Micky Noonan tells us to all go shopping

Slideshowbob

Well just over 100 days in office and Mick Noonan has worked it out

We all need to go shopping

Dear Lord

Owen

The Australian Government said a similar thing two years ago, and gave every Citizen money to go do it. The idea was to get people back in the frame of mind of what it felt like to buy something nice for yourself, and get back shopping regularly.

bryaner

Distant memories..

Mr Trade In

Sounds like Nixons $300 bill in Futurama,wonder what crooked Basterd will be on our one,if we do get one.

baldbear

I'm going to do my bit and buy a few pair of underpants tomorrow.:D

Nijmegen

Go out and spend some money. Or give us some money to spend. Like that trillion dollar stimulus in the US, followed by two massive rounds of quantitative easing (printing money, to you and me.)

Are We Months Away From (Another) Recession?

Oh.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Slideshowbob

Him or an advisor must have heard these lads supporting Take That in Croker and got a brainwave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgWu37xXFkg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Needs to be explained that it's not what was meant by the Croke Park agreement

Einhard

It's not a bad idea at all. I was reading somewhere that Irish savings rates are way up, the highest they've been for years, but people are too nervous to spend their money. If some people decided to spend some of their money, it would have a positive impact. Not sure exactly what the OP's complaint is in this regard/

Slideshowbob

Einhard wrote: »

It's not a bad idea at all. I was reading somewhere that Irish savings rates are way up, the highest they've been for years, but people are too nervous to spend their money. If some people decided to spend some of their money, it would have a positive impact. Not sure exactly what the OP's complaint is in this regard/

My comment really relates to the fact that i feel that our problems wont be solved by going out and buying imported cars, jeans, shampoo or conditioner.

It's a rather simplistic plea for a senior minister to make for a government that already seems bereft of ideas. Granted they were left a pile of sh1t by FF.

Shopping may have worked 5 or 10 years ago when there was a construction boom seen to be material wealth creation but many of our disretionary spending goes on luxury imported goods I'd say, which in turn makes us a more materialistic society.

JustinDee

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Well just over 100 days in office and Mick Noonan has worked it out

We all need to go shopping

Dear Lord

Nothing wrong with what he says, provided Paddy spends his own money for a change.

Context...

chelseavera

Dont think what I've got to spend will rescue the economy!

Cookie_Monster

I took him up on that and bought myself a few books yesterday.

Though I did buy them on Amazon, probably not what he had in mind...

Atilathehun

I'm off to Aldi for a pack of Spaten, for the week end.
That's my patriotic duty done;)

Oh, by the way Micky Noonan, shouldn't you show a bit of leadership here, and bring back the lolly you have stashed away in German bunds, and spend the lot of it, in Limerick:cool::cool:

Or just plonk it in AIB to shore up the ship

daheff

on a very simplistic level, what noonan is saying is right...but i remember FF saying the same a couple of years ago!


basically if we all spend an extra tenner a week, then the government gets extra vat (about €1.5 per person per week...which works out at about 300m a year)....but on top of this, businesses earn more profit and the extra business may mean some need to take on more staff.

More business profit = more Corp tax take for gov
more staff = less social welfare AND more income tax

more people earning more money = more money spent in economy = a multiplier of increase of VAT, Income tax ,Corp Tax, less social welfare (not 100% sure of the multiplier...but its well recognised economic fact)

krissovo

Those of us who are fortunate enough to be in jobs are saving like crazy, simple fact is we dont know how long we will have them and we have been hit so hard with taxes and levies with more on the way.

The media is also fueling the doom and gloom and creating nervous citizens.

bluefinger

this is exactly the same kind of advice that was given to tens of thousands of people who are now in negative equity, struggling to pay off car loans and massive credit card bills?

not satisfied with loading us all up with massive debt to prop up the banks, they reckon the public should voluntarily choose to spend more money themselves and when inevitably people end up in difficulty they will be told tough luck, they lived beyond their means. :rolleyes:

Next weeks edict from the department of finance will be along the lines of minister noonan says those who don't want to buy an ipad2 or a 3d television should just commit suicide.

fliball123

How the hell can he say this...What a goon..The fact that we are over borrowing by 18 billion to keep the lights on and this isis an indicator of how people are in this country.

The vast majority of people are on less money than they were 5 years ago. Prices for most things in general have gone up. We are paying more taxes. Nearly 1/2 a million on the dole which will be cut. nearly a million in a house that is in neg equity and a fair % of these struggling to pay these bills...

I think the fact is that while they continue to tax us and whilst people remain in the position of having to pay off mortgages with interests rates spiralling aswell as seeing the gov not having the guts to cut the fat out of the PS spend and not cutting out fraud in welfare..People will remain tight fisted and who can blame them..No one knows how long they will have their job for..Unless your in the ps and your alright till 2014...

