Big 4 or Fund Accountancy?

shanestallion

Hi all,

I know that this is totally my choice but I am looking for some advice on this decision. I have been offered a job in a fund accountant role with a top US investment bank and I have also been offered a role in transactions with a big 4 firm. Have any of you any advice as to a better career path? I have read numerous opinions both for and against fund accountancy, I am actually very interested in it, it seems like a great place for a graduate like me to start. The start would be immediately and they would pay for my professional exams etc.

The position of transactions in a big 4 firm is certainly nothing to pass up either, great career prospects however the role would not start til september and to be honest I really need some money at present. Is it very bad to accept the fund accountancy role and then leave after less than 2 months to start in a big 4?

I would love to hear some of your career path stories and any decisions job wise you had to made? Do you have any regrets? Has anybody started in fund accountancy and progressed to a better position in the company with a higher pay rise?
Basically both are very similar starting salaries but I am thinking about the future and how far I can go in each role, Im extremely motivated and will do whatever it takes to bring my career as far as it can go.

tomfoolery60

Not sure what you mean by "transactions" in a Big 4. Could you clarify?

Generally if you want to keep your options open it is a better idea to train in practice as you will get wider exposure to things. Funds accounting is a little limiting. Even training as a funds auditor in a Big 4 will have a wider variety of positions open to you post qualification.

Balance that with the awful salary you will get in a Big 4 and longer working hours.

JohnnyCarmello

I assume he means transaction advisory services?

shanestallion

Sorry I mean transaction advisory services. I understand the scope with a big 4 firm is much wider and an overall better position to begin a career. If you are employed for under 2 months, how long before you quit do you have to give your notice? The wages for both companies are very similar starting off so there is no real better one in that way

tomfoolery60

If it is TS you should take that. You'll get some good exposure to audit and have more interesting work the rest of the time than us poor sods in audit. It's great experience.

If you really need the cash there is nothing stopping you starting in the bank and quiting! It would not be wise to turn down the better option for the sake of a few months of pay.

shanestallion

tomfoolery60, you have read my mind! Since I am a graduate I have no experience with quitting these types of jobs etc. That is what I have been thinking alright and if things work out my way I think I will do that. Many thanks!
if you have any other advice I would greatly appreciate it?

careca11

shanestallion wrote: »

Hi all,

I know that this is totally my choice but I am looking for some advice on this decision. I have been offered a job in a fund accountant role with a top US investment bank and I have also been offered a role in transactions with a big 4 firm. Have any of you any advice as to a better career path? I have read numerous opinions both for and against fund accountancy, I am actually very interested in it, it seems like a great place for a graduate like me to start. The start would be immediately and they would pay for my professional exams etc.

The position of transactions in a big 4 firm is certainly nothing to pass up either, great career prospects however the role would not start til september and to be honest I really need some money at present. Is it very bad to accept the fund accountancy role and then leave after less than 2 months to start in a big 4?

I would love to hear some of your career path stories and any decisions job wise you had to made? Do you have any regrets? Has anybody started in fund accountancy and progressed to a better position in the company with a higher pay rise?
Basically both are very similar starting salaries but I am thinking about the future and how far I can go in each role, Im extremely motivated and will do whatever it takes to bring my career as far as it can go.

fund accountancy is an area on the up , thats what I would be going after , and considering its an area you want to go , then go for it ,
you get one shot at life , so do things that will make you happy .

Pixie001

I would strongly advise you to take the job in transaction services over fund accounting. I have worked in both (most recently big 4). I have a lot of friends from when I worked in fund accounting who are still stuck there, and have no prospects of leaving. I think that experience in transaction services will allow you much wider career possibilities/paths post qualification than fund accounting will.

You should also consider what accounting qualification you will be getting - most big 4 will be ACA, whereas fund accounting will be ACCA (with a lot less study leave).

Don't focus on the start date too much - although I know that it is important to you, think of the longer term i.e. post qualification, where you want to go/what you want to do!

