It's a tough life for a man...

Eve_Dublin

Thought this article might interest you....definitely some truth to it when I lived in the UK...not sure about Ireland...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jun/23/a-tough-life-for-men

Bottle_of_Smoke

Yeah its a pretty sad situation. Heart breaks for the man who got Paedo shouted at him for telling kids not to misbehave, probably twice as bad for priests.

Morgase

That was a sad read, I feel rotten for that poor old man whose dog died.

I suppose it is as bad here in Ireland. What proportion of primary school teachers are male nowadays? When I went to primary school in the 80s, it was fairly even. We had a great mix of teachers of both genders with all their differing styles of teaching.

The attitude of "man being nice to children = paedo" does nobody any good. It shoves women into the nurturing role, but even worse it paints men who are good with children as unnatural.

Wolfe Tone

Read this in the comments section...

It's not that much better when you have got a dog.

When some kid runs up to ask "can I stroke your dog mister" you'd better make eye contact with their mum fast to reassure them you're not using your puppy as a kidnapping tool.

I'm young and I got weird looks from a mother the other day whose kids ran over to pet my dog. I made the dog sit etc so the kids could pat her, mother comes running out of her house grabs the kids, shoots me an evil look and ushers her kids inside the house.

Too much hyperbole surrounding paedophiles etc.

Eve_Dublin

Funny, there isn't that kind of attitude in Spain. If a child gets on a Metro, everyone plays with the kid, older men on their own included. There isn't that kind of suspicion. Thing is though, I do see older guys checking out very young girls in a very non-subtle way and many of my foreign friends confirmed that (males included) and Spain also has the second highest rate of downloading of child pornography in the world after the USA. Not sure what point I'm making as of course these men are a tiny percentage...but it does make you wary even though it's not fair to label all men like that. I suppose I lived with UK and Irish media for too long. I suppose I never felt it was justified in Ireland...older men never gave me the creeps back in the day...there was always the odd one but generally no. I really think it's out of hand in the UK...the tabloids and their "paedo" witch hunt. Very sad indeed.

Morgase

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I'm young and I got weird looks from a mother the other day whose kids ran over to pet my dog. I made the dog sit etc so the kids could pat her, mother comes running out of her house grabs the kids, shoots me an evil look and ushers her kids inside the house.

I get that a parent only wants what's best for their child, but couldn't that mother have just kept an eye from the house if she was that worried? I think she's sending the wrong message to her kids by reacting the way she did.

And Mr X, another elderly chum of mine, reprimanded some staggeringly rude youngsters on a bus, who responded by shouting "paedophile!" triumphantly. All the other passengers went silent and twitchy, and the children went on freely shoving people about and shrieking filth and nastiness, with no one daring to say a word

The article makes good points but I think this part would happen anyway no matter what they yelled...

FewFew

I was a scout leader for years and this sort of thing is getting much worse. When I was an actual scout, you wouldn't dare say anything like that, but maybe more to the point, you wouldn't think of shouting anything like that.

We regularly took photos on hikes etc., the scout den was decorated in collages and photo boards. Recently enough we were on an activity with another scout troop and I was snapping photos as per usual, and one of the scouts asked me if I was a paedophile. What do you do in that situation? If it was anything else you could just give out to them or just say something witty, but the word has this paralyzing effect on anybody in that type of environment. Stuff like that can ruin lives.

Then there's the never be alone with a child rule, which makes perfect sense and I always enforced it, but there have been emergency situations, usually first aid related, where once you'd know exactly what to do, but now it's nearly more terrifying to be on your own with a kid than to risk further possible injury.

Mad world altogether.

SugarHigh

bluewolf wrote: »

The article makes good points but I think this part would happen anyway no matter what they yelled...

I don't know if that's true. The man obviously wasn't intimated by the kids it was only when they shouted pedophile he got intimated and shut up. If they just shouted other crap I doubt he would have felt intimated otherwise he wouldn't have spoken up in the first place. There really isn't anything else you can that will have the impact of calling a man a pedophile/rapist.

Look at this bint who was trespassing on private property so decides to start shouting rape when she's removed.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html

The accusation of rape is often used as a weapon against men and there isn't a whole you can do to defend yourself. It's even used as political currency by feminist groups, whenever they want to make a point they will start mentioning rape stats no matter how irrelevant simply because of the impact the word has. Just like when they wanted the Hunky Dory ads banned so they claimed they put women at risk of being raped. Complete nonsense but it gives them a lot of power.

