semi wild outdoor cats

On Thursday evening I went to see two semi wild outdoor cats that Drogheda Animal Rescue wanted to rehome. I didn't want to bring them home right away, wanted to prepare the house better before, but was told that they're never catch them again, so I brought them straight home. They are both adult neutered toms, not aggressive but not tame. Blackie we lost immediately under the sofa and only had glimpses of since, but George walked out of his carrier, hopped up on the sofa and went to sleep. He is the bravest and most curious little cat I ever met. He meows an awful lot, I've stopped going down to see what he's meowing over, because I usually startle Blackie back under the sofa if I do. George has huge eyes, big ears, but is a very handsome cat, and clever! He's dying to get out of the room, not into the garden, but into the house. He will be trouble.

We are keeping them in with a litter tray, all their feed dishes and their outside kennel, in our sitting room. When they have become accustomed to me and my partner, that we feed them but don't touch them, and that the kennel is their house, they are being moved outside. They are outside cats anyway, being indoors must be scaring them. I still can't get over how well George has taken to it!

I just wanted to post this thread in case anyone has any advice, about the next two weeks, when it's going to be ok to let them out, whether we can expect to ever see them again once they're free.... but also wanted to post this to anyone who doesn't have the time for a house cat, pet cat, there are always these semi wild adults who require outdoor homes too. No it isn't cheap, they require enough gear to kit out a small bedroom, but they're in desperate need of homes - the two I have would have been put to sleep eventually, and it's so sad to think of when I see them walking around and meowing and tearing up my sitting room. They will be of little burden to me, all I have to do is feed them and worm them, they wont bother me and I wont bother them, but I have kept them from what would have been an inevitable death. In turn they keep the dreaded rats out of my garden.

I'm over the moon with my two little cats! They wont be my babies, because my baby is a ten year old green budgie called Marky who demands and commandeers my attention anyway, but I have already developed a soft spot for these two!

slashygoodness

Sounds like George might be more of an indoor + outdoor cat

We had 3 wild cats 3 female and 1 male 'staying' with us for about 10 years, eventually the male cat became an indoor/outdoor cat and loved getting pets! The females would come inside but never wanted to be petted..

The 2 we have now are WSPCA rescues and we kept them inside for 6 weeks, now they come and go during the day time but we always bring them in at night...

If you can get them to tolerate being handled it will make vet visits SO much easier..

Best of luck, they both sound adorable..

MaryK666

Hi Budgese, Congrats on the new additions to your little family. You seem to be doing really well with them so far and they'll be settled in before you know it. Just beware of letting them out too early. Having been used to outdoor life and being male, I'd personally keep them in for about 4 weeks to ensure that they were completely settled in their new home and used to you being their food supplier. It'd be a travesty if they went roaming their new domain and weren't sure about the location of their new home. We took in two ex-outdoor feral cats about two years ago. They had to become indoor cats as the male was FIV+ and we were concerned about how they would adjust to their new home and being kept indoors. We kept them to one room for the first week with their litter trays, food bowls, beds, toys and a scratching post and we would go and sit in the room reading for a few hours until they got used to seeing us around. Then we opened up the rest of the house to them and let them wander as they pleased, keeping our bedroom door closed at night when we were sleeping. Gradually after a few weeks they came to realise that we were no threat and became curious about us, coming to hang round while we were watching tv or eating and slowly accepted rubs and cuddles and taking treats from our hands. After about three weeks of roaming the house, the breakthrough came one evening while we were watching tv. They both jumped up on the sofa and climbed onto the OH's knee for cuddles. It snowballed after that and they moved into the bedroom to sleep with us. They are now total lap-cats who love their new home and all the adoration they get from their human servants. We got a cat fence for the garden so they can go out to play and chase birds and flies and laze about in the rare moments of sunshine. And they now have two new little friends that they adore and they all sleep curled up with us every night. Hopefully your two little boys will settle in quickly. George already seems to know he's landed firmly on his paws and hopefully, with a little time and a lot of love and spoiling, Blackie will follow.

doctor evil

Keep them in for six weeks it will take time for them to come round. Do not let out before the six weeks!

