Winter tyres - will they work for me?

raindrops1

Hi i was looking for some opinions...

I live at the top of a hill. I drive a 2lt diesel mazda 6 which is a heavy enough car... For the last couple of years I have not been able to get to or from my house which is a disaster. I have a 15 mth old and baby on the way so not getting to and from house is not practical. We are considering a 4wd vehicle but would prefer not to get one.
would winter tyres work for me? I do not currently have 4wd.

anyone used them in snow/ice up hill?

Some lads on here who know their beans swear by the winter tyres so I reckon you should definitely try them. Set of steelies from the scrappies and order the winters now, have them at home ready for the winter

-Corkie-

raindrops1 wrote: »

Hi i was looking for some opinions...

I live at the top of a hill. I drive a 2lt diesel mazda 6 which is a heavy enough car... For the last couple of years I have not been able to get to or from my house which is a disaster. I have a 15 mth old and baby on the way so not getting to and from house is not practical. We are considering a 4wd vehicle but would prefer not to get one.
would winter tyres work for me? I do not currently have 4wd.

anyone used them in snow/ice up hill?

I thought about the same thing as well. Thats the joys of the wilderness!!.

raindrops1

Thanks for the replies but excuse my ignorance.. "Set of steelies from the scrappies" - huh?? !!!

-Corkie-

raindrops1 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies but excuse my ignorance.. "Set of steelies from the scrappies" - huh?? !!!

He means a spare set of rims.

Eric Cartman

raindrops1 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies but excuse my ignorance.. "Set of steelies from the scrappies" - huh?? !!!

steel wheels , not alloy wheels (no point in decent alloys for a month or 2 of ice) theyd be cheap from a scrapyard

raindrops1

i am so thick! know nothing about tyres! can i not just take the tyres on the car now off and put on winter tyres?

Eric Cartman

you could , but youd end up changing your winter tyres every year, they can be expensive, if you got a 2nd set of wheels and put winters on them, then just kept changing your all season tyres on your current wheels, your winter ones may last a few years

Better off to have dedicated winter ones I reckon

raindrops1

now i get it ! (FinallY!!) Thanks everyone!

Rickwellwood

I've an older mazda 626 and have Bridgestone Blizzak LM20 mud and snow tyres on all year - excellent tyre - my car is front wheel drive and I was going up fairly steep inclines here in the west of ireland, hilly terrain for the most part in heavy snow conditions past two winters no problem - brilliant grip hard wearing

I was able to go places on the roads with with 4wd suv's and jeeps - you will find car ride a bit rougher on dry roads with these tyres however - Bridgestone Blizzak LM30's are on sale on www.eiretyres.ie at the moment - and they'll deliver right to your door too

I've got about 40000Km on my tyres and still good tread on them but I rotate the tyre every 10000 Km

raindrops1

Ah great thanks a mill for that info

bbam

Last December our Zaferia wouldn't go up our lane in the snow... I got 2 part worn winter tyres €30 each fitted, on the front and they did the biz, much better in snow but no real difference in hard ice.. Ran them on until end of April and then put back on the original tyres which only cost €5 to change.
Before there is a string or replies about only using 2 winter tyres we had no problems at all, no back flips, spin outs, loss of control or anything, use four if you can afford to but we didn't and it was fine... They are a big help and I'd advise you do it before buying a 4x4.

raindrops1

ah thanks everyone, feel much better about getting the tyres! here's hoping we wont need them!

Matt Simis

If you do get them remember to come back and post your results. There are fringe elements that still question the validity of claims Winters are useful, let alone sometimes absolutely needed.


Also dont get suckered into "Snow Socks" as a valid alternative, pure rubbish.

Big Nasty

Matt Simis wrote: »

If you do get them remember to come back and post your results. There are fringe elements that still question the validity of claims Winters are useful, let alone sometimes absolutely needed.


Also dont get suckered into "Snow Socks" as a valid alternative, pure rubbish.

I live in the foothills of the Dublin Mountains and drive an E38 735 as the daily motor. Big 'fcuk off' back wheels with sports tyres were suprisingly manageable at first but as things progressed the just weren't up to the job - some days I couldn't get out at all!

Bought a cheap 'ol Legacy (AWD) with spanking winter tyres and she went anywhere and everywhere without any effort. It was as good as any 4X4 albeit without the clearance in drifts, etc.

Can't say if the handling was down to the AWD or Winter Tyres but I suspect a bit of both!

