Motion tabled to ban amplified buskers

lampsie

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0613/1224298811284.html

Interesting, was just talking about this a few days back...

Curious to hear other people's views on it. I'm all for busking in town, and I think it really adds something to walking up and down Shop street.

However, I've noticed a sharp rise in the number of buskers using amplification. Now, no real problem if you're the only busker at one end of Shop street, but add another amplified musician 100ft down the road, and suddenly you're both turning up to be heard. In the meantime, the couple of buskers who don't use amplification are drowned out completely, and the people who aren't enjoying your music are subjected to it for longer than they should be (screechy child in top hat & girl on guitar who are usually ensconced outside Brown Thomas, I'm looking at you).

Agree, disagree, or don't care? Am curious..

PS get off my lawn!

HardyEustace

I really hope this motion is passed. It is great to have so many buskers in town but the amplification just makes it a nuisance and an irritation.

I'd also like to see a realistic minimum age as well. I know the kids that you are talking about, and I don't think it's right to have small children of about seven or eight standing in shop street for hours on end. It's tantamount to child cruelty and neglect.

happyoutscan

I'd be happy to see the amplified buskers gone. Some are great, most are rubbish and it must be torture for the businesses who have them set up outside their premises.

M.Pool

I love the buskers on Shop street, it's such a part of Galway life. However I do agree that the amplifiers detract from the enjoyment. Put simply, they are too loud! Talked about this to a few shop workers and they are harassed by the noise especially if it's a busker they don't particularly enjoy.

biko

It's a good idea, it's not real busking imo if you have speakers etc.

dr.bollocko

Sing louder. Strum harder. Turn off the painful amps.

Discodog

Also it would cut out the "buskers" who have an elaborate backing tape that often makes it impossible to know if the "busker" is playing or not.

bigtuna

I would be happy to have the one that sings every weekend outside Vision Express silenced. He sings Zombie at least 4 times a night. Even with all the windows in my flat shut I can still hear him. Drives me mental. Could they introduce a ban on certain songs? That would be great

LadyMayBelle

Great. Ruins the art of busking having an amp in my opinion, plus it's well annoying. I can't see how any reputable busker in galway would even use one, knowing how annoying it is to passer bys and other musicians.

inisboffin

Hmm. Very interesting. I am particularly intrigued re the 'excluding festivals' caveat, seeing as nearly the entire summer/autumn is one back to back festival!

Having lived beside one of Galways 'ground zero' busking spot, AND having a load of musician friends who have/still busk, I still have mixed opinions on this. It's come up a few times on boards over the years.

Discodog wrote: »

Also it would cut out the "buskers" who have an elaborate backing tape that often makes it impossible to know if the "busker" is playing or not.

I often wonder if people can tell that it's a backing track with some of the people who are playing the same instrument as the track, yet only playing one in 5 notes!

bigtuna wrote: »

Could they introduce a ban on certain songs? That would be great

There was a lad who used to play under my window years ago, in retrospect, now I've moved, he was actually a really good musician but 'overdid' Van Morrisson beyond belief. To the point where I couldn't listen to Van for a couple of years:eek: Or this guy. I think if you work or live near a busking spot, any repetition whether voice or song can drive you mental after a while, no matter who it is.

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Great. Ruins the art of busking having an amp in my opinion, plus it's well annoying. I can't see how any reputable busker in galway would even use one, knowing how annoying it is to passer bys and other musicians.

TBH, instead of banning amps, I would WAY prefer they did what the do in other prime European busking spots - have a decibel limit. Portable little thingy that the Guards would have and if you go over a certain level, you are asked to stop/turn it down.
A couple of issues with banning amps only:

1. What about Brass and Drum circles? I know the hours law will really help for residents, but Sax, Trumpets, Drums etc will have free reign, no?
2. What about say Spanish/classical guitars? Again a decibel level would be fairer than a ban.

The buskers themselves know this is going on. Most with amps will always turn it down when asked, but there are a couple of a**holes who are rude to shop owners and give the rest a bad name. Apparently amps make more money. One particular band with electric instruments clean up, and they wouldn't do so without an amp due to what they play.

It's complicated I'd say. Some are busking for an extra few bob and a laugh, others do it, along with gigs, and that's their only income.
When the latter is the case, it only gets worse in the summer, when the non local buskers flood in with amps, and the only way to be heard and make a living, is with one. I don't agree that busking with an amp is not 'real' busking, for some it is survival.

I'd be more for a decibel ban than an amp ban, but agree it will only get worse over the summer
I wonder have the Council talked to the buskers at all?

inisboffin

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Sing louder. Strum harder. Turn off the painful amps.