Galvasean

SugarHigh wrote: »

Look at this bint who was trespassing on private property so decides to start shouting rape when she's removed.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html

Wow, first I've heard of that. So, protesters trivialize rape , then complain when the Gards do it. Nice.

SugarHigh wrote: »

The accusation of rape is often used as a weapon against men and there isn't a whole you can do to defend yourself. It's even used as political currency by feminist groups, whenever they want to make a point they will start mentioning rape stats no matter how irrelevant simply because of the impact the word has. Just like when they wanted the Hunky Dory ads banned so they claimed they put women at risk of being raped. Complete nonsense but it gives them a lot of power.

I remember those ads. Very effective. Never before had I wanted so badly to rape a bag of crisps and eat a woman.

mikemac

Did a bit of GAA coaching in the past for the local school.
One thing made clear to me was you never ever let yourself be the only adult in the changing rooms.
One wrong comment about a look or touch or even grab a lad to stop messing and your good name can be ruined. Mud sticks.

And while I didn't see it I read over in the photograghy forum about amateur photographers talking photos at games and then getting confronted by parents. Hysteria!

Much the same as taking the lads to the local swimming pool. What man wants to be in the changing room supervising a group.

Galvasean

I actually know a lad who was going to video tape a football match his son was playing in and was asked not to in case the other parents objected to it. That's really messed up.

pragmatic1

Morgase wrote: »

That was a sad read, I feel rotten for that poor old man whose dog died.

I suppose it is as bad here in Ireland. What proportion of primary school teachers are male nowadays? When I went to primary school in the 80s, it was fairly even. We had a great mix of teachers of both genders with all their differing styles of teaching.

The attitude of "man being nice to children = paedo" does nobody any good. It shoves women into the nurturing role, but even worse it paints men who are good with children as unnatural.

Very good point. Think in my national school the majority of teachers were male at one time. Now I'd be surprised if more than one or two were. Its kinda sad for kids, especially boys because they've less male role models now than when I was a kid.

Larianne

I went out with a guy who was a primary school teacher. The rules stated that he couldn't touch the kids at all. If they fell in the playground he wasn't allowed pick them up or give them a hug. He risked his job pulling two boys apart who were fighting in the playground. What was he meant to do? Let them batter each other?

snickerpuss

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Very good point. Think in my national school the majority of teachers were male at one time. Now I'd be surprised if more than one or two were. Its kinda sad for kids, especially boys because they've less male role models now than when I was a kid.

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

Wolfe Tone

snickerpuss wrote: »

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

pragmatic1

snickerpuss wrote: »

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now.

snickerpuss

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

I agree. It's a truly sad state of affairs. I think most people are now far more aware or worried about things involving children. I was filming my mates at a funfair the other week and was very conscious that there were kids in it, though inadvertantly. It sucks that I'm even thinking that way, you know? (And I'm a woman)

Mrmoe

There is definitely an element of truth to this. I don't know where it comes from though but I think the main problem is over sensitivity to sensationalist tabloid headlines. It creates a fear of the way that you are perceived. I happens to me loads of times. If the kids in my estate come up talking to me I am always cautious not to chat for too long and make some excuse and go. Even something as walking on a footpath behind a woman alone, I would often feel compelled to cross the street so as to seem less "rapey". I don't think there is anything anybody else can do to overcome this, it has to be up to the individual to snap out of it and be brave enough to not be tricked in to thinking that you are automatically guilty just because you are a man.

source

Agree fully with the mrmoe, but if we stood up and said no more then this would stop. We take this too easily.

It's disgusting that I have to curtail my interactions with children because I'm a man. Why should I feel guilty for what A FEW men have done to SOME children? A few sick twisted shouldn't be alive men do not represent me, or my sex. This sh1t infuriates me. It really does.

I fear that it will get so bad, that in the future fathers won't be able to go out by themselves with their own kids. A ridiculous comment I know. But one that I really do believe we're heading towards if the kind of gutter rags that vilify men like this keep publishing their crap.

Sky King

I dunno there's stuff women can't do without raising eyebrows. I knew a girl who travelled a lot with work and she said a women couldn't have a drink in the bar on their own without people assuming she was a hooker or trying to get picked up... if you're a guy - no probs.

