DEFAULT NOW

jakdelad

why are we deluding ourselves, there is no way we can climb out of this monstrous debt........
the govt is trying to tax their way out
water charges, property tax, mooted more income tax
you can only come to the well so often.....
the people just dont have the money
can we not cut the banks loose and keep one sound bank
russia could come to our aid
we could let russia handle our debt in exchange for a big military base
in the west of ireland.......
anyone else with sound suggestions

[MOD]jakdelad, this is about the sixth or seventh virtually identical thread you've started, and I've warned you about it before. Banned for a week. Next ban for exactly the same thing will be a month, then 3 months, then a permaban.[/MOD]

matthew8

jakdelad wrote: »

why are we deluding ourselves, there is no way we can climb out of this monstrous debt........
the govt is trying to tax their way out
water charges, property tax, mooted more income tax
you can only come to the well so often.....
the people just dont have the money
can we not cut the banks loose and keep one sound bank
russia could come to our aid
we could let russia handle our debt in exchange for a big military base
in the west of ireland.......
anyone else with sound suggestions

Separate bank from sovereign debt, default on bank debt and pay back the sovereign by balancing the budget. This would collapse the euro and would make for some great economic turbulence but it should help us in the long run. The lesson is that in order to have one currency you need one banking system which is what Europe is trying to have right now but we can't unless Germany or France give us free money to pay back the debt.

We would then need a new currency, which would probably be devalued because our government doesn't have any gold.

Very tough times whatever course of action.

beeftotheheels

matthew8 wrote: »

Separate bank from sovereign debt, default on bank debt and pay back the sovereign by balancing the budget. This would collapse the euro and would make for some great economic turbulence but it should help us in the long run.

Are you for real? "some great economic turbulence" should help us in the long term? What you are proposing is using Agent Orange to deal with the dandelions in the lawn.

We can dig them out, we can use various weedkillers etc and we can have a debate around that. What we don't do is endanger both the lawn, and the health of the family, in order the kill the - admittedly annoying - pissenlits.

matthew8

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Are you for real? "some great economic turbulence" should help us in the long term? What you are proposing is using Agent Orange to deal with the dandelions in the lawn.

We can dig them out, we can use various weedkillers etc and we can have a debate around that. What we don't do is endanger both the lawn, and the health of the family, in order the kill the - admittedly annoying - pissenlits.

I think that ultimately by leaving the euro we will be helped in the long term despite major difficulties at first.

I had no idea what you were saying after that.

Godge

jakdelad wrote: »

why are we deluding ourselves, there is no way we can climb out of this monstrous debt........
the govt is trying to tax their way out
water charges, property tax, mooted more income tax
you can only come to the well so often.....
the people just dont have the money
can we not cut the banks loose and keep one sound bank
russia could come to our aid
we could let russia handle our debt in exchange for a big military base
in the west of ireland.......
anyone else with sound suggestions

a


Ha, ha, ha, great post.

Let me see, better ideas than "Bring in the Russians!"

Abolish social welfare,
Sell Ireland to the Arabs,
Join the USA,
Play a big game of Monopoly selling property to each other with money that isn't real (oops, tried that, discovered too late that the borrowed money was real)
Create a Disneyland Dublin, shure all the tourists will come,
Become one big casino,
Abolish the public service,


Well they are better ideas that "bring in the Russians"

PseudoFamous

jakdelad wrote: »

russia could come to our aid
we could let russia handle our debt in exchange for a big military base
in the west of ireland.......

Why in God's name would we want that? Russia's economy isn't much more than about six times ours. The EU's economy is eight times larger than Russia's; The German economy alone is nearly twice the size of the Russian economy. We stand a far better chance of staying on the EU's favourable side if we don't default. Just because Russia is big doesn't mean that it's incredibly rich.

beeftotheheels

matthew8 wrote: »

I think that ultimately by leaving the euro we will be helped in the long term despite major difficulties at first.

I had no idea what you were saying after that.

You didn't suggest leaving the eurozone in a nice orderly manner. Had you done so I would have disputed our ability to do so under current rules, but if it were possible then I agree that it might be beneficial to us.

What you suggested was bringing down the eurozone, which is what the ECB seem to think our "burning of the bondholders" would do. Lehmans (on steroids) Mark II.