Toots

What about chains? Are they any use? I'm in a similar situation, living in foothills of dublin mountains with a baby due, and last 2 years we've been trapped in the apartment complex with the snow. I don't reckon I'll be able to afford another set of tyres, and I've got nowhere to store them. I was thinking in investing in chains, but my hubby says they'll destroy my wheels?

Cuddlesworth

Toots* wrote: »

What about chains? Are they any use? I'm in a similar situation, living in foothills of dublin mountains with a baby due, and last 2 years we've been trapped in the apartment complex with the snow. I don't reckon I'll be able to afford another set of tyres, and I've got nowhere to store them. I was thinking in investing in chains, but my hubby says they'll destroy my wheels?

The problem with chains and snow socks is that we don't have the weather for them. You need huge snow covering layered ice for them to work. We get light snow and patches of ice. So they end up shredding themselves to pieces.

delly

Funny, I was only thinking about my pair of Winter tyres the other day. I decided to leave them be after the snow and ice etc., and as it was the weekend car didn't really mind the extra wear that driving on Winters in the Summer takes. I am aware that stopping in the dry can be marginally increased, but more then anything the performance in heavy rain and standing water is amazing.

Last week with a massive downpour of rain on the M1, there was rivers in the space of minutes, yet despite this I continued to have excellent grip and feedback through the steering wheel. For this benefit alone its worth keeping them on.

Rickwellwood

I kept my winter tyres (x4) on my front wheel drive mazda all year for the past two years here in hilly remote bad road conditions and plenty of potholes here in connemara with wet roads a lot of the time to maintain grip year round not just in the snow and they've been terrific all year

I dont think I'd go back to standard "summer" tyres on that car now

Nissan doctor

There is a big difference between winter tyres and snow tyres.

Winter tyres are designed to work below 4 degrees(the official minimum operating temp of summer tyres, ie, what we all drive on normally) in cold and icy conditions. Snow tyres are self explanatory.

In the conditions we had last winter, snow tyres would make a difference certainly but really, unless the hill is over maybe a 40% slope, a properly driven FWD car shouldn't have a bother.

DonJose

Would you need 4 winter types for a non 4x4. I've a BMW E39 and was thinking about just getting two tyres for the rear, would chaging all 4 tyres make much of a difference against just 2.

Oral Surgeon

Matt Simis wrote: »

Also dont get suckered into "Snow Socks" as a valid alternative, pure rubbish.

Very true, after the first snow 2010 (I sound like an old man...) I bought the snow socks as my rwd car was useless... They arrived in time for the second snow in December 2010.

The "simple fitting" was anything but, in hindsight- the website demos the fitting on a set of bike tyres attached to a yaris... I, on the other hand, had to jack up the car to fit the socks as the clearance around the wheel is small and the tyre width is 255 (in the snow) and had to borrow the jack from my dad's jeep as I had runflats.

So, I thought that I was the biz with the socks and they got me to work the next while others were stuck, then on the way home that same day- both shredded off on the M50. One of them can still be seen on the exit 13 ramp of the M50 southbound...!

Useless

Nissan doctor

DonJose wrote: »

Would you need 4 winter types for a non 4x4. I've a BMW E39 and was thinking about just getting two tyres for the rear, would chaging all 4 tyres make much of a difference against just 2.

Using just 2 snow tyres can be OK for a FWD car as the same wheels provide the drive and the steering, the rears just roll along.

On a RWD car though, using just 2 on the rear would give you grip for your drive wheels but still no grip for your steering wheels. Having more grip on the rear in slippy conditions can actually make things worse as it will increase understeer.

Nissan doctor

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Very true, after the first snow 2010 (I sound like an old man...) I bought the snow socks as my rwd car was useless... They arrived in time for the second snow in December 2010.

The "simple fitting" was anything but, in hindsight- the website demos the fitting on a set of bike tyres attached to a yaris... I, on the other hand, had to jack up the car to fit the socks as the clearance around the wheel is small and the tyre width is 255 (in the snow) and had to borrow the jack from my dad's jeep as I had runflats.

So, I thought that I was the biz with the socks and they got me to work the next while others were stuck, then on the way home that same day- both shredded off on the M50. One of them can still be seen on the exit 13 ramp of the M50 southbound...!

Useless

Thats because snow socks are only ment to be used to get out of snow covered roads. They are not ment for permenant use/normal driving on anything but snow covered roads at slow speed.

