Definition of "Landlocked"?

InTheTrees

I've been having some discussion with some americans about what "landlocked" means, in relation to a State or Country.

Specifically we've bickered over Pennsylvania, which I maintain is landlocked and Connetecut.

But there's other grey areas such as some of the eastern canadian provinces on the st.lawrence.

SO I thought I'd throw myself on the collective wisdom of Geography boardsies!

Eathrin

Pennsylvania is landlocked as lake Erie is closed off from the ocean and the rest of its borders are all on land.
Same goes for any lake or sea which is closed off completely.

Connetecut however is not landlocked as I believe one of its borders touches the atlantic ocean.

DeepSleeper

In my opinion, if a state/county/country touches tidal water, then it isn't landlocked.

Connecticut has a coastline on Long Island Sound and I think Pennsylvania touches a long tidal section of the Delaware River...

InTheTrees

Cian A wrote: »

Pennsylvania is landlocked as lake Erie is closed off from the ocean and the rest of its borders are all on land.
Same goes for any lake or sea which is closed off completely.

Connetecut however is not landlocked as I believe one of its borders touches the atlantic ocean.

No it doesnt have a border with the atlantic. Long Island is to the south and east and Rhode Island is to the east.

But I would have though "political" borders wouldn't be a factor but the fact that it has a hundred miles of salt water shoreline would mean it isnt landlocked.

Eathrin

InTheTrees wrote: »

No it doesnt have a border with the atlantic. Long Island is to the south and east and Rhode Island is to the east.

But I would have though "political" borders wouldn't be a factor but the fact that it has a hundred miles of salt water shoreline would mean it isnt landlocked.

You wouldn't count the Sound as the Atlantic?

El Siglo

InTheTrees wrote:

But I would have though "political" borders wouldn't be a factor but the fact that it has a hundred miles of salt water shoreline would mean it isnt landlocked.

Political borders do matter, look at Austria.

Cian A wrote: »

You wouldn't count the Sound as the Atlantic?

I just had a look at it, and it's not landlocked. I mean it has a coastline, I know a marine geologist that has done work on sea-level change there so it's by no means landlocked in any sense of the word.

Eathrin

El Siglo wrote: »

I just had a look at it, and it's not landlocked. I mean it has a coastline, I know a marine geologist that has done work on sea-level change there so it's by no means landlocked in any sense of the word.

I know thats what I said

InTheTrees

I agree you really cant say Connecticut is landlocked.

Eathrin

I don't think anyone's arguing that Connecticut is not landlocked

The Pennsylvania one is interesting though. As Deepsleeper said, it touches the delaware river at a tidal point so does that indeed mean that it is not landlocked?

El Siglo

Cian A wrote: »

I don't think anyone's arguing that Connecticut is not landlocked

The Pennsylvania one is interesting though. As Deepsleeper said, it touches the delaware river at a tidal point so does that indeed mean that it is not landlocked?

Pennsylvania is landlocked, it has no coastline.

InTheTrees

But then we have Websters:

Definition of LANDLOCKED1
: enclosed or nearly enclosed by land <a landlocked country>

2
: confined to freshwater by some barrier <landlocked salmon>

3
: living or located away from the ocean <a landlocked sailor>


See landlocked defined for English-language learners »

See landlocked defined for kids »

El Siglo

InTheTrees wrote: »

But then we have Websters:

Definition of LANDLOCKED1
: enclosed or nearly enclosed by land <a landlocked country>

2
: confined to freshwater by some barrier <landlocked salmon>

3
: living or located away from the ocean <a landlocked sailor>


See landlocked defined for English-language learners »

See landlocked defined for kids »

I've a geography dictionary in my office, if I come across the "official" definition I'll post it up in the morning.

muckish

If you take the definition of being "landlocked" as having no coast (coast being bordering an Ocean), then both Pennslyvania and Conneticut are "Landlocked". But if you take the definition of being Landlocked as having no shoreline or no access to seaborne trade then both states are not landlocked.
This sounds like an argument that can be argued for and against, on both States geographical location.
If you apply the "coast definition" logic, then Dublin is a landlocked county as its shores onto the Irish sea and not the Atlantic Ocean.
So not sitting on the fence, IMO both Conneticut and Pennslyvania are not Landlocked.

InTheTrees

El Siglo wrote: »

I've a geography dictionary in my office, if I come across the "official" definition I'll post it up in the morning.

You're The Man.

As I was posting the webster definition I was thinking how inadequate it was.

El Siglo

This is from the Penguin Dictionary of Geography by Audrey N. Clark:

Landlocked adj. applied to an area (particularly a state) which lacks a sea coast and thus does not have direct access to the sea.

So, landlocked applies to a state (generally) and it does not have direct access to the sea or have a sea coast (never mind oceans, it's seas that count). Sorry muckish, you're incorrect on that assertion, Dublin isn't landlocked it has direct access to the Irish Sea and Pennslyvania is landlocked, regardless of whether the rivers become tidal it does not have direct access to the sea and it does not have a sea coast.

muckish

El Siglo wrote: »

This is from the Penguin Dictionary of Geography by Audrey N. Clark:


So, landlocked applies to a state (generally) and it does not have direct access to the sea or have a sea coast (never mind oceans, it's seas that count). Sorry muckish, you're incorrect on that assertion, Dublin isn't landlocked it has direct access to the Irish Sea and Pennslyvania is landlocked, regardless of whether the rivers become tidal it does not have direct access to the sea and it does not have a sea coast.

So what's the definition of coast and shore or coastline and shorelinein the dictionary as that could have a bearing on whether a state is landlocked or not.
Personally this is a debate that should take place in a pub as it looks like it could go on for hours. I'm thirsty already! I think it's a legal definition versus practical definition debate. But I will take the side that both states are not landlocked. I'll even throw in that the northern soreline on Lake Eerie of Penn State would negate it being landlocked on the basis that it's a shoreline and can allow for international trade.
Anyway as for Dublin, I'm not saying that it's landlocked at all, just taking the definition of being landlocked by shore/coast definition to the extreme and applying it to a riduculous scenario that's obviously not correct.

Eathrin

muckish wrote: »

So what's the definition of coast and shore or coastline and shorelinein the dictionary as that could have a bearing on whether a state is landlocked or not.
Personally this is a debate that should take place in a pub as it looks like it could go on for hours. I'm thirsty already! I think it's a legal definition versus practical definition debate. But I will take the side that both states are not landlocked. I'll even throw in that the northern soreline on Lake Eerie of Penn State would negate it being landlocked on the basis that it's a shoreline and can allow for international trade.
Anyway as for Dublin, I'm not saying that it's landlocked at all, just taking the definition of being landlocked by shore/coast definition to the extreme and applying it to a riduculous scenario that's obviously not correct.

Taking the definition from El Siglo you can forget about the lake. Kazakhstan is said to be landlocked despite having a massive shore on the Caspian sea.