Cost of sunroom

richieoflynn

Hello all,

We're considering building a sunroom at the back of our house. Approx. dimensions would be 4m sq. Our plan is for double glazing the whole way around with box steel supports and dwarf walls. Also want to keep the ceiling open so we can put in 2 velux windows, one on each pitch to let as much light in as possible. Roof would be done with the same finish as the house which is that Tegral slate that looks a bit artificial, not sure what it's called to be honest.

We already have a set of double doors leading out onto a deck. The deck is being removed and this is where the sunroom will go so there's an opening there already. I'm getting a few quotes just to see if we can afford it (probably not) but staying positive none the less

I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible, only because I don't have 15k sitting in the bank looking for a new home. I'm handy enough with the donkey work and have a couple of friends who are handy with mini-diggers (foundation) and welding (steelwork for between windows). Have another contact for windows and doors bought from a place that closed down so a lot will depend on what windows he gets during the week. The sunroom would be made to fit the windows if you know what I mean.

Can anyone give me advice on what to do, what not to do and what jobs are best left to the professionals. I also had the idea of doing it over a period of a few months i.e. do the foundations up to finished floor, next month do the steel work / blockwork, bang in the windows and then get the roof on. I can be doing the inside in my own time, no serious panic with that.

Thanks !

macadam

just after taking down a sunroom could not heat it for 8 months of the year a complete waste of time and money in this country, dont know how we stuck it for 12 years..

richieoflynn

macadam wrote: »

just after taking down a sunroom could not heat it for 8 months of the year a complete waste of time and money in this country, dont know how we stuck it for 12 years..

Was gonna bang in 2 rads and a stove ! Are your windows for sale

macadam

Took it down on the friday, saved the ring beam, the sills and the windows and double doors, sold the windows and doors on the saturday.
I had 2 rads in it, once october came we couldnt sit in it fully insulated the works too much glass, glad to see it down and new extension almost built.

martinn123

Richie, sounds like macadam had a poorly built Conservatory, possibly with Polycarbonate, or non insulated glass in the roof, so not a comparison with what you are planning, a solid roof.

Remember the weight of the roof, timbers, insulation plasterboards, and tiles must be carried on the steel, and down into the foundations. No weight to be carried on the windows. So depending on the dimensions insure each span, can carry the weight, you may have to put in a vertical support between some of the windows.

I would take advice on this to be honest, as if its not done correct, you will have a big problem

Next insulate everywhere, DPC and insulation in the floor, insulate the walls, and plenty in the roof space, that way the heat you generate by the rads will not be wasted.

Insure the glass in the windows, doors etc, is the best you can afford, buying old second hand windows will get you rubbish glass, go for the lowest U value you can get.

Finally when completed you should have a Cert of compliance with Building Reg's, in case you sell the house in the future, so again look for advice here before you go too far.

Hope this helps

Gulliver

We have a west facing sun room with a glass roof and were getting 16-19 degrees on a bright day and 9-14 degrees during the big freeze. Admittedly, as building is ongoing, we don't spend more than 20 mins out there, so when we move in it might be a different story. I was so sure that it was going to be a cold trap that I specified external doors between it and the house interior.

OP hope you saved your decking and are putting it outside new sun room. I'd get a professional to do the lead flashing where it joins the house. Also I was going to go down the DIY route and found that it would have been almost as cheap to get a lintel manufacturer (don't know if I can mention them) to make the supports as it would have been to buy and weld steel.

In the end we costed it, using mostly DIY labour and there was €1200 in the difference between an all glass/dwarf wall type with slate/velux roof, (glass and door were new, though)
vs
professional all glass/full height with tinted glass roof (which is what we wanted in the first place)
So we went with the professional one as there really wasn't that much (considering the cost of a build) in it to have it exactly as we imagined.

macadam

martinn123 wrote: »

Richie, sounds like macadam had a poorly built Conservatory, possibly with Polycarbonate, or non insulated glass in the roof, so not a comparison with what you are planning, a solid roof.

Remember the weight of the roof, timbers, insulation plasterboards, and tiles must be carried on the steel, and down into the foundations. No weight to be carried on the windows. So depending on the dimensions insure each span, can carry the weight, you may have to put in a vertical support between some of the windows.

I would take advice on this to be honest, as if its not done correct, you will have a big problem

Next insulate everywhere, DPC and insulation in the floor, insulate the walls, and plenty in the roof space, that way the heat you generate by the rads will not be wasted.

Insure the glass in the windows, doors etc, is the best you can afford, buying old second hand windows will get you rubbish glass, go for the lowest U value you can get.

Finally when completed you should have a Cert of compliance with Building Reg's, in case you sell the house in the future, so again look for advice here before you go too far.

