NO DVB-T Reception - TV License?

Pangea

My friend has a TV and He cannot receive any of Irish DVB-T channels due to his location, just wondering is he obliged to pay for a TV license?
It seems daft paying RTE 160 euro when you can't receive any RTE stations!
He does have Free To Air channels from DVB-S though.

TheReverend

Pangea wrote: »

My friend has a TV and He cannot receive any of Irish DVB-T channels due to his location, just wondering is he obliged to pay for a TV license?
It seems daft paying RTE 160 euro when you can't receive any RTE stations!
He does have Free To Air channels from DVB-S though.

Sadly yes he is, the TV license covers devices which can receive transmissions regardless of if you do or dont.

maggy_thatcher

Purely hypothetically - but what if you have a TV that can't receive DVB-T/Mpeg4 transmissions, and you don't have an FTA satellite box or anything like that...come analogue-switch-off would you still be required to have a TV licence? As far as I could see a person with just a regular analogue TV wouldn't have any "equipment capable of receiving a television signal" as nothing is transmitted on those bands?

Just a thought...

Sam Russell

Even if you have a 405 line TV, you are required to have a licence.

TheReverend

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Purely hypothetically - but what if you have a TV that can't receive DVB-T/Mpeg4 transmissions, and you don't have an FTA satellite box or anything like that...come analogue-switch-off would you still be required to have a TV licence? As far as I could see a person with just a regular analogue TV wouldn't have any "equipment capable of receiving a television signal" as nothing is transmitted on those bands?

Just a thought...

Radio is till counted I think

Sam Russell

TheReverend wrote: »

Radio is till counted I think

No radio is not required to have a licence, only TV or equipent that can receive a TV signal.

TheReverend

Sam Russell wrote: »

No radio is not required to have a licence, only TV or equipent that can receive a TV signal.

I stand corrected then, I thought it was :P

Solair

Well, the equipment is not capable of receiving a signal that does not exist. So, I think you could certainly have a long argument in court about it!

Also a 405-line television is not capable of receiving a television signal as the standard is completely obsolete and most of those old televisions cannot be used as a monitor i.e. they predate SCART sockets etc by quite a few decades

A 625-line PAL television will no longer be capable of receiving television signals in a few years time if the only standard broadcast is DVB-T

scath

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Purely hypothetically - but what if you have a TV that can't receive DVB-T/Mpeg4 transmissions, and you don't have an FTA satellite box or anything like that...come analogue-switch-off would you still be required to have a TV licence? As far as I could see a person with just a regular analogue TV wouldn't have any "equipment capable of receiving a television signal" as nothing is transmitted on those bands?

Just a thought...

A new transmission system for RTÉ is arriving shortly that will cover your area. Its Saorsat. Check the satellite forum here on boards. Saorsat will be launched towards the end of the year, only covers Ireland so is a different type of satellite signal than the UK Freesat or FreesatfromSky which are widebeam whereas Saorsat will be narrowbeam.

Saorsat will cover 100% of the country, areas like yours particularly its designed for that can't received saorview due to terrain. The dish is different to the Sky/Freesat ones, but you can get hyrid ones from the USA that do both I think or u can mount the two dishes on the one pole.

So really that excuse regarding TV license never mind point of law which means you have to pay, this end will also back them up soon too.

scath

Solair wrote: »

Well, the equipment is not capable of receiving a signal that does not exist. So, I think you could certainly have a long argument in court about it!

Also a 405-line television is not capable of receiving a television signal as the standard is completely obsolete and most of those old televisions cannot be used as a monitor i.e. they predate SCART sockets etc by quite a few decades

A 625-line PAL television will no longer be capable of receiving television signals in a few years time if the only standard broadcast is DVB-T

Okay, but the thing is that both TVs will be capable of receiving television signals in a few years time with the connecting in via RF cable if scart not available to a DVB-T set top box (stb). So the stb coverts the DVB-T back to analogue that both the 405-line which had an RF cable and, 625 can display. So that argument won't work either, never mind the point of law.

lucernarian

Sam Russell wrote: »

Even if you have a 405 line TV, you are required to have a licence.

I've never read that interpretation before but I've only looked at some of the threads that discuss TV licenses in general. They can't levy a TV license on those people who have computer monitors and no TV tuner in the house. For those TVs which do not have the capability of recieving DVB-T MPEG4 video, how is the situation different?

AstralTV

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm

Q. Do I require a television Licence even though I am unable to receive RTÉ and other Irish regulated broadcasts?
A. Yes. The position is that once you are in possession of a television set capable of receiving television broadcasts, you are required to have a television licence. Effectively, it is the set that is licensed, not the ability to receive television broadcasts.

Solair

But, an analogue TV, particularly a 405 line TV, would be as unable to receive television broadcasts as a computer monitor.

I could watch RTE's DVB-T output on my laptop with much less difficulty than I could watch it on a 1960s TV, yet I'm not required to have a license for my laptop screen.

An analogue 625 line PAL TV will be in the same position in a few years time.

Surely the license should apply only to a DVB-T capable TV, DVB-T reception equipment, cable or sat box not a dumb monitor

Hotblack Desiato

scath wrote: »

Okay, but the thing is that both TVs will be capable of receiving television signals in a few years time with the connecting in via RF cable if scart not available to a DVB-T set top box (stb).

And a computer monitor with HDMI is capable of 'receiving' those signals too - but what it's really doing is just acting as a dumb display same as a 625 (post ASO) or 405 set would, the STB is what is receiving the broadcast signals, it is the tuner, it is the STB that requires a licence. No tuner capable of receiving broadcast signals = no licence required.

