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Farm rent North Tipp: Advice?

  • 11-06-2011 8:52am
    #1
    markov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi there,

    I assume this kind of question has been covered a few times here but searched and can't seem to find an answer so any tips/pointers would be appreciated. This is a bit noob tbh so feel free to point out anything I've missed that's obvious.

    Anyway got a heads up that there's a small farm (about 50 acres) near us probably coming up soon for rent. It's all in grassland but the land is kinda mixed quality, about 12 of the acres would be wet the rest is good and dry. It's an old farm so cattle sheds are basic (i.e. no slats) but this isn't a problem for me as any cattle I'd be keeping would be just a few calves right now to get started with. There's also entitlements going with it, not too sure exactly how much they're worth, but we (i.e. the father and I) have both heard from someone that had it rented before that they're worth about 7K for the place.

    Background is I'm basically interested in setting up in farming before taking over the home farm in a few years so this place would suit, especially as I can only farm part time because I work outside the farm.

    Just wondering what the going rate for a short term lease (2 or 3 years up to 2013) might be in peoples opinion?


Comments

  • #2
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    im from north tipp, and the friend is renting 80 acres good land, he reseeded himself and fenced. Think hes paying 17k without entitlements. Know another lad renting for about 130/acre for good land, 30% wet. It ranges anywhere from 140-220 acre without entitlements around my area. Not sure at the moment looking for 30 ares meself, impossible to find around here. Id definitely move before its on the market, it will be hoovered up if it goes to an agent!!


  • #3
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    im from north tipp, and the friend is renting 80 acres good land, he reseeded himself and fenced. Think hes paying 17k without entitlements. Know another lad renting for about 130/acre for good land, 30% wet. It ranges anywhere from 140-220 acre without entitlements around my area. Not sure at the moment looking for 30 ares meself, impossible to find around here. Id definitely move before its on the market, it will be hoovered up if it goes to an agent!!

    Really not meaning to derail the thread but €17K+ reseeding and fencing... What period is that to cover??? What type of farming will he be doing to cover that and then hopefully leave a few bob for himself??


  • #4
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Hi Markov, welcome to boards, What is the fencing like? If you fence the bounds with permanant electric fencing, and agree to leave it there at the end of the lease that could be worth a years rent.

    Ballpark its worth 150/acre a yr + entitlements, Question is how much would you make out of it.

    It is probably too late for this years SFP since 31st of may. Ask dept if a late application can still go in, you will lose a % at best, at worst you won't get any.

    Best of luck with it.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #5
    markov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭markov


    Thanks for the comments lads, that's given me some idea of what I might be looking at.

    Fencing and stuff is fairly good tbf from what I've seen but that's a great idea - if/when it comes up no harm in seeing if they're up for something like that.

    Must get onto the dept first though to see what the story is with the payment might be.


  • #6
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    bbam wrote: »
    Really not meaning to derail the thread but €17K+ reseeding and fencing... What period is that to cover??? What type of farming will he be doing to cover that and then hopefully leave a few bob for himself??

    Me friend is paying this, 7 yr lease for intensive dairying!


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  • #7
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    bbam wrote: »
    Really not meaning to derail the thread but €17K+ reseeding and fencing... What period is that to cover??? What type of farming will he be doing to cover that and then hopefully leave a few bob for himself??

    In early 2009 I was bidding on a 7 year lease on 35 acres of average land in Longford. There were no facilities with it - not even a crush. Had it in my head that i would summer graze 15 cows and calves on it. I have 25 acres near home under the same herd number, upon which I have a slatted shed. I would use 2 cuts off the 25 acres to provide the silage for the winter.

    There was a SFP of €4500 on the 35 acred which had to be paid direct to the land owner on receiveing it - so it wasn't part of the auction. My very top line for paying for teh 35 acres was €9000. It started at €5000, I put it to €7000. Within a day it was at €8000, two days later it was at €9000. Two days after that it was at €11000. I was out. I spoke to the auctioneer a week later and asked what it made. I was shocked when he told me that it made €16500. How could anyone pay €16500 per year for 35 acres and still make a profit??????? Since then prices of €300 and €400 per acre don't shock me anymore.


  • #8
    JohnBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭JohnBoy


    What!!!!!!

    471 an acre?

    What!!!!!

    were they rearing golden geese on it?


  • #9
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    JohnBoy wrote: »
    What!!!!!!

    471 an acre?

    What!!!!!

    were they rearing golden geese on it?

    They must have been cracked!! At the time, you could have put it in for reps, but 35 acres wouldn't yield a whole lot from reps. I think 2 neighbours got stuck into it and just kept on bidding. Silly men!!


  • #10
    JohnBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭JohnBoy


    Any chance they'd be interested in 15 acres of west cork's finest? :)


  • #11
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    reilig wrote: »
    There was a SFP of €4500 on the 35 acred which had to be paid direct to the land owner on receiveing it - so it wasn't part of the auction. My very top line for paying for teh 35 acres was €9000. It started at €5000, I put it to €7000. Within a day it was at €8000, two days later it was at €9000. Two days after that it was at €11000. I was out. I spoke to the auctioneer a week later and asked what it made. I was shocked when he told me that it made €16500. How could anyone pay €16500 per year for 35 acres and still make a profit??????? Since then prices of €300 and €400 per acre don't shock me anymore.

    Where does this leave the land owner and the farmer renting the land between 2013 and 2016 since the SPF finishes in 2013?

    Since there is a **chance** that the farmer renting the land will own the entitlements as he's been claiming them and handing them over to the land owner. Is the land owner not in a way **selling** his entitlements over the 7 year lease ?


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  • #12
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Curious Geroge wrote: »
    Where does this leave the land owner and the farmer renting the land between 2013 and 2016 since the SPF finishes in 2013?

    Since there is a **chance** that the farmer renting the land will own the entitlements as he's been claiming them and handing them over to the land owner. Is the land owner not in a way **selling** his entitlements over the 7 year lease ?

    I thought there was an announcement a few weeks back that the SFP was going to be paid in 2014 and possibly 2015 in the same way as it is now?

    Anyway, back in 2009 at the time of this lease. The lease was to run from 2009 to 2015. They didn't know at the time that there would be a SFP in 2014 and 2015. So there was a clause in the agreement that the payment of SFP in 2014 and 2015 would have to be renegotiated for these 2 years.

    I suppose in a way, the landowner was selling his entitlements ove rthe life of the lease, but if you look at it, in 2009, entitlements were being sold for 2.5 times their value, whereas the farmer that put his land up for lease and leased out entitlements was going to get the full value of his entitlements back from the person leasing the land for at least 5 years!!


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