New legislation proposed in U.S. to legalise marijuana

aligator_am

Noticed this earlier and thought it was interesting, I doubt it will make it through as law but as some pointed out in the AH thread about how to cut €5bn / raise additional revenue in Ireland it would likely bring money in for the state.

Do you think it would work over here?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/06/23/137372951/ron-paul-barney-frank-to-introduce-bill-that-would-end-pot-prohibition

Reps. Ron Paul (R-TX) and Barney Frank (D-MA) are set to introduce a bipartisan bill today that would remove the federal prohibition on marijuana. The bill would instead let states legalize, regulate and tax marijuana.

The USA Today reports the bill is being championed by a legalization advocacy group:

The Marijuana Policy Project highlights that 46.5% of Californians voted for Proposition 19. It also cites a report released this month by the Global Commission on Drug Policy that slammed the decades-old war on drugs and called on governments to take a look at decriminalizing marijuana and other drugs.

The bill by Frank and Paul would "end state/federal conflicts over marijuana policy, re-prioritize federal resources and provide more room for states to do what is best for their own citizens," the group says.

Politico says the legislation is modeled after the 21st Amendment to the Constitution, which repealed the federal prohibition on alcohol and handed that responsibility to the states. Quoting the Marijuana Policy Project, Politico reports its "the first bill ever introduced in Congress to end federal marijuana prohibition."

But, as CNN money puts it, the bill is a long shot. But part of the point, adds CNN, is to start a conversation.

The bill is co-sponsored by Reps. John Conyers (D-MI), Steve Cohen (D-TN), Jared Polis (D-CO), and Barbara Lee (D-CA).

Biggins

Expect the Obama to use his office veto if he's advised it will set a bad precedent.

RichieC

We should focus more on the industrial hemp side of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY

ScumLord

RichieC wrote: »

We should focus more on the industrial hemp side of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY

Medical and hemp cannabis should be legalised tomorrow, there's absolutely no reason at all why these shouldn't be legal.

I think the world will have no choice but to turn back to hemp as it's the solution to the problems our oil based products will face as oil goes up in price. At this stage we should be doing whatever we can to preserve our oil.

policarp

All the pet budgies in the world will be deligted...

Daegerty

Finally a reason to go to the States

Chuck Stone

Not gonna happen.

Too many people making billions on keeping it illegal.

Evil sadistic bastards that they are.

bandit197

In before the "Cannabis leads to Heroin" brigade

Augmerson

I am not in favour of legalisation, I am in favour of decriminalisation.

Daegerty

Augmerson wrote: »

I am not in favour of legalisation, I am in favour of decriminalisation.

I'm in favour of a mandatory spliff once a week. Just by reading the sh1te in this forum I think a lot of people could do with lightening up a bit

the groutch

the US government are in the pocket of big businesses, including the tobacco giants, never gonna happen

ScumLord

Augmerson wrote: »

I am not in favour of legalisation, I am in favour of decriminalisation.

Why?

mgmt

Augmerson wrote: »

I am not in favour of legalisation, I am in favour of decriminalisation.

Really!!!

Just decriminalising it will still allow the drug lords to make a racket. Legalise it for focks sake and tax it.

Chuck Stone

Augmerson wrote: »

I am not in favour of legalisation, I am in favour of decriminalisation.

So you don't have a problem with demand and consumption but you do with supply?

How do you reconcile these views?

Daegerty

Chuck Stone wrote: »

So you don't have a problem with demand and consumption but you do with supply?

How do you reconcile these views?

Chuck Norris will sort these problems out

biko

bandit197 wrote: »

In before the "Cannabis leads to Heroin" brigade

In after "There is no known problems with smoking cannabis" brigade

mgmt

the groutch wrote: »

the US government are in the pocket of big businesses, including the tobacco giants, never gonna happen

and also in the pocket of the main defence contractors in the US who make a mint off of the "war on drugs".

LA Times
As drug cartels wreak murderous havoc from Mexico to Panama, the Obama administration is unable to show that the billions of dollars spent in the war on drugs have significantly stemmed the flow of illegal narcotics into the United States, according to two government reports and outside experts.

The reports specifically criticize the government's growing use of U.S. contractors, which were paid more than $3 billion to train local prosecutors and police, help eradicate fields of coca, operate surveillance equipment and otherwise battle the widening drug trade in Latin America over the last five years.