Hope this helps

Martin, there was nothing wrong with my build, it had a solid roof that had 8 rolls of insulation, and 100mm in the floor, the walls also had 50mm of insulation when built and I also had the cavity pumped 2 years ago to try and help but to no avail.
It seems strange when people with these sunrooms/conservatories have to put in a stove to heat them.
Mine was 170sq ft was double glazed and it would roast you when the weather got up over 20deg but below 6deg you could not sit comfortably in it with.

martinn123

macadam wrote: »

Martin, there was nothing wrong with my build, it had a solid roof that had 8 rolls of insulation, and 100mm in the floor, the walls also had 50mm of insulation when built and I also had the cavity pumped 2 years ago to try and help but to no avail.
It seems strange when people with these sunrooms/conservatories have to put in a stove to heat them.
Mine was 170sq ft was double glazed and it would roast you when the weather got up over 20deg but below 6deg you could not sit comfortably in it with.

Hi macadam, I misunderstood your post, and assumed it was a glazed roof.

If it was 12 yrs old sounds like a major problem was with the glazing. At that time what was used was standard double glazed units, with a U value of 2.9 or worse. Now I use Soft coat, Argon filled Low E units which achieve a U value of 1.1, which is significant in a room with a lot of glazing.

If the rest of the build was as well insulated as you describe, could not be anything else.

You have now replaced it, how does the new room differ, in terms of the amount of glass, insulation etc.

In relation to overheating, plenty of ventilation helps, to circulate the warm air, and a roof vent/velux to clear out the rising warm air.

galwaytt

richieoflynn wrote: »

I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible, only because I don't have 15k sitting in the bank looking for a new home.

Tbh, if cheap is king, then don't even start, or you'll end up copying macadam, down the line.

There is no shortcut to a good build, simple as.

Quite apart from the good windows, and ventilation for hot days (although deep soffitt's can help here, as a brise-soleil), the floors should be beefed up well. IMHO, minimum 150, and preferably 200mm.

It's what I did in my old house, and it's the nicest room in the place.

macadam

martinn123 wrote: »

Hi macadam, I misunderstood your post, and assumed it was a glazed roof.

If it was 12 yrs old sounds like a major problem was with the glazing. At that time what was used was standard double glazed units, with a U value of 2.9 or worse. Now I use Soft coat, Argon filled Low E units which achieve a U value of 1.1, which is significant in a room with a lot of glazing.

If the rest of the build was as well insulated as you describe, could not be anything else.

You have now replaced it, how does the new room differ, in terms of the amount of glass, insulation etc.

In relation to overheating, plenty of ventilation helps, to circulate the warm air, and a roof vent/velux to clear out the rising warm air.

New build is just built and timber on the roof , as for windows i put in a bay window double doors and 3 small long windows at the rear which also has a vaulted ceiling, I am installing a 9kw solid fuel stove and the outside is built with Kilkenny sandstone, I have stripped the dry dash off as well which was also in fashion 12 yrs ago, all walls will be pumped insulation floor has 125mm and the walls and roof will also be done with kingspan insulation.

richieoflynn

Well lads, I've had some off the ball quotes for the sunroom. I'll put them up when I get a chance but the last guy that I spoke to recommended this. By the way, he said he's built approx 150 sunrooms in the last 6 years.

Build your cavity walls up to whatever height and instead of putting in concrete window sills where the windows end up in between the cavities, use pvc window sills and sit the windows on the outside cavity. He would then bring his steel tube up from the outside course rather than from floor level inside the cavity wall. He makes up a steel plate that sits on top of the cavity wall to join them and the steel tube is welded on the outside. I asked him about concrete window sills and he said that in the years he's been doing them, he's never used concrete sills and will never ! Maybe there's more than 1 way to do the job but does this sound ok to you fellas ? To me it sounds reasonable, can't see any issues. He also says it cuts down on thermal bridging like what you'd have where the concrete sills are bridging the 2 courses the whole way around.

BryanF

richieoflynn wrote: »

Well lads, I've had some off the ball quotes for the sunroom. I'll put them up when I get a chance but the last guy that I spoke to recommended this. By the way, he said he's built approx 150 sunrooms in the last 6 years.

Build your cavity walls up to whatever height and instead of putting in concrete window sills where the windows end up in between the cavities, use pvc window sills and sit the windows on the outside cavity. He would then bring his steel tube up from the outside course rather than from floor level inside the cavity wall. He makes up a steel plate that sits on top of the cavity wall to join them and the steel tube is welded on the outside. I asked him about concrete window sills and he said that in the years he's been doing them, he's never used concrete sills and will never ! Maybe there's more than 1 way to do the job but does this sound ok to you fellas ? To me it sounds reasonable, can't see any issues. He also says it cuts down on thermal bridging like what you'd have where the concrete sills are bridging the 2 courses the whole way around.

sounds like he's full of sh1te to me, his thermal bridge solution seems like BS for a start..

