Attic Insulation?

LaVail

I know very little about this sort of thing so bear with me. I am currently living in a bungalow and I notice up in the attic that there is no insulation what so ever, the ceiling slab is all thats there

The house is freezing and when I put on a fire the heat just rises and is whipped out through the vents in the attic.

I obviously need some sort of fibre glass insulation (rockwool?) but dont know what thickness I should get or if I should do two passes, one in either direction?

Can anyone here advise me what to do, and how much per roll it would cost? (the cheaper the roll the better )

Thanks

gsxr1

you need 2 layers of 150mm fiber glass.

1st layer in between the ceiling joist.

2nd layer layed like a blanket over the first.

Measure the area of your attic. It will probably be the same area as the 1st floor.

call everyone in the yellow pages. Quotes vary alot and if you are doing a whole price you will get a good deal.

LaVail

gsxr1 wrote: »

you need 2 layers of 150mm fiber glass.

1st layer in between the ceiling joist.

2nd layer layed like a blanket over the first.

Measure the area of your attic. It will probably be the same area as the 1st floor.

call everyone in the yellow pages. Quotes vary alot and if you are doing a whole price you will get a good deal.

Thanks for the info gsxr1

Thought as much I would need 2 layers.. The house is roughly 33feet x 55 feet. Will it cost 100's or 1000's do you think?

gsxr1

LaVail wrote: »

Thanks for the info gsxr1

Thought as much I would need 2 layers.. The house is roughly 33feet x 55 feet. Will it cost 100's or 1000's do you think?

i cant remember. i would guess at some where in between. does not take long to pay for itself against winter heating bills. keeps the home cooler in summer days as well.

LaVail

gsxr1 wrote: »

i cant remember. i would guess at some where in between. does not take long to pay for itself against winter heating bills. keeps the home cooler in summer days as well.

Will ring up a few places tomorrow and get some prices, like you say it should pay for itself in a few years, spent ~€1000 on heating last winter and the house was still freezing :eek:

Thanks again for the help.

Spread

Just under €3000 I imagine. You'll get a grant AFAIK. Just ring around with the square footage and they should quote you over the phone. Put on an authoritative voice

Avns1s

You could always buy the rolls and lay it yourself. However, its not the most pleasant of all jobs.

Measure the depth of the joists. They are possibly 100mm (4") as its a bungalow. If they are 100mm then the first layer should be 100mm fibreglass or rockwool. In this instance, the second layer should be 200mm (8") giving 300mm (12") overall.

If the joist depth is 150mm, then 2 layers of 150mm.

LaVail

Spread wrote: »

Just under €3000 I imagine. You'll get a grant AFAIK. Just ring around with the square footage and they should quote you over the phone. Put on an authoritative voice

3k for a few rolls of fibreglass? I hope not :eek:
I was looking into the grants before but I dont think I can avail of it.

Avns1s wrote: »

You could always buy the rolls and lay it yourself. However, its not the most pleasant of all jobs.

Measure the depth of the joists. They are possibly 100mm (4") as its a bungalow. If they are 100mm then the first layer should be 100mm fibreglass or rockwool. In this instance, the second layer should be 200mm (8") giving 300mm (12") overall.

If the joist depth is 150mm, then 2 layers of 150mm.

Yeah i'd be hoping that I could buy the roll's and do the job myself..Im not bothered by working with the stuff because I have a few mask's and overall's and the like so at least I wouldnt be itched to death over it. I must head up in the attic later on and measure the depth of the joists so Ill have a better Idea of where I stand.

Thanks lads

dnme

Look;, wait up for the next Homebase 15% off weekend, they are fairly regular, then go in and buy a roll of insulation (somewhere between 12 and 20 quid), bring it home and lay it up yourself. This will give you an idea of the price and whether you want to do the job yourself or not.

IMO do it yourself, you'll sweat like crazy up there but that in itself is real good for ya. Wear a good breather mask, long marigold gloves and old clothes. As soon as you come down, hop in the shower and put your clothes in the wash. Just be VERY careful up there, best bring up a couple of pieces of plywood to rest/kneel on.