LightningBolt

Fund accounting is a back office job, just because you would be working for the likes of JP Morgan, Goldman, Citi, BNY Mellon doesn't mean you'll get to meet with front office. Their front office locations are based in London, New York. Boston. You'll be pigeon holed into fund accounting with little exit opportunities to other careers unless you end up doing a masters in an unrelated field to move into something completely different or a masters in finance to try and reposition yourself in financial services.

Transaction services involves due diligence on mergers and acquisitions ans some other stuff. It would get you a lot closer to investment bankers if you became more senior within big 4. The exit opportunities/career change options will be far greater if you go for this role. If you wanted to move into private equity after three or four years in TS you'd stand a good chance of landing a job with a mid market/boutique PE company due to your experience.

If I were you I'd go for the TS role, more interesting work and better career options down the line.

As for taking the fund accounting job I personally wouldn't do it although if you're badly stuck for cash it beats doing nothing.

shanestallion

Thanks a lot people, you all have some very interesting points alright. From what I have read the fund accountancy route does seem like a dead end job alright, although it would be with one of the companies you mentioned LightningBolt who are big names. To be completely honest is there anything stopping me from starting with this investment bank as a fund accountant and then leaving around 2 months later to start in a big 4? This seems like a good option to me but I dont know if this is possible? Does it look very bad on my cv?

tomfoolery60

You'll be with the Big 4 for at least 3 years. Why would you put a two month placement on your CV? If you can afford it go an travel, you won't get the same chance when you are working/doing headwrecking ACA exams

shanestallion

Thanks tomfoolery60, how long do i have to give notice when leaving the fund accountancy then? prob a week or two?

tomfoolery60

Your contract will say. You might even still be in probation and there may be little in the way of notice

shanestallion

Excellent, i thought as much! well at least thats sorted for the next few years! How long have you been in audit tomfoolery60?

Vaioer

tomfoolery60 wrote: »

If it is TS you should take that. You'll get some good exposure to audit and have more interesting work the rest of the time than us poor sods in audit. It's great experience.

People in the TS area in our place seem to have spent most of their contracts in audit as there is absolutely no TS work about.

LightningBolt

shanestallion wrote: »

Thanks a lot people, you all have some very interesting points alright. From what I have read the fund accountancy route does seem like a dead end job alright, although it would be with one of the companies you mentioned LightningBolt who are big names. To be completely honest is there anything stopping me from starting with this investment bank as a fund accountant and then leaving around 2 months later to start in a big 4? This seems like a good option to me but I dont know if this is possible? Does it look very bad on my cv?

To be technically correct they're not investment banks at all they're merely fund administration companies. There is a massive difference between Goldman Sachs investment bank and Goldman Sachs fund administration.

If you decided to string whatever fund admin along for a couple of months I wouldn't even bother putting it down on the CV. You'll be given a small fund or two to look after that is quite straightforward. There'd be very little to be gained from working there for such a short space of time that it doesn't warrant putting down. Also, anybody who knows anything about big four would spot that you knowingly took on a job for two months having already secured employment elsewhere. Can't imagine it would go down too well.

ManwitaPlan

careca11 wrote: »

fund accountancy is an area on the up , thats what I would be going after , and considering its an area you want to go , then go for it ,
you get one shot at life , so do things that will make you happy .

Please dont take this advice.

The offers are not even comparable....Big 4 TS is far far superior.

Fund accounting is a dead end job with very little chance of ever progressing to anything worthwhile (i.e. middle office, front office would be almost imossible).

Big 4 TAS is held in quite high regard, you will come out with a solid qualification (ACA) and earnings potential is far greater. Add to that the work will be infinitely more interesting than fund accounting and I dont see how this is even close.

Theboinkmaster

Big 4 TS all the way. and do not join a company just for 2 months looks really bad and might stop you from getting into a big 4. plus it's just wrong.

shanestallion

Thanks guys for all your advice. It does seem a little cheeky to just work there for 2 months and then leave. I suppose the big 4 would see it on my P45 and it would look bad.

tomfoolery60

Why would the firm you are joining give a damn about what is on your P45? And even then nobody who matters will even see it. It's not like the payroll department run the Big 4.

