This government is amazing!

CommuterIE

It truly is... we are on the road to bankruptcy just like Greece... they know it, we know it... yet big man kenny promises no income tax increase and no social welfare decrease in the next budget....

Some man isn't he? I would also like to say that labour isn't doing a f*cking thing in this government.... you want to know why??

The real reason this government is driving the country into the ground is quite simple... in 24 months time when we have the same situation as the Greeks, the government will say: "Well it's not us, it's the IMF, ECB etc that are forcing these hits on you, but it's not us"

Gotta love politicians and power ey I would also add, stfu about the interest rate and look at the bigger picture! This country has an €18 billion euro gap per year in what it takes in in taxes to what goes out... THIS IS THE REAL STORY... not an interest rate change that will save us a meagre €140 million euro a year, SMALL CHANGE COMPARED TO OUR REAL PROBLEM!!!! And the government quite enjoy all of the attention given to it as it dtracts from the main issue

Patser

No income tax increase or social welfare reduction because we're going to get Property Taxes and Water Charges, and Enda isn't stupid and doesn't want to risk all out rebellion. They'll have enough trouble trying to get these 2 charges in without revolt, than to add extra suffering on.

These charges are agreed with the ECB/IMF as part of our austerity and will raise tax intake, while Enda can say 'I didn't touch income tax or the dole, so I kept my word'

dan_d

Why do you think we'll be in the same situation as the Greeks in the next 24 months?

I'm not disagreeing about the deficit. But why do you think we'll have the same situation?

Curious.

CommuterIE

Patser wrote: »

No income tax increase or social welfare reduction because we're going to get Property Taxes and Water Charges, and Enda isn't stupid and doesn't want to risk all out rebellion. They'll have enough trouble trying to get these 2 charges in without revolt, than to add extra suffering on.

These charges are agreed with the ECB/IMF as part of our austerity and will raise tax intake, while Enda can say 'I didn't touch income tax or the dole, so I kept my word'

This will not be enough to keep this country afloat, and anyone naive enough to think so needs their head examined... extreme austerity is required, and that most likely won't save us from a Greek scenario, this country is screwed, the sooner default is declared the better because we simply cannot pay our debts

RMD

This is what I hate about Irish politicians, not a single pair of balls on any of them, shower of people pleasing gobshítes.

Keep your opinion polls high Enda that's great, don't worry about economically ruining the country anymore than it already is.

AntiRip

There might not be tax increases our social welfare cuts but there will be indirect cuts e.g. tax credits reduced, tax band adjustments, other social welfare cuts such as child benefit maybe, rent allowances and other allowances as well as rates, water and household charges.

There is another three years of this so don't worry, we'll be visiting the soup kitchens and bread line yet ;-)

Nijmegen

They won't raise income tax, but your income tax bill will magically increase.

Saying you won't increase tax means you won't increase the headline rate.

But you can lower the level at which your income begins getting taxed.

Talk, double talk, politico talk... I wonder if those tea ads will ever have Bertie in them drinking the "Waffle waffle waffle waffle" blend?

end a eknny

you wil find that those in employment wil face household charges and more stealth taxes while the people on welfare will be spared the hardship. think its time to take early retirement

AntiRip

end a eknny wrote: »

you wil find that those in employment wil face household charges and more stealth taxes while the people on welfare will be spared the hardship. think its time to take early retirement

Can't say that for sure yet. Maybe they won't cut social welfare but household charges for everyone that owns a house no matter if you're employed or not. E200 or whatever the charge out of e9000 a year on social welfare. Who knows.

Last year it was private sector versus public sector, this year its employment against unemployment :-)
I wonder what will it be next year

CommuterIE

Well Social Welfare needs to be slashed, it's coming down the road probably by the IMF, but it will be slashed by over 25% I'd say... it has to be, we can hardly afford to be the 2nd most generous nation in Europe in this regard, it will save us billions... child benefit will most likely be abolished also... read my words here: IF IRELAND DOESN'T MAKE THESE DECISIONS THE IMF WILL

doolox

...will be the start. Also expect more service charges, medical charges etc.