Noonan should shut up and show some leadership ....

Manach

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Though I did buy them on Amazon, probably not what he had in mind...

Well as Amazon have two main offices in Ireland, you've done your patriotic duty.

Finnbar01

Einhard wrote: »

It's not a bad idea at all. I was reading somewhere that Irish savings rates are way up, the highest they've been for years, but people are too nervous to spend their money. If some people decided to spend some of their money, it would have a positive impact. Not sure exactly what the OP's complaint is in this regard/

No thanks, I'm not spending my precious savings on imports.

oggy8

Pure genius! FF+Greens fiscal policy was the construction and property sector. Now....FG+Lab are throwing all their eggs into the retail and services sector:rolleyes:.

Now now....Mickey Noonan has told us to all go spending....where's me plastic:D.

Dannyboy83

Einhard wrote: »

It's not a bad idea at all. I was reading somewhere that Irish savings rates are way up, the highest they've been for years, but people are too nervous to spend their money. If some people decided to spend some of their money, it would have a positive impact. Not sure exactly what the OP's complaint is in this regard/

What would you say if I told you I had found a cure for famine in Africa, just tell the Africans to go out and eat more?

Obviously if people are trying to
A) pay down debt asap
suffering from tax increases
C) worrying about new tax increases,

they are going to
i) have very little disposable income to spend and
ii) preserve what they do have to pay for new taxes and/or build up an emergency fund against unemployment or to emigrate etc.
Little is going to spent on anything other than necessities.

For Noonan to come out with a statement like he did is the sheer pinnacle of stupidity. I would have expected it from FF, not from him.

This is an extremely basic concept and I find it concerning that he doesn't seem to understand the effect of increasing taxation

How many people chimed in on the Property tax/Water tax threads saying they didn't know where the money was supposed to come from?

Pearse Doherty's recent proposal for TDs to take a 33% cut in income would still keep them twice as well paid as the average industrial wage, before expenses are considered.
I guess it must be hard for him to understand, when you don't have a few grand of 'spare money' going into the bank every month after tax, that lack of desire to spend is not the critical issue, lack of disposable income is!


Message to Michael Nooan:
Give the people something to spend, and I guarantee you, they will spend it.
Don't go around telling people who have very little and are about to have less, through your betrayal of your manifesto, to simply start spending more, because they will hate you for it, you utter imbecile.

Cannibal Ox

He's right. Like it or not, the system is based on the premise that people consume. If they aren't, businesses aren't making money and government isn't collecting taxes. But he's also caught in a double bind, because they need higher taxes to service the debt, which gobbles up people's consuming power.

So, he can't tax his way out of it, but he can't really get you to consume your way out of it either. Bit of a problem that.

Nijmegen

People won't consume because they don't have confidence that things won't get worse.

And when you individualise it and look to a family trying to ensure that they can raise their kids properly... Wouldn't you be saving?

To say it's our patriotic duty to spend is not quite how the free capitalist market works. It's our right to spend, when we like, how we like, and when we're sure the government won't be taxing us to hell to pay for its over bloated self.

Dannyboy83

Michael Noonan's Personal Diary 22nd June 2011
==
Problem:
(i)Property market and construction sector have collapsed

Lenders rejecting 80% of mortgage applications
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhojsnidau/rss2/

Solution
(i)Quite simple really, just tell people to start getting mortgages again!


WHO WOULDA THUNK IT?

=========================================================

Michael Noonan's Personal Diary 23rd June 2011
==
Problem:
(i)SMEs are dying out like they've got bubonic plague

Credit refused to 54% of SMEs
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhojsnidau/rss2/

Solution
(i)Obvious, just tell them to use credit to get them through!

WHO WOULDA THUNK IT?

=========================================================

careca11

daheff wrote: »

on a very simplistic level, what noonan is saying is right...but i remember FF saying the same a couple of years ago!


basically if we all spend an extra tenner a week, then the government gets extra vat (about €1.5 per person per week...which works out at about 300m a year)....but on top of this, businesses earn more profit and the extra business may mean some need to take on more staff.

