3rd class degree and traineeship

page1

Hi, I have a third class/pass degree in business and legal studies from UCD.
I have over 8 years business experience. I have passed the FE-1's and am seeking the elusive traineeship. I feel my poor academic record is turning companies off.

I'm 33 and was very naive and foolish in college and didn't put any effort in.
I don't feel it is an accurate reflection of my academic ability.

I am looking for advice on whether it would be worthwhile to undertake another course with the goal of gaining better results.

I enjoy studying so that aspect would be fine but I would have to consider the financial commitment and time restraints - the course would have to be part time/ distance learning as I would need to work and I have 3 small children.

Can anyone recommend a course, afaik I can't do a masters as I need a 2.1.
Any advice would be much appreciated.

smcgiff

page1 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a course, afaik I can't do a masters as I need a 2.1.
Any advice would be much appreciated.

Not necessarily so - don't know specifically about the legal profession, but in other areas at least experience helps. Getting a 2.1 is usually for those going straight from a degree to Masters. Would be surprised if your degree classificaiton would hold you back at 33, as long as you give a good interview.

Good luck

page1

Thanks smcgiff. I was hoping my experience would stand to me but most companies seem more interested in graduates with high grades. I know I perform well in interviews ( recent interview - not for a traineeship- I got great feedback and was told by the 4 people interviewing me I was outstanding) but I can't even get an interview.

I must ring around about the masters and see if they only accept a 2.1

smcgiff

page1 wrote: »

Thanks smcgiff. I was hoping my experience would stand to me but most companies seem more interested in graduates with high grades. I know I perform well in interviews ( recent interview - not for a traineeship- I got great feedback and was told by the 4 people interviewing me I was outstanding) but I can't even get an interview.

I must ring around about the masters and see if they only accept a 2.1

Howdy,

Should clarify - I meant for entry into the Masters.

I imagine if your highest degree qualificaiton is a 3rd then it would cause pause. Getting a Masters to show you've matured may be a good idea. I imagine there are a lot of degree 1.1s looking for positions.

itsshowtime

Hi All,
I just joined boards this evening to search for a similar thread as this as I was hoping to get some advice on a related topic. So here goes!
Over three years ago I decided to go back to college on a part-time basis to complete an LLB in Law. Prior to this I felt that my career was lacking direction and I was going from job to job. Secondly, a legal career was something that interested me.
I completed my final exams in May and received the results in July which was a third class honours. I was numb as I never expected to achieve a first but I certainly didn’t expect a third either. I have asked myself the same question over and over, why me? I always attended class, took the notes, read the books and done the course work. The only explanations that I can fadom are that I couldn’t apply the legal principle to the facts. Secondly, my course work was on par with the other students but when it came to the exam setting I got murdered with nerves.
I have since spoken with both career guidance people and lecturers at the college and found their advice to be absolutely useless. My family have tried console me and told me not to beat myself up but it’s easy saying that as I am the one who has to bare this cross.
It is so frustrating to think that I sacrificed three years of my life in an attempt to put myself in a position where I am a more employable candidate and I might as well of not bothered. No graduate employer wants to touch me with a barge pole as I don’t meet the 2.1 requirement and if I want to redeem myself with a post grad option I am below the 2.2 minimum. I might as well forget about FE'1 as legal firms only want graduates with academic excellence. I don’t know how the hell I am going to explain this in an interview setting or convince a potential employer that they should employ me.
I’ve read blogs where employers think graduates who have third class degrees are dim, stupid or somewhat lacking. I consider myself to be none of the above.
I have my graduation in November and right now I am considering not going in fear that anyone hears that I scored a low mark. I feel embarrassed, ashamed of myself and very unhappy as my dreams and aspirations are gone.
If there is anyone out there who has experienced similar or can advise on how to move on from this, I’d appreciate your advice.

Kindest regards,

itsshowtime

McCrack

People relax, the bigger firms require a 2.1 simply as a means to filter (indiscriminately) the large no of applicants.

If you want to train in one of these firms then your chances are slim to none.

If you are prepared to train in a medium to small practice then not having a 2.1 will not make a blind bit of difference.

To the OP I would not recommend pursing a masters, they are 10 a penny. I would suggest you and anybody else seeking a training contact obtain work experience in legal offices and that might mean giving your services for free. That will open doors for you.

Good luck.

mrs vimes

itsshowtime wrote: »

I always attended class, took the notes, read the books and done the course work. The only explanations that I can fadom are that I couldn’t apply the legal principle to the facts. Secondly, my course work was on par with the other students but when it came to the exam setting I got murdered with nerves.
I have since spoken with both career guidance people and lecturers at the college and found their advice to be absolutely useless. My family have tried console me and told me not to beat myself up but it’s easy saying that as I am the one who has to bare this cross.