Logical Fallacy

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

I dunno there's stuff women can't do without raising eyebrows. I knew a girl who travelled a lot with work and she said a women couldn't have a drink in the bar on their own without people assuming she was a hooker or trying to get picked up... if you're a guy - no probs.

Someday it will be possible to have a thread about boards about the issues faced by one of the genders without someone coming in with "yeah...but".

Or not.

Sky King

You're totally right, we should only ever post in a thread if we are 100% in agreement.

Galvasean

snickerpuss wrote: »

I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

When I was in secondary friend of mine (male) wanted to go on to do primary school teaching. People would always call him names like 'peedo' and 'kiddy fiddler', mostly joking mind you, but some people did question it quite seriously behind his back, "He wants to work with kids, WHY would he want to do that?", in an accusatory tone. He abandoned the idea and no works in marketing.
Interestingly, another friend of mine from the same group, year, social circle etc. had the very same intentions and is now a full fledged primary school teacher and was never once subjected to even light name calling or questioning of intentions. The only difference? she's female.
It's like people don't seem to realise that women can abuse kids too.

Dr Galen

You wann try being a nurse lads. Mostly never had a problem but the odd time some eejit thinks it's a bit strange. While I was training I had thought that I might go and specialise in children's nursing too. I was told that it was possible that I might habve to have a chaperone from time to time when dealing with girls. Funnily my mate who is a doctor specialising in children's medicine never had an issue.

Pembily

I am a scout leader and it makes me so so so mad that the two best leaders I know are male yet they can't mind kids without me with them!!! I am not a parent yet both these men have children but they are automatically not trustworthy even though they have been "garda vetted" (pointless IMO). It's an absolute disgrace, I don't even bring cameras on camp anymore in case I am questioned!

Fewcifur wrote: »

We regularly took photos on hikes etc., the scout den was decorated in collages and photo boards. Recently enough we were on an activity with another scout troop and I was snapping photos as per usual, and one of the scouts asked me if I was a paedophile. What do you do in that situation? If it was anything else you could just give out to them or just say something witty, but the word has this paralyzing effect on anybody in that type of environment. Stuff like that can ruin lives.

I had a child say to me he would sue me for child abuse as I was making him put up a tent and he didn't want to... My response was making him work wasn't child abuse and he could sue all he wanted but I am broke! It is sick what these kids come out with but I just stand up to them and I know that people will have my back cause the kids who say that stuff already have a reputation!

Fewcifur wrote: »

Then there's the never be alone with a child rule, which makes perfect sense and I always enforced it, but there have been emergency situations, usually first aid related, where once you'd know exactly what to do, but now it's nearly more terrifying to be on your own with a kid than to risk further possible injury.

Mad world altogether.

Personally and sadly but I don't ever risk being alone. You can't!

Larianne wrote: »

I went out with a guy who was a primary school teacher. The rules stated that he couldn't touch the kids at all. If they fell in the playground he wasn't allowed pick them up or give them a hug. He risked his job pulling two boys apart who were fighting in the playground. What was he meant to do? Let them batter each other?

Yes, you let them batter each other! In the UK you can't put suncream on kids unless they are sunburnt cause then it's first aid :mad: :mad:

Yes women have it way easier but we still have to watch our backs but I agree with ye guys and it makes my blood boil!

hollypink

Galvasean wrote: »

When I was in secondary friend of mine (male) wanted to go on to do primary school teaching. People would always call him names like 'peedo' and 'kiddy fiddler', mostly joking mind you, but some people did question it quite seriously behind his back, "He wants to work with kids, WHY would he want to do that?", in an accusatory tone. He abandoned the idea and no works in marketing.
Interestingly, another friend of mine from the same group, year, social circle etc. had the very same intentions and is now a full fledged primary school teacher and was never once subjected to even light name calling or questioning of intentions. The only difference? she's female.
It's like people don't seem to realise that women can abuse kids too.

Interesting (and depressing) - is it that people now tend to view any man who wants to work/interact with children as suspicious/unnatural as though this isn't considered a male trait and therefore any male exhibiting it must have an ulterior motive i.e. paedophilia?

Galvasean

hollypink wrote: »

Interesting (and depressing) - is it that people now tend to view any man who wants to work/interact with children as suspicious/unnatural as though this isn't considered a male trait and therefore any male exhibiting it must have an ulterior motive i.e. paedophilia?

