Semi solid or Engineered wooden flooring

torrentum

Hi all
I'm thinking of flooring my living room with wooden flooring.
Engineered flooring is expensive, and generally speaking, semi solid seems to be cheaper.
Is there any major disadvantages to using semi solid, in terms of durability and potential for sanding and re-surfacing in years to come? Does either of the two types warp? ( I was thinking of buying an oak floor and need to decide whether to go semi or engineered)

Thanks in advance

gsxr1

Semi is engineered flooring . Its a solid top glued on to a ply base.

solid wood flooring is not engineered.

Semi can be sanded once or twice depending on the quality. It is also less likely to warp or cup.

Solid is beautiful and feels well underfoot but can be prone to expansion and cupping more than the semi.

slimjimmc

Semi-solid is laid as a floating floor which means the boards are glued to other but it's not fixed down and is free to expand and contract naturally.
Solid floors are nearly always fixed down to the sub-floor because of the risk of cupping, this is usually done by nailing them onto sheets of plywood/osb or to battens fixed to the subfloor, or by bonding them to the subfloor. Some solid floors can be floated (usually narrow boards) but you must confirm this with the manufacturer.
Semi-solid tends to be cheaper to lay because of the less labour involved but don't stand up to high wear areas as good because of the surface wood veneer is 5-6mm thick.

antiskeptic

torrentum wrote: »

Hi all
I'm thinking of flooring my living room with wooden flooring.
Engineered flooring is expensive, and generally speaking, semi solid seems to be cheaper.
Is there any major disadvantages to using semi solid, in terms of durability and potential for sanding and re-surfacing in years to come? Does either of the two types warp? ( I was thinking of buying an oak floor and need to decide whether to go semi or engineered)

Thanks in advance

The semi-solid/engineered won't quite feel as solid as solid (if you catch my drift). It's laid on underlay foam so will feel a bit spongy underfoot. Other than that it looks the same as solid.

As for life? Unless you've got a thing about having an utterly blemish free floor, there's nothing stopping you, come the time, giving the floor the lighest of sandings with an orbital sander (I mean just keying the old finish to take a new coat or two) and re-painting with Diamond Coat or the like.

You won't take any wood away that way so the 5-6mm top layer on the semi-solid will last forever. And you get all the benefits of it.

Shop around. I got some nice oak recently at half price in a small plywood/veneer wholesalers who are struggling for business. It was half the price of B+Q stuff too .. and far nicer.

Poulgorm

I have been doing some research into this as well - the carpet in the lounge is getting old and we are replacing it with a timber floor. This is what I have come up with (and correct me if I am wrong):

1. Solid timber cannot be used with underfloor heating
2. Solid timber is more prone to problems later, caused by shrinkage / expansion
3. Engineered floors have a ply wood backing
4. Semi solid floors have a softwood backing. Therefore engineered floors are stronger than semi solid.
5. The price appears to depend on the thickness of the backing timber and the thickness of the finished timber.

slimjimmc

I've semi-solid down in rooms and hallway and it really does feel solid with no hint of sponginess (unlike laminate). The only difference I notice is footsteps don't sound as hard as when walking on solid, which is a good thing imo. I'd agree on the sanding, a light keying is all you need to re-coat the lacquer, which shouldn't be necessary for a good few years. If you avoid aggressive sanding it'll last a long long time.

torrentum

thanks everyone for your inputs. there's a certain finish/colour that we liked and saw it on semi-solid. there's something similar with the engineered one but the price is around e30 /sqy higher than the semi solid but we're worried as the salesman said that the engineered is more stable and durable as its backing is harder than the semisolid but i wonder if the difference between the two justifies the higher cost of the engineered ones? both have 6 mm top layer and we're planning to place it on our sitting room.

Paul.C

torrentum wrote: »

thanks everyone for your inputs. there's a certain finish/colour that we liked and saw it on semi-solid. there's something similar with the engineered one but the price is around e30 /sqy higher than the semi solid but we're worried as the salesman said that the engineered is more stable and durable as its backing is harder than the semisolid but i wonder if the difference between the two justifies the higher cost of the engineered ones? both have 6 mm top layer and we're planning to place it on our sitting room.

They are the same, engineered floor is semi solid and having laid a thousands of sqyds of it my advice is one strip semi-solid/engineered flooring with v-grooves or a slight chamfered edge. You can get it in 3 strip etc but it looks cheap and you run the risk of it looking exactly like laminate. I am a carpenter and i wouldnt put solid down in my own house as along with the danger of future cupping you will get creaking after a while where the secret nails are actually rubbing against the floor.

Semi solid and engineered again are the same. An engineered floor can be a plywood base with 5-10mm top finished solid wood. Other than a plywood base you can get an array of plied wood underneath (birch being an example) This is where I think you are confusing the two as the latter is very light and the plywood base is a lot heavier.

IMO the two types are very good and the only time you run the risk of spongy floor is when the subfloor is not level and has high and low points. Make sure your subfloor is level and use self leveling compound where required. Also I wouldnt listen too much to salesreps in the suppliers as they will tell you what they want you to hear. I had a sales rep try and convince me that polythene doesnt go under wood floor as DPM and I could lay floor on top of newly poured concrete floor.