Hi itsshowtime,

There are very few traineeships on offer this year and employers are being as fussy as they like. I know several solicitors firms who would bin a CV with gramatical errors immediately.

Law is one of those areas where a good level of written English and a particular attention to detail are very important both in college and in work.

I wish you the best of luck in your efforts to find a traineeship.

Nolanger

mrs vimes wrote: »

I know several solicitors firms who would bin a CV with gramatical errors immediately.

You've been binned!

mrs vimes

Nolanger wrote: »

You've been binned!

All mistakes deliberate unless otherwise stated

itsshowtime

omg!! do you just float around here giving abuse. Here's a suggestion, get a grip or better still get some mates. oh!! I forgot you probably dont have any mates becases you come across as a nasty **** who takes comfort out of others misfortune. your parents must be so proud.

partyguinness

The 3rd does not necessarily mean you can't do a Master's. Most colleges take other experience into account.

You mentioned 8 years business experience. Emphasis that and it will be taken into account and you will be surprised. Plus colleges are not going to throw away guaranteed 5-6k fees.

Having on your cv actual legal experience working in a firm would serve you alot better than pursuing an LLM at this stage.

Getting the experience is the problem. Firms are just not recruiting. Try getting unpaid admin work but very difficult market out there.

Surely you must have built up some contacts when in business?

blueythebear

itsshowtime wrote: »

omg!! do you just float around here giving abuse. Here's a suggestion, get a grip or better still get some mates. oh!! I forgot you probably dont have any mates becases you come across as a nasty **** who takes comfort out of others misfortune. your parents must be so proud.

The tenor of this post suggests that a pass degree is the least of your worries in obtaining a traineeship.

Bottom line is that you can probably forget about training with a Big 5 firm unless you know somebody in there. Nepotism does go a long way in these firms.

Other than this, as has been said, experience is key. Volunteer with FLAC or volunteer in a local solicitor's office to get experience.

A poor grade makes things a little more difficult yes, but always remember that good social skills are actually just as important as being good academically when working in the legal field.

itsshowtime

Hi Partyguinness & blueythebear, thanks so much for your kind words, its very much appreciated.

partyguinness

If is any consolation, I got a 3rd BCL in 2000. I just drank and played football for 3 years and never even made a full week of lectures in 3 years. Not pround of that. I deserved the mark.

But I got work experienec that summer, studied my ass and got 8 FE-1s in one sitting (I had realised that the 3rd rules out applying for the bigger firms). Got my training contract, qualified 7 years ago. I have since got a 2.1 LLB and 1st LLM while working full time.

I accept it is tougher now and it is. I was looking at a time when offices were actually advertising for Trainees in the Irish Times!!!! Yes hard to imagine there was such a time back in 2001 and I ended up with 3 choices....they were not so called big 10 firms. I was more appreciated and got far better experience. My friends in big firms just felt like nameless admin staff and hated it and got pigeon holed so they had to stay working in Dublin.

So just hang in there

itsshowtime

Partyguinness, your an absolute gentleman thanks so much for the feedback. I wont kill myself over it but I have to hurt before I heal. Im glad that there are nice people out there that can relate to my situation. Ah the good old days I remember them well. When you could get two pints and change out of a fiver lol.

McCrack

itsshowtime wrote: »

omg!! do you just float around here giving abuse. Here's a suggestion, get a grip or better still get some mates. oh!! I forgot you probably dont have any mates becases you come across as a nasty **** who takes comfort out of others misfortune. your parents must be so proud.

I think you should take time out and mature. That comment is unwarranted.

mrs vimes was offering valid advice to you regarding grammatical accuracy particularly when applying to law firms where such skills are so important.

Marcusm

itsshowtime wrote: »

omg!! do you just float around here giving abuse. Here's a suggestion, get a grip or better still get some mates. oh!! I forgot you probably dont have any mates becases you come across as a nasty **** who takes comfort out of others misfortune. your parents must be so proud.

If you want to train as a solicitor you're going to need to learn to pause, assess the situation and compose yourself before biting back. Some firms will see your work experience as an advantage, others will put you in a different box. If you acted/reacted in this manner in a professional situation, I would probably have you out of the firm within the hour.

You need to understand that a professional firm and a web forum have some similarities, bite back against someone who s extending some advice and you're likely to exclude yourself.

itsshowtime

Jesus are you guys for real, seriously. I come here seeking some advise re my situation and I firstly get insulted and I dont reply. Next another person adds their five pence and the first guy/girl posts their response to to that again. Then when I react, the bandwagon fills up and everyone jumps down my throat. Are you guys for real, do you really think I am going to sit here and listen to insults. Constructive criticism I will take but insults I wont.

FreudianSlippers

Nobody has insulted you. I think this thread has run its course.