Sometimes strumming louder is not necessarily better though. There's a lovely guy who used to do classical guitar, he *did* use an amp, but his busking would be lost without the amp.

And some instruments are just naturally louder, you can lightly strum a banjo and be way louder than a medium strum guitar.

Decibel monitors (there's probably a proper name for them, sorry:rolleyes:) is the way to go imo

Mr Keek

Hate the amplifers, especially the Pan Pipes guy you see in summer.

Really does ruin it for other buskers and the atmosphere on the nice quit streets of Galway.

inisboffin

Mr Keek wrote: »

Hate the amplifers, especially the Pan Pipes guy you see in summer.

Hee hee.

Mr Keek wrote: »

Really does ruin it for other buskers and the atmosphere on the nice quit streets of Galway.

Have you *been* here for Race week?

Fey!

I'm for banning the amps.

Where you have bands who rely on electrical instruments, maybe move them up to the square where there is space for the crowds they attract without blocking the place up completely, and away from where they are deafening people working in the shops.

If there are several bands, it could provide an excellent buzz around the square.

ciano1

From the Advertiser facebook:

I kid you not - one councillor tonight suggested that the gardai should be allowed to determine what is a good busker and a bad busker. Yes, Cllr Nuala wants the boys in blue to start X-Factor.

:pac:

ErnieBert

Buskers with amps are not buskers.

The lads with he banjos are excellent and don't have amps. The little lad with the top hat is so loud, that I avoid Easons if he is outside.

The guys with the panpipes are just playing karaoke to a CD.

inisboffin

ErnieBert wrote: »

Buskers with amps are not buskers.

.

Why do you think this? Not getting at you, but just wondering if people think electric instruments are not for busking and why?

One of the best buskers I ever saw in Europe sang African songs to an electric bass with a cube amp. He wasn't super loud, but used the amp for his bass.

Funk It

inisboffin wrote: »

Why do you think this? Not getting at you, but just wondering if people think electric instruments are not for busking and why?

One of the best buskers I ever saw in Europe sang African songs to an electric bass with a cube amp. He wasn't super loud, but used the amp for his bass.

I think that that may be the difference that they are referring to

inisboffin

Funk It wrote: »

I think that that may be the difference that they are referring to

Right. Then banning amps, like I said earlier, is not going to stop loud buskers. We'll still have drums brass etc.
Have a loudness monitor. Little lad with the top hat has it cranked to 11!

galwaybabe

ErnieBert wrote: »

Buskers with amps are not buskers.

The lads with he banjos are excellent and don't have amps.

Banjos are very loud instruments, hence there is not the same need for amplification as a nylon string guitar which would generally be lost without the boost of a small amp. There is a happy medium that could be reached here. I agree with inisboffin, what is needed is a limit on decibels rather than amps.

Ficheall

Does that mean they'll test the noise levels from the ones staggering and yelling up and down the street? Or the gobsheens in their soop'd up little Micras? Or outside the nightclubs and such whose patrons seem to have no issue with being deafened?

BornToBe?

Can this please include the likes of "The Latin Festival", Cuz for some reason DJ's think they have turn it up to 11 before people can hear or notice you (the DJ),
God help the people working near there, Obnoxiously LOUD, KINDA LIKE TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERSSSSSS!!!!

Don't get me wrong, the latin festival was nice, except for the fact eveything had to be played at


FULL VOLUMEEEE!!!!!!

Sponge Bob

I'd be in favour of the Amped ones getting a Culture Police prehearing and a preset Culture Police decibel level as well as a 1 amped act at a time ruling ( or 2 amped acts at set Db levels and spacing) .

But **** me Robbie in a doorway with no amp ( back in the day) could be heard in Salthill nearly which means that unamped ain't the purest either.

I'd go for decibels and a decibel meter meself whether there was an amp or not. I'll wager some of the cnuts will find a rooftop for themselves even then

inisboffin

Ah Robbie...what a set of lungs.

dloob

Well the amp ban wasn't passed last night.
They are to look at that issue further.
However they did ban busking between 11pm and 10am March to October and 10pm to 10am outside that those months.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19927-council-calls-time-late-night-city-performers

Mayo Miss

I love to wander slowly down Shop Street on a sunny day listening to the music and looking at the street performers.

Some musicians need to realise loud music isn't always good music. And some singers sound painfully bad!

What annoyed me more last week was speakers outside shops blaring out loud crappy music. I wonder what's the law around that.

Pure Sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scdh7QV7WEM

cfeeneyinterior

Amazing..... well what happened anyways, did they get amps stopped. Definately need to stop shops from playing rubbish out on to the steets too. Not looking at any of the new shops that closed in liquidation on a sunday and reopened on a Monday in particular...,....

