Paint on ceiling turning to powder?

Nolanger

About 2 years back I got part of my kitchen ceiling painted. Now the floor is covered in white powder and the ceiling looks fuzzy. How did this happen and is it healthy to be breathing in this stuff?

AckwelFoley

Nolanger wrote: »

About 2 years back I got part of my kitchen ceiling painted. Now the floor is covered in white powder and the ceiling looks fuzzy. How did this happen and is it healthy to be breathing in this stuff?

Bizzare.

I cant say that its no harm.

Is it only one specific part?

michael999999

Was there a damp patch where you painted it,that may now have dried out?

Is the patch over a hob or range?

Ellis Dee

Nolanger wrote: »

About 2 years back I got part of my kitchen ceiling painted. Now the floor is covered in white powder and the ceiling looks fuzzy. How did this happen and is it healthy to be breathing in this stuff?

Was the job done by Cowboy Decorators Ltd? They did some work for a friend of mine as well and he's been trying vainly to get in touch with them since then. Have you got a current address for them by any chance?:):)

Paul.C

this may be a very slow leak too, or cowboys. replacement of plasterboard and a repaint would be advisable. If its a slow leak It will come back. I had the same problem and it was just the radiator above leaking very very slowly.

brendankelly

In the last couple of months on this forum we have seen a professional stone mason after doing a course, Ryan air plasterers that only put on one coat of skim and conmen that put PVA on over fresh plaster. So God only knows what kind of a chemical reaction is happening on your ceiling. As for it been unhealthy what do you think your self? You have particles on the floor so it would be logical that there are particles also in the air.

If you want a job done get a professional that can speak English.

Paul.C

brendankelly wrote: »

In the last couple of months on this forum we have seen a professional stone mason after doing a course, Ryan air plasterers that only put on one coat of skim and conmen that put PVA on over fresh plaster. So God only knows what kind of a chemical reaction is happening on your ceiling. As for it been unhealthy what do you think your self? You have particles on the floor so it would be logical that there are particles also in the air.

If you want a job done get a professional that can speak English.

what:eek:? only english speaking people can do a good job??? I have seen plenty of good work done by foreigners so maybe you should button it with the racism.
You really cant let things go! That lad never said he was a pro stonemason and you got proved wrong and stopped posting in that forum. As for the ryanair plasterer that only applies one coat. I use two lads from donegal to do all my plasterwork on every job, They are the best plasterers I have ever seen. They never apply a second coat because its never needed, they do it right the first time and never faulter. Metal stud slabed and skimed walls can be 100mm thick, I know this is fact because iv fitted 50+solid oak doors and frames to them. As for pva, It is a difference of opinions and can be used in certain circumstances. Its an argument that will never be resolved as some people swear by it and some people dont. Get over yourself!

You seem to have a major attitude problem mate. People ask for help all the time in this forum and you slate them, slag them, abuse them and get banned. Grow up and maybe try 'constructive' criticism instead of straight abuse.

You didnt leave school and start plastering without asking any questions. You asked loads of questions to acquire your trade. Other people ask questions and all you do is be a smartarse. Grow up, If you dont have something Intelligent or helpfull to say then button it:rolleyes:
Arrogance is not a quality, no-one likes a smartarse

Ellis Dee

brendankelly wrote: »

--

If you want a job done get a professional that can speak English.

The Germans reduced the Old City in Warsaw to a mixture of dust and rubble towards the end of the Second World War. The Poles restored it so beautifully that it is now a major tourist attraction. They must have had great English to be able to do it so well. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

brendankelly

People ask for advice on how they should do jobs properly themselves. Luckily for them there are some trades men on this forum that knows how to do jobs properly. Thank God they do not have to rely on cowboys that only apply one coat of plaster and then apply PVA before painting or we would have a lot problems like the OP has.

paddy147

And "some people here" like to act like complete arrogant snobs who lord it over anyone else who dares to make a comment.

Paul.C

brendankelly wrote: »

People ask for advice on how they should do jobs properly themselves. Luckily for them there are some trades men on this forum that knows how to do jobs properly. Thank God they do not have to rely on cowboys that only apply one coat of plaster and then apply PVA before painting or we would have a lot problems like the OP has.