Cats if left alone will be cats and aloof but if time and effort are invested into them they can be so much more.

Zapperzy

If you get yourself a comfy cushion, a good book and a few slices of ham, sit down on the floor of the room they are in and settle yourself down, put some ham on the floor well away from you but when Blackie comes out do not move or even look at her. You can throw pieces of the ham on the floor and leave some pieces closer to you but do not call her or reach out to her, cats are curious and will eventually approach you when they becomes nosey enough and by the sounds of it these pair are not completely feral just nervous and scared.
Iv done this with kittens and it always works, I also get a long piece of string and play with them, they get so engrossed in the game they eventually forget they were scared of me in the first place, but again don't reach out to them or force them to spend time with you.

Thanks everyone! Blackie is now out from under the sofa, doesn't really react to anything, if I go too close to him (which I have to do while cleaning and feeding) he just slips away behind the sofa and waits till I leave. Otherwise he's not too bothered. George is dying to get out of the room and it's a challenge to keep him inside - we bought him some toys today since he upended everything in the room yesterday, he's settling in and getting adventurous. I accidentally touched the side of his head while I was feeding and he was being impatient - it did not go down well at all. I have no problem having cats who don't want to be touched, though. They can be bribed with food into their carriers (they currently sleep in them anyway) so getting them to the vet isn't impossible. We are using an oral suspension in their food to deflea and worm them. I'll keep treating them as I have been, and let them come round to being as tame or untame as they like. I'm not sure of their histories, no one really was, but to say that George was picked up after being hit by a car, was totally feral and used to bite, Blackie has never been nasty but has always been shy.

I do sit in the room with them, Blackie just sleeps and George sits a few feet away and stares. If this is as good as it'll get then that's ok by me!

rabbit.84

any pics of them? They sound nice. We have 5 semi wild cats at our house. all related females (all neutered) only one will allow us to touch it after 6years of being feed daily by us. And three of them have been around us since they were born. There nice to have around the place anyway

I'll get a nice pic of them together later when they've settled down, they're chasing toys around at the moment. George now purrs when I come in, meows at us to get his toys out from under the sofa, and eats from the bowl as I'm putting the food out. Blackie took a piece of chicken from my hand and ran away with it, but was also eating from the bowl this morning before I left the room. I think George was possibly a pet cat long ago, as a kitten maybe, before he was hit by a car and found by the animal rescue. He seems to know how to use humans properly! He gets so happy sometimes, rubs off Blackie and off the furniture, then rubs against my hand, realises what he's done, gets a fright, then just resumes the happy parade. I'm not used to having lap cats anyway, the indoors-outdoors cats my parents kept were always a bit aloof even indoors. If I (and I probably can) get George to a stage where he likes to be petted, then I've achieved all I wanted and more!

As requested, here is photos of the two cats! As close to Blackie as I could get without upsetting him, and George never sits still for a second so this was the best I could get of him.


Blackie


George

I accidentally pushed George away earlier, I was searching in a box and he kept getting into it, so I pushed him without thinking. He hissed and ran. I thought that would set us back a bit, but today, for the first time, he started rubbing against our hands and letting us pet him. He has become extremely affectionate, purring and wanting petting all the time - but only on his terms. If I try to pet him when he hasn't come over looking for it, he gets a bit hissy.

My partner made sure that I knew these were my cats, he likes cats but he has a very much "Your budgies, your cats" attitude about it, but today in Tesco he insisted we buy George a new set of toys! He doesn't need more toys, but now he's got a grand collection of eight toys. It's hard not to like him.