Spread

LaVail wrote: »

3k for a few rolls of fibreglass? I hope not :eek:
I was looking into the grants before but I dont think I can avail of it.
Thanks lads

You've got 169 M2 and they charge about €15 per M2. That works out at just over €2,500.

DIY = 25 X 2 rolls at about €20 per roll

You save a lot for a Saturday's work

LaVail

dnme wrote: »

Look;, wait up for the next Homebase 15% off weekend, they are fairly regular, then go in and buy a roll of insulation (somewhere between 12 and 20 quid), bring it home and lay it up yourself. This will give you an idea of the price and whether you want to do the job yourself or not.

IMO do it yourself, you'll sweat like crazy up there but that in itself is real good for ya. Wear a good breather mask, long marigold gloves and old clothes. As soon as you come down, hop in the shower and put your clothes in the wash. Just be VERY careful up there, best bring up a couple of pieces of plywood to rest/kneel on.

Spread wrote: »

You've got 169 M2 and they charge about €15 per M2. That works out at just over €2,500.

DIY = 25 rolls at about €20 per roll

You save a lot for a Saturday's work

wow the boys going around putting it in are making a nice few bob for their days work, €15 per M2 seems saucy but I suppose they have to put bread on the table too.

After seeing all of the above Ill definitely be doing this myself as €12-€20 per roll isnt going to break the bank and ill have it thrown in there in the bones of a day and hopefully it'll pay off when we have our next cold winter which if our weather is anything to go by will be here before the end of August

Cheers

heinbloed

You've sensed the bait, LaVail.
B&Q has the brochures for free, how to meassure, how to install. And the staff there isn't complete nuts as well.

Your 180m2 will be less than €1,000 to do on a DIY base.

Check also the local library for DIY books,plenty of hints there - for free.

gsxr1

the deals in B&Q can be beaten by you local provider in this climate. Summer time .. they dont sell that much of it now. I dont think b&q type place sell the big 4' rolls either. Im not against the big DIY centers, I just remember my exboss talking about much better deals elsewhere.

I have done it in a few houses. Its a horrible job. Masks , a few disposable suits and gloves help. A few knee pads are handy to have up there as well .

reilig

Definitely try a local builder's providers before buying from B & Q. You should be able to save at least 20% on B&Q's prices - and you will be able to bargain with them.

LaVail

gsxr1 wrote: »

the deals in B&Q can be beaten by you local provider in this climate. Summer time .. they dont sell that much of it now. I dont think b&q type place sell the big 4' rolls either. Im not against the big DIY centers, I just remember my exboss talking about much better deals elsewhere.

I have done it in a few houses. Its a horrible job. Masks , a few disposable suits and gloves help. A few knee pads are handy to have up there as well .

reilig wrote: »

Definitely try a local builder's providers before buying from B & Q. You should be able to save at least 20% on B&Q's prices - and you will be able to bargain with them.

Just got quoted €460 for 25 roll's from the local building supplies centre, it started off at €22 per roll but came down to under €18.50 per roll when I told him I wanted enough to cover about 170 M2

Im thinking of going with this because I doubt Ill be able to get it cheaper else where. Ill ring a few more places just to be sure though.

dnme

LaVail wrote: »

Just got quoted €460 for 25 roll's from the local building supplies centre, it started off at €22 per roll but came down to under €18.50 per roll when I told him I wanted enough to cover about 170 M2

Im thinking of going with this because I doubt Ill be able to get it cheaper else where. Ill ring a few more places just to be sure though.

€18.50 is pricy for this time of year, trust me. You're in no hurry as you still have 3 -4 months of summer left. Bide your time, keep an eye on the big stores, they often have sales on this stuff, recently Homebase had this stuff here in Sligo on special for 13 quid a roll. Keep an eye on donedeal.ie and adverts.ie aswell. You can save some cash here if you take your time.

derealbadger

if you do this your self baby powder is your new best friend cover your self in it first stops the fibers from sticking to your skin also get white disposable suit and gloves and tape at the joints same with the bottom tape to your socks good luck with it

mfceiling

derealbadger wrote: »

if you do this your self baby powder is your new best friend cover your self in it first stops the fibers from sticking to your skin also get white disposable suit and gloves and tape at the joints same with the bottom tape to your socks good luck with it

This is brilliant advice - believe me when i tell you that the baby powder works like magic!!