Lots of sensible advice on funds accounting here bar whoever said it was "on the up".

Agreed there is little in the way or work regarding TS (except maybe some NAMA stuff) but audit, as much fun as it can be, is solid training. Plus having a large amount of people your age working with you makes the social side of things pretty decent.

shanestallion

That is a good point. The big 4 is sending out the contract on monday so i will have a careful read over it. From what I gather the earnings potential with a big 4 is pretty high, am i right? They said that their TS team is relatively small and that they are building it up at the moment. you give some good advice tomfoolery!

Jim2007

LightningBolt wrote: »

Can't imagine it would go down too well.

To say nothing of them deciding to make a formal complaint with the potential student's institute.

Jim

definitely big 4 TS. gives you lot of opps - qualify and then go to London to the banks (good to work abroad for a while) or stay in Ire and get a good job in industry - plenty of time to decide along the way. fund admin is a soul-destroying job from what I hear and is stressful to boot.
taking the job for 2 months you could get away with but is probably depriving someone else of a full-time job so it's morally wrong (then again you'll be an accountant soon enough so your morals will be corrupted in any case ) ...

darklighter

stallion you are being given good advice here.

I'm looking to get out of fund accounting after nearly 4 years of minimal pay rises with no progression and no hope of progression as i'm not in the right clique.

Yes you will make more money in funds for the first couple of years but the trade off is exam leave is basically non existant.

If you need any more incentive, take a look at any of the jobs being advertised at the mo for qualified accountants, the majority are looking for big4 trained.

Take the job for the 2 months as well, on the off chance anyone does ask, you can tell them funds just wasnt for you (which after 2 months, prob wouldnt be a lie either)

colbags

hi
im in a similar situation to stallion...trying to choose between funds and the big 4

the advice here is very good and im glad i came across it....i had pretty much decided on big 4 but im glad to have come across this for extra confirmation...

the one reservation i have about my choice is the pitiful salary..a friend of mine just took a funds jobs in dublin and will be on 28k and hes laughing at what im goin to be on...(i wouldnt blame him). Also, as far as i can see the pay scale is pretty poor for accountants. Some fully qualified ACA's getting as low as 25k (small firm, outside dublin) according to other threads on this site. Poor form considering the work that goes into it.

Anyway my plan is to get through my 3.5 years and then try and get into the more interesting aspects of financial services ie. investment banking, stockbroking or something in financial markets. Is this a reasonable possibility??? Anybody any experience with changing roles after qualifying?? ( i also hav an msc in finance so this wud likely be an advantage??)

cheers

GEKKO135

I think I might be able to add to the already overwhelmingly negative outlook on fund accounting. I'm a recent grad and am in the job two months now with what is noted as the biggest fund admin company in Ireland. I definitely wouldn't say that i'm bored out of my mind in the job and compared to the slow paced and hungover environment of college it is definitely a change. I still have 16 or so funds that I have to get my head around so I'll probably be busy enough for the next while. The people i work with are a nice bunch and easy to get on with and life in the city is pretty cool.


But having said that I can understand how people leave on an ongoing basis. The work is repetitive and so automated that sometimes you feel your just there to click a mouse all day...oh and sign your name about 500 times a day too. You would also think that after two months i'd have complete systems access, instead i'm constantly heckling members of the team to use their computers which takes a lot of time and come rush hour you can be lucky to get a response from other admins. The salary i'm on is pitiful thanks to the current jobs market and i'm beginning to think it's not really worth working for as a lot of the days you have to come in early and stay on late with no additional pay (unless its official overtime)...and don't get me wrong i don't mind working hard but i feel it could all be in vain in fund accounting. I know plenty of admins who have been on 3, 4 or even 5 years and still haven't gotten promoted. To add to that most days you have to eat lunch at your desk. Finally, I think the fact that no one in there is under 25 (on my team anyway) means i haven't really made any friends or had much of a social life since working there and i think your bound to find people your age in the big four.