The majority of U.S. counter-narcotics contracts are awarded to five companies: DynCorp, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, ITT and ARINC, according to the report for the contracting oversight subcommittee, part of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/09/world/la-fg-narco-contract-20110609

It's about the money Lebowski!

LenaClaire

the groutch wrote: »

the US government are in the pocket of big businesses, including the tobacco giants, never gonna happen

You would think that the tobacco companies would be all for it. I mean, they have growers and factories ready to go as soon as it is legal and their market would expand.

They would probably get even more people smoking tobacco if they had "laced" cigarettes or something.

Augmerson

Chuck Stone wrote: »

So you don't have a problem with demand and consumption but you do with supply?

How do you reconcile these views?

I have a serious problem if the supplier is going to be the Irish Government. They haven't exactly handled alcohol or tobacco in an impressive manner. You really want them to handle the legalisation and taxation of Cannabis?

mgmt

jujibee wrote: »

You would think that the tobacco companies would be all for it. I mean, they have growers and factories ready to go as soon as it is legal and their market would expand.

They would probably get even more people smoking tobacco if they had "laced" cigarettes or something.

Noone would bother smoking cannabis with tobacco. It wrecks it.

LenaClaire

mgmt wrote: »

Noone would bother smoking cannabis with tobacco. It wrecks it.

Maybe they would just lace with THC rather than actual cannabis. I dunno, just seems that they already have the growth, factories, packaging and distribution ready to go... just change the actual leaf going into it.

Never going to pass anyway but the actual logistics would be pretty easy I would think.

ScumLord

biko wrote: »

In after "There is no known problems with smoking cannabis" brigade

Augmerson wrote: »

I have a serious problem if the supplier is going to be the Irish Government. They haven't exactly handled alcohol or tobacco in an impressive manner. You really want them to handle the legalisation and taxation of Cannabis?

Yes I'd rather my elected government handle it. I don't think the government will be the supplier either it's a free economy they'd license it out as they do with alcohol.

onelessprob

ScumLord wrote: »

Medical and hemp cannabis should be legalised tomorrow, there's absolutely no reason at all why these shouldn't be legal.

I think the world will have no choice but to turn back to hemp as it's the solution to the problems our oil based products will face as oil goes up in price. At this stage we should be doing whatever we can to preserve our oil.

The reason cannabis was outlawed in the US initially was due to extensive anti-hemp and anti-cannabis bogey-man propaganda by Randolph Hearst. He had forestry and lumber interests which would have been threatened by the cheap availability of hemp. If it wasn't so usefull, it never would have been banned! And cannabis was just an innocent bystander, lumped in with hemp.

strobe

jujibee wrote: »

Maybe they would just lace with THC rather than actual cannabis. I dunno, just seems that they already have the growth, factories, packaging and distribution ready to go... just change the actual leaf going into it.

It would be no different than saying a chocolate company or a pen company would sell it to saying a tobacco company would. They all have the same logistics in place. The fact that tobacco companies have relationships with tobacco growers or even their own tobacco land and crop doesn't offer them any advantage over any other company in any other business really. Planting cannabis seeds on land previously used for tobacco cultivation wouldn't happen.

Augmerson

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes I'd rather my elected government handle it. I don't think the government will be the supplier either it's a free economy they'd license it out as they do with alcohol.

It would be interesting to see how exactly they would do that (licensing).

strobe

Augmerson wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how exactly they would do that (licensing).

Same as with pubs and off licenses presumably.

LenaClaire

strobe wrote: »

It would be no different than saying a chocolate company or a pen company would sell it to saying a tobacco company would. They all have the same logistics in place. The fact that tobacco companies have relationships with tobacco growers or even their own tobacco land and crop doesn't offer them any advantage over any other company in any other business really. Planting cannabis seeds on land previously used for tobacco cultivation wouldn't happen.

Not exactly, cigarette companies have machines that roll cigarettes, boxes of the right size etc.

mgmt

jujibee wrote: »

Not exactly, cigarette companies have machines that roll cigarettes, boxes of the right size etc.

If it was legalised a lot of people would just grow it in their gardens.

LenaClaire

mgmt wrote: »

If it was legalised a lot of people would just grow it in their gardens.

I will give you that... although knowing the US they would probably make it illegal unless you buy from an approved seller Gotta make money somehow

sdanseo

Daegerty wrote: »

Chuck Norris will sort these problems out

Oh what a well-thought-out and insightful reply. Why don't we send him to Iraq and Afghanistan too - we'll have World peace by Sunday.

flutterflye

Never liked the stuff myself - bores me and makes me paranoid.