Oral Surgeon

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Thats because snow socks are only ment to be used to get out of snow covered roads. They are not ment for permenant use/normal driving on anything but snow covered roads at slow speed.

Yes but after taking 30 mins to put both on by jacking up the car the night beforehand- I really wasn't in the mood to take both off before entering the M50 and then putting both back on again after exiting the M50.

Not very practical.

Matt Simis

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Not very practical.

Its true, they are the type of thing that people think, it wont be so bad, but having to pull over, get out and on the ground, fumble with the wheels in -5c to take off the socks knowing that you may have to put them on again 20min down the road, nah.

They dont suit the real world at all.

Nissan doctor

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Yes but after taking 30 mins to put both on by jacking up the car the night beforehand- I really wasn't in the mood to take both off before entering the M50 and then putting both back on again after exiting the M50.

Not very practical.

They may well be arkward to fit to wide tyres but the fact is they are designed to be fitted to get you out of snow when your stuck, then removed when back on normal roads.

I will agree that they are impractical and I wouldn't bother using them but they shouldn't really be described as useless because they fell apart when they weren't being used correctly.

You were lucky though, I had a Vectra in during the bad weather who did the same as you, but when the sock shedded from his front wheels, it ripped his ABS sensor wires and one of his brake lines clean off.
Needless to say he was going apesh1t but changed his tune when I took the brightly coloured and colour photograph illustrated instructions for the socks from his boot and handed them to him!:rolleyes:

Oral Surgeon

Nissan doctor wrote: »

They may well be arkward to fit to wide tyres but the fact is they are designed to be fitted to get you out of snow when your stuck, then removed when back on normal roads.

So they shouldn't really be described as useless because they fell apart when they weren't being used correctly.

Sorry but imho after buying them and using them in the real world and not by the highly idealistic instructions- I found them useless and would not recommend them.

CiniO

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There is a big difference between winter tyres and snow tyres.

Winter tyres are designed to work below 4 degrees(the official minimum operating temp of summer tyres, ie, what we all drive on normally) in cold and icy conditions. Snow tyres are self explanatory.

Could you please write something more about it.
Maybe some link?

I've been driving for 12 years now, using winter tyres every single winter, and never heard there were different tyres for winter, and different for snow.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Using just 2 snow tyres can be OK for a FWD car as the same wheels provide the drive and the steering, the rears just roll along.

Did you ever drive in such setup on snow?
I assume you didn't.
Anyone who want to try it, should be 100% certain that he/she will be able to control side skids (rear breaking away) in every case, as the car will skid on most of the bends.
I'd say about 50 - 100 hours of practice on a track in snow should make a driver fully confident to drive in such setup.
Wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't practice that much.

CiniO

raindrops1 wrote: »

Hi i was looking for some opinions...

I live at the top of a hill. I drive a 2lt diesel mazda 6 which is a heavy enough car... For the last couple of years I have not been able to get to or from my house which is a disaster. I have a 15 mth old and baby on the way so not getting to and from house is not practical. We are considering a 4wd vehicle but would prefer not to get one.
would winter tyres work for me? I do not currently have 4wd.

anyone used them in snow/ice up hill?

OP it depends what kind of surface you get on the way to your hill.

If it's snow, then winter tyres will do the job.
If it's mostly ice, you probably won't make it home, no matter if on winter tyres or summer ones.
In such case I can only advice to use chains or socks (but you would have to put them on and take them off every time you are climing a hill to your house), or just use some grit, salt, sand or gravel on the surface, to make it drivable.

Nissan doctor

CiniO wrote: »

Could you please write something more about it.
Maybe some link?

I've been driving for 12 years now, using winter tyres every single winter, and never heard there were different tyres for winter, and different for snow.

Winter/all season tyres are marked as M&S(mud and snow) and are designed to be used as an all rounder. Full snow tyres are marked with a snow flake over a mountain symbol.

Most manufacturers give the lower thermal limit of summer tyres to be approx 4 degrees, any lower and they harden to the point that grip is lost, even on dry roads. The exact temperature would depend on the compound of the particular tyre though.

I noticed a marked difference in the amount of laps it took for the tyres on my old track car to heat up in cold weather versus warm weather

CiniO wrote: »

Did you ever drive in such setup on snow?
I assume you didn't.
Anyone who want to try it, should be 100% certain that he/she will be able to control side skids (rear breaking away) in every case, as the car will skid on most of the bends.
I'd say about 50 - 100 hours of practice on a track in snow should make a driver fully confident to drive in such setup.
Wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't practice that much.