If we were to repudiate the bank debt, then the ECB believes that that could trigger a panic across the eurozone banking system, that that banking system would freeze up. We know from their larger exposure to our banking system that financial institutions in the UK would also be hit. If CDSs started getting triggered the US financial institutions as the major providers of those instruments would also be hit. The panic spreads...

As we saw from the summer of 2007 when the banking system starts to freeze up it has a knock on effect on the "real economy". Banks start hoarding cash, not lending it to businesses to expand. The economy contracts.

If the ECB are right on this, and they seem pretty convinced and have access to better numbers than most individuals including leading academics of any one Member State, then the knock on effect of us repudiating the bank debt is America, and Germany, and France etc etc falling back into recession.

So suddenly even though our exports may be cheaper, there is no market for them because no one is buying anything.

This is the "great economic turbulence" that you proposed, and I'm afraid that I simply cannot agree with you. Even though I acknowledge that there is a risk that the ECB is wrong, the risks associated with them being right are far too high.

RMD

Legalise recreational drugs, prostitution and gambling. Turn O'Connell street into something resembling the Las Vegas Strip, problem solved. Sure we could do day tours to the Wicklow Gap and call it the Grand Canyon of Ireland. The yanks will eat that stuff up.

Overheal

jakdelad wrote: »

why are we deluding ourselves, there is no way we can climb out of this monstrous debt........

Irish debt is 65% of GDP. To put that in perspective, current US debt is 93% of GDP. You can of course get out of that, but not if you've already decided it's game over.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I don't think the people of the west would like an enormous Russian Army base being constructed on their doorstep, even if this hypothesis of yours was remotely plausible.

Mr Trade In

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I don't think the people of the west would like an enormous Russian Army base being constructed on their doorstep, even if this hypothesis of yours was remotely plausible.

Look at it from our point of view,we have the French,Germans,IMF,EU,THE BRITS, and all the bond holders waiting in the wings,we the ordinary people are suffering due to a bunch of mindless gamblers playing with theroretical money and losing their roll of the dice. Burn them now as their credit has run out.

Mr Trade In

May be not the best place to ask such a question but here goes, if we do default are we risking military reaction or will we be economically cut off.

Yawns

Let the Chinese buy us and run the country! We'll be exporting then soon enough and sure they'd love to have a military base in western Europe It's a win - win - win for them.

I for 1 welcome our Chinese overlords!

Or would that be underlords seeing as they're so small?






















* The above post may contain a bit of nuts

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Look at it from our point of view,we have the French,Germans,IMF,EU,THE BRITS, and all the bond holders waiting in the wings,we the ordinary people are suffering due to a bunch of mindless gamblers playing with theroretical money and losing their roll of the dice. Burn them now as their credit has run out.

I'm in favour of default but I don't think selling the country to Russia is a good trade off

Mr Trade In wrote: »

May be not the best place to ask such a question but here goes, if we do default are we risking military reaction or will we be economically cut off.

I severely doubt we'll face military action. If we do then they won't be able to impose a Versailles-style treaty on us as we already owe too much money.

matthew8

Mr Trade In wrote: »

May be not the best place to ask such a question but here goes, if we do default are we risking military reaction or will we be economically cut off.

It could get to that point yes. But European armies today are awful (Though the Germans are traditionally a force to be reckoned with France and England are a shambles) and the whole thing would be a disaster for them because "Irish America" is too big to stop the US intervening. Military reaction is very unlikely though.

Overheal

Mr Trade In wrote: »

May be not the best place to ask such a question but here goes, if we do default are we risking military reaction or will we be economically cut off.

More likely outcome is economic sanctions. Embargoes on Irish imports and exports. Or tariffs.

Mr Trade In

I wouldn't be surprised if it did come to that, after all a good war usually clears the way for those in power to rebuild,what ever happens these gamblers lost and like any lottery there is no refund allowed.

Dannyboy83

Take out some of the mid and low level corruption in Russia, add some pedophilia a little bit of free press and some extra democratic rights, you essentially arrive at the same system as Ireland

(A) U (B) == An oligarchy, with a corrupt upper tier, nepotism, clannishness and little to no respect for the electorate.

The judiciary is basically what sets us apart.

Scofflaw

Enough already.

moderately,
Scofflaw