If you are in dublin OP then give Uvalue a bell (blanchardstown) - they specialise in insulation, boards etc - even call out to them and get some info from them (totally free, as are the brochures and cups of tea!!).

I deal with them a good bit and they are decent lads and are fairly clued in with insulation and the products associated with it.

Spread

LaVail wrote: »

Just got quoted €460 for 25 roll's from the local building supplies centre, it started off at €22 per roll but came down to under €18.50 per roll when I told him I wanted enough to cover about 170 M2

Im thinking of going with this because I doubt Ill be able to get it cheaper else where. Ill ring a few more places just to be sure though.

You'll need two layers ......... 25 M2 floor

If there already is a 4" layer in situ, then you'll need another 8".

If I've understood correctly then you'll need 50 rolls.

You'll still come out quids in. Good luck.

Buford T Justice

I calculate that you need about 320 square meters of 150mm insulation as you'll be doing two layers.

Afaik, brooks charge in the region of €17.50 incl vat for loftwool 150mm insulation, and each roll is about 6.5 square meters. Prices will vary so its worth telling them how much you're looking for.

You're looking at about 50 rolls, which works out at around €875

Kristopherus

Go for Knauff Space Blanket, available in Homebase. As others have said, the regularly have sales and other offers. The big advantage with Space Blanket is that it is enclosed in a sleeve so will not cause irritation. I did this in a similar sized house to the OP in January 2009, with Space Blanket. Got it in Homebase over the post Xmas period. Luckily they had a 50% off sale on the Sat/Sun after Xmas. So what I saw for €13.50 a roll was eventually reduced to €6.50:D. Put 300mm all over the attic except under the water tank. You fill the space between the joists first, and then lay the top layer on top running at right angls to the original lay. You should also allow about 2ins gap at the eaves as this will allow ventilation. If you do it yourself, follow the advice of the others, and be aware that you will sweat gallons up there. Best time to do it would be late Sept/early Oct. I was lucky in that Jan 2009 was very mild:). Cost of materials came in at just under €700.00. Have reaped the benefit of it already what with the 2 hard winters we've had !!!

LaVail

Spread wrote: »

You'll need two layers ......... 25 M2 floor

If there already is a 4" layer in situ, then you'll need another 8".

If I've understood correctly then you'll need 50 rolls.

You'll still come out quids in. Good luck.

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I calculate that you need about 320 square meters of 150mm insulation as you'll be doing two layers.

Afaik, brooks charge in the region of €17.50 incl vat for loftwool 150mm insulation, and each roll is about 6.5 square meters. Prices will vary so its worth telling them how much you're looking for.

You're looking at about 50 rolls, which works out at around €875

When I rang the builders supplies I told them I wanted 150mm and he still said I only needed 25 roll's so not sure where I stand now... Would it be a waste of time just putting down one layer or will I need to put 2 down to get the full benefit? There is nothing at all up in the attic, just the ceiling slab's.

Kristopherus wrote: »

Go for Knauff Space Blanket, available in Homebase. As others have said, the regularly have sales and other offers. The big advantage with Space Blanket is that it is enclosed in a sleeve so will not cause irritation. I did this in a similar sized house to the OP in January 2009, with Space Blanket. Got it in Homebase over the post Xmas period. Luckily they had a 50% off sale on the Sat/Sun after Xmas. So what I saw for €13.50 a roll was eventually reduced to €6.50:D. Put 300mm all over the attic except under the water tank. You fill the space between the joists first, and then lay the top layer on top running at right angls to the original lay. You should also allow about 2ins gap at the eaves as this will allow ventilation. If you do it yourself, follow the advice of the others, and be aware that you will sweat gallons up there. Best time to do it would be late Sept/early Oct. I was lucky in that Jan 2009 was very mild:). Cost of materials came in at just under €700.00. Have reaped the benefit of it already what with the 2 hard winters we've had !!!

