Opel engine timing

David09

I've just finished a head gasket job on a 00 1.4 opel astra.

Everything went smoothly and to plan, but on startup the car just doesn't sound right. It sounds really noisy running unevenly and cutting out.

I've set up the timing as according to autodata, but I'm just wondering if I may have mis-interpreted the instructions?

It gives timing marks as a pointer notch on bottom pulley to align with notch on plastic backing cover at roughly 5 or 6 o'clock positions. The cam pulleys should have their marks facing each other. I've double checked and the marks are bang-on.
Could I be reading the marks wrong???

Help!!!

Anybody???!!

Nissan doctor

Was cylinder 1 at TDC when you timed it?

The crank rotates twice for every 1 turn on the cam pulleys remember so when your cam pulleys are aligned, piston 1 should be at TDC, if its a BDC then your in trouble.

David09

Piston is at tdc. I removed a plug and checked.

It looks like it's half a tooth out, but that seems impossible as the pulleys are keyed to their shafts.

The two facing marks on the cams are almost together when I have the bottom lined up. If I bring them together the bottom appears out half a tooth.

If I set it up any other way it will be way out.

the merchant

When i first started mine last year it sounded like that, really rough and noisy. I left it tick over and after 5-10mins and it sorted itself out when the hydraulic tappets filled up.

David09

I thought of that alright. I drained some really awful gunge out of it as the water had mixed with the oil.
One part of me is saying to let it run and all will be ok, the other side of me is saying that I'll do damage to it. I've pulled the covers off about 5 times now and can't see anything obviously amiss.

Thanks so far for the advice, really appreciated.

Nissan doctor

The above may be the cause of the noise. Did you remove the tappets and store them in oil or just leave them in the head?

Did you fit the cams into the head and rotate them to the correct positions before you fitted the head or after?

David09

I didn't remove the cams. I sent the whole head with cams in situ to the engineering works to be skimmed. They removed and refitted them along with new seals. When refitting the head, I made sure that all pistons were level before fitting it, so to eliminate the possibility of torquing it down with open valves projected against pistons.
When timing, I carefully and slowly rotated the pulleys to ensure they didn't come together with any serious force.

David09

Oh, and when the car starts, it runs for about 30 seconds before the engine management light comes on. I've made positively certain that no wires are loose or disconnected.

Nissan doctor

David09 wrote: »

I didn't remove the cams. I sent the whole head with cams in situ to the engineering works to be skimmed. They removed and refitted them along with new seals. When refitting the head, I made sure that all pistons were level before fitting it, so to eliminate the possibility of torquing it down with open valves projected against pistons.
When timing, I carefully and slowly rotated the pulleys to ensure they didn't come together with any serious force.

You've covered what I was geting at so.

If you have checked and double checked the timing and are sure that nothing is disconnected then it would require further investigation for air leaks etc

Are the 2 cam pulleys the correct way around? IE they didn't put the exhaust pulley on the intake cam and vice versa?

David09

I've triple checked the timing and can say for sure that it's spot on. If it was any other way it would be out by at least a tooth.

Since posting, I've tracked some of the noise down to be the timing belt cover rubbing the bottom pulley. The original tensioner centre bolt had to be forcefully removed and was gouged up, so I replaced it with another similar one. Problem is that the head appears to be too long, and is pressing the cover outwards causing a grating noise as it rubs the pulley.

So, off to bed and try get another bolt in the morning!!!

It doesn't however explain the rough running.

The cam pulleys aren't interchangeable as there is a sensor pick-up one one of them which can only fit one way.

Thanks again for the help so far, much appreciated.

the merchant

Haha - I also damaged the tensioner bolt (Vice Grips Removal). I bought one from Airside Opel for 60c.

I also borrowed one of these cam locking tools for setting up the timing http://www.esska-tech.co.uk/esska_eng_s/camshaft_locking_tool_for_opel_astra_vec.html

If you're in doubt about the valve timing and you're in Dublin I'm sure I could get hold of it for you.

Lucifer

I have a timing tool for one. Also should have a bolt for the tensioner. If its driving ill also check the management light for you. I'm in south Dublin.

David09

After all the cursing, swearing and blinding, all is forgiven. I love opels...

Eh, not quite!

I sourced a correct bolt and the grating/grinding/squeaking noise has gone.
After running for a while, the roughness died out and the engine settled down to a quiet, smooth sound.
However, after starting it, the engine management light comes on after 30 seconds and the car idles at 1500 rpm.

Anyone have any ideas as to the cause?

Thanks for the help and offer of plugging-in. I'm located near Kilkenny, so alas it would be long drive to Dublin, but thanks all the same.

David09

Engine management light has gone out after a few miles of driving. The problem with the 2000 rpm idle remains... :mad:

Lucifer

First thing to check, there is a hose that goes from the valve located at the airbox to the throttle body. Make sure that is connected to the throttle body. Its for the fuel tank evaporative cannister.