Also as far as price is concerned, shop around as there are huge differences between suppliers and over order 5-10% for damages/mistakes and unforeseen obstacles. When paying with cash as domestic consumer get your price and deduct about 10% and make your offer. They will accept. If you get your carpenter to order for you, he may be able to get up to 25% off depending on the seller.

creedp

Make sure your subfloor is level and use self leveling compound where required. Also I wouldnt listen too much to salesreps in the suppliers as they will tell you what they want you to hear. I had a sales rep try and convince me that polythene doesnt go under wood floor as DPM and I could lay floor on top of newly poured concrete floor.

Just to clarify here are you advising that a DPM should be put under engineered wood beng glued onto concrete screed? Will this not render the glue pretty inneffectual? Also on self levelling compound, should this be used even if screed is pretty level, i.e. is it always better to use the compound and does its use have any negative implications for UFH?

Thanks

Paul.C

creedp wrote: »

Just to clarify here are you advising that a DPM should be put under engineered wood beng glued onto concrete screed? Will this not render the glue pretty inneffectual? Also on self levelling compound, should this be used even if screed is pretty level, i.e. is it always better to use the compound and does its use have any negative implications for UFH?

Thanks

Sorry if I have misread this thread but this is a floating engineered floor and its not fixed to the subfloor.

If you are laying solid floor to screed with glue by bonding the wood floor to the subfloor the same way a tiler glues down tiles then you wont need DPM as the adhesive that holds it down creates a barrier.

And yes if the screed it not level then you will need to self level. The subfloor IMO determines how long your woodfloor will last etc.

Refer to the guidelines on the SLC and the floor adhesive to see what discrepancies you can get away with.

If you are using adhesive then the screed should be primed for dust and better adhesion

creedp

Paul.C wrote: »

Sorry if I have misread this thread but this is a floating engineered floor and its not fixed to the subfloor.

If you are laying solid floor to screed with glue by bonding the wood floor to the subfloor the same way a tiler glues down tiles then you wont need DPM as the adhesive that holds it down creates a barrier.

And yes if the screed it not level then you will need to self level. The subfloor IMO determines how long your woodfloor will last etc.

Refer to the guidelines on the SLC and the floor adhesive to see what discrepancies you can get away with.

If you are using adhesive then the screed should be primed for dust and better adhesion

Thanks for the clarification PaulC. It was me who didn't read the thread properly:) Good point re: priming the screed. In my case I have the sand/cement screed is very clean and quite porous - do you think it would still benefit from priming?

Paul.C

I would prime just to be sure. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it:)

torrentum

Fantastic pointers. Thanks all:)

creedp

Paul.C wrote: »

I would prime just to be sure. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it:)

Certaintly in my case this statement has a broad application:)

Unfortunately only too often I find myself in the latter camp

Thanks PaulC

slimjimmc

To give you an idea of how flat your subfloor should be, most semi-solid/engineered flooring manufacturers specify a variation of not more than 2 or 3mm (i.e. the thickness of the foam underlay) over a 3m length. Set a 3m long straight edge on the floor and if you see a gap greater than the manufacturer's specs anywhere then you will need to level it unless you want creaks developing. For guidance, a €1 coin is 2.33mm thick, a 5c coin is 1.67mm thick. Repeating this across the whole floor along the length, width and diagonals will give you a good idea of the surface variation.

Thierry

After reading few posts and advice on Internet, I come to the conclusion that it is better to have engineered wood at grade level over a concrete slab, with self-levelling compound put down (25mm in average).

Solid wood will curl over years, unless you stop complety the moisture from sub-floor. This means a DPM over the base (polyethene sheet) then plywood (14mm minimum, better 18mm) then the solid wood nailed down to the plywood.
This means a floor 25mm+18mm+18mm=61mm tick! from the concrete base.

In my case the living area (kitchen open plan) has got 2400 ceiling heigh, (which is the minimum requirement) so I cannot afford such tickness.


I read now that some people glue down solid wood over the concrete/levelled compound). Is this possible, recommended?

Thanks

Paul.C

Thierry wrote: »

After reading few posts and advice on Internet, I come to the conclusion that it is better to have engineered wood at grade level over a concrete slab, with self-levelling compound put down (25mm in average).

Solid wood will curl over years, unless you stop complety the moisture from sub-floor. This means a DPM over the base (polyethene sheet) then plywood (14mm minimum, better 18mm) then the solid wood nailed down to the plywood.
This means a floor 25mm+18mm+18mm=61mm tick! from the concrete base.

In my case the living area (kitchen open plan) has got 2400 ceiling heigh, (which is the minimum requirement) so I cannot afford such tickness.


I read now that some people glue down solid wood over the concrete/levelled compound). Is this possible, recommended?

Thanks

Emm, think u read wrong somewhere there mate. The self leveling compound is a few mm like anywhere between 2mm-10mm and its not really spread that thick all over. Its really just to fill the dips and give the floor a flat base.

If you were going solid floor then first u lay a dpm, then expess nail a 18mm base to the concrete floor and finally secret nail 14-22mm solid floor to subfloor.

You can glue the floor down with special adhesive the same method as tiling too.

IMO and it will differ to others.... Engineered is the best option. You can get very good and very bad engineered stuff but the most important thing to look for is the thickness of the solid wood finish on top(wear layer).

If this is to thin or inconsistent from board to board it can be viewed as crap or bad construction.

The thicker the layer the better.

Also, an other thing to look forward to in solid is the creaking it will make down the years after its expanded and shrank a few times. This is because the wood can start to rub of the nails as pressure is applied and is very annoying. If the boards cup this noise will be very bad.

Anyway best of luck with your kitchen. Solid will raise it 36mm and engineered will raise it 14-20mm