Why not ask to view and meet one of his 150 clients, preferable from 6 years ago. particularly ask them how many months they use the space for..

IMHO you've starting this all wrong: 2 rads & a stove, looking for second hand windows and no specification & drawings for the builder!

best of luck.. but I'm with galwaytt on this one "if cheap is king, then don't even start"

1chippy

bryan f and galway are both right . pvc cills are fast and easy to fit personally i think they look mean . sounds like a sales spiel. any good sunroom properly built will bring the poles down onto steel plates and in corporate them into the windows. the only way you will have termal bridging is if you get some chancer who doesnt know what hes at. pay peanuts and all that. trying to bodge in windows that were made for something else very rarely works.
in what ive seen a lot of the home built and mates rates extensions end up costing more in the long run.
I was brought up to look at one last friday pretty much going to cost the client double now to get the whole lot fixed.

martinn123

Hi Richie,not sure why you are bothering to get quotes

richieoflynn wrote:

I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible, only because I don't have 15k sitting in the bank looking for a new home. I'm handy enough with the donkey work and have a couple of friends who are handy with mini-diggers (foundation) and welding (steelwork for between windows). Have another contact for windows and doors bought from a place that closed down so a lot will depend on what windows he gets during the week. The sunroom would be made to fit the windows if you know what I mean.

If you have the windows, mates, etc................For structural ideas, just continue to post here, plenty of help available...................Out of interest, did any of the quotes come in under the 15K, you don't have.

richieoflynn

Thanks for all the replies lads. I'll keep this to the point if I can. Decided to go with new windows and door. So far this is what I have for quotes.

Builder # 1 : Foundation up to floor level €5,000, steelwork supply and fitted €2,000, roof €5,000, block laying for walls etc. €2,000.
Builder # 2 : Foundation up to floor level €2,000 and €3,000 for the roof.
Builder # 3 : Waiting for a price.

Windows & doors :
Supplier # 1 : Approx. €5,000 - he couldn't be bothered to work it out properly on the day !
Supplier # 2 : €3,200
Supplier # 3 : €3,800
Supplier # 4 : €2,000

So, when I say I'm trying to do this cheaply, I don't mean I won't spend the money where I need to. What I'm saying is if builder # 1 wants €3,000 more than builder # 2 for the privilage of pouring concrete into a hole then he's dreaming. Same as supplier # 1 at €5,000 v's the others when they're all supplying A rated windows and the middle 2 are very reputable companies, making windows and doors for a long time using Carey's glass (which I believe is very good). Also supplier 1 are no longer making their own windows and doors, just buying them in themselves.

I'll probably go with the concrete cills, I suppose they look nicer and make the job look better overall.

Galwaytt : point noted on the amount of floor insulation, I'll certainly be doing that.
BryanF : Yes, he could indeed be full of ****e and I would like to talk to some of his customers from back over the years. What I'm pointing out here is that there's huge variations in prices so I need to ask questions as to why. Why do you think 2 rads and a stove are a bad idea ???

Oh and last quote I got from a guy who spends most of his time on the dole was an over the phone guess at anywhere between €15,000 - €25,000

Called into another shop today, in business 25 years and the guy said he'd call out and have a look at the site and give me recommendations and prices.

Seeing as some of you are very honest and will tell me if I'm being a dickhead, I have another question about the roof. I want to keep it open up to the rafters so would it be a good idea to insulate between the joists and ceiling AND also use insulated plasterboard slabs on the ceiling itself ?

Thanks again !

BryanF

richieoflynn wrote: »

BryanF : Yes, he could indeed be full of ****e and I would like to talk to some of his customers from back over the years. What I'm pointing out here is that there's huge variations in prices so I need to ask questions as to why. Why do you think 2 rads and a stove are a bad idea ???

why the huge variation: honestly do a drawing and spec, then you can actually compare costs. forget the term 'A' rated windows it doesnt mean much imho, put in a performance spec with U-values instead.

the reason for my 2 rads and stove comment is: its a sunroom your building? so if your putting in 2 rads and a stove then build an actual room. otherwise, especially as this appears to be a 'just to Building regs' (if even) then it'll piss out the heat and cost you a fortune.

re roof: insulate it to the max, between and below rafters.

condra

any update on this?

I’d be very interested to know how you got on.

richieoflynn

condra wrote: »

any update on this?

I’d be very interested to know how you got on.

Never did it in the end. We've decided to wait a few years and do a bigger extension if possible :-)

macadam

richieoflynn wrote: »

Never did it in the end. We've decided to wait a few years and do a bigger extension if possible :-)

Wise move, good luck with it, build it now if ye can when labour is cheap and good men are available.