Mrs OBumble

HardyEustace wrote: »

I'd also like to see a realistic minimum age as well. I know the kids that you are talking about, and I don't think it's right to have small children of about seven or eight standing in shop street for hours on end. It's tantamount to child cruelty and neglect.

So have you called the HSE about it, then?

Remember, an age limit would need to be across the board. I'm not sure that stopping classes from singing Christmas carols in the street for a few hours in December is necessary, in order to address issues with particular families.


I'd be more in favour of a decibel limit, and a ban on certain groups of instruments - ie drums. Sorry drum circle folks, but ye're just a pain in the ear and can be heard blocks away.

tightropetom

I used to busk on Shop street between 1995 and 1998 when I was in college (even before the pedestrianisation of Shop Street). I never had amplifiers nor did I need one. I managed to supplement my income during college quite well (ie I earned my drinking money ) without the need for gimmickry. There were a number of 'pitches' which offered good acoustics - Taaffe's Shop, Zhivago, O'Connors (best acoustics), Wollen Mill centre. The only time I had trouble was when the cr**ties used to come along banging bongos near me. They showed no consideration for other buskers when they'd set up. Similarly, anyone who had an amp (very few in those days) would just crank up the volume and ruin it for the rest of us.

A volume knob doesn't make you a better busker. It makes more people hear you, but unfortunately it annoys a lot more people too. You rarely see a busker these days without an amp. Unfortunately that means that anyone who has an amp, suddenly thinks that they look and sound good, even if they suck.

Learn to project your voice, respect other buskers and respect other street users... I think a decibel limit might be a helpful thing.

inisboffin

I'd say plenty of the folks who use an amp now could project fine without one, but it's a catch 22 situation, with the few who crank it up way too loud ruining it, and by default the others need the amp to be head over brass, drum circle, street magicians with mics, Mc Savage etc!
Yes, loud does not mean good, but amped doesn't alwaysmean loud either. Nor does it mean someone is not a 'true' busker. If that were the case a lot of the great street music in Europe wouldn't exist!

Most buskers in town are sound. They respect each other and turn down amps if they are asked. Again it's a few that abuse that, but in summer that number goes up. For some buskers this is their income, not just drink money. I really hope the find some compromise like a decibel meter, so this great tradition can continue without such animosity.

Iwannahurl

Can a bye-law also be passed that would require buskers to pass some sort of basic music examination, or even just a 'musical ear test'?

inisboffin

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Can a bye-law also be passed that would require buskers to pass some sort of basic music examination, or even just a 'musical ear test'?

I doubt it. We can't even manage it for half the musicians that get on the telly regularly!

Head The Wall

inisboffin wrote: »

For some buskers this is their income, not just drink money. I really hope the find some compromise like a decibel meter, so this great tradition can continue without such animosity.

I hope they declare that income so

The decibel meter solution would be too hard to work, just ban amps it's the simplest and easiest to implement

pleasant Co.

Head The Wall wrote: »

just ban amps it's the simplest and easiest to implement

Typical lazy irish mentality why do something right when you can do it quickly, foresight be damned :pac:

I like the idea of a decibel meter, keeps the variety of buskers up and might encourage certain shops to lower the volume blasting through their doorway too.

Head The Wall

Its not really the lazy option as it will make enforcement easier. There will be too much bureaucracy with decibel meters - who will be responsible for testing them, they will need to be calibrated, they will possibly be challenged in court, who will operate them etc and all the other legal issues that have arisen in relation to alcohol breathalysers.


It's simpler to just ban them and then any guard or community warden walking the streets can just walk up to the offending busker and tell them what law they are breaking, no questions or excuses from the busker.

inisboffin

Head The Wall wrote: »

Its not really the lazy option as it will make enforcement easier. There will be too much bureaucracy with decibel meters - who will be responsible for testing them, they will need to be calibrated, they will possibly be challenged in court, who will operate them etc and all the other legal issues that have arisen in relation to alcohol breathalysers.


It's simpler to just ban them and then any guard or community warden walking the streets can just walk up to the offending busker and tell them what law they are breaking, no questions or excuses from the busker.

Hmm. If it's just amp banning, I am fairly sure we will be swamped with drum circles, bad sax players, bad pipers (the girl who plays around town is very good, so not talking about her) etc, who flock in for the summer, drown all the other buskers, and say 'hey, not breaking any law man!'. :eek: And yes. Some buskers do declare their income (not all though, I suspect! )

Joking aside, if it's an amp ban, it has to be an amp ban and instruments that can sound as loud as an amped quieter one. And how can they do that?

padraig71

I'm with Inisboffin on this one. I have busked plenty in Galway in the past, and never with an amp. IMO, learning to project is part of learning to sing, and the street really demands it. But what if you're delicately picking a classical guitar or a harp? And what about an inherently loud (and boringly monotonous) instrument such as a didgeridoo or a djembe?