But I don't see it to be anymore harmful than alcohol, just different.

I think they should legalise it.

It's a long time coming.

The High King

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs

Cathaoirleach

Ireland could at least decriminalise it for a start.

In Spain, you are legally allowed to grow marijuana and consume in your own home. The cops turn a blind eye to casual smoking in public parks and plazas at night - they have better things to be doing. Sometimes they'll tell you to move on. The most they can do is confiscate it and give you a fine but that's pretty rare. There is a lot more tolerance in Spain.

The Gardaí act like the fúcking Gestapo if they get a whiff of hash. It's ridiculous.

Chuck Stone

Augmerson wrote: »

I have a serious problem if the supplier is going to be the Irish Government. They haven't exactly handled alcohol or tobacco in an impressive manner. You really want them to handle the legalisation and taxation of Cannabis?

No. I want the free market to handle it. Who says the government should have anything to do with it? They'd have their pound of flesh from taxation anyway, no doubt.

Augmerson wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how exactly they would do that (licensing).

Licensing is a fudge. As someone else said people would just grow their own, on their own property in their own time, why should they have a licence?

That's half the reason it's not legal. Twitchy, conservative, a$sholes hate the idea that someobody somewhere is having a bit of a buzz.

The prohibition of drugs is one of the greatest farces of recent decades.

Btw the only drug I consume is alcohol. You don't have to be an illegal drug consumer to see how immoral prohibition is.

Cathaoirleach

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Twitchy, conservative, a$sholes hate the idea that someobody somewhere is having a bit of a buzz.

Agreed, though I think it's more to do with the fact that these Joe Duffy-types have never actually tried cannabis and just ignorantly assume that it's as dangerous as heroin.

They refuse the look at the facts and stats that alcohol and tobacco cause the most drug-related deaths in Ireland. Cannabis-related deaths in Ireland? Give me a break :rolleyes:

It's these type of people we're up against:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObbLapUaZd4

strobe

jujibee wrote: »

Not exactly, cigarette companies have machines that roll cigarettes, boxes of the right size etc.

Well I don't envisage pre-rolled joints being anyway near as popular as pre-rolled cigarettes, for a few dozen reasons, and pen, battery and cheese companies have boxes of the right size etc too...

But this is all beside the point somewhat.

I would imagine the alcohol industry would have a far louder objection to legalised cannabis than the tobacco industry.

Chuck Stone

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Agreed, though I think it's more to do with the fact that these Joe Duffy-types have never actually tried cannabis and just ignorantly assume that it's as dangerous as heroin.

They refuse the look at the facts and stats that alcohol and tobacco cause the most drug-related deaths in Ireland. Cannabis-related deaths in Ireland? Give me a break :rolleyes:

These points are all very valid but I think we should turn the tables on them. Make them answer questions about their morality.

The only question that prohibition supporters should answer is

'Do you support state violence against peaceful people'?

They'll always only answer one way 'Of course I don't!'

Then we say;

'So you're against people being kidnapped and imprisoned for the vegetation they have in their pocket. If you aren't then you're a sadist who likes to see peacefull people being abused'.

Simple as that.

We turn the tables and let them know they are the ones hurting others, not drug users.

Jagle

Surely the Question we need to ask ourselves, is how do we do this here?

for those interested, those who think its the devil can leave now

ScumLord

Chuck Stone wrote: »

No. I want the free market to handle it. Who says the government should have anything to do with it? They'd have their pound of flesh from taxation anyway, no doubt.



Licensing is a fudge. As someone else said people would just grow their own, on their own property in their own time, why should they have a licence?

The average citizen could grow a few plants for themselves but most people can't/won't grow their own and there will have to be a supply for them or they'll just stick with the black market. It's very easy to make your own alcohol but we don't see many people doing that because they can buy much better drink at a much lower cost so it makes no sense to make your own alcohol.

The entire cannabis economy has to be taken out of the hands of criminals.

Spunge

mgmt wrote: »

If it was legalised a lot of people would just grow it in their gardens.

Like the way everyone grows their own fruit and vegetables ?

The High King

Spunge wrote: »

Like the way everyone grows their own fruit and vegetables ?