More business profit = more Corp tax take for gov
more staff = less social welfare AND more income tax

more people earning more money = more money spent in economy = a multiplier of increase of VAT, Income tax ,Corp Tax, less social welfare (not 100% sure of the multiplier...but its well recognised economic fact)

how the feck can we spend more when we are facing further increase's on Health,home insurance , mortgage rates , gas, electricity , petrol , diesel ,public transport , household charges(BUT I WILL NOT BE PAYING THIS) , water rates , food prices seem to be getting more expensive by the day , further pay cuts, more levies, increases in current levies etc etc etc etc ,
what have most of us left to spend ...................next to fechin nothing , we have about €60 left a week after all bills are paid at the mo , this is likely to eroded by all of the above , this money is currently saved for both my son's future and as a backup in the case that either myself or my wife or both lose our jobs (that possibility is hanging over us),

Noonan needs to grow some balls and tackle government spending especially the €21bn a year in the PS ie........rip up the croke park cope-out agreement, €21bn on social welfare (most of which is actually spent on the wrong areas of social welfare)

JustinDee

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Message to Michael Nooan:
Give the people something to spend, and I guarantee you, they will spend it.
Don't go around telling people who have very little and are about to have less, through your betrayal of your manifesto, to simply start spending more, because they will hate you for it, you utter imbecile.

Y'see, this is typical of the 'outraged' out there.
Did you read the full quote of what he has apparently said?
Q. Who is being asked to spend?
A. Those "who have it".

Believe it or not, some still "have it".

Dannyboy83

JustinDee wrote: »

Y'see, this is typical of the 'outraged' out there.
Did you read the full quote of what he has apparently said?
Q. Who is being asked to spend?
A. Those "who have it".

Believe it or not, some still "have it".

First, I'm not outraged. I'm amazed at the stupidity.
As I said here yesterday, I find it hilarious, it doesn't anger me anymore:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72933512

Second - do reread my post properly.
I already covered why people have these savings.

It's called a buffer.

inline

how can we spend what we havent got?

I agree to a certain extent with Minister Noonan telling us to go out and spend, but when I hear of all the extra charges that are coming down the track, for houses/water/ septic tank etc..I get v nervous and think I should hang onto the bit of cash that I have..

Higgzy

What Noonan is saying is ridiculous. Say if I'm earning 30K a year, I'm barely making enough to make ends meet and I spend it all. Is he suggesting that I should borrow (for example) another 20k - money I don't have - to spend 50k a year? And if he thinks that's such I good idea, why doesn't he lead by example and run the government finances like that.

Oh.

JustinDee

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

First, I'm not outraged. I'm amazed at the stupidity.
As I said here yesterday, I find it hilarious, it doesn't anger me anymore:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72933512

Second - do reread my post properly.
I already covered why people have these savings.

It's called a buffer.

Those who can afford it should spend their money here.
That is what he's saying.

He's not telling anyone to borrow or spend beyond their means (something Paddy Ireland couldn't resist doing for more than the past decade). He's appealing that people that have money to spend, spend it here.

InigoMontoya

A lot of exaggerated reaction based on simplistic black-and-white attitudes (and reporting, in fairness). "But sure I have no money!" Well don't spend it then, no one is asking you to.

Is the concept that a minister might say something that applies to some people and not to others too difficult?

"The focus was on the tourist industry and of course what we really need is for people to go into the shops and start buying again. If that starts, with tourists visiting our shores stimulating the retail side, and is followed by our own ordinary citizens going about their shopping and beginning to spend again, then we begin to lift out of the crisis."

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/noonan-calls-on-shoppers-to-save-economy-158880.html#ixzz1QC3Z1jeE

judas101

inline wrote: »

how can we spend what we havent got?

Never stopped us before!

Hoffmans

yes judas the steady supply of eurocrat credit was well squandered when it was available by the crippled irish banks

redux

Dear old Noonan, the epitome of this helpless and hopeless government!

JustinDee

InigoMontoya wrote: »

Is the concept that a minister might say something that applies to some people and not to others too difficult?

Yes, the begrudging, ever-the-victim, self-righteous must have their moan regardless...

RichardAnd

If Noonan wants people to spend he has to give them some sort of solid belief in their ability to do so. In other words, we need confidence.

One way to get people spending would be to slash the tax on fuel. If petrol was say, a euro a litre then it would encourage people to travel a bit more, maybe head out a sea-side town for a day and have lunch or whatever. This would, in turn, generate more VAT which is money in the coffers but it has the added effect of keeping people in jobs and creating new ones. This is why heavy tax is like cyanide to a economy and the best way out of recession is to keep as much money as possible in the hands of citizens.

careca11

judas101 wrote: »

Never stopped us before!

i know , and thanks to past policies , they still managed to fcuk up the economy

Tora Bora

Noonan has just graduated from the Charlie McGreedy school of economics:rolleyes:
"When I have it I spend it":D:D

Einhard

Ah God, people are going way over the top with this. The savings rate has risen dramatically in this country over the past few years. Fact is, quite a few people have quite a bit of money stashed away, and he's just stating the obvious when he notes that spending some of this will boost the economy.