Never heard of the space blanket so might look into it when I head into town the next day, nice price you got it for too! I must do a bit more shopping around this weekend to see where I can get it the cheapest. I swore last winter that i'd do it this year because I nearly died with the cold and draughts, kept lighting fires and burned turf and coal like there was no tomorrow but it didnt matter because all the heat was escaping through the roof. If I end up paying €500-€800 I wont mind because Im bound to save on the heating this year. Spent €1000-€1200 on fuel last winter and I might as well have just set fire to the money itself for all the good it did me.

Thanks for all the help and advice lads, Ill keep ye posted to let ye know how its coming along

paddy147

170 and 200mm loft insulation is 3 quid a roll in the UK.

Thanks very much to david cameron so.:D

LaVail

paddy147 wrote: »

170 and 200mm loft insulation is 3 quid a roll in the UK.

Thanks very much to david cameron so.:D

wow! there's something not right when its £3 over there and nearly €20 here, and they say things were never as cheap in Ireland :rolleyes:

paddy147

LaVail wrote: »

wow! there's something not right when its £3 over there and nearly €20 here, and they say things were never as cheap in Ireland :rolleyes:

Theres a big goverment push in the Uk for all UK homes to be made greener and more energy effiecent.

Wickes and Focus (Focus are now just gone bust) were more or less giving the insulation away,It was going that cheap.Philips 11W CFL bulbs for 50 pence.

I have relations in the UK,so it was very handy for me to get this insulation at that price.:D

LaVail

paddy147 wrote: »

Theres a big goverment push in the Uk for all UK homes to be made greener and more energy effiecent.

Wickes and Focus (Focus are now just gone bust) were more or less giving the insulation away,It was going that cheap.Philips 11W CFL bulbs for 50 pence.

I have relations in the UK,so it was very handy for me to get this insulation at that price.:D

The same thing is going on here sure with the warmer homes scheme but if you dont get the grant you are left out in the cold (pardon the pun)

Hopefully I can get it a bit cheaper than the €18.50 quoted

the_syco

DO NOT BLOCK YOUR VENTS

Be careful not to block the vents in the attic.

See the first two pictures here. The person who did insulated our attic blocked up the vents, and caused problems for us at a later date, so check to ensure you don't do likewise.

DublinDilbert

If money is tight at the minute just pop down one layer, you'll notice a big improvement coming from having none down.

The second layer is very easy to put down, goes in very quickly...

Kristopherus

LaVail wrote: »

The same thing is going on here sure with the warmer homes scheme but if you dont get the grant you are left out in the cold (pardon the pun)

Hopefully I can get it a bit cheaper than the €18.50 quoted

And if you do get the grant, watch how the installer's fees shoot up. Robbin' b**tards:mad:

LaVail

the_syco wrote: »

DO NOT BLOCK YOUR VENTS

Be careful not to block the vents in the attic.

See the first two pictures here. The person who did insulated our attic blocked up the vents, and caused problems for us at a later date, so check to ensure you don't do likewise.

Yeah a few people told me to be careful not to block the vents, there's gap's all over the place up there though and a lot of wind is getting in..Sometimes on a very windy day the attic cover is flapping and banging mad. Im going to cover in some of the gaps but Ill leave some to keep it vented.

Kristopherus wrote: »

And if you do get the grant, watch how the installer's fees shoot up. Robbin' b**tards:mad:

Thats always the case, rip off Ireland in full flight.. No wonder we're in the hole that we are.

ballysheil

If you have the ability to troll up to the north you can buy this insulation very cheaply compared to here. Check out b&q online etc to get an idea.

AMG86

When putting in the insulation make sure that the first layer is reasonably tight against the rafters i.e. that there are no gaps. When laying the second layer again make sure that the rows are very close to each other. As other guys have said watch the ventilation piece.

If you do the job yourself you will not get the grant.

slimjimmc

AMG86 wrote: »

When putting in the insulation make sure that the first layer is reasonably tight against the rafters i.e. that there are no gaps. When laying the second layer again make sure that the rows are very close to each other. As other guys have said watch the ventilation piece.

If you do the job yourself you will not get the grant.