I've never found the need for specific snow/winter tyres in Ireland but if the back was to slide out as you describe then you were going to fast for the conditions anyway IMO. Also controlling under steer is counter intuitive so much more difficult for the average driver whereas controlling over steer is an intuitive reaction.

BostonB

Nissan doctor wrote: »

... Also controlling under steer is counter intuitive so much more difficult for the average driver whereas controlling over steer is an intuitive reaction.

I think its the reverse. To correct understeer you simply have to brake, which is the "average" driver reaction. Correcting over steer requires opposite lock and throttle control, which takes a lot more skill and judgement. Wiki says it better.

...
Limit conditions

When an understeer vehicle is taken to frictional limits where it is no longer possible to increase lateral acceleration, the vehicle will follow a path with a radius larger than intended. Although the vehicle cannot increase lateral acceleration, it is dynamically stable.

When an oversteer vehicle is taken to frictional limits, it becomes dynamically unstable with a tendency to spin out. Although the vehicle is unstable in open-loop control, a skilled driver can maintain control a little past the point of instability with counter-steering. However, at some limit in lateral acceleration, it is not physically possible for even the most skilled driver to maintain a steady state and spinout will occur.
...

CiniO

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Winter/all season tyres are marked as M&S(mud and snow) and are designed to be used as an all rounder. Full snow tyres are marked with a snow flake over a mountain symbol.

Our friend google seems to be contradicting your theory.

First link found.
http://www.snowtyres.com.au/severe-service-emblem

M+S marking on tyres is very misleading.

Many AWD tyres are rated M+S, M&S or M/S, i.e., mud and snow. Established by the USA Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA), the M+S designation refers only to the tread pattern. The M+S standard calls for a tyre with grooves at the outside of the tread that extend into the centre. It also means that 25% of the tyre tread contact surface be open, i.e., a more open tread pattern.
You will find the M+S symbol on most all-season tyres, on off-road and all-terrain tyres and even some high performance summer tyres may have this designation. However, there are no performance standards to meet or traction tests to pass. Any tyre with grooves at angles and with 25% of the tread void can be labelled as M+S.
And on icy snow and on ice, the open tread grooves have zero effect on performance. Control of the vehicle comes strictly from equal parts of the tyre rubber compound that provides adhesion and the effects from the tread sipes.
In 1999, the RMA defined a real “snow” or winter tyre with its severe snow-rating. Car and AWD tyres that pass this performance test and are embossed with the “snowflake on a mountain peak” icon. Severe snow-rated tyres must provide traction at least 10% better than a standard reference test tyre.
The off-road, all-terrain and all-season M+S tyres cannot pass this test. The M+S rating doesn’t mean much. The severe snow rating does.

Severe Service Winter/Snow Tyres

All Nokian Tyres have the snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol denoting that they are suitable for use in severe snow conditions. The snowflake-on-the-mountain-peak symbol indicates a severe snow service conditions rating.
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.
Tyres bearing this symbol will provide snow performance far superior to tyres only bearing the M+S symbol.
The safety of any AWD vehicle in snow and icy conditions is determined by the tyres. First and foremost, the single most important aspect of a winter tire is the tread compound that remains soft at lower temperatures. Always remember that no matter how many safety features an AWD vehicle has it is the tyres that determines how it drives and handles on snow and ice.

I've never found the need for specific snow/winter tyres in Ireland but if the back was to slide out as you describe then you were going to fast for the conditions anyway IMO.

Not necesserily, as on snow surface, even at very little speeds your car will be skidding while accelerating, braking or turning.
If 4 wheels provide similar traction, everything is fine.
If you put 2 winter tyres on the front, and 2 summer tyres on the back, almost every time your go on the corner, your rear will skid.
If you don't believe me just try it.
I know what I'm saying as I was driving with such setup.

Also controlling under steer is counter intuitive so much more difficult for the average driver whereas controlling over steer is an intuitive reaction.

Every book, article, etc about driving technique seems to say something completely opposite.
If the front of your car skids on the bent (understeer) then all you have to do is slow down.
If you are lucky to have enough space for it, you just slam on the brakes to slow down. After slowing down if you are still withing the road, release the brake and continue going through the bend.