It seems to be the case. With my female friend, she is a great teacher and excellent with children. In school everyone was supportive of her career decision. The automatic assumption was (correctly) that she is such a kind/caring person and would be very well suited to the job. In the case of my male friend who shared all of the same virtues the automatic assumption was that he must be some kind of weirdy deviant who just wants access to kids for nefarious reasons.
I don't think I've ever come across a budding female primary school teacher who has been treated in such a manner. It's like people think women (and women exclusively) are all compassionate and caring motherly types when we know this is not always the case. I don't know exact stats/statistics of teachers engaging in unlawful sexual contact with students, but if you google 'teacher arrested sex student' the majority appear to be of female teachers on boys. So why is it that men seem to be under the most scrutiny?

Logical Fallacy

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

You're totally right, we should only ever post in a thread if we are 100% in agreement.

Where did i say everyone should agree? It's a simple fact that the thread is about the weird view some people can have of males, it's being discussed in a forum designed to broach males issues....as such...the thread is male centric.

When people do the "yeah....but" thing in threads about a gender it always reduces the thread to a literal he said/she said scenario and just kills it dead.

With regards to the actual topic, i've been walking past a group of teenage girls at night time who think it hilarious to scream "rape!" and then have a laugh as if it's some kind of hilarious joke.

A good friend of mine had his life completely destroyed by someone who decided to put around rumours that he was taking sexual advantage of his students. Despite the fact that any investigation led back to the fact that the person was lying, and all his students came out and defended him as being a great teacher it was too late...he'll never work with students again and has been on the receiving end of acts of violence from people in the community he lived in...so much so that he had to move.

I'm aware that rape, child abuse etc is a very serious problem but this insane willingness from some quarters to instantly assume that the stranger on the street is a rapist or a pedo is ****ing nuts.

sollar

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers.

For who? I had two male teachers at primary school and both of them were excellent. The best teacher i had was male.

Dr Galen

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now.

what would lead you to think that women make better teachers?

donfers

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Where did i say everyone should agree? It's a simple fact that the thread is about the weird view some people can have of males, it's being discussed in a forum designed to broach males issues....as such...the thread is male centric.

When people do the "yeah....but" thing in threads about a gender it always reduces the thread to a literal he said/she said scenario and just kills it dead.

With regards to the actual topic, i've been walking past a group of teenage girls at night time who think it hilarious to scream "rape!" and then have a laugh as if it's some kind of hilarious joke.

A good friend of mine had his life completely destroyed by someone who decided to put around rumours that he was taking sexual advantage of his students. Despite the fact that any investigation led back to the fact that the person was lying, and all his students came out and defended him as being a great teacher it was too late...he'll never work with students again and has been on the receiving end of acts of violence from people in the community he lived in...so much so that he had to move.

I'm aware that rape, child abuse etc is a very serious problem but this insane willingness from some quarters to instantly assume that the stranger on the street is a rapist or a pedo is ****ing nuts.

unfortunately we are living in an era, of what some writers have dubbed "liberal fascism", for the most part the results of this kind of thinking have been positive in terms of striving to do away with social injustices and campaigning for equality - but some unscrupulous folks can take advantage of the fact that they come from what is perceived to be the "oppressed" group and play their victim cards too readily, they know the kneejerk response will be pitchforks at the ready and the mob baying for blood as the liberal fascists jump to the defense of the "victim" more so because of who they are rather than the taking the time to judge the individual case on its own merits.

We are told the male (particularly white) has traditionally had the most privileged place in Society and has been the benefactor of patriarchy, what the "equality" campaigners often fail to mention (apart from the fact that small superclass controls everything and oppresses all of us, but yes most of that tiny group happen to be white men) is that in terms of perception, having to accept responsibility for your mistakes and moreover being perceived as the troublemaker/bad guy/threat/danger/malevolent influence without even having taken any kind of action, well in that fcuked-up world we certainly are king.

Everyone is now so fearful of being smeared by association with even the slightest implication of racism, sexism, paedophilia that often in those most sensitive cases the liberal fascists ensure you are guilty until proven innocent. The controlling forces now react NOT so much to who is guilty or innocent, not to how much or how little evidence there is for a particular case but more to the wailing shrieking hysteria of the liberal fascist bandwagon that relentlessly crushes all real debate knowing full well anybody that questions its right to do must be a racist, sexist or paedophile (or at least that's what they'll say if you dare confront them) rather than a person who is simply seeking those crazy far-fetched old-fashioned concepts like truth and justice.

pragmatic1

sollar wrote: »

For who? I had two male teachers at primary school and both of them were excellent. The best teacher i had was male.