He's not urging everyone to fuel another property boom, or start snapping up apartments in Bulgaria again. And he's not claiming that spending a little extra will resolve all our problems.

I really don't understand what the problem is.

Einhard

Higgzy wrote: »

What Noonan is saying is ridiculous. Say if I'm earning 30K a year, I'm barely making enough to make ends meet and I spend it all. Is he suggesting that I should borrow (for example) another 20k - money I don't have - to spend 50k a year? And if he thinks that's such I good idea, why doesn't he lead by example and run the government finances like that.

Oh.

Nooooooooooo!! He's not saying that at all!! Jesus Christ, nothing even approximating that! Are people just in the mood to be outraged today??

Cookie_Monster

Einhard wrote: »

Nooooooooooo!! He's not saying that at all!! Jesus Christ, nothing even approximating that! Are people just in the mood to be outraged today??

is your sarcasm meter broken?
better go out and buy a new one (Irish made of course)

Zonda999

On a bigger scale, take the German economy in the early 2000's, they had very weak growth rates indeed, purely because people were not "spending" and saving that money instead, presumably. Where did the German Banks do with that saved money end up again? Oh wait..

Just a thought.

Surely though, the most simple idea in this situation is to save money when times are good, just in case you need in when times are bad. This is the natural thing to do. Unfortunately, many Irish people are doing this (which is why our GNP is still taking heavy hits). This is where the core issue lies, people need the confidence to spend some of that saved money. I'll admit that if Irish people have learned generally about the importance of saving some of their income, its a very good thing going forward(makes us more "German", if you would allow). It will at least mean that the borrowing frenzy that was the early to mid 2000's will not happen again in the next while, not that it will be allowed to happen, hopefully. Hopefully people are realising that borrowing money is something that should be avoided unless you absolutely have to.

Noreen1

daheff wrote: »

on a very simplistic level, what noonan is saying is right...but i remember FF saying the same a couple of years ago!


basically if we all spend an extra tenner a week, then the government gets extra vat (about €1.5 per person per week...which works out at about 300m a year)....but on top of this, businesses earn more profit and the extra business may mean some need to take on more staff.

More business profit = more Corp tax take for gov
more staff = less social welfare AND more income tax

more people earning more money = more money spent in economy = a multiplier of increase of VAT, Income tax ,Corp Tax, less social welfare (not 100% sure of the multiplier...but its well recognised economic fact)

All true.

So what does Mr Noonan think the effect is of removing multiples of a "tenner", through various taxes/cuts/charges from peoples disposable income is?

later12

If I were the Minister for Finance I would look most seriously at the possibility of decreasing energy taxes. The cost of energy has a very potent impact upon household spending. Lowering energy costs could potentially be the closest thing there is to an economic version of adrenaline for the Irish economy.

This is the case not only because energy has a big psychological influence on household spending at point, but also on the cost of goods and services, depending on (a) site of production - Irish or foreign, and any energy price differential that exists, and (b) the amount of fossil fuel attributable to a particular product or service. The relationship between energy prices and cosumption are well established, and there is also some evidence to allow us to infer that consumers will respond more positively to structural changes in energy costs than they will to (say) a barefaced economic stimulus package (like a retrofitting stimulus as announced in the recent jobs budget initiative, which at best is a short term measure that the consumer knows full well is linked to a crisis.

okiss

If some of the money in savings was spent the tax take would go up and people would be kept in jobs. The more people working even in min wage jobs the better it is for the country.
With jobs comes more money in circulation and less being paid out by the state to the people not working.

ninty9er

chelseavera wrote: »

Dont think what I've got to spend will rescue the economy!

It's called the multiplier effect. Not too complicated. You spend it, the person that you gave it to spends it, the person they gave it to spends it and we all keep each other going.

Taxi Drivers

Noonan is right that there is plenty of income that is not been spent.



I'm not sure how much is available for consumption as most if it is probably being used to pay down debt.

Dannyboy83

On the bright side, if people go spending all their savings, Noonan will have to go begging to the ECB for some funds to recapitalize the banks.

I'm serious in saying this, I can see this being the prelude to a deposit raid - as was seen in the pension raid.

Noonan: "If people aren't going to spend it, we'll take it off them and spend it for them"

JustinDee

The convenient distortion of what he actually said and meant would make even a Daily Mail showbiz editor blush.

ilovesleep

He is probably right. I'm so fearful of the future I buy very little now with my wage. Just the basics. Bills, rent, and food. The rest I dont spend and when I do indulge in some spending no matter how small it is like it could be just a cinema trip I am so guilty because it's simply not needed. I have taken up a few sociable hobbies though lately which I do budget for and aside from that no more spending from me. If there was some sort of comfort and confidence that the country is safe I would love to head out and spend, spend, spend