The govt will not touch PAYE because it destroys jobs and job creation. Expect University fees to go up rapidly, also means test income limits for a raft of benefits could shrink. Expect a lot more inspections of Disability and unemployment assistance claims, more and more intrusive demands to report in and sign on at odd and unpredictable times and more frequently to catch out workers in the "shadow" economy.

Since they have reduced VAT on services the govt might increase or impose VAT on childrens clothes and other non-discretionary spend items. They could allow schools to radically increase the "voluntary" contribution payable for each child in school. A car parking tax or levy could be introduced as could congestion charges in the few cities in Ireland with adequate public transport, using the govts definition of "adequate". A levy could be placed on workplaces which supply free car-parking to their workers.

An extra tax could be placed on cigarettes etc and extended to what the government regards as "unhealthy" foods, takeaways etc, anything they can say contributes to health issues such as diabetes and obesity etc. They may even introduce health insurance loadings on people they judge to be living unhealthy lives, subjecting everyone to a medical test to assess the loading.

NCT, car tax etc are ripe areas for revenue mining.

Permits for development, extensions etc could all be increased.

Fire inspections and permits, essential for night-club and leisure centre operations could all be increased as could PSV and Commercial vehicle tests and licenses, putting up the costs of all these items to the users.

What about recycling levies, payable on a lot of electrical and other items such as tyres etc? These could be increased until the pips squeek....

A tax could be imposed on text messaging.

A tax could be imposed on internet usage and connections..........

AntiRip

doolox wrote: »

...will be the start. Also expect more service charges, medical charges etc.

The govt will not touch PAYE because it destroys jobs and job creation. Expect University fees to go up rapidly, also means test income limits for a raft of benefits could shrink. Expect a lot more inspections of Disability and unemployment assistance claims, more and more intrusive demands to report in and sign on at odd and unpredictable times and more frequently to catch out workers in the "shadow" economy.

Since they have reduced VAT on services the govt might increase or impose VAT on childrens clothes and other non-discretionary spend items. They could allow schools to radically increase the "voluntary" contribution payable for each child in school. A car parking tax or levy could be introduced as could congestion charges in the few cities in Ireland with adequate public transport, using the govts definition of "adequate". A levy could be placed on workplaces which supply free car-parking to their workers.

An extra tax could be placed on cigarettes etc and extended to what the government regards as "unhealthy" foods, takeaways etc, anything they can say contributes to health issues such as diabetes and obesity etc. They may even introduce health insurance loadings on people they judge to be living unhealthy lives, subjecting everyone to a medical test to assess the loading.

NCT, car tax etc are ripe areas for revenue mining.

Permits for development, extensions etc could all be increased.

Fire inspections and permits, essential for night-club and leisure centre operations could all be increased as could PSV and Commercial vehicle tests and licenses, putting up the costs of all these items to the users.

What about recycling levies, payable on a lot of electrical and other items such as tyres etc? These could be increased until the pips squeek....

A tax could be imposed on text messaging.

A tax could be imposed on internet usage and connections..........

Or we can hand over all our cash and live on grass

But I know what you're saying, they are plenty of areas to collect without touching income tax

Dannyboy83

CommuterIE wrote: »

IF IRELAND DOESN'T MAKE THESE DECISIONS THE IMF WILL

Unfortunately not.
They should have done this last November.
It's becoming evident tho, that as long as the Irish government reaches it's financial targets, the IMF/ECB are not going to get involved (the how doesn't matter to them).

The government could introduce a tax on EU flags and the ECB will still not get invovled, as long as the numbers are met.

stevenmu

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's becoming evident tho, that as long as the Irish government reaches it's financial targets, the IMF/ECB are not going to get involved (the how doesn't matter to them).

And why should it? They're financial institutions, all they concerned with is finances and the economy, and more specifically our ability to repay the loans they have given us. The absolute last thing they want to do is start getting involved in the political minutia. They agreed to loan us money on the condition that we meet certain financial targets, to ensure that we can pay them back, and that's really all that they care about.

NIMAN

Agree with a small point Doolox made re: car tax.

They incentivised us to drive mroe economical and eco-friendly cars by giving us road tax for €104 or €156 per year, but that murders revenue raised.