So OP, if i were you i'd go for the latter. I myself am quite confused as to what i should do but most likely i'll be leaving this job in the not so distant future and will make sure i get into an area of finance that makes you want to get up in the morning.

Muse23

hi, i'm starting work at fund accounting company in dublin pretty soon.i started applying for jobs as trainee accountant after i finished my accountancy masters back in august, mainly with big 4 and medium sized firms.also applied for the fund accountant position,which i got offer for.at the time of offer,didn't have any other offers so i accepted,definitely wud prefer it to nothin.i had been intending to go aca, have cap1 and cap2.but would have to do acca if stayed with fund accounting firm.
don't really mind doing acca, i've read about both and not lookin for feedback on the two qualifications or the fact it may now take longer to get thru exams.but basically,was thinking of keeping applying for 2012 intake for medium and big 4 accountancy firms, maybe for audit graduate program.hav applications in before recent deadlines,waitin for response from them.
just wonderin, how wud potential accounting firm look upon my intent to leave current firm or the fact i have a job,wud they see it as a positive thing,good ambition wantin to leav for better,etc.or wud they look at it negatively?
ideal scenario wud b to get accepted for september 2012 intake and wud b workin for under a year in fund accounting place and then movin on,try get away with startin down acca route.wudnt even mind enterin a 3.5 year contract if necessary for accounting firm. I get that it may look bad if u enter a job knowing u'll b leaving for another job soon but wuda thot it'd b understandable if i got offer after i started job and wanted to leave for better career prospects.
fairly long winded but any feedback appreciated.
also,wud workin for medium/small sized accounting practice for training contract be better for career progression than workin as entry level fund accountant for same period?

smallerthanyou

colbags wrote: »

Anybody any experience with changing roles after qualifying?? ( i also hav an msc in finance so this wud likely be an advantage??)

Almost everyone changes roles after qualifying in big 4! I qualified and left in 2010 when the jobs market was supposed to be poor - the amount of interviews and job around was unbelievable! Most of my friend who have left are in pretty diverse roles (Central Bank, Compliance, Pricing Transactions, some are in accounts departments etc). I had a M.Acc and it did help a little I think in getting post qualification interviews.

If someone really wanted to do Funds Accounting I would advise them to do 3.5 years in Big 4 and then apply into the higher level roles in Fund Administrators. You would enter at a higher level that if you start at bottom and work for 3.5 years and the potential for progression would be improved.

surfdudette

I agree with almost everything GEKKO135 said. I've been working in fund accounting for 7.5yrs and I'm doing pretty much the same work now as when I started, just more supervising (with all its headaches, I spend most of my time correcting silly mistakes and showing people keyboard shortcuts - it can be mind-numbing/soul-destroying - those are actually popular in-house descriptions). I started on a pretty good salary and got promoted quickly over the first 2yrs so salary went up a good bit then. But since that it's been much slower, and pay has been frozen for last 2yrs (due to economic climate) but we still get some bonuses. The people working in it (in my company anyway) are all quite young, and usually come and go quite a bit - I only know a few people over 40, and there are leaving do's almost weekly (it's a big company, but still!). Agree again, work is fairly standard for the most part and the company is constantly working to automate every little thing as much as possible. There are people working in there who did no finance/business in college at all (e.g. some did social studies, engineering, chemistry - I'm guessing the generous salary lured them) but after just 4 days training away they go to start working in full on funds, with little/no understanding of the actual accounting behind the transactions. So you don't need much knowledge, and you won't learn much either unless you do it on your own time. Studying for accounting exams is done by some but it's not necessary and it'll take up most of your annual leave. You may even have to come into work on your exam day (it has happened). We do start early and work late almost every day, and it is quite stressful where even going for your full hour of lunch is not a given (especially at higher levels though). There are days where you work til 9-10pm, though more usually 6-8. It's an ok job for a few years to build up some savings, but not long-term I don't think. I'd like to move out of it myself but when I look for other jobs they're always looking for Big4 or qualified accountants ... I rushed into this career without weighing it up properly (my prior job was a nightmare) so make sure you do! Best of luck, and don't worry if you only work there 2 mths, there have been people who only worked where I am for 3-4mths then left, there's nothing the company can do as long as you give proper notice (as far as I know) and no need to put it on the CV. I have never worked in a Big4 but it is better for future prospects I believe.