Hotblack Desiato

Solair wrote: »

I could watch RTE's DVB-T output on my laptop with much less difficulty than I could watch it on a 1960s TV, yet I'm not required to have a license for my laptop screen.

Not for the laptop itself, but your DVB-T USB stick or PCI card is required to be licensed as it is capable of tuning broadcast signals.

jett

When I first moved over 7 years ago I got a new house in the sticks, fitted it out over a 6 month period and had no need for a telly. To be honest 6 months without the media was great, no misery etc, just living life.
As it was a new house the licence man visited and I was able to show him the telly free zone. Much to his dissapointment.
Then winter came I got a telly and was happy to watch videos and DVDs.
Along came the licence man while I was abroad. Looked through the window, saw the telly and then demanded the licence. I had not even got an ariel.
Paid for the licence, fitted the ariel and bugger all signal.
It was my first experience of catch 22 rip off ireland.
Coming from England where its so normal to get a full service anywhere and then finding myself banjaxed wherever I turned was the first of many similar experiences.
The law is an Ass.

Solair

Well, in urban England or flat places where there are no mountains it's normal to get a reception over the air.

However, I've relatives in parts of Scotland and Northern England who can't get anything without a satellite dish and in one case, the local council won't allow them to put up a satellite dish due to planning restrictions so they just have no telly at all!

British TV licensing is every bit as nuts and it's even more agressively enforced.

Another of my British relatives is a bit of an aging eco-warrior and thinks that TV is a waste of energy and anti-social and he prefers not to watch it, so he does not own one.

TV Licensing harass him on an annual basis, one over-zealous inspector even demanded to search his house at one stage and only gave up when my relative threatened to call the police and have them adjudicate.

Despite having explained the situation over and over, he still receives endless threatening letters from them etc etc They simply will not believe that he has no television.

The Irish system is just a carbon copy of the British system, only a little bit more haphazardly enforced by An Post than by the privatised TV Licensing operation in the UK.

lawhec

Solair wrote: »

Well, in urban England or flat places where there are no mountains it's normal to get a reception over the air.

However, I've relatives in parts of Scotland and Northern England who can't get anything without a satellite dish and in one case, the local council won't allow them to put up a satellite dish due to planning restrictions so they just have no telly at all!

British TV licensing is every bit as nuts and it's even more agressively enforced.

Another of my British relatives is a bit of an aging eco-warrior and thinks that TV is a waste of energy and anti-social and he prefers not to watch it, so he does not own one.

TV Licensing harass him on an annual basis, one over-zealous inspector even demanded to search his house at one stage and only gave up when my relative threatened to call the police and have them adjudicate.

Despite having explained the situation over and over, he still receives endless threatening letters from them etc etc They simply will not believe that he has no television.

The Irish system is just a carbon copy of the British system, only a little bit more haphazardly enforced by An Post than by the privatised TV Licensing operation in the UK.

The UK TV licensing authorities don't have the greatest of reputations when it comes to constructive enforcement, however the actual rules on TV licensing in the UK are much less cluttered and to the point than in the ROI.

For example you have to be in possession of a receiving apparatus that is tuned to a transmission - if a television is only used say for watching DVDs, then provided there's no obvious aerial cable plugged in or behind the TV and that (for analogue at least) is "detuned", then it is not liable to be licensed - AFAIK in ROI the TV would still require to be licensed.

For the BBC iPlayer, to watch live streams of broadcasts you're supposed to have a licence, but catch-ups don't.

In the case for 405 and 625 line televisions that have analogue only tuners which can receive no over-the-air broadcasts in their native formats, they become liable to being licensed if they are connected to an apparatus that can tune in to a broadcast signal which is then connected to the said television for display; set-top boxes come under this wherever Freeview, Sky, Freesat, Virgin etc. in fact, it's really the tuner in question that needs to be licensed rather than the display. For anorak info, some people have actually converted Freeview STBs to display pictures on 405 line sets!

Re: Last sentence, that's incorrect - because of the different rules regarding what requires a premises to be licensed, Irish and British rules are not the same.l This is why I don't generally post on issues concerning the ROI TV License as there's a good chance anything I say could be wrong.

seanson71

Sorry to butt in but is Ireland dvb-t or dvb-t2?? I bought this box: http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9291621.htm
from argos (probably a mistake) and i can't get any channels.Maybe it's the MPEG-2 thing???

The Cush

seanson71 wrote: »

Sorry to butt in but is Ireland dvb-t or dvb-t2?? I bought this box: http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9291621.htm
from argos (probably a mistake) and i can't get any channels.Maybe it's the MPEG-2 thing???

It's the MPEG-2 thing. Saorview is DVB-T/MPEG-4.

STB

seanson71 wrote: »

Sorry to butt in but is Ireland dvb-t or dvb-t2?? I bought this box: http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9291621.htm
from argos (probably a mistake) and i can't get any channels.Maybe it's the MPEG-2 thing???

Well if you bought it off the Argos.ie website, then give/bring it back - the DVB-T tuner is worse than useless and demand a refund. These products were never suitable for Ireland and should not be offered for sale on the Irish website.

jimbocrimbo

So what's the final word on this subject?
When the standard changes to DVB-T, then the majority of TV's in the country won't be capable of receiving a signal without being connected to a DVB-T receiver.
So how can they still demand a license for a monitor that can't receive a signal without a separate receiving device? By that reasoning nearly any device with a screen is subject to licensing.
I think for a few people (including myself) this is an opportune time to switch our 50" flat screens into an internet connected multimedia powerhouse to replace the glowing advertisement banner it's been posing as for the past while.
And some unfair, greedy licensing could be the **** in my omelette I'm afraid.