People ask for advice (not yours) and you get aggressive with them. People like you are ten a penny on site. Apprentices and the likes that have to work under the likes of you get an awful time because they want to learn and you want to be a jackass. People dont learn anything when you get in their face. If someone makes a mistake then you show them how to put it right and they acquire experience. You seem to know the 'right' way to do 'everything':rolleyes: but you are a terrible teacher. Try working on your attitude towards other people before posting your 'advice'. And yes there are many skilled people on here that no how to do a job properly, and I wouldnt consider you to be one of them. Life is hard enough without having to put up with the likes of you every day.

PS. A good plasterer puts a skimcoat on and evens it out with the second. A great plaster doesnt need a second. :P

delly

Folks, either post something positive that may help the OP or don't post at all. First and only warning

Paul.C

sorry OP about taking hijacking your thread. Anyway, back to the question.

If this is only one spot on the ceiling then what is above that section? I could be a number of things but my feeling is its a slow leak that has stopped or is extremely slow. Like I said above, it could be as simple as a heater above that needs slight tightening.

Is the area in question damp?
Have you had any work done bar the painting?
When was the last time you had a plumber in?
It could be a failed pipe fitting.

You could go ahead and wirebrush a lot of it of and refill and repaint but IMO that part of the slab should be removed carefully with a padsaw being very carefull to avoid copper pipes and cables. Maybe turn the power off if your not used to this kind of patchwork. Once removed you will be able to see if there is any leaks above. Once this is done you can replace the slab, fill and repaint.

If you have a stud finder this will make the job easier. But if you remove the paint that is there and just repaint without finding the cause then it is likely this problem will return down the line.

All that said, I dont think that it would be a major health concern but I wouldnt like breathing that in TBH and better get sorting it out sooner than later

Nolanger

When I place my hand on the ceiling and side wall the white paint (very small amout) gets on my fingers. It's like the paint never dried? It's like powder and doesn't stick to my hand. There's an apartment above mine. The ceiling/wall doesn't feel damp though it does look tea stained. It's only at one end of the ceiling/wall - maybe covering one fifth of the area. There's an apartment beside mine and it's probably the same on the ceiling there too.

Paul.C

Nolanger wrote: »

When I place my hand on the ceiling and side wall the white paint (very small amout) gets on my fingers. It's like the paint never dried? It's like powder and doesn't stick to my hand. There's an apartment above mine. The ceiling/wall doesn't feel damp though it does look tea stained. It's only at one end of the ceiling/wall - maybe covering one fifth of the area. There's an apartment beside mine and it's probably the same on the ceiling there too.

The ceiling above yours is more than likely slab screwed to a drop ceiling ie. 2x2 battons nailed or hung from precast concrete.

Precast concrete slabs have hollows in them and can fill with water if rained on before the building is sealed. This could be leaking out the side at the wall ceiling join. Its a long shot but its happened before! how old is the building?

If its not this then hopefully someone else has a better explanation. Id be guessing after this.

A guy I used to work with was drilling into precast ceiling before and the builders toilet was above in the form of floor corner. When he pulled drill bit out he got a mouthfull of pish:mad: I was in stitches

If its timber frame then id still say its a slow leak. Il take a photo of this problem in my kitchen and post here soon to see if its similar. Mine is dry, powdery and looks tea stained too. It could be as simple as badly grouted or sealed tiles above or again a joint fail

Paul.C

Photo is sideways. Thats the ceiling to the left meeting the top of wall on the right. Bit fuzzy I took pic on camera phone.

Nonmonotonic

You are messing with our heads now!
It would be better if the OP posted pics.

The picture posted is obviously a leak located where the black fungus spot is.

Paul.C

Nonmonotonic wrote: »

You are messing with our heads now!
It would be better if the OP posted pics.

The picture posted is obviously a leak located where the black fungus spot is.

The black spots are holes where the two slabs meet and the scrim tape is. I poked through it with a handle to check damage. There is no mould, the black is from the radiator water leaked. Radiator water is filthy, oxidising or something like that. But its bone dry, OP is this like what your looking at?

brendankelly

Nolanger. Your problem could be caused by any amount of things but I think that if it was from a leak the area would be damp. Something is having a reaction to something else and if I were you I would take down the area plus a foot extra and re do it.

brendankelly

Paul.