If rear of your car skids, you need to counter-steer and use your accelerator appropriately. That need ten's or hundreds of hours of practice to be done perfectly.

savagecabbages

I've heard horror stories about winter tires being used during the summer, all spongy and bouncy around the road. Having said that everyone on boards here seems to have had no problems with them all year round so maybe my fears are unfounded...
I'd say the snow & ice tires are the only way to go in Ireland, as we usually get more frost and ice than deep drifts of snow on the roads during our cold spells.

@Cinio your making no sense saying basically the same thing as everyone else about mud&snow vs snow&ice tires and then making it look like you disagree?!?!

My reckoning is its intuitive to the average driver to jam the brakes on and more or less close their eyes during loss of control! This might get them out of a straight on 'understeer' moment, but the completely wrong tactic for an 'oversteer' spin. Therefore escaping an understeer moment is more intuitive than escaping an oversteer one!

Whats intuitive to the average driver, and whats right are often two different things... Hence the need for proper training of Irish drivers:pac::pac::pac:

Matt Simis

Actually I would agree with Cino and not Nissan Doctor. The Mountain Snowflake Symbol was introduced (in Canada) to designate true Winter tyres. All Seasons (and Winters) only have the M+S Logo, which IMO is meaningless.


Having M+S and no Snowflake Symbol means you most likely have All Seasons and not Winter tyres. There are Winter tyres optimised for heavy snow in the same manner there are Summer tyres that are setup for Wet weather or ultra dry traction.

There are also studded Winter tyres, but they would never be used here.

Tabnabs

I have the snow socks and bought them as soon as I read about them last year and had them in the boot ready to go. I have 17" rims (Volvo S40) and not a great deal of space to work around the tyres. I had no trouble whatsoever getting them on or off, easily doable in 5 minutes. They got me out of big trouble on several occasions last winter. Including an the Upper Kilmacud Road in Stilorgan which was like an ice rink. Mine was one of the few cars to get up the hill that evening.

You adjust your driving to suite the conditions and after using them for about 100km of surburban driving in the snow there is not a rip or scratch on them. They are in the boot ready to go again for next winter. The deeper the snow, the better they gripped and having the back wheels clear actually turned into an advantage on a couple of occasions when I had to make a tight turn...

For Irish winters and people on a tight budget, don't discount the sock or chains so quickly.

alanclarke1975

Are we not getting Winter Tyres and Snow tyres mixed up - are they not two different types of tyres?

My car needs new tyres and was thinking of getting winter tyres now (June)

The rubber compound is designed to work better at lower temps.... and by the looks of it we aint goin to have a summer.

So the winter tyre is better in the rain/sleet damp roads.

What would the wear be like? If we do get a week of sunshine, would this ruin the tyres?

Tabnabs

to those who would like some facts:







The tires tested were Michelin Pilot Exaltos high performance summers, Michelin MXM4s OE all-season tires, Michelin X-Ice Xi2s premium winters

source

BeardyGit

Matt Simis wrote: »

There are also studded Winter tyres, but they would never be used here.

Eh, yes they are!

Matt Simis

alanclarke1975 wrote: »

Are we not getting Winter Tyres and Snow tyres mixed up - are they not two different types of tyres?

My car needs new tyres and was thinking of getting winter tyres now (June)

The rubber compound is designed to work better at lower temps.... and by the looks of it we aint goin to have a summer.

So the winter tyre is better in the rain/sleet damp roads.

What would the wear be like? If we do get a week of sunshine, would this ruin the tyres?

Unfortunately "Snow" and Winter tyres are interchangeable terms, even in other countries where this is the norm. When pushed to clarify, Snow tyres typically are studded tyres or have massive grooving. When "Winter" tyres were introduced they were called as such as they are for all situations in low temp weather (road, ice and snow). They are not fixed function tyres.

Regarding driving on them all the time, my girlfriend still has them on her car. In summer, no noticeable wear, road noise is a bit higher (still less than Chinese rubbish summer tyres) and traction seems fine. Its important to note that most Irish driving is in the morning and afternoon. Its "sunny" today but it was 11-12c on the commute to work. Temps that low are not represented accurately in the Dry tests shown above (which were done in California) though the charts are still an excellent guideline.


We parked in a damp field, tall grassy on the weekend (overflow carpark). Couple of the other cars were wheel spinning into place, the Alfa (FWD and no Traction Control!) with Winters easy drove around it with no slippage at all.

BeardyGit wrote: »

Eh, yes they are!

Always one!

Tabnabs

Surely the wet test is the critical one?