I had excellent male teachers in primary and secondary school too. Like you the best teacher I ever had was male. He was actually a major factor in me choosing the career I'm in now. But on average women tent to be better at communication and have more patience.

pragmatic1

Dr Galen wrote: »

what would lead you to think that women make better teachers?

On average, better communicators, more patience, more aware of childrens emotional needs, and more conscientious.

Bottle_of_Smoke

pragmatic1 wrote: »

On average, better communicators, more patience, more aware of childrens emotional needs, and more conscientious.

That's why schools hold interviews with teachers they intend to hire. They establish if the person is conscientious etc

Anyway the most important aspect of being a teacher is ability to control a class. On average men would be better at that but it would be stupid to say men make better teachers over that.

Better communicators in general? yes but that includes being better at idle chatter. are they better at communicating with children they are teaching? doubtful imho.

More patient? not convinced about that at all

More aware of children's emotional needs? nonsense. a female teacher has no clue what its like to be a boy or a male teenager. Vice versa for men and girls.

I can't think of any occupations where I'd see relevance to saying Men/Women make better ....

Maybe in a communist state but when there's competition for employment it is silly to not look at a person on their individual characteristics

pragmatic1

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That's why schools hold interviews with teachers they intend to hire. They establish if the person is conscientious etc

Anyway the most important aspect of being a teacher is ability to control a class. On average men would be better at that but it would be stupid to say men make better teachers over that.

Better communicators in general? yes but that includes being better at idle chatter. are they better at communicating with children they are teaching? doubtful imho.

More patient? not convinced about that at all

More aware of children's emotional needs? nonsense. a female teacher has no clue what its like to be a boy or a male teenager. Vice versa for men and girls.

I can't think of any occupations where I'd see relevance to saying Men/Women make better ....

Maybe in a communist state but when there's competition for employment it is silly to not look at a person on their individual characteristics

Women tend to be better at communication. Thats a fairly well established female trait. They also score higher on average for EQ and empathy. Empathy allows someone to place themselves in anothers shoes, so yeah I'd say they would be more intune with the emotional needs of their pupils. From my own personal experience I've found women to have more patience than men.

"Maybe in a communist state but when there's competition for employment it is silly to not look at a person on their individual characteristics". Note the phrase "on average". It makes a big difference. I never said all women have these characteristics or all men lack these characteristics.

johnr1

Iagree with most posts.

In my own experience, being a former dance teacher, I almost never taught children for this very reason. I was often asked to, and it would have been more lucrative, if more demanding, but as a guy, I didn't want to leave myself open to possible false accusations from children who didn't want to be there.
I still have friends in the dance world, and the a lot of the guys who teach are gay, not that that should make any difference to the risk of paedophillia, but they seem to be more accepted by parents possibly because the vast majority of students are girls.
It just contributes to the recent view of Irish and Set dancing as not being suitable activities for straight males.
This is just one pastime, not too serious in the big scheme of things but if as we are seeing, that this attitude spreads to include the whole teaching of preteens then as a society it leaves us poorer.

Bottle_of_Smoke

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Women tend to be better at communication. Thats a fairly well established female trait. They also score higher on average for EQ and empathy. Empathy allows someone to place themselves in anothers shoes, so yeah I'd say they would be more intune with the emotional needs of their pupils. From my own personal experience I've found women to have more patience than men.

I acknowledged that in general but I'd have to see evidence to be convinced they are better at communication with children in an educational context

"Maybe in a communist state but when there's competition for employment it is silly to not look at a person on their individual characteristics". Note the phrase "on average". It makes a big difference. I never said all women have these characteristics or all men lack these characteristics.

You didn't say on average until questioned on it. You said "I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now."

If its just on average what is the point even mentioning it?

tayto lover

pragmatic1 wrote: »

On average, better communicators, more patience, more aware of childrens emotional needs, and more conscientious.

You forgot - more time missed through sickness and pregnancy.

Bottle_of_Smoke

tayto lover wrote: »

You forgot - more time missed through sickness and pregnancy.

Interesting point. Whilst women have every right to time off for a pregnancy - it no doubt disrupt's their pupils learning.

tayto lover

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Interesting point. Whilst women have every right to time off for a pregnancy - it no doubt disrupt's their pupils learning.