Yeah, but since the grant is only €200 it's not much of an incentive to pay a lot extra for a registered contractor to do the work if you can do it yourself.
http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Better_energy_homes/homeowner/What_Grants_Are_Available/

looksee

The other alternative is blown in insulation. Much quicker and therefore cheaper as it does not cost anywhere near as much for labour. We had it done and it was accepted for BER cert.

runawaybishop

Just do it yourself and look up north to buy, rolls are pretty cheap up there (about 5 yoyo on sale) - 12 inches is pretty much the minimum you need if i remember right. Don't forget to leave a space under your water tank so it doesn't freeze in the winter.

edit: 3 GBP on b+q website and they are pre-cut which saves a bit of work - they can be limited per customer though.

para45

Ye as mentioned above me go up north if yuo can . B&Q Newry do massive specials . They have 5.5sqm at 200mm for £3 . 3 rolls in a pack precut

I used it before and does the job . Only problem is you need some space like a van or a trailer to make it worth your while.

I think the limit is 100 sqm but you just get a buddy to go with you and he buys his 100 also

dnme

para45 wrote: »

Ye as mentioned above me go up north if yuo can . B&Q Newry do massive specials . They have 5.5sqm at 200mm for £3 . 3 rolls in a pack precut

I used it before and does the job . Only problem is you need some space like a van or a trailer to make it worth your while.

I think the limit is 100 sqm but you just get a buddy to go with you and he buys his 100 also

paddy147 wrote: »

170 and 200mm loft insulation is 3 quid a roll in the UK.

Thanks very much to david cameron so.:D

On the Homebase website, they have this insulation on offer for £3 a roll. However these offers don't seem to apply to N.Ireland. I just rang Homebase in Omagh, They told me that they have no offers on insulation. That particular Carbon Zero product is £15 in their store and anyway they do not have it in stock.

runawaybishop

If you check around you should find some on offer - I know for a fact that in the past you could buy rolls very cheaply.

paddy147

dnme wrote: »

On the Homebase website, they have this insulation on offer for £3 a roll. However these offers don't seem to apply to N.Ireland. I just rang Homebase in Omagh, They told me that they have no offers on insulation. That particular Carbon Zero product is £15 in their store and anyway they do not have it in stock.

Well I got a shed load (and I mean a shed load) of the stuff brought over from the UK from Focus DIY (now gone bust) and also Wickes.

3 quid a roll.:D

Build4less.ie

Lavail if you like I can supply you with 25 rolls of Moy attic insulation for €400 incl delivery.

Build4less

Build4less.ie

LaVail wrote: »

Yeah a few people told me to be careful not to block the vents, there's gap's all over the place up there though and a lot of wind is getting in..Sometimes on a very windy day the attic cover is flapping and banging mad. Im going to cover in some of the gaps but Ill leave some to keep it vented.



Thats always the case, rip off Ireland in full flight.. No wonder we're in the hole that we are.

Lavail if you like I can supply you with 25 rolls of Moy attic insulation for €400 incl delivery.

Build4less

LaVail

Had a few bits going on the last couple of weeks so nearly forgot about this thread. We are now in the process of getting the grant for the insulation. Thought we wouldn't qualify a while back but now it seems we will. All the guys fitting it provide the insulation themselves so all my bargain hunting may have been for nothing

Still handy to have this thread as a reference though in case it falls through.

Build4less.ie wrote: »

Lavail if you like I can supply you with 25 rolls of Moy attic insulation for €400 incl delivery.

Build4less

Thanks for the quote but looks like we'll qualify for the grant. Will keep you in mind if it doesnt go through

CtrlSource

Hi all,

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread (",) - Will start a separate one, if needed.

Relatives have a bungalow that needs further insulation in its attic space.

The house has a double pitched roof and there are two separate attics. The first attic is straightforward with timber beams, joists etc., that rolls of insulation could be laid down between in the standard way.

However, the second pitched roof is erected over a part reinforced concrete, part felt roof that forms the floor of the second attic (garage and extensions that previous owners decided to build a pitched roof over).

If rockwool insulation was laid directly over a concrete or felt floor, could problems with condensation and / or ventilation arise? They have a quote from a fitter to lay 300mm rockwool over the entire, but I don't think they've question him about the concrete bit. Just something I was wondering about...

Any advice greatly appreciated.

eamon11

hi Folks,

I am in the process of doing the same but the house is 32 years old an has some fiberglass already in place. It yellow an old at this stage. I dont know when it was put there as I have recently bought the house.
Anyway, my question is should I remove and discard this, or should I just roll my new insulation over it?