Fruit & vegetables don't get you high though. Fruit & vegetables aren't your friend. Fruit & vegetables will judge you.

maxell2010

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The only question that prohibition supporters should answer is

'Do you support state violence against peaceful people'?

They'll always only answer one way 'Of course I don't!'

Then we say;

'So you're against people being kidnapped and imprisoned for the vegetation they have in their pocket. If you aren't then you're a sadist who likes to see peacefull people being abused'.

Simple as that.

We turn the tables and let them know they are the ones hurting others, not drug users.

Very well put...

maxell2010

Jagle wrote: »

Surely the Question we need to ask ourselves, is how do we do this here?

for those interested, those who think its the devil can leave now

Been thinkng about this... Harass our Minister for Health, find/join organisations trying to raise awareness/get new legislation through - there's got to be a few doctors willing to stick their neck out here??

Oh_Noes

flutterflye wrote: »

Never liked the stuff myself - bores me and makes me paranoid.

But I don't see it to be anymore harmful than alcohol, just different.

I think they should legalise it.

It's a long time coming.

Ah Flutter it's the same old thing every....wait a minute!!:eek:

flutterflye

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Ah Flutter it's the same old thing every....wait a minute!!:eek:

I'm very tired right now - so you're going to have to break it down for me!

What?!

Oh_Noes

flutterflye wrote: »

I'm very tired right now - so you're going to have to break it down for me!

What?!

Sorry, a bit of an in-joke among people who usually frequent these threads about someone who shares a similar name to you.

I agree with your point but would like to point out that we'd have a lot more in terms of variety and quality if growing it was legal. Like there would be strains that make you more energetic than tired and some that make you less paranoid. If you check out videos of people in cannabis dispensaries in California, it's always interesting how the vendor explains the different effects of the variety of strains.

flutterflye

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Sorry, a bit of an in-joke among people who usually frequent these threads about someone who shares a similar name to you.

I agree with your point but would like to point out that we'd have a lot more in terms of variety and quality if growing it was legal. Like there would be strains that make you more energetic than tired and some that make you less paranoid. If you check out videos of people in cannabis dispensaries in California, it's always interesting how the vendor explains the different effects of the variety of strains.

Ah okay thanks

Got any of that handy?! ^

Oh_Noes

flutterflye wrote: »

Ah okay thanks

Got any of that handy?! ^

Are you a cop?!?!

Nvm, I'm a bit paranoid

RussellTuring

strobe wrote: »

Well I don't envisage pre-rolled joints being anyway near as popular as pre-rolled cigarettes, for a few dozen reasons, and pen, battery and cheese companies have boxes of the right size etc too...

But this is all beside the point somewhat.

I would imagine the alcohol industry would have a far louder objection to legalised cannabis than the tobacco industry.

Quite right. I don't drink that much at all but if I could walk into a coffee shop on O'Connell Street and hang out with friends for a few hours, I'd drink a fraction of what I do now. Imagine the implications for the health service if we assume that I'm not the only one.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

These points are all very valid but I think we should turn the tables on them. Make them answer questions about their morality.

The only question that prohibition supporters should answer is

'Do you support state violence against peaceful people'?

They'll always only answer one way 'Of course I don't!'

Then we say;

'So you're against people being kidnapped and imprisoned for the vegetation they have in their pocket. If you aren't then you're a sadist who likes to see peacefull people being abused'.

Simple as that.

We turn the tables and let them know they are the ones hurting others, not drug users.

If it's that simple, why don't you try it for real? In my experience, people who support prohibition do so because they think that legalisation/decriminalisation would lead to much worse equivalents to Ireland's irresponsible drinking culture and of course, cause all the kids to start smoking the heroin. These people might say they won't support state violence but they will if they think their children are going to be corrupted. What we have to do is not trick people with moral riddles rooted in libertarian politics they probably don't agree with, but make it clear that prohibition is the real problem and allowing a more transparent supply network to develop is the only solution to many of the problems we associate with currently illegal drugs.

Fremen

Cannabis can turn you criminally insane.

Endy story.
(rabble rabble)

Irishstabber

Free the weed man like totally far out dude.

Cannabis prohibition is an absolutely hilarious farce. I can only imagine that our elected officials have no knowledge of what it is and its true effects or have been lobbied by the business elite to oppose any change to its illegality.

EDIT: Except for our friend MING. What a guy. http://documentaryheaven.com/the-life-and-crimes-of-citizen-ming/