Next possibility is a stuck EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve. Its located on the passenger end of the inlet manifold.

Next thing I would do Is check the throttle body and see if it needs to be cleaned. Is this a Z14XE or a X14XE engine or do you know? if your not sure PM me the reg and I'll tell you. If none of this helps Ill give you more ideas.

David09

Lucifer wrote: »

First thing to check, there is a hose that goes from the valve located at the airbox to the throttle body. Make sure that is connected to the throttle body. Its for the fuel tank evaporative cannister.

Next possibility is a stuck EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve. Its located on the passenger end of the inlet manifold.

Next thing I would do Is check the throttle body and see if it needs to be cleaned. Is this a Z14XE or a X14XE engine or do you know? if your not sure PM me the reg and I'll tell you. If none of this helps Ill give you more ideas.

I drove around for ages in it today. Driving around the block, back home to check stuff and around again. The problem was really baffling me.
I decided that the fault must be an air leak somewhere from below the throttle butterfly to inlet manifold gasket. I cringed at the thought at having to remove the whole manifold again to ensure it wasn't the gasket.
I cleaned the idle control solenoid valve, which was gummed up with a load of muck. I did the same to the egr valve. No joy.
I figured that If I put my finger over the idle valve orifice, that if there was an air leak that the car would stay running from air drawn from the leak. It cut out instantly.
In the end, after all, it turned out that the idle valve wasn't seating quite correctly, even after cleaning.
Remove, wipe around inside, refit, the car ran as good as gold.

I've driven it around a lot today since and am quite pleased with how it's turned out.

Thanks again to those for reading and posting replies.

For the advice and second opinions I am grateful.

shamwari

Great thread!

Not only is it nice to see someone stuck getting good helpful advice, but it's good to see that advice being genuinely appreciated.

David09

Unfortunately, this car has begun to give me grief again.

Everything was going well until a multitude of oil leaks began to develop.

I'm thinking that a breather must be blocked or else the oil is over-pressurising. It seems to be related to the head gasket issue as the oil and water had mixed and gone to brown sludge.

Any idea what could cause the above problems? Obviously, I changed the oil, but could an oil pressure valve have jammed up with all the sludge that was circulating and is there any other breather system besides the one on the rocker cover going to the air trunking???

Nissan doctor

You'd really need to narrow down where the leak is coming from to get a better idea what might be causing it. If its a bad leak, see can you get the engine steam washed and then look for where the leak starts again.

Mar4ix

if there is no oil cooler..... small box, where coolant cools down oil(sometimes get leak inside).... not sure it was on these kind opels, then leaking coolant in to oil could be caused by engine head crack (when skimming in machine shop, you shall ask them check for leaks .. (well its extra around 40 quid , but worth it) could be wrong gasket , or wrong way installed, then head bolts had to be right way bolted and right torqued.
try re torque head bolts, might it'll help

the merchant

Well, how did you get on OP? My suspicion is that the head had to come off again - i hope I'm wrong.

sohappy

Mar4ix wrote: »

if there is no oil cooler..... small box, where coolant cools down oil(sometimes get leak inside).... not sure it was on these kind opels, then leaking coolant in to oil could be caused by engine head crack (when skimming in machine shop, you shall ask them check for leaks .. (well its extra around 40 quid , but worth it) could be wrong gasket , or wrong way installed, then head bolts had to be right way bolted and right torqued.
try re torque head bolts, might it'll help

Yeah I was thinking that too, did the op get the head pressure tested? or just skimmed!

David09

the merchant wrote: »

Well, how did you get on OP? My suspicion is that the head had to come off again - i hope I'm wrong.

Apologies for not replying.

All seems to be well with this now since I cleaned out a breather pipe.

There is a black steel pipe carrying oil fumes up from the crankcase to the rocker cover. It had choked solid with sh!t from before the head gasket was done. The result was that the fumes were building up in the bottom end, forcing the fumes and oil out through the crankshaft and other seals.

Since I've cleaned it, all appears well, although the car revs very high when cold before settling down to a smooth idle.

Is this normal and just the warm-up phase????

O.A.P

David09 wrote: »

Apologies for not replying.

All seems to be well with this now since I cleaned out a breather pipe.

There is a black steel pipe carrying oil fumes up from the crankcase to the rocker cover. It had choked solid with sh!t from before the head gasket was done. The result was that the fumes were building up in the bottom end, forcing the fumes and oil out through the crankshaft and other seals.

Since I've cleaned it, all appears well, although the car revs very high when cold before settling down to a smooth idle.

Is this normal and just the warm-up phase????

Mine sometimes revs up to 1500 when cold but falls back to 1000 after a minute or two, it only happens maybe 1 in 10 times and has done so for the last 7 years. (same car by the way)