I can see these increasing shortly.

sdiff

I wonder if the FG/labour budget will have a different style to the DELUDED Fianna FAIL IMF Anglo one

Dannyboy83

stevenmu wrote: »

And why should it? They're financial institutions, all they concerned with is finances and the economy, and more specifically our ability to repay the loans they have given us. The absolute last thing they want to do is start getting involved in the political minutia.

I completely disagree.
But it doesn't matter anyway, because the plan is set in stone now.

Dob74

CommuterIE wrote: »

It truly is... we are on the road to bankruptcy just like Greece... they know it, we know it... yet big man kenny promises no income tax increase and no social welfare decrease in the next budget....

Some man isn't he? I would also like to say that labour isn't doing a f*cking thing in this government.... you want to know why??

The real reason this government is driving the country into the ground is quite simple... in 24 months time when we have the same situation as the Greeks, the government will say: "Well it's not us, it's the IMF, ECB etc that are forcing these hits on you, but it's not us"

Gotta love politicians and power ey I would also add, stfu about the interest rate and look at the bigger picture! This country has an €18 billion euro gap per year in what it takes in in taxes to what goes out... THIS IS THE REAL STORY... not an interest rate change that will save us a meagre €140 million euro a year, SMALL CHANGE COMPARED TO OUR REAL PROBLEM!!!! And the government quite enjoy all of the attention given to it as it dtracts from the main issue

So you want the gov to cause deflation?
Cutting wages and the dole will hit consumers. The 18 billion can not be cut right away but will take 5 or 6 years.
The reason the IMF, ECB is hear is because or poorly paid banking sector.
Who boorrowed billions so there friends could buy land of other.

Drumpot

Its pathetic that the whole "get interest rate cut" is still getting any media attention.

Just shows how stupid our media really is. A rate cut is just a PR stunt by a misguided FG/Lab government that has shown itself to be better at telling us what they wont do or even what they might do (but then they come out and say they wont!).

Fulton Crown

RMD wrote: »

This is what I hate about Irish politicians, not a single pair of balls on any of them, shower of people pleasing gobshítes.

Keep your opinion polls high Enda that's great, don't worry about economically ruining the country anymore than it already is.

hey Bud ...give the man a break and cut some slack,,,guy is in the job a wet week end you want miracles.

Enda knows that raising income tax is no good ...would further depress demand / increase dependance on the welfare state / reduce vat take etc.

The Black economy is booming ////there is 5 billion to be got there / tradesmen small builders etc are doing deals for cash.

We are buying time here waiting for global economic uplift ...panic measures are not what is needed.

Cleaning up the mess from the shysters in the previous government and the incompetent regulators and snout in the trough banking execs and board cronys.

This takes time Buddy..........

Fulton Crown

Drumpot wrote: »

Its pathetic that the whole "get interest rate cut" is still getting any media attention.

Just shows how stupid our media really is. A rate cut is just a PR stunt by a misguided FG/Lab government that has shown itself to be better at telling us what they wont do or even what they might do (but then they come out and say they wont!).

Media not doing too bad pal.....shining a light in places that have been dark for a long time.

Changing public opinion....goons like Fitzpatrick and Fingers will find it more difficult to act like Czars...no doubt some will try.

They outed the bufoon O'Donoghue for his profligrate expenses...and the Healy-raes for their alledged misuse of state property.

Gobshoits like Lowry and healy-rae will find it more difficult to be elected as the local heros when the backwoods people who elect them finally begin to see sense.

media can do better ...sure ...but they have upped their game ....

Nijmegen

The media have largely, in my opinion, gone after easy targets that are presented to them by other diggers. RTE Prime Time would perhaps be a notable exception, though it always has been.

They're also easily mislead or do not dig into facts and figures presented to them beyond face value, in my humble experience.

PARKHEAD67

CommuterIE wrote: »

It truly is... we are on the road to bankruptcy just like Greece... they know it, we know it... yet big man kenny promises no income tax increase and no social welfare decrease in the next budget....

Some man isn't he? I would also like to say that labour isn't doing a f*cking thing in this government.... you want to know why??