Blackie also came right over and ate beside my hand while I was dishing out the food - I don't think he'll ever be friendly, but at least he's being brave now. He's a funny cat too - he has no reaction to anything, no expressions. If I get too close he calmly walks in behind the couch and watches me. George loves him and rubs his face up against his all the time, and he doesn't even acknowledge it. He seems pretty bored and fed up with these silly young cats and humans.

Shocking in the extreme to think these two could have been put to sleep, or even if they had been kept as they were in the rescue as outdoor cats, would never have got this chance, especially for George, playing with his toys and becoming a pet cat!

doctor evil

Great to hear! It is early days yet, in a years time you may not even know yourself.

rabbit.84

blackie looks a bit wary alright very nice cats.

doctor evil

doctor evil wrote: »

Great to hear! It is early days yet, in a years time you may not even know yourself.

Thanks! I'm now dreading letting them out, I'm afraid of losing them! The animal shelter said a week, but I don't think they realised how tame George really is given the right space and attention (obviously you can't expect them to have the time to spend with each and every animal). We have to worm and deflea them before they can go out, I discovered a tick on George's neck earlier while he wanted scratching, but I can't imagine a way to get it off him. My parents' cat often has ticks, she's totally tame but moody, we just have to leave the ticks on her, they always fall off when they're full, or they burst.

We're going to give them another week at least in the house (costing us a fortune in cat litter) but I'm more worried that when we do let them out, I will stress myself stupid thinking they wont come back. If they are tame you can accompany them on their first few trips out, but these pair aren't really. We have agreed that when we do release them, we'll still feed them in the house for a few weeks, and maybe since it's summer leave the door open so they can come in and out. I never left the door open before, because mice and budgies aren't a great mix, and mice love bird seed. But the cats should take care of that concern. My budgies live upstairs anyway, so I can shut the door and then even if the cats get into the house at large, the birds are safe.

The Sweeper

budgese, many, many adult cats will spend the first week in a new house being timid, hissy and standoffish. If your cats were truly feral you'd see neither of them when you entered the room - they'd be under the furniture and would only come out for food, water and litter when the house was dark and quiet and you were asleep.

I wouldn't be letting either of those cats outdoors until you're quite firmly bonded with them and they're quite firmly bonded with your home. That'll be another couple of weeks at least. Until they're bonded to you and your house, they have no reason whatsover to come home if you let them out. They need to associate your home with a safe haven where there's food, water and bed before they can be relied upon to bolt for the house when threatened (as opposed to bolting for the bushes, or a neighbour's garden, or up a tree, or across a road, so on.)

One of my cats, Eric, came into our home as 'feral' and is now a majorly affectionate, vocal, interactive lap cat - unless someone new comes in the house, at which point he hides under the furniture. If he were to be trapped and contained at a rescue, they would assess him as feral because that's how he'd behave. When we brought him home he hid at the back of a cardboard box for four solid weeks, coming out only to eat and drink at night.

Both of your cats have the capacity to transform into smoochy, sociable cats with a little care and attention. You're seeing such fast progress in - what, five days? - because they're stuck indoors with you and are adjusting quickly. Three squares a day, litter, clean water, a quiet environment and warmth will do that to most cats. Beats the hell out of hunting your food, having things thrown at you, avoiding dogs, other cats and people who don't want you crapping in your garden, and trying to find someone who still puts their rubbish out in a plastic sack instead of a wheely bin so you can have a meal. You wouldn't be seeing this rapid progress if they weren't indoors with you.

I'd love to be able to reassure you that your cats will be 'just fine' if you allow them to roam, but the simple fact is I can't reassure you of that, and neither can anybody else on this form. If you let them out, they'll be fine right up to the moment that they're not fine - and that could be a week away, or it could be five years away. The point is you have no control over their environment if you allow them to roam freely.

I appreciate that you adopted two feral cats and weren't expecting to build things like cat runs or consider an indoor-only lifestyle for them. However even without that you can improve their chances.

