Official: why Rosslare port train leaves before ferry arrives

n97 mini

No foot passengers (becomes self fulfilling), and because customers further up the line wanted an earlier train.

Doesn't explain why the last train serves the port at all.



(Oops, cut too short. From Phil Vester, Deputy CE.)

corktina

so whats the point of serving the port at all? surely none goes there to board a train when it would be easier and cheaper to go to the town or strand stations.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

No foot passengers (becomes self fulfilling), and because customers further up the line wanted an earlier train.

Doesn't explain why the last train serves the port at all.



(Oops, cut too short. From Phil Vester, Deputy CE.)

Plus the detailed reasoning posted elsewhere on this board of the fact that you simply cannot path the train until 1915 without having massive delays en route. That frankly is too long a gap from the previous train, and currently there is no stock to fill that gap. Until the new units are commissioned and at least one extra return working added on the route the status quo will remain.

As for why it goes to/from the harbour, do no locals from Rosslare Harbour use the service?

It's also the drivers' base.

Niles

I wouldn't agree with a lot of IÉ's eh, developments, at Rosslare, but I kind of see the logic in this case. It makes more sense to orientate the train schedule to suit travel patterns from towns en route to Dublin than solely for ferry passengers. Of course, if both markets could be catered for with the one train then it should be done, but in a case where it's one or the other then I don't think ferry connections should be the priority to be honest.

Of course, in an ideal world the company would be operating a more frequent service on the route (like Sligo) and perhaps the wait between trains and ferries wouldn't be as much of an issue.

CIE

n97 mini wrote: »

No foot passengers (becomes self fulfilling), and because customers further up the line wanted an earlier train.

Doesn't explain why the last train serves the port at all.



(Oops, cut too short. From Phil Vester, Deputy CE.)

That's not a reason at all. It's not even a good excuse.

Note that they lay things on the "sister company". Conflict of interest much?

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

As for why it goes to/from the harbour, do no locals from Rosslare Harbour use the service?

What locals? No-one lives in the port to they?

lxflyer wrote: »

It's also the drivers' base.

Now we're getting somewhere...

Cookie_Monster

the least they could do is move the train forward a few more minute so the poor sods on the ferry can't actually see it leaving as they pull in. that's the real kick in the teeth to them

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

What locals? No-one lives in the port to they?


Now we're getting somewhere...

There is actually a reasonable number of people living in the area at the top of the hill above the port and 5-10 minutes walk from the station - that is Rosslare Harbour village.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the least they could do is move the train forward a few more minute so the poor sods on the ferry can't actually see it leaving as they pull in. that's the real kick in the teeth to them

At the end of the day the timings of that train are dictated by:
1) The clockface DART service to Greystones
2) Crossing points with the three trains that are coming south.

The only viable alternative to that time is 19:15 which leaves too long a gap from the previous northbound service and is too late for people travelling north from the rest of the stations on the line.

When the new units are commissioned an extra train could be added earlier that would allow this service be deferred to 19:15.

corktina

closing the stable door after the horse has bolted Whatever traffic there once was will be hard to win back BE1 IE 0 with 85 minutes played.

n97 mini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the least they could do is move the train forward a few more minute so the poor sods on the ferry can't actually see it leaving as they pull in. that's the real kick in the teeth to them

Since they move the station further up the line every few years are they still able to see it from the ferry?

steamengine

n97 mini wrote: »

Since they move the station further up the line every few years are they still able to see it from the ferry?

The track hugs the shore-line to Rosslare Strand so the train is quite visible from the approach to the harbour. Have to agree with Cookie - the optics for tourists on this one ain't good. Ok - there's a bus but surely it's not rocket science to match a ferry arrival to a departing train and utilise the rail service for the purpose it was originally intended.

BenShermin

Could the regular domestic passengers on this route not avail of the service from the sister company, Bus Éireann?

Oh yeah, they already do:P.

dowlingm

Sister company my hole.

The sister company that took the south Wexford catchment to their Waterford network on the south quay, not IE's. The sister company trying to bury IE on routes like Limerick-Galway, Limerick-Dublin etc. with the X routes.

IE should be allowed to run their own branded buses during offpeak or to feed railheads like Midleton and Dunboyne but should be obligated to always serve a railhead and have their licence conditional on continued service to the railhead rather than full replacement by buses.

nanu nanu

Oh, why not let IE run a bus now and again? As long the the cost is taken from their operating profits and not funded by Paddy the tax payer. Or why don't we let Paddy subsidise all brain boxes flawed spends? Doesn't grow on trees you know!

rainbowdash

Can they change the times of the Ferries?

nanu nanu

Which should take priority? There is a posibility that the boat could slow up on the way in. My thoughts are that there is an agreement in place. You arive at 18:00 and I will leave at 17:50. Is the boat subsidised by Paddy the tax payer?

corktina

rainbowdash wrote: »

Can they change the times of the Ferries?

i assume being that Irish Ferries and Stena both arrive and depart in the same time window, that the time depends on the tides, on both sides and maybe also is related to the train times the other side which DO connect with the ferry and seem to be quite well patronised

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

i assume being that Irish Ferries and Stena both arrive and depart in the same time window, that the time depends on the tides, on both sides and maybe also is related to the train times the other side which DO connect with the ferry and seem to be quite well patronised