The real reason this government is driving the country into the ground is quite simple... in 24 months time when we have the same situation as the Greeks, the government will say: "Well it's not us, it's the IMF, ECB etc that are forcing these hits on you, but it's not us"

Gotta love politicians and power ey I would also add, stfu about the interest rate and look at the bigger picture! This country has an €18 billion euro gap per year in what it takes in in taxes to what goes out... THIS IS THE REAL STORY... not an interest rate change that will save us a meagre €140 million euro a year, SMALL CHANGE COMPARED TO OUR REAL PROBLEM!!!! And the government quite enjoy all of the attention given to it as it dtracts from the main issue

When you live in a country where people with kids can earn more on benefits than going to work, you know something is wrong.I dont think people have grasped this yet.You have a situation where scroungers will sit on their hole,have 5 or 6 kids for the benefits and laugh at the joe soap PAYE worker who pays for their cans of Linden Village.This country is a JOKE. A SICK JOKE!!

dublincelt

CommuterIE wrote: »

It truly is... we are on the road to bankruptcy just like Greece... they know it, we know it... yet big man kenny promises no income tax increase and no social welfare decrease in the next budget....

Some man isn't he? I would also like to say that labour isn't doing a f*cking thing in this government.... you want to know why??

The real reason this government is driving the country into the ground is quite simple... in 24 months time when we have the same situation as the Greeks, the government will say: "Well it's not us, it's the IMF, ECB etc that are forcing these hits on you, but it's not us"

Gotta love politicians and power ey I would also add, stfu about the interest rate and look at the bigger picture! This country has an €18 billion euro gap per year in what it takes in in taxes to what goes out... THIS IS THE REAL STORY... not an interest rate change that will save us a meagre €140 million euro a year, SMALL CHANGE COMPARED TO OUR REAL PROBLEM!!!! And the government quite enjoy all of the attention given to it as it dtracts from the main issue

A post such as this merely demonstrates the fact once again that Bertie and his ilk should be behind bars! I am no friend of FG or labour, however it is FF and their "hangers on" that have us in this mess. To see the likes of Sean Dunne and that bearded prick Johnny Ronan carry on happy in the knowledge that us poor arseholes will be bailing them out kills me.

To Mr Linehan, now deceased. We did not "all party". Just a select few, that now are untouchable somehow

PARKHEAD67

To Mr Linehan, now deceased. We did not "all party". Just a select few, that now are untouchable somehow [/QUOTE]
Exactly.I didnt merc it up in the tiger days.And I aint mercing it up now.Same old.The select few are getting away scot-free though.

anymore

CommuterIE wrote: »

It truly is... we are on the road to bankruptcy just like Greece... they know it, we know it... yet big man kenny promises no income tax increase and no social welfare decrease in the next budget....

Some man isn't he? I would also like to say that labour isn't doing a f*cking thing in this government.... you want to know why??

The real reason this government is driving the country into the ground is quite simple... in 24 months time when we have the same situation as the Greeks, the government will say: "Well it's not us, it's the IMF, ECB etc that are forcing these hits on you, but it's not us"

Gotta love politicians and power ey I would also add, stfu about the interest rate and look at the bigger picture! This country has an €18 billion euro gap per year in what it takes in in taxes to what goes out... THIS IS THE REAL STORY... not an interest rate change that will save us a meagre €140 million euro a year, SMALL CHANGE COMPARED TO OUR REAL PROBLEM!!!! And the government quite enjoy all of the attention given to it as it dtracts from the main issue

You must be wrong about us being bankrupt !
'We' still give millions each year to GAA County players for, well followling their hobby, a senior executive in FAS is allowed to take 3 years leave of absence to head up the GAA with the GAA 'paying his € 150,000 annual salary - given that the taxpayer gives millions each year to GAA, it seems fair to say the taxpayer is really paying this. And of course millions more are given to fund the favourite sport of tax exile multimillionaires, horseracing. Not to mention funding greyhound racing. And of course artists and writers are allowed to earn € 100,000 each year without paying any tax. And doubless there are umpteen other examples.
So obivously, if we can afford to throw all this money down so many different drains, we cant be broke can we ? I mean that wouldnt make sense would it .......