Thanks a lot,
Eamon

Build4less.ie

I would recommend you remove the insulation that is there and replace it with some new insulation. Insulation only has a shelf life of around 10-15 years and would generally need to be replaced after that as it looses its insulation properties.

Look up "Moy Isover Insulation" in google and you will find suppliers for insulation there.

Kind regards
Build4less

heinbloed

Build4less.ie wrote:

Insulation only has a shelf life of around 10-15 years and would generally need to be replaced after that as it looses its insulation properties.

Where did you find this information, Build4less.ie ?

Build4less.ie

heinbloed wrote: »

Build4less.ie wrote:



Where did you find this information, Build4less.ie ?

This would be information that is pretty well know within the industry. Most insulation on the market will only perform form a certain period of time and it will need to be replaced and this goes with PIR insulation aswell.

What happens is is that the glasswool insulation begins compact as gravity begins to take its toll. Once glasswool begins to compact it looses its insulation properties as it needs its fullness to perform to the best. That is why your are always told never to compact insulation into a space as once you begin to squeeze the insulation its no good. Also as the insulation ages it also becomes less flexible in itself and becomes more brital and is easier to pull apart. In effect it looks and feels as if the insulation has lost life and is no longer full or flexible. With that comes its loss in insulation values.

heinbloed

I don't believe a single word, Build4less.ie, please publish some links to official or private web pages or literature to convince me/us.

All mineral wool MUST be compacted so far that a 'gravity compaction/sagging' is avoided. This is done in the factory (bats,felts) or on-site by applying the recommended kg/m3.

Build4less.ie

heinbloed wrote: »

I don't believe a single word, Build4less.ie, please publish some links to official or private web pages or literature to convince me/us.

All mineral wool MUST be compacted so far that a 'gravity compaction/sagging' is avoided. This is done in the factory (bats,felts) or on-site by applying the recommended kg/m3.

Sure just go up to any attic that is 10 years or more old and you will see for yourself. Factory compaction will not prevent compaction of the glasswool or mineral wool forever. Even rockwool starts to loose its freshness as soon as it comes off the production line and that is a known fact but it takes many years before you can see this deterioration.

Why is it that old glasswool insulation is being thrown out of attics all over the country and replaced with new glasswool insulation. The old insulation can be left in the attic it wont do any harm but its is nowhere near as effective as the new insulation that has been put in its place. Mainly because the glasswool has compacted significantly to less that half its thickness and the insulation only works its best when it is at its full thickness.

If standard glasswool cannot compact because it is factory compressed then why is that standard glasswool should not be used in timberframe walls? Its because it will sag due to gravity and its own weight. Exactly the same thing happens in an attic.

Build4less

heinbloed

.....and still no links?

Sure the installation of mineral wool has to be done correctly. As any other material installation.
Blowing shredded mineral wool onto a floor (attic) is a dubious method, sagging can't be avoided this way.
Sagging has to be taken into acount, therefore a certain mass has to be applied(kg/m2) to achieve the wanted result.

Build4less.ie

heinbloed wrote: »

.....and still no links?

Sure the installation of mineral wool has to be done correctly. As any other material installation.
Blowing shredded mineral wool onto a floor (attic) is a dubious method, sagging can't be avoided this way.
Sagging has to be taken into acount, therefore a certain mass has to be applied(kg/m2) to achieve the wanted result.

heinbloed have you ever installed insulation before I doubt it. Have you ever held new insulation in your hand I doubt it.

If you try to compact glasswool insulation straight out of its wrapper it will just return back to its original state (fluffy). When the insulation is in its wrapper it is squeezed tight to eliminate transport costs to reduce the size of the roll. As soon as you open the packaging it expands immediately to its intended size so trying to compress this material on-site when it has been compressed in its packaging fr possibly months is funny to be honest.

Never ever do you compress glasswool insulation once you do this you loose its properties. Sure why buy 200mm insulation if you are going to compress it to 150mm why not just buy 150mm insulation cause the 200mm compressed to 150mm will only do the job as 150mm insulation.