Cats are crepuscular, meaning most active at dawn and dusk - so it's during these times of day that they'll head off on adventures. The following will help keep them safe if you're going to allow them out:

• Don't let them out during dawn and dusk hours - let them out when the sun is well up and bring them home before dusk.
• Consider allowing them outdoor access only when you're home, and call them in every so often so they don't roam too far.
• If you're going to give them all-day outdoor access when you're not home, install a catflap so they can get back indoors when they want, but make sure it has a locking mechanism so you can keep them in overnight.
• Keep them in all night every night.

You can exercise a lot of control over your cats through a feeding routine. Never free feed kibble - 24 hour access to the food bowl makes cats fat and removes the control you have over them. Work out a feeding regime that splits up wet and dry food and organise to feed your cats twice a day at the same time every day.

Start by removing 24 hour food access while they're indoors. Feed twice a day at set times, and each time associate a call and a noise with dinner. Many cat owners shake the kibble box, for instance, and the cats come running. (Mine just come when they're called, and that's built up over years of getting a food reward when they return.)

The first time you let them out in the morning, don't feed them before they go out. Shake the box to get them back indoors, and feed them their breakfast when they come when they're called. Don't let them back outside. If you do that for a few mornings, you'll set up a routine. You can use the same routine to get them inside in the evenings, basically ringing the dinner gong to get them to come in.

MaryK666

If you do nothing else Budgese, please listen to The Sweeper as he gives you some awesome advice in the last post.

Please wait for another few weeks before you let the cats out as you need a chance to bond with them and for them to realise that this is their new home. It takes longer with some cats than with others so better to wait as long as possible before entertaining the idea.
They are absolutely adorable and if you're apprehensive now about letting them out and know you'll be stressed until you know they're safe and going to come home, isn't it better to give them as much time as possible to aclimatise (sp) now and have to worry less in the long run.

I didn't say I was putting them out..... Ooops sorry post before I'd finished typing! They're not going out till they are defleaed and wormed anyway.

Oh dear, apologies, that was one distracted reply earlier. I have taken the advice to only feed them at their set feeding times - makes perfect sense, so that they know when to expect food, and that will continue to bring them back to the house. I'll have to get strict though, because once I leave for college (partner works from home) he goes in and gives them a bowl full of dry food. I told him not to and he says "But they look happy!" It's nice that he wants to spoil them, but it isn't helping!

George now likes to be petted. He has started to play games with me too, and he doesn't use his claws. He's a bit wasted on me, he could have been a great pet cat, but I guess the rescue weren't to know that. He only needed some good one-on-one time. Blackie still doesn't trust us, but doesn't run away and hide unless he's already active. If he's sleeping, then he'll usually stay sleeping. I was tickling his face earlier, but I was dishing out the food at the time, I could tell he wasn't too impressed and would have preferred I wasn't doing that, but he didn't want to stop eating either. That's fine. I had a tomcat as a teenager that I had raised by hand after his mother had been put to sleep, I could touch him but no one else could, but he loved to sit near people and watch them. Blackie will most likely be like this guy.

George is now hard to keep in, when we open the back door we have to block him with our feet. I am considering letting him into the garden just at feeding time, so he can poke about and then he'll come tearing back in when he hears the tin can being tapped. It'd be a two person job though, because I don't trust Blackie enough yet, and someone will have to stay at the door to be sure Blackie stays in and George doesn't stray too far. We have a large back garden which is great for them. I'm talking about two minutes outside time, just to help satisfy his curiousity, because I can tell they're getting bored in the sitting room. They were always outdoor cats, the rescue had them at a kennels were they were their own bosses. I was sneaking back in the door today, when George came over and peered outside, but even outdoor cats know when they're onto a good thing, he wasn't too keen to go out on a day like this!