I agree that the pan-pipes crew are the bane of a decent busker's life. And as for the plink-plonk cardboard-banjo merchant… at least he's quiet, I suppose, but what a waste of a pitch. And they should limit the use of speakers outside shops and pubs - surely they need a licence for this, just as they do for putting tables on the street?

How about stopping magicians et al from totally blocking the road between Tigh Coili and the King's Head?

To be honest, though, I feel that enforcing the laws requiring cyclists to have lights on during hours of darkness is more important if the guards don't have enough to do…

Head The Wall

I get where ye are coming from but laws are useless without enforcement, how long are we waiting for the guards to start using decibel meters for those clowns with the loud exhausts.

xo.mary

bigtuna wrote: »

I would be happy to have the one that sings every weekend outside Vision Express silenced. He sings Zombie at least 4 times a night. Even with all the windows in my flat shut I can still hear him. Drives me mental. Could they introduce a ban on certain songs? That would be great

I HATE THIS GUY WITH A PASSION. I do promo for a nightclub, so I'm on shop st 3-4 nights a week and I am so sick of him. He only knows about 3 songs, and can't sing to save his life!


I honestly have never thought any busker was too loud, but I definitely think there should be a law in place so they can't busk after a certain hour. (Yes, I know there has been talk of something, but I would like it implemented sometime soon.)

inisboffin

xo.mary wrote: »

I honestly have never thought any busker was too loud, but I definitely think there should be a law in place so they can't busk after a certain hour. (Yes, I know there has been talk of something, but I would like it implemented sometime soon.)

It'll be in soon, 10 or 11. More info in the links on this thread.

ben.schlomo

I lived on Market St until two years ago and can honestly say ive never found anything as annoying as those ****ing drum/bongo ****ers that play outside Easons, used to go until well after 1am and same tune constantly, im not joking when i say i can still hear that tune in my head now. Busking should be finished no later than midnight. Amps are a pain in the arse too but the time thing would solve a lot of the irritation imo.

TheCosmicFrog

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I lived on Market St until two years ago and can honestly say ive never found anything as annoying as those ****ing drum/bongo ****ers that play outside Easons, used to go until well after 1am and same tune constantly

I have a friend who busks from time to time and, whatever about the tune they're playing, I can tell you that they take up a massive amount of the "airways" on Shop St. If they're playing outside Eason's, the closest you can audibly busk with a guitar is near Foot Locker.

ScumLord

Here's a new instrument that Galway people could be banned from listening to in public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpUKgRI3knw

I think this is an enforcement of trad music on Galway people, all modern forms of electronic music will effectively banned.

inisboffin

ScumLord wrote: »

Here's a new instrument that Galway people could be banned from listening to in public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpUKgRI3knw

.

That's a very cool yoke! Changes key by twisting? I might, however, after a while of listening to it before going to sleep, have nightmares involving clowns and rocket launchers in a desert.:p

Pure Sound

Whats wrong with the council just having a maximum amp size say of 10-20 watts. Surely that would be easy to police and wouldn't overpower all other artists on the street. The banning of the amp on shop street would ruin the diversity of music available in Galway which could affect tourists views of Galway as a cultural town.

inisboffin

We Need Community wrote: »

Whats wrong with the council just having a maximum amp size say of 10-20 watts. Surely that would be easy to police and wouldn't overpower all other artists on the street. The banning of the amp on shop street would ruin the diversity of music available in Galway which could affect tourists views of Galway as a cultural town.

That is a reasonable suggestion. Most of the solo performers use ones less than 10 I'd say. I think the max on the cube ones is 10, could be wrong. But when one is turned up to '11' and used with a bad mic or pickup, it can sound like a cheesegrater. Still. Reasonable suggestion.

ScumLord

inisboffin wrote: »

That's a very cool yoke! Changes key by twisting? I might, however, after a while of listening to it before going to sleep, have nightmares involving clowns and rocket launchers in a desert.:p

I'm assuming it sounds better in real life I don't think the camera had a good enough microphone to pick up the sound properly.

inisboffin

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm assuming it sounds better in real life I don't think the camera had a good enough microphone to pick up the sound properly.

I liked it. It just had eerie creepy carnival clown inducing tones!

ScumLord

inisboffin wrote: »

I liked it. It just had eerie creepy carnival clown inducing tones!

It does at times, would be funny to just follow someone around with one playing scene specific creepy music. Reminds me of old arcade game music.