Female gardai pose as prostitutes

jimmynokia

Today in the new 60 men where arrested and charged as female gardai posed as escorts in the north inner city.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fm104.ie%2Fnews%2Fnews-item.aspx%3FID%3D0c01bb4b-e9dd-4c30-92af-c593619b9fc0%26audio%3Dtrue&ei=Xpb3TZ_qNoaAhQftpr2RDA&usg=AFQjCNEV286-kJ5Rlf-s0KcMIwbXKes3tw&sig2=P47VCr4u7OjYd5fh_ytwTw

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2Fcrime%2Fgarda-strategy-focuses-on-men-soliciting-prostitutes-157738.html&ei=Xpb3TZ_qNoaAhQftpr2RDA&usg=AFQjCNGKkgPjM3HtWLijvCR_Re8M133TKw&sig2=YxkW1AO0B-dAFY6KXxH4eg

So does this mean its ok for the hundreds of brothels to remain open?
The gardai know where these are and some are right under their noses.


So is it fair to go about this this way by sending in actors so to speak.
Why not target the hundreds of vice dens?
Would legalizing prostitution be better or worse.

Eric Cartman

they must have either hired new bangards or those men were arrested for having no standards

Badgermonkey

Presumably as male prostitutes yeah?

Biggins

jimmynokia wrote: »

...So does this mean its ok for the hundreds of brothels to remain open?
The gardai know where these are and some are right under their noses.

Knowing something and proving it in the eyes of the legal law, to the point jury/judge conviction criteria, is another matter.

Alter-Ego

Ah lads, some of them are hot. Not €200 an hour hot, but still pretty decent.

Gary4279

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

So they are targeting the men/women that want to use these 'services' but not the service providers.

Bravo.

Rawhead

Should be easy enough spot with the fat camogie playing cankles, the 4 stone extra they'd be carrying on the regular junkie cum dumpsters and the "how's she cuttin, would you like me to suck ya off" approach.

Elmidena

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

"They were propositioned by males in cars and were subsequently arrested," said Insp Healy.

Was this before or after the sex and the cash exchange? I'm sure the man briefly felt ar mhuin na muice

Dangerous Man

So it's okay to be a prostitute but not to avial of their services? Is this the principle that the Gardai are working with?

Princess Peach

Is the way the poll is set with questions as choices confusing to others?

mikemac

I'm confused by your poll

Am I voting yes or no with the options?

The title should be a question but not the options, bit of a mess

WindSock

Is it wrong to have a poll option that's a question?

bonerm

jimmynokia wrote: »

Why not target the hundreds of vice dens?

They probably don't want to risk accidentally arresting a TD or High Court Judge by mistake.

jimmynokia

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Presumably as male prostitutes yeah?

TRY keep it on a mature level we are talking female gardai posing as street walkers.

Biggins

Poll needs to be scrapped and redone.

Elmidena

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

Prostitution has been in civilised history for a loooooooooong time. Far better to regulate it and give the women freedom and support rather than the current half-starved beaten up preggo junkies a lot of them unfortunately are. If it's regulated, the sex trafficking crimes would lessen and hey, it could pay off some of the bailout debt.

Tis frightening life on the street.

Phill Ewinn

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

Do ye get charged after the shag or before?

Alter-Ego

That "Poll" is might confusing...

Eric Cartman

Dangerous Man wrote: »

So it's okay to be a prostitute but not to avial of their services? Is this the principle that the Gardai are working with?

yes, yet another law (like the age of consent law) which just serves to punish men

jimmynokia

The questions in the poll are simple its just a basic feel for what the public thinks im after.
my personal opinion is its wrong for the gardai to go out like kids and trap men,other than that its the oldest profession in the world and the government could cash in if at was legalized,yet they target kerb crawlers(cheap way for quick relief)
And there is hundreds or brothels/independants making a small fortune every week.....TAX FREE

pablomakaveli

Tbh ever since i found out Ruhama are a Catholic organization i've started taking what they say with a pinch of salt.

gerrycollins

jimmynokia wrote: »

Today in the new 60 men where arrested and charged as female gardai posed as escorts in the north inner city.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fm104.ie%2Fnews%2Fnews-item.aspx%3FID%3D0c01bb4b-e9dd-4c30-92af-c593619b9fc0%26audio%3Dtrue&ei=Xpb3TZ_qNoaAhQftpr2RDA&usg=AFQjCNEV286-kJ5Rlf-s0KcMIwbXKes3tw&sig2=P47VCr4u7OjYd5fh_ytwTw

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2Fcrime%2Fgarda-strategy-focuses-on-men-soliciting-prostitutes-157738.html&ei=Xpb3TZ_qNoaAhQftpr2RDA&usg=AFQjCNGKkgPjM3HtWLijvCR_Re8M133TKw&sig2=YxkW1AO0B-dAFY6KXxH4eg

So does this mean its ok for the hundreds of brothels to remain open?
The gardai know where these are and some are right under their noses.