Emperor1989

I just recently started in Fund Accountancy about 1 month in a big US firm. I agree that the work is repetitive but its a great start to working life, little or no pressure, solid hours and laid back atmosphere. Basically you work from 9-11 hand around till lunch then wait till 3 and busy till close and thats it. Money is better than big 4 for me about 3k better. Its a good starting job if you have a big company. Basically i just want to get qualified and then leave, i be on my finals in acca and plan to get them done in 1yr-2yr time span. Then i get just get up and move on. Time off is poor enough but compared to aca I think its a much easier route to go down. Aca exams 4 in one year and work are just too much for me and the mind boring audit process is something i just could not fathom doing for 3 years running around companies.

As I said Fund accountancy just is a job to help you leave college and get a big company on the cv with expierence and get qualified. As soon as you do that hit for the hills or try and move in the company to area's of corporate finance.

Persoanlly I am eyeing up PWC corporate finance area that is growing in Dublin or move over to London and try and get a place with Barclays or somewhere like Goldman Sachs in 2-3 years. But in the mean time I want to easiest possible job that allows me to get qualified guarnteed in the quickest period and it suits me perfectly as far as I am concerend.

Emperor1989

Also it is very important to seperate yourself in the management eyes. For instance you dont need accounting but if you show you want to get qualified asap it it a massive advantage down the line as they can recomened you for much more positions that require a much more in depth knowledge and basis in the future.

I can not stress enough the difference from working in Fund Accountancy as a means to get qualified and working in Fund Accountancy to just work. The difference is massive IMO, the former will give you a great chance to get a really good job once you get your exams the latter is a very boring and lacks any potential for real growth.

MBA is something you should also be looking at and discussing with management down the road. I plan to pursue one in Smurfit in about 5 years give or take to strengthen my career as I already have a Masters.

Its challenging out there and the people who put in the work to get qualified and enhance there C.V. will get the big jobs IMO.

LightningBolt

Emperor1989 wrote: »

Persoanlly I am eyeing up PWC corporate finance area that is growing in Dublin or move over to London and try and get a place with Barclays or somewhere like Goldman Sachs in 2-3 years. But in the mean time I want to easiest possible job that allows me to get qualified guarnteed in the quickest period and it suits me perfectly as far as I am concerend.

You do know you probably have a 1% chance of moving to GS to work in a front office role in 2-3 years time?

Emperor1989

agree with you lightening bolt. Very little chance in 3 years but who knows 10-15 years down the line. Not saying I will ever get there but just saying there is potential for growth in the future if your commited to get further educate yourself.

After all for most jobs for people coming out of college all you want to be getting is some expirence.

LightningBolt

Emperor1989 wrote: »

agree with you lightening bolt. Very little chance in 3 years but who knows 10-15 years down the line. Not saying I will ever get there but just saying there is potential for growth in the future if your commited to get further educate yourself.

After all for most jobs for people coming out of college all you want to be getting is some expirence.

Ah right, I thought you were planning on trying to jump from audit/back office to front office in 2-3 years the way I read that. There's a fair few grads/soon to be grads I've come across who thinks it's relatively straightforward.

Agree with you about further education though.

jambon29

I have accepted an offer in Fund Accounting. Reading this i'm having severe doubts as i have no experience in fund Accounting and very long hours are not for me either. Don't mind working 9 to 5 but not much more.

ahlad

You dont need experience if its entry level, once you have any sort of a mind for it you'll be fine after a few months. O.T. depends on the particular workplace, some places do very little if any.

jambon29

ahlad wrote: »

You dont need experience if its entry level, once you have any sort of a mind for it you'll be fine after a few months. O.T. depends on the particular workplace, some places do very little if any.

That lifts my mood a bit. hopefully it wont be too bad. 8 to 8 in summer months would fairly depress me.