Here's a quote from a Norwegian test

While Continental stops after 26.7 meters from 80 km/h on wet asphalt, using the non-studded winter it covered 42.6 meters. While Goodyear water plans only at 99,7 km/h, the car loses all traction at 61,9 km/h with the half-worn winter tires. Even the worst summer tires in the test appears to be excellent compared with this. If you value your life do not put out on the road with these tires in the summer. Buy instead new cheap summer tyres.

(test done in Finland by http://www.testworld.fi/ )

Vicxas

I got a rear wheel drive BMW up a 30 degree incline with winter tyres, i swear by them

CiniO

savagecabbages wrote: »

@Cinio your making no sense saying basically the same thing as everyone else about mud&snow vs snow&ice tires and then making it look like you disagree?!?!

What I said is that I never heard that there was categories like "winter tyres" and "snow tyres".

From what I know there are summer tyres, all season tyres and winter tyres.
Maybe some of the winter tyres are better on snow than the other.
Maybe some of them are designed mostly to drive on wet and muddy surfaced while cold, while others are designed more for the snow.

Anyway, I never heard about any specific snow tyres out there.

Matt Simis

Tabnabs wrote: »

Surely the wet test is the critical one?

Here's a quote from a Norwegian test

While Continental stops after 26.7 meters from 80 km/h on wet asphalt, using the non-studded winter it covered 42.6 meters. While Goodyear water plans only at 99,7 km/h, the car loses all traction at 61,9 km/h with the half-worn winter tires. Even the worst summer tires in the test appears to be excellent compared with this. If you value your life do not put out on the road with these tires in the summer. Buy instead new cheap summer tyres.

That sounds extremely alarmist. I have 4x premium summers on my AWD S8 and 4x used Winters on an Alfa 156 (and a mix on the BMW for good measure). I can make the Audi do a little crabwalk in heavy downpours if I just keep pushing it on. The Alfa, while obviously not being pushed as hard, hasnt had any issues at all when I suspected it might (roads are quite bad).

Infact, I replaced a set of (new) cheap summers with it and the Winters were vastly better in all temps and conditions, so I would very much disagree with their conclusion (or tests were done in very high temps).


While I would agree there is no benefit and some detriment to using Winters in summer time, I wouldnt go as far as the Norwegian test. Afaik, "Nordic" focused Winter tyres themselves are not the same as the Central Europe Winters that are offered here anyway, the Nordic ones are more extreme (and therefore less tolerant of high temp).

the culture of deference

CiniO wrote: »

If you put 2 winter tyres on the front, and 2 summer tyres on the back, almost every time your go on the corner, your rear will skid.
If you don't believe me just try it.
I know what I'm saying as I was driving with such setup.

If rear of your car skids, you need to counter-steer and use your accelerator appropriately. That need ten's or hundreds of hours of practice to be done perfectly.

+1

Last winter I could spin my car at will under 15mph by turning in too quickly. When your car snaps out it is very easy to counter steer to correct it, but it takes a lot of practise to avoid the brake and actually accelerate.

Put 4 winters on, I used the snow and mud ones, they came with 10mm of thread and run 55psi.

I also had a pair of snow socks, they disappeared off the car one night during a 6 mile crawl down the n4. I think the slush from the melted ice and snow was the culprit.

-Corkie-

OK my normal tyres are 235/45/R17. I have spare 17`` rims. If I put on a skinnier Winter tyre will that give me more traction???. If so whats the skinniest winter tyre I could put under a 2.0 Passat?? I really have to get the proper winter tyres because I am 300M above sea level where I live and the incline is about a mile long...

Big Nasty

-Corkie- wrote: »

OK my normal tyres are 235/45/R17. I have spare 17`` rims. If I put on a skinnier Winter tyre will that give me more traction???. If so whats the skinniest winter tyre I could put under a 2.0 Passat?? I really have to get the proper winter tyres because I am 300M above sea level where I live and the incline is about a mile long...

What with are the 17's?

-Corkie-

MCMLXXV wrote: »

What with are the 17's?

7.5``

Big Nasty

-Corkie- wrote: »

7.5``

You need to find a tyre size calculator online and enter your rim diameter and width. This will give you the optimum tyre size for the rim and you can safely go 10mm wider / skinnier on same. I would do it for you but I'm in the middle of something.

-Corkie-

MCMLXXV wrote: »

You need to find a tyre size calculator online and enter your rim diameter and width. This will give you the optimum tyre size for the rim and you can safely go 10mm wider / skinnier on same. I would do it for you but I'm in the middle of something.

No bother, Cheers.:)