So is it fair to go about this this way by sending in actors so to speak.
Why not target the hundreds of vice dens?
Would legalizing prostitution be better or worse.

read before,cant quote it, but it was a UN report or something like that which claimed that the prostitutes were victims and as such they are not prosectuted as much.

the same for brothels, finding the bosses is what matters not the women inthem

BEASTERLY

I don't see a problem with the tactics being used by the gardai. If they quell the demand the supply will stop.

hatrickpatrick

Nanny state. Your body your choice. If something is consensual then the government should butt out.

jimmynokia

gerrycollins wrote: »

read before,cant quote it, but it was a UN report or something like that which claimed that the prostitutes were victims and as such they are not prosectuted as much.

the same for brothels, finding the bosses is what matters not the women inthem

There is alot gone independent now,more risky but more takings for them.No pimp to pay.

jimmynokia

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nanny state. Your body your choice. If something is consensual then the government should butt out.

quite true if its consensual.nobodys business but the two concenting adults

philologos

OP: I think the Swedish model of prostitution is much better. Criminalise the pimps and those purchasing, but allow the prostitutes to inform the police about what they are doing. It makes much better sense as many are prostitutes under coercion rather than out of their own free will.

bonerm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nanny state. Your body your choice. If something is consensual then the government should butt out.

Now, now. People must fúck for the future, not for profit or personal amusement. It is your duty to drop as many new hungry mouths out into this world in order to fuel the fake economy and keep yourself in an eternal debt trap.

Every sperm is sacred!

Marsden

Any legal buffs know if this is entrapment?

Marguerite Tonery

I find that a very degrading way to treat your fellow garda officer. If you dress women in attire that lures people to engage with them for prostitution, what is that saying about the way women are being treated in the Garda Siochana? There was a study done in the U.S. a number of years ago, where college students were given two roles in a prison setting, one half of the students were assigned the role of prisoners, the other half assigned the role of officers. This was a social psychology experiment. The experiment had to be stopped because the students who were assigned the role of officers became too violent towards their fellow students, whom they had perceived as less than them. I could see how this could go wrong. Would those officers who posed as prostitutes be seen in a lesser light by their colleagues (it happens, social psychology experiments have proven it), and if so are they open to harrassment and would they be less likely to be promoted than other female gardai who did not dress as prostitutes. The other thing to consider is this: Has this already affected the self-esteems of those officers who engaged in the garda operation? I believe that it will definitely have changed their outlook on the situation that exists for prostitutes and on men/women in general to some degree.

jimmynokia

Marsden wrote: »

Any legal buffs know if this is entrapment?

my thoughts too.

orourkeda

Is that them in coppers

7sr2z3fely84g5

Marsden wrote: »

Any legal buffs know if this is entrapment?

not a lawyer,but i dont think it is,the onus is on the customer to walk away-

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definitions/entrapment.htm

in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead. The key to entrapment is whether the idea for the commission or encouragement of the criminal act originated with the police or government agents instead of with the "criminal." Entrapment, if proved, is a defense to a criminal prosecution. The accused often claims entrapment in so-called "stings" in which undercover agents buy or sell narcotics, prostitutes' services or arrange to purchase goods believed to be stolen. The factual question is: Would Johnny Begood have purchased the drugs if not pressed by the narc?

InTheTrees

jimmynokia wrote: »

So does this mean its ok for the hundreds of brothels to remain open?

There are? I feel so out of touch...

Wolfe Tone

female gardaí in nixer shocker

Badgermonkey

philologos wrote: »

OP: I think the Swedish model of prostitution is much better. Criminalise the pimps and those purchasing, but allow the prostitutes to inform the police about what they are doing. It makes much better sense as many are prostitutes under coercion rather than out of their own free will.

Don't often agree with Myers but feel he's spot on with regard to this issue.

By Kevin Myers
Tuesday February 08 2011
According to its justice spokesman, the Labour Party will introduce the "Swedish" laws on prostitution -- by which it is illegal to buy sexual favours, and the male client commits the crime, while the woman remains innocent. And so, thanks to Rampantte Rabbitte, we are back to sex again.

What is it about this subject that causes such widespread irrationality? Why is it laudable for me to pay a woman to massage my scalp or my feet, but if I pay her to massage the parts half-way between, it's disgusting and wicked and someone should dial 999? Yet if no money is involved, this middle-massage is regarded as healthy and normal, and when done by a man on a woman is now regarded as a mandatory part of sex.