These cats will be fine, they're a lot more than I expected from them, and I think a lot more than the rescue expected them to be too. I'm glad I have them, sweet little things, but I can't wait to get them deflea'd, I have fleas up my nose and down my top and in my hair, itching and scratching everywhere... we'll have that sorted very soon!

It's been 13 days since I got the two cats from the rescue. Several things have happened, and it's happening so quickly that I have been told by a fellow cat owner that I am starting to expect too much from them. I realise this is true.

George will now stand on my lap. He doesn't really want to be cuddled but he loves to be petted. I no longer have to wait for him to instigate it, I can go up to him and pet him. Blackie will now sniff my fingers if I approach him slowly enough. I did tickle his head and give him some petting, he thinks about it, then decides it's not for him and slinks off. He doesn't hide behind the couch from us, except for when the patio doors are open. He is terrified of what is outside the room. He is curious about what might be outside the door where we come in (from the hallway) but if I leave the patio door open he lodges himself behind the couch and wont come out for a very long time.

I started to give George supervised garden time. I have a tin of food at hand, so if he makes to leave the (large) garden, I only have to tap the tin, because George LOVES tinned food.

The reason I am letting them start to explore is that they've started fighting. George has tired of his toys and tries to tap Blackie around the face, and Blackie, long suffering and patient, has a breaking point too. I've caught them out mid fight once, hissed at them and they broke it up, but George is covered in cuts and scrapes. Seperating the cats is not an option. We have a small house, cats downstairs, budgies upstairs. I'm guessing they're bored and getting territorial. Often when he stands on my lap George makes the shape of a cat who is spraying, but doesn't spray. (I had an unfixed tom as a teen who thought I was his queen so sprayed me at every opportunity - I know when a cat sprays).

George comes out if I am outside, I sometimes just stay in the garden to entice them out. He walks around against the house wall, never ventures beyond,m even though our garden is large, but it's totally flat and just grass, he can see every corner. But when I open the door to the big outside, Blackie lodges himself behind the sofa, his safe spot, and wont come out for food or any bribes. George wants to get outside, Blackie is terrified of it. Makes sense, because Geroge is the younger, braver cat who has become a pet, Blackie is the older, more wild cat, and he's only just got safe in the sitting room, without introducing new territory.

When George gets out he actually reverts. He becomes less tame, he starts to bite and scratch again, and we have to be careful not to make him run. I only let them out ten minutes before evening feed, because I know he wont go too far.

I do only have them two weeks, though, I am expecting too much because they progressed so quickly. They need other stimuli though, to get them entertained and stop them fighting. Toys just aren't doing it anymore, George is bored of his toys.

A friend recommended ringing a bell at feeding time. She said that tapping a tin can is fine, but what if you stop feeding tinned food? George is just getting used to "psssswwsss" as a cat call, Blackie is unphased. She said I need to set up something that will stand out, I do live in a very noisy estate (rural, but noisy!). Very good idea, including this because others might benefit from the idea too.

I know it's such early days and the boys have progressed so quickly, so I'm going to give Blackie another week to be brave enough to step outside. After that, I might bribe him out by feeding him outside, then taking the dish in, and doling out more food. They can't stay as indoor cats. I would never have adopted an indoor cat. My budgie Marky is my little one, ten years old, but besides that I am allergic to animal hair. I don't care, I put up with it, but it's better for me if they're outdoor cats. They got a proper kennel the other day, Blackie has started to sleep in it, but George still prefers the couch!!

Thanks everyone for the advice so far, hoping for more advice now. Especially on the fighting, and George wanting to go out.

Zapperzy

Would a feliway diffuser help the situation? It might ease the fighting and take the edge of Blackie.

Thanks!! I had heard about the feliway thing before but wasn't sure what it was! Looked it up though. They have stopped fighting now. George was starting to push Blackie in a power struggle, but Blackie is by far the dominant cat and they are now curling up together to sleep, so George knows his place.