Below is what could happen if moisture is trapped in gypsum. Several on this list told you that PVA should not be put on plaster. You and Paddy can do what ever you like on your own houses but you should not advise others to do something that could cause a serious health hazard.

o Stachybotrys chartarumScientific classificationKingdom:FungiDivision:AscomycotaClass:SordariomycetesOrder:HypocrealesGenus:StachybotrysSpecies:S. chartarumBinomial nameStachybotrys chartarum
(Ehrenb.) S. HughesSynonymsStachybotrys atra Corda Stachybotrys alternans Bonord. Stilbospora chartarum Ehrenb.

Stachybotrys chartarum is a black mold that produce its conidia in slime heads. It is sometimes found in soil and grain, but mostly isolated from cellulose rich building materials in damp or water-damaged buildings[1]. Stachybotrys atra was originally described from the wall of a house in Prague in 1837 by Czech mycologist August Carl Joseph Corda. It requires high moisture content in order to grow and is associated to wet gypsum material and wallpaper[2].
Health problems related to this mold have been documented in humans and animals since the 1930s [3] (and it is even consideredI][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words"][COLOR=#0645ad]by whom?[/COLOR][/URL][/I a likely candidate for the Biblical condition mistranslated as "leprosy", tzaraath). More recently, S. chartarum has been linked with so-called sick building syndrome. However, the link has not been firmly established in the scientific literature.
There are two chemotypes in S. chartarum, one that produce trichothecene mycotoxins including satratoxins and one that produce atranones[4].
Two cats died under anesthesia in what is believed to be the first documented case of black mold poisoning in pets. The cats had been living in Florida in a water damaged home. During routine dental procedures both cats experienced severe pulmonary hemorrhage and later died. Blood tests confirmed the presence of a toxin produced by S. chartarum, and severe mold contamination was found in the homef black mold poisoning in pets. The cats had been living in Florida in a water damaged home. During routine dental procedures both cats experienced severe pulmonary hemorrhage and later died. Blood tests confirmed the presence of a toxin produced by S. chartarum, and severe mold contamination was found in the home

paddy147

Brendan,dont you DARE drag me into this with your postings again.Dont even try to imply that I advized or said anything,when I clearly didnt.Im getting sick of this carry on of yours now.

You can also remove my name and your false claim about me,from your post above.:mad:

Paul.C

brendankelly wrote: »

Nolanger. Your problem could be caused by any amount of things but I think that if it was from a leak the area would be damp. Something is having a reaction to something else and if I were you I would take down the area plus a foot extra and re do it.

I agree

brendankelly wrote: »

Paul.

Below is what could happen if moisture is trapped in gypsum. Several on this list told you that PVA should not be put on plaster. You and Paddy can do what ever you like on your own houses but you should not advise others to do something that could cause a serious health hazard.

o Stachybotrys chartarumScientific classificationKingdom:FungiDivision:AscomycotaClass:SordariomycetesOrder:HypocrealesGenus:StachybotrysSpecies:S. chartarumBinomial nameStachybotrys chartarum
(Ehrenb.) S. HughesSynonymsStachybotrys atra Corda Stachybotrys alternans Bonord. Stilbospora chartarum Ehrenb.

Stachybotrys chartarum is a black mold that produce its conidia in slime heads. It is sometimes found in soil and grain, but mostly isolated from cellulose rich building materials in damp or water-damaged buildings[1]. Stachybotrys atra was originally described from the wall of a house in Prague in 1837 by Czech mycologist August Carl Joseph Corda. It requires high moisture content in order to grow and is associated to wet gypsum material and wallpaper[2].
Health problems related to this mold have been documented in humans and animals since the 1930s [3] (and it is even consideredI][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words"][COLOR=#0645ad]by whom?[/COLOR][/URL][/I a likely candidate for the Biblical condition mistranslated as "leprosy", tzaraath). More recently, S. chartarum has been linked with so-called sick building syndrome. However, the link has not been firmly established in the scientific literature.
There are two chemotypes in S. chartarum, one that produce trichothecene mycotoxins including satratoxins and one that produce atranones[4].
Two cats died under anesthesia in what is believed to be the first documented case of black mold poisoning in pets. The cats had been living in Florida in a water damaged home. During routine dental procedures both cats experienced severe pulmonary hemorrhage and later died. Blood tests confirmed the presence of a toxin produced by S. chartarum, and severe mold contamination was found in the homef black mold poisoning in pets. The cats had been living in Florida in a water damaged home. During routine dental procedures both cats experienced severe pulmonary hemorrhage and later died. Blood tests confirmed the presence of a toxin produced by S. chartarum, and severe mold contamination was found in the home