However, this almost universal activity becomes uniquely taboo the moment that money is introduced into it. But I can pay for similar services to any other part of my body, and no one says a word. Odd, isn't it?

And once middle-massage becomes unlawful, it is usually controlled by criminals, and professional middle masseuses are usually beyond the protection of the law. Indeed, the whole business is so corrupted by prohibition that many middle masseuses are allegedly "trafficked" in the way that hairdressers and pedicurists seldom seem to be. Though I could be wrong: possibly containers with manipulators of tonsure and toe are smuggled in through Dublin docks at night, and their human cargoes secretly distributed to underground hairdressing and foot-rubbing parlours across the country.

At which point, enter the chorus of disapproving shrieks: I am making light of the trafficking of women as slave-prostitutes! I am trivialising the exploitation of the victims of organised rape! I am being flippant about a crime against humanity!

No I'm not. What I'm actually saying is that there is little or no involuntary trafficking of sex-workers, notwithstanding the allegations by John Cunningham of the Immigration Council of Ireland. He speaks of women and girls "being collected at Dublin Airport and taken to apartments where they were gang-raped for days". After being given "a few days to pull themselves together", they are put into brothels operating across Ireland.

Well, since every single aspect of this -- the kidnapping, the mass-rape, the forcible prostitution -- is already both against the law and comprehensively evil, why is another law needed? And anyway, most of his allegations are fable. A police survey in Britain was unable to find one single authentic case in which a foreign girl had been forcibly trafficked into the country for prostitution against her will. Allegations of kidnap and rape there have usually been made by illegal-immigrants in order to substantiate asylum-seeking claims.

Three years ago, the Swedish government appointed a judge, Anna Skarhed, to examine its anti-prostitution laws. Its directive stated that the inquiry could not suggest, or point in any direction other than that buying of sex should be criminalised. They chose the right person, for she ruled: "Based on a gender equality and human rights perspective . . . the distinction between voluntary and non-voluntary prostitution is not relevant."

This is classically Orwellian double-speak, in which the ideologically-defined abstracts of "equality" and "human rights" entirely invalidate the only absolute human concept, that of personal freedom. So, by Skarhedian standards, a working girl who genuinely chooses to provide middle massages for a living is no "freer" than a sexual galley-slave. Yes, she might think she is, and the galley slave will certainly think she is, but old Skarhed doesn't, and she's the thought-police and so her opinion counts.

Some women are "forced" into prostitution for economic reasons, goes the complaint. Possibly, says Pye Jakobsson, of the Rose Alliance of Swedish sex workers -- but is that any worse than having to clean up faeces in an old people's home?

Supporters of the Swedish whore-law declare that it has reduced the amount of prostitution there. But this is not a "fact", so much as a statement of faith. The Socialstyrelsen -- the Swedish Department of Health -- doesn't know how many sex workers in Sweden there are, and accepts that internet-driven prostitution is almost impossible to calculate or control.

Because this is usually a "crime" without a complainant, the claim that fewer clients are visiting middle masseuses is based on questionnaire-surveys of Swedish men. This surely is a criminological first: that a government tries to measure the levels of "crime" by asking the criminals to own up. Therefore -- no admission, no crime: QED. What a surprise.

The real intention of the Swedish law is certainly not to make life better for the middle masseuses. Anna Skarhed again: "We don't work with harm reduction in Sweden. Because that's not the way Sweden looks upon this. We see it as a ban on prostitution: there should be no prostitution."

Quite so. But history shows that moralising prohibitions upon human appetites never work. The likely consequences of the Swedish prohibition of prostitution will be that: a) prohibitionists feel very pleased with themselves, which of course is most important, and b) prostitution is driven deeper underground, so that yet even more middle masseuses will be controlled by violent pimps. How wonderful.

- Kevin Myers

Irish Independent

Phill Ewinn

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

orourkeda wrote: »

Is that them in coppers

riding for money = bad. riding in coppers = grand. mad world

philologos

^^ Kevin Myers or no Kevin Myers the Swedish approach has had demonstrable results in combatting human trafficking. I consider that to be better for society at large than leaving the system the way it is.

Badgermonkey

jimmynokia wrote: »

TRY keep it on a mature level we are talking female gardai posing as street walkers.

Good poll James

starviewadams

Good to crack down on kerb crawlers every now and then,cousin of mine had a flat near Smithfield and her and her flatmate were often stopped by men in cars asking if she was ''looking for business'' as she was walking to town or the shops.

Scummy behaviour,so fair play to the Gardai for cracking down on these guys who exploit women with addiction etc for their own gratification.