I knew a female teacher once who had 4 children in quick succession. She only taught for about 3 months in 4 years. A lot of disruption to her class as they had different teachers on a regular basis.
It was that teachers right though but very disruptive to her classes.

pragmatic1

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

You didn't say on average until questioned on it. You said "I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now."

If its just on average what is the point even mentioning it?

Yes but I made a subsequent post which contained the phrase "on average". That was the post that you responded to. So I dont quite get your issue.

Dr Galen

So of I reply that I think men would make better teachers and can back that up with a few thoughts of my own, that would be on too then?

I am a friend

hollypink wrote: »

Interesting (and depressing) - is it that people now tend to view any man who wants to work/interact with children as suspicious/unnatural as though this isn't considered a male trait and therefore any male exhibiting it must have an ulterior motive i.e. paedophilia?

Parents hold these views and yet the bulk of parents are happy to let their kids sit on facebook/ the internet for hours (not knowing what they are looking at) and have letting them have mobile phones far too young....

The media plays its part for scaremongering but in truth the blame for the over-reaction firmly lies at the parents door. Friends of mine are secondary school teachers, in a 'nice school' and you literally cant say boo to little Johnny any more or the parents are in shouting the odds. When I was a kid, if a note was sent home from school to say you were bold, we would be killed and my parents would not be landing on the school door or even worse calling to the teacher at their home :eek:

IMHO, parents assume because they can see the kids i.e. on the PC in the sitting room , that they are safe but in truth, they are a lot safer at school or at guides / scouts that they are on the www.

Galvasean

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Interesting point. Whilst women have every right to time off for a pregnancy - it no doubt disrupt's their pupils learning.

Deffo. I've lost count of how many teachers of mine took time off due to pregnancy. It definitely disrupts. Even when the school quickly replaces them with a good substitute (which is not always the case) there is disruption in terms of class continuity as every teacher has their own ways of going about things which can take time for the pupils to adjust to.
Then of course there's the class muppets who keep insisting, "No, we never did that chapter before" just to act the maggit.

Soul Stretcher

IMO it all comes down to conditioning....

1. Our society has traditionally conditioned men to be separated from their family for most of the working day and to have their emotions under wraps so that they become the perfect cog in the industrial machine.. in factories and down mines etc. Feelings don't do anything in relation to packing more boxes or hauling more coal. Also, in times of war, they can be plucked off the production line and placed in the trenches... all you need to send them over the top into oncoming fire is an The Apprentice-type bull**** sales story of Your Country Needs You.. you don't have to worry about tearing them away from their families... that's already been done.

2. Cynicism in relation to Politics and Religion have removed a lot of bonds that hold men together. Especially the fall in Christian faith - just look at the Muslim practice and see hundreds of men literally kneeling shoulder-to-shoulder to pray. Now it's every man for himself.. the competitive lone-wolf. The expectation is that every man should be self-sufficient and ambitious - if not, then he is a failure/inadequate somehow. Even if he is successful and "wins" in business or sport etc.. after the initial burst of happiness with wealth/fame, they often become isolated and insecure.. because now they've definitely broken ranks with Joe Soap and can easily become targets of begrudgery and suspicion as the Boss Man. The GAA in Ireland, thank God/Allah whoever, is bucking the trend as social institutions go and keeping many communities together.

3. Any male who does manage to be successful is quickly tempted away from his roots and community by the status symbols of big house etc.. so he often doesn't remain where he grew up to act as a Mentor to kids etc.. he's too busy making money in his grown-up world.

Women and Men themselves are struggling to first of all realize how conditioned we all are in our ideas of ourselves as Men/Women, Irish/Non-Irish, Worker/Unemployed. We have no idea of what it means to be human - just human - without all the conditioned baggage we've absorbed since childhood. Secondly, even if you are aware "hey I don't need to play this game anymore.. I want to live life day and day as a human being with strong relationships with those around me"...how exactly do you start out on that path ? Where are the Role Models in Ireland today who successfully become Whole people as in financially sustainable, in close relationships with family and community etc.. Maybe we just don't hear about those guys.. but by God we need to..

That's the only way we can weaken the sense of distrust and suspicion of towards the lone male. The former hero as soldier or miner still covered in the dirt and muck of a repressed emotional life.

iptba

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

With regards to the actual topic, i've been walking past a group of teenage girls at night time who think it hilarious to scream "rape!" and then have a laugh as if it's some kind of hilarious joke.