Stena arrives in 18.00 hrs, and Irish Ferries at 18.45 hrs, give or take a few minutes either way, according to recent arrivals records. They are set schedules so tides can't be an issue - The train departure time of 17.55 doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

corktina

the actual arrival times probably vary from the public timetable and the tide window would fluctuate but maybe the times are selected to be the optimum conditions over a range of tides. I dont think you are right that the ferries arrive 45 minutes apart. In my experiance of 100+ crossings they arrive and depart within 10 or 15 minutes of each other, often following each other into port. I dont have any figures to back this u, so i could be wrong.

steamengine

It's been a long time since I witnessed the evening ferry movements on a regular basis but I've looked up the current records. However, let's not get side-tracked from the main issue of the train departing just 5 minutes before the arrival of the Stena ferry. link

corktina

in excusable IMHO

LXFlyer

But as I have repeatedly pointed out - the ONLY other time that the train could leave is 1915 without long delays en route to it or the far busier three southbound services.

Until another train fills the gap between this service and the one before it that is too long a gap between trains and is too late getting into Dublin.

corktina

thats an opinion presumably or are you saying that on behalf of IE?

dowlingm

corktina - perhaps you could have a look at the timetable and show us where it's possible - taking into account that the entire length of the line south of Bray is single track with the odd passing loop here and there.

corktina

i know little about pathing BUT if it used to be possible in steam days then surely it is solvable with modern traction.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

thats an opinion presumably or are you saying that on behalf of IE?

No it's based on looking at it from a technical perspective, which while it might bore some people, is the only way that this can be done without making sweeping comments without foundation. Unlike everyone else here I sat down and tried to path the train so that it would connect with the ship, using the proposed timetable here, and the sectional running times contained therein, along with the clockface DART service north of Greystones.

dowlingm wrote: »

corktina - perhaps you could have a look at the timetable and show us where it's possible - taking into account that the entire length of the line south of Bray is single track with the odd passing loop here and there.

corktina wrote: »

i know little about pathing BUT if it used to be possible in steam days then surely it is solvable with modern traction.

The problem is that in the steam days you did not have the constraints of the clockface DART service including a half-hourly service to/from Greystones and three southbound services on the DSER to Wexford/Rosslare with which you had to cross.

I already posted the results in the draft Connolly timetable discussion thread here, here, here, and here.

Getting out of Rosslare you are totally constrained by where the train would pass the three southbound services to Wexford/Rosslare, the times of which are in turn dictated by the clockface DART service north of Greystones, which allows two short windows per hour for a Rosslare service to travel between Bray and Greystones or v.v.

As I said in each of the above posts I am totally in favour of such a service but if it were delayed to 1915 it would mean a 6.5 hour gap in northbound services from all the other stations along the line, and a very late arrival into Dublin. Without adding an extra service at say 15:55 or 16:55 from Rosslare (for which there is currently no rolling stock available), then it really is not a feasible option.

Leaving at 1915 takes up the path of the current (or not so current!) 1930 from Wexford pretty much.

steamengine

Can DMU's not be readily split? The down train which forms the 17.55 departure from Rosslare could incorporate a shorter unit which remains at Rosslare until say 19.00 hrs. It then proceeds to Wexford and joins up to the 19.30 departure. Just an idea !!!

LXFlyer

steamengine wrote: »

Can DMU's not be readily split? The down train which forms the 17.55 departure from Rosslare could incorporate a shorter unit which remains at Rosslare until say 19.00 hrs. It then proceeds to Wexford and joins up to the 19.30 departure. Just an idea !!!

It's a 3 piece ICR - How do you split that?

There is no spare rolling stock!!!

There won't be a 1930 service in the new timetable as that stock will now overnight in Rosslare.

corktina

Easy..use the WRC solution...close somthing else.

dowlingm

Stock isn't going to be (or at least SHOULDN'T be) an issue once the 22000s are commissioned. Paths are the problem. Unfortunately a lot of the stations on this line are woefully constrained geographically like Rathdrum and Enniscorthy with little scope to convert short loops into longer dynamic ones.

I'm conflicted on this line - capital investment could bring real improvements but Bray Head and other landslip zones make it extremely vulnerable to closures, and now IE has shut the back door to Waterford so stock might in theory be rescued (if the weeds haven't grown too high) but an emergency revenue service say Enniscorthy-Wexford-Rosslare-Waterford is precluded since there are no gatekeepers. Additionally the short platforms on most line stations (130-140m rather than the 176m ideal to 6-car 22K operation or 8-car 29K) means those capital expenses have limited upside in additional revenue.

steamengine

lxflyer wrote: »

It's a 3 piece ICR - How do you split that?

There is no spare rolling stock!!!

There won't be a 1930 service in the new timetable as that stock will now overnight in Rosslare.

Clearly a 3 piece can't be split, but would a 6 car set not be more suitable for the Wexford Rosslare service in general, and also leave the option of splitting and joining to add flexibility, as in my suggestion above ?

That is, when the additional 22,000's come on stream.

LXFlyer

steamengine wrote: »

Clearly a 3 piece can't be split, but would a 6 car set not be more suitable for the Wexford Rosslare service in general, and also leave the option of splitting and joining to add flexibility, as in my suggestion above ?

That is, when the additional 22,000's come on stream.

Post 22k commissioning there will be no rolling stock problems - hence an additional train could operate earlier in the day. My posts are in response to various posters who were asking why the train does not operate later in the current or proposed timetables.

Six-piece ICRs cannot operate on the DSER due to the short platforms at Rathdrum which cannot be lengthened due to the space restrictions.