PerrinV2

Female garda prostitutes?!!!

Pics or GTFO!!

dillo2k10

You have no opinion/undecided

Marguerite Tonery wrote: »

I find that a very degrading way to treat your fellow garda officer. If you dress women in attire that lures people to engage with them for prostitution, what is that saying about the way women are being treated in the Garda Siochana? There was a study done in the U.S. a number of years ago, where college students were given two roles in a prison setting, one half of the students were assigned the role of prisoners, the other half assigned the role of officers. This was a social psychology experiment. The experiment had to be stopped because the students who were assigned the role of officers became too violent towards their fellow students, whom they had perceived as less than them. I could see how this could go wrong. Would those officers who posed as prostitutes be seen in a lesser light by their colleagues (it happens, social psychology experiments have proven it), and if so are they open to harrassment and would they be less likely to be promoted than other female gardai who did not dress as prostitutes. The other thing to consider is this: Has this already affected the self-esteems of those officers who engaged in the garda operation? I believe that it will definitely have changed their outlook on the situation that exists for prostitutes and on men/women in general to some degree.

Im pretty sure that was just a film.

Badgermonkey

philologos wrote: »

^^ Kevin Myers or no Kevin Myers the Swedish approach has had demonstrable results in combatting human trafficking. I consider that to be better for society at large than leaving the system the way it is.

Demonstrable results of a reduction in trafficking as a result of the change in Swedish law would be somewhat difficult to measure imo. Would be interested to see that data.

Agreed current system is a nonsense. Thousands of sexual transactions take place in Ireland on a weekly basis, if we were a little more grown up about the issue, revenue would take its share.

InTheTrees

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Thousands of sexual transactions take place in Ireland on a weekly basis, if we were a little more grown up about the issue, revenue would take its share.

Maybe we could start a school?

the groutch

Should the gardai not target the vice dens instead?

this is straight-up (no pun intended) entrapment
they have no chance of getting a conviction this way.

TheBunk1

wallpaper-homer-simpson.jpg

"I want to set the record straight: I thought the cop was a prostitute....."

shinikins

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes, yet another law (like the age of consent law) which just serves to punish men

Sorry to burst your bubble but hte age of consent in Ireland is 17 for both sexes. No punishing of men there.

Marguerite Tonery wrote: »

I find that a very degrading way to treat your fellow garda officer. If you dress women in attire that lures people to engage with them for prostitution, what is that saying about the way women are being treated in the Garda Siochana?..........

These are obviously undercover Gardai-you couldn't just take a Garda off the beat and stick her in a short skirt and tell her to catch a few punters. They put themselves forward for a position in the undercover unit, and put themselves forward as undercover prostitutes. I don't see any overt sexism there, and I fail to see how a female Garda would be seen in a lesser light than her male counterparts.

I would say that the aim of the operation is to scare customers off. Its all about numbers, your bound to catch more passsing trade in a sting operation on a street corner than if they were surveilling one prostitute in an apartment. The more men they catch, the more coverage the operation gets. And more news coverage means fewer men will risk kerb crawling in case they are arrested.

Thatnastyboy

Worst poll... EVER!

The wool seems to be very much over a lot of peoples eyes on this,

Are people really that naiive that they think that one can quell the demand for prostitutes?

Its a very similar argument to the cannabis one,

there is a demand, there always will be,
there is a supply, there always will be.

The only thing that can change is how it's dealt with, and dressing coppers up down and dispplaying them on 'punting' websites and on street corners is not the way to do it.


In order for one to solicit sex, does the act not have to occur? could the customer not just say they were lonely and were willing to pay for companionship?


*edit:

Are people really that unaware of just how many prostitutes are operating in the country? and also how much money they are making?

philologos

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Demonstrable results of a reduction in trafficking as a result of the change in Swedish law would be somewhat difficult to measure imo. Would be interested to see that data.

Agreed current system is a nonsense. Thousands of sexual transactions take place in Ireland on a weekly basis, if we were a little more grown up about the issue, revenue would take its share.

There was a report published by the Swedish Government reviewing the law in 2010 over 10 years after it was introduced. Details are available on the Wikipedia entry if you want a brief synopsis.

Cú Giobach

BEASTERLY wrote: »

I don't see a problem with the tactics being used by the gardai. If they quell the demand the supply will stop.

Quell the demand for sex? Stop prostitution? I don't think so, all they will do is move it to a different area.

Phill Ewinn

Do you think its wrong for men to use escorts?

How many hookers pay tax in the state? None I'd say. How many trafficed hookers get caught by customs? Again I'd say none. Pretty much using the gards to fill in for inadequacies elsewhere IMO.