A good friend of mine had his life completely destroyed by someone who decided to put around rumours that he was taking sexual advantage of his students. Despite the fact that any investigation led back to the fact that the person was lying, and all his students came out and defended him as being a great teacher it was too late...he'll never work with students again and has been on the receiving end of acts of violence from people in the community he lived in...so much so that he had to move.

I'm aware that rape, child abuse etc is a very serious problem but this insane willingness from some quarters to instantly assume that the stranger on the street is a rapist or a pedo is ****ing nuts.

This (mainly the second paragraph) reminds me of the case (I think it was in the UK) where some sort of lynch mob attacked a man because they found out he was a ... paediatrician (and somehow thought that meant paedophile/similar).

People in lynch mobs - and there can also be "lynch mobs" be more in the arena of words, as has been mentioned in this thread - can cause a form of harm to individuals and indeed to an extent to the wider society. But unless one is actually physically violent, they [those in the lynch mobs] usually suffer no consequences (not exactly sure what the consequences should be, just making the point). Maybe part of it is to do with idle gossip - sometimes people can be too willing to indulge in it and also some people can be too willing to believe things without evidence.

A related point to all this is how so many people are so scared to let their children to play outside, when if one was to look coldly at the statistics, the long-term effects of many children subsequently going on to being overweight and perhaps ending up with a life of obesity (which isn't good for your health and not so good for your self-image/dating prospects either, particularly when young) are probably on average worse than the very odd chance that something might happen to a child. As I understand it, things like abductions are quite rare (even within the contest of child abuse).

um7y1h83ge06nx

Good thread.

I'm reading this as a 28 year old male with no kids and see guys here talking about being scout leaders and working with kids in the GAA. My first thought? Why would you put yourself in a risky situation (i.e. working closely with kids where allegations could be made). Now that's sad that that's what I thought.

I wonder too how much of this paranoia is screwing up preparing a man to be a good father. I mean I have almost zero interaction with kids and tend to avoid interacting with kids for the very reasons this thread was started. I have no nephews or nieces and most of my cousins are teenagers or adults. Kids are almost a foreign object to me. There are some nice, decent kids in my estate but whenever they may engage me in conversation I try to keep it short in case people get "the wrong idea".

Women my age would tend to have had a lot more interaction with kids, with most having had the role of being a babysitter at some stage or another. Such is life I guess.

Delirium

I remember listening to a guy on RTE radio a few years back. He was constantly second guessing himself with regards to his infant daughter due to a perception that men shouldn't be left alone with a child.

He was crying while talking about being worried that he was doing something wrong to his daughter, he was talking about changing her diaper.

He had an overwhelming fear of hurting his daughter, all because of people saying that a man involved with children is creepy/unnatural.

It's a terrible state of affairs that his confidence to be a good father was non-existent, all because of the evil deeds of some of his gender.

folan

Orion Creamy Gin wrote: »

I'm reading this as a 28 year old male with no kids and see guys here talking about being scout leaders and working with kids in the GAA. My first thought? Why would you put yourself in a risky situation (i.e. working closely with kids where allegations could be made). Now that's sad that that's what I thought.

similar to myself, which is bad.

it seems were almost conditioned to think like this!

However, society has changed. details of those who hurt and were hurt were hidden from the public eye for too long and now its hard to know who to trust. those who were most trusted in irish society for decades have been shown not to be as trustworthy as originally thought, and that seems to have spilt over into a mentality where noone can be trusted with those we love.

there is no answer to this, imo, and even though its not something that we SHOULD have to grin and bear, it IS something that we will have to.

mikemac

Our local national school is around about 30 years old and has about 140 students.

The principal and one of the Board of Management didn't get on at all, it happens, personality clash perhaps.
Now this man on the committee was a bit of a mother hen type. You know involved with the school, the tidy towns, the local church, different sports, even the local secondary school.

His daughter sent around a story that the principal was standing in the doorway of the changing rooms while the girls were getting changed.

Now the principal wasn't the most popular man to begin with but a lot of comments and anger was whipped up. He wasn't suspended but there was an investigation

And in the end it turned out the child in an "eager to please" mood said what she thought her father wanted to hear.

It was a pack of lies and man nearly lost his career over it. And mud sticks
Can happen with feuds