George now spends all afternoon in the garden. He hasn't left the garden yet, he just skulks around it then goes to sleep in the sun. It's very hard to convince him to come back in, because he knows we're going to shut the door behind him. Even with his tinned food, you can see him look from food, to the garden, food, garden.... he always does decide on food, though, either that or one of us can sneak up behind him and shut the door while he's deliberating. We were sitting out on the grass having a barbecue tonight and he was sitting beside us and being very affectionate and playful. Blackie comes out for a minute then darts back in. He needs more time to feel secure than George does. It's good that he has George to follow, because he does follow him out, look about, then go back in until he feels safe again.

Last post on this thread.... I wanted to let everyone know that my cats have made a successful transition from indoor to outdoor. We got them a very expensive kennel, and they love it. They play with their toys all over the garden. For the first time, they both left the garden, not together, for about two hours each. A neighbour's tomcat come around, and Blackie kicks the living sh*t out of him, which is good, because it shows that Blackie thinks this is his garden. I do break it up when I see it happening. (I only have to hiss, the tom runs away, Blackie doesn't). We are now able to touch Blackie. Nothing much, but able to tap him on the head or side and he doesn't leg it. However George is so affectionate and jealous! When we try to slowly, slowly, approach Blackie, George runs in the way cause he's mad jealous.

My semi wild outdoor cats have worked out great. One pet cat, one tame but not tame other cat, and if the weather gets rough, they will come inside without bribing.

I wish more people would adopt cats like I did. I was told "They're not tame and can't be tamed, give them a week them let them out". George I can now pick up and cuddle, Blackie wont ever be a pet but that's his prerogative. I adopted him knowing he wasn't a pet so I am not going to try to force him.

I took two semi-wild cats from a rescue knowing they needed me as much as I wanted them, I am amazed at what I have got out of it. Wish more people were open to it!

It's nearly three months since I posted on this thread, and I wouldn't resurrect an old thread cept that this post is only relevant to this thread!

After three months, Blackie became tame. We didn't do anything to make him tame, he just one day walked up to us and got affectionate! He loves to be petted, and he also loves being picked up and cuddled! George is so madly jealous that when you try to pet Blackie you will get a big smack from a white-and-tabby claw. When we pick George up he freezes up and gets nervous, but when we pick Blackie up he is exceptionally happy, and when we put him down he doesn't run like a normal cat does, he just plonks down in a heap.

I have to say worming and defleaing the cats has been so much easier - but I dread the next vet visit! We haven't brought Blackie yet, he was too wild to even consider it until two weeks ago. We brought George, and what happened should be on youtube, it was cat comedy gold. The vet afterwards rang me and said she would like to see George again, but, ("and we never, ever do this but...") we had to go down and pick up some sedatives to give to him first. She said "We rarely see feral cats in the practice" and I tried to interject but she cut me off by saying "Your cat is what WE consider feral!" George made an ass out of us all that day in the vet's room! Even the people outside were laughing when we came out.

The cats are due their vet visit in November. Wish us luck!!

I do wish more people would consider older, "wild" cats, because my two prove that over time there is hope for every cat - and they don't have to be indoor pets for it to happen!

MaryK666

Delighted to hear how they're getting on and settling in. I'm sure that they're as delighted to have you as you are to have them. They seem to have come a long way in a few months and I'm delighted it's worked out so well for all four of you.

I'm just curious to know what area of Dublin you're in as there are some vets out there who are not great with cats and some who seem to be perfect cat vets.
We're lucky enough to have two of the latter in our local practice and have no problem dealing with the ferals we occasionally bring in to them.
Three of our own cats are fine at the vets but one of our girls (an ex-feral) absolutely hates the place and drools in terror every time she has to go there. Luckily, it's not too often but either of our regular vets are great with her and, despite her ability to turn into a spitting ball of claws and teeth, they're never put off by her.

Hopefully all will go well with your November visit but if you have transport and ever consider changing vets, just PM me and I'll pass on our vets details.