Drumpot

dublincelt wrote: »

A post such as this merely demonstrates the fact once again that Bertie and his ilk should be behind bars! I am no friend of FG or labour, however it is FF and their "hangers on" that have us in this mess. To see the likes of Sean Dunne and that bearded prick Johnny Ronan carry on happy in the knowledge that us poor arseholes will be bailing them out kills me.

To Mr Linehan, now deceased. We did not "all party". Just a select few, that now are untouchable somehow

Just stop it right there. .

If people keep allowing Lab/FG off with the whole "it was all FFs fault", they will be just as unaccountable for whatever actions they take during their tenure as FF were during theirs!

Seriously, everybody knows that FF got us into this mess, we dont need to keep hearing it. But since March, every decision made going forward is on the heads of Lab/FG, even if some or most of their decisions are a result of the mess we are in. If they didnt want the job or to have to make tough decisions, they shouldnt of run for office.

I am sick and tired of people excusing bad/weak decisions by this government simply because of our previous one. If people really do want us to end up with the same kind of Sh*t that we had the last time then just continue on forgiving or excusing anything this government does and blame it all on FF.

Scofflaw

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Unfortunately not.
They should have done this last November.
It's becoming evident tho, that as long as the Irish government reaches it's financial targets, the IMF/ECB are not going to get involved (the how doesn't matter to them).

The government could introduce a tax on EU flags and the ECB will still not get invovled, as long as the numbers are met.

Is that not the right way to do things, though? We have to operate within a certain framework, but we're not looking to have the IMF or ECB dictate policy, surely?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Fulton Crown

Drumpot wrote: »

I am sick and tired of people excusing bad/weak decisions by this government simply because of our previous one. .

What bad / weak decision are you referring to pal.......lt us know so that we can judge.

Othrwise you may be just a bhladderer........

Drumpot

Fulton Crown wrote: »

What bad / weak decision are you referring to pal.......lt us know so that we can judge.

Othrwise you may be just a bhladderer........

How about the ill conceived Pensions levy ? Im not even going through why this was such an awful idea, if you dont know already Im not explaining it to you!

What about Ministers and politicians constantly backtracking ? We were told we would have clarity and be kept educated on what decisions are being made, but that hasnt happened thus far.

What about their constant avoidance of properly tackling inneficiencies and the obvious pink elephant that is a bloated/over paid Public service ?

We where told we would get a new dawn in politics, but cronyism doesnt seem to be that differant with family members getting cushdy jobs with their elected friends.

What about their continuing reliance on populist decisions/actions to try and take the focus off the real problems ? eg - Judges pay by referendum (there was so many easier ways they could of dealt with this but no, we had to have the smoking gun pr way!).

That aside, your post wreaks of the kind of FG tactics that we have had to become accustomed to, almost Public Service Union like. Basically, take the focus off the main point at hand so that you dont have to engage in meaningful debate in what is the most important aspect of the debate.

This government should be judged on what decisions they make, not on what decisions they made because of something FF did. They canvased and took the jobs knowing they were going into a sh*tstorm. People used to complain about the lack of personal resonsibility shown by FF, lets not let our existing government get away with the same trait simply because they are not FF!

Fulton Crown

Drumpot wrote: »

How about the ill conceived Pensions levy ? Im not even going through why this was such an awful idea, if you dont know already Im not explaining it to you!

What about Ministers and politicians constantly backtracking ? We were told we would have clarity and be kept educated on what decisions are being made, but that hasnt happened thus far.

What about their constant avoidance of properly tackling inneficiencies and the obvious pink elephant that is a bloated/over paid Public service ?

We where told we would get a new dawn in politics, but cronyism doesnt seem to be that differant with family members getting cushdy jobs with their elected friends.

What about their continuing reliance on populist decisions/actions to try and take the focus off the real problems ? eg - Judges pay by referendum (there was so many easier ways they could of dealt with this but no, we had to have the smoking gun pr way!).

That aside, your post wreaks of the kind of FG tactics that we have had to become accustomed to, almost Public Service Union like. Basically, take the focus off the main point at hand so that you dont have to engage in meaningful debate in what is the most important aspect of the debate.

