soapboxing and trolling now.

Don't post in this thread again

Everyone else - Don't feed the troll. I will delete responses.