You clearly know your gypsum better than me so I concur. My pick is rad damage. Tightened rad nut and problem solved. I will be redoing the lot when I get a chance

Nonmonotonic

brendankelly wrote: »

Stachybotrys chartarum is a black mold

This is the saliant part of your post. To be hazardous the mould must be black which is not the case here.
It may however be unhealthy because ( from another wikipedia page )

In the 1970s, building construction techniques changed in response to the changing economic realities including the energy crisis. As a result, homes and buildings became more airtight. Also, cheaper materials such as drywall came into common use. The newer building materials reduced the drying potential of the structures making moisture problems more prevalent. This combination of increased moisture and suitable substrates contributed to increased mold growth inside buildings.

So don't knock down your house, just open a window.

delly

brendankelly, your reference to Paddy who has not given any actual advice on thread, is seen by me as a direct attack on said poster for whatever reason you have. I have already given a warning on thread, so you can have a week ban for your post.

irelandspurs

Could be efflorescence

Fordpefect

Nolanger wrote: »

When I place my hand on the ceiling and side wall the white paint (very small amout) gets on my fingers. It's like the paint never dried? It's like powder and doesn't stick to my hand. There's an apartment above mine. The ceiling/wall doesn't feel damp though it does look tea stained. It's only at one end of the ceiling/wall - maybe covering one fifth of the area. There's an apartment beside mine and it's probably the same on the ceiling there too.

I would say most likely there is some damp or possibly a leak in the area where you are having this problem, is there a bathroom or radiator overhead,that may have a slow leak

Nolanger

No sure, but I do know that the apartment above me is only used a few months each year by a pensioner. I hoovered the fuzzy loose paint off the ceiling today! There's a window left open in the room so it's always cold. I've never noticed the ceiling or wall being damp but after a week there's paint powder on the lino floor?

brendankelly

Paul. The reason for the second coat is that when the first coat is ""going off"" it creates suction and this suction makes the second coat pourus. Therefore the second coat is a little bit breathable and will dry out and absorb condensation. For example the plaster in your photo has dried out and a lick of paint is all it needs. If it had been sealed by a one coat glazed finish or PVA or some such it would not dry out and you would get mould etc.

The best example is if you look at a house built before felt was used you will see a lime plaster under the slates. This lime plaster absorbed up all the moisture/condensation in the house.

Paul.C wrote: »

PS. A good plasterer puts a skimcoat on and evens it out with the second. A great plaster doesnt need a second. :P

Spread

Paul.C wrote: »

....................................................................

PS. A good plasterer puts a skimcoat on and evens it out with the second. A great plaster doesnt need a second. :P

I can only assume that you are joking or have been at the cooking Sherry. You need two coats for skimming on plasterboard. Maybe on a lightweight floated background you might get away with one heavy coat of Carlite Finish. It's all about quality. One coat will produce shrinkage at the tapered edges. I've seen all the stunts under the sun after almost 40 years of being a Plasterer.

Al Capwned

Spread wrote: »

I can only assume that you are joking or have been at the cooking Sherry. You need two coats for skimming on plasterboard. Maybe on a lightweight floated background you might get away with one heavy coat of Carlite Finish. It's all about quality. One coat will produce shrinkage at the tapered edges. I've seen all the stunts under the sun after almost 40 years of being a Plasterer.

+1 on this. Absolutely correct, Spread.

Mods - Sorry if ressurecting a dead thread, but I feel it important to dispel some of the rubbish being spouted.

Al.

Nolanger

For anyone still interested I got someone to look at it and he said there is a pipe vent in the ceiling running from the bathroom in the next room over the kitchen and out to the back wall. This must be leaking when the light in the bathroom is switched and the shower is running on which starts the bathroom ceiling vent fan to remove the condensation which goes through the pipe and leaks into the kitchen ceiling.