This government should be judged on what decisions they make, not on what decisions they made because of something FF did. They canvased and took the jobs knowing they were going into a sh*tstorm. People used to complain about the lack of personal resonsibility shown by FF, lets not let our existing government get away with the same trait simply because they are not FF!

I might agree with you on the pensions levy...desperate measures etc.

Ministers backtracking ? Who has backtracked ? Enlighten us please.

Their constant avoidance of tackling the inefficiencies in the public service ?
How long have they been in office pal...get real....they have to get up to speed with their briefs for God's sake ...form opinions .....think long term.

Cronyism...sure there have been a few own goals here ...but relatively few...FG is a broad church and a few greedy bastards may yet have to get the message....but relatively few.

Have you any examples of cronyism.....?

Judges pay is a thorny issue ...fraught with legal and constitutional minefields saying there is a simple way to resolve it is ...well ..simplistic.

I agree it is an area that should be tackled.

My post "reeks (note spelling pal) of FG tactics"

Not with you on this one buddy...I'm sure it's my fault.

Yes there should be personal responsibility ,,,from Govt AND the faceless beurocrats behind the scenes.

Don't forget Jim Reilly sacked the Board of HSE and Leo V took out that gombeen Healy-rae

Your post lacks any solid evidence to back up your anti govt rant....have some patience Buddy

Scofflaw

Can posters - particularly Fulton Crown - drop the "pal...buddy" routine. In a bar, it would be a sign that the bouncers would soon be chucking you out, and it means largely the same here.

moderately,
Scofflaw

DB21

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ministers backtracking ? Who has backtracked ? Enlighten us please.

I can point you in the direction of Minister Quinn, of my now former party. He swore up and down, and signed an agreement with the USI that he wouldn't even consider re-introducing fees for University. The spineless git last week reneged on said agreement and vow, and as such has cost his party a significant number of votes from the student population on his mission to return 3rd level education to "rich boy club" status.

Fulton Crown

DB21 wrote: »

I can point you in the direction of Minister Quinn, of my now former party. He swore up and down, and signed an agreement with the USI that he wouldn't even consider re-introducing fees for University. The spineless git last week reneged on said agreement and vow, and as such has cost his party a significant number of votes from the student population on his mission to return 3rd level education to "rich boy club" status.

Hardly "rich boy club" now.

Do parents not save for their kids education any more ?

Is he not talking about introducing a student loan system...why should John Q Taxpayer pay to educate medics and lawyers and have them rip us off for the rest of their lives ?

Based on the behaviour of students during the various drinking binge weeks rag weeks money does not seem to be a problem ?

DB21

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Hardly "rich boy club" now.

Do parents not save for their kids education any more ?

Is he not talking about introducing a student loan system...why should John Q Taxpayer pay to educate medics and lawyers and have them rip us off for the rest of their lives ?

Based on the behaviour of students during the various drinking binge weeks rag weeks money does not seem to be a problem ?

The thing is, there is a serious misconception about students out there. Myself, and many other science students I know are hardly partying weekly. In fact, NUI Maynooth among other Universities and Colleges has done away with Rag Week.

What needs to be done with the grant system/fees is not either extreme. What is needed is a simple means test. That will stop the guys who's parents are still pulling in vast amounts of cash getting grants, and they would pay their way through the four years. That would also remove those who are time-wasting in 3rd level, as I doubt Mammy and Daddy would throw €5k a year down the drain.

Then, those from more modest backgrounds like myself, with a father who walked out on my family when I was 8, and a mother who recently retired due to injury would still be in receipt of a grant to aid them through college, provided it is spent wisely. Introduce a book-keeping system, in that you must present proof of grant expenditure at the end of the college year, and penalties will be paid for misuse of the grant. Thus removing those who spend their grant on alcohol, and aiding the case of those who have to use it to commute, and buy books that are €60 a pop.

I fully understand your position on doctors and lawyers ripping us off, as I also feel they do. This is a separate issue though, and I would love to fully address it in another topic, so as to not further derail this one on a few single issues.