Accompanied Driver

DodgeyKeeper

I know you can be prosecuted for not having a full licensed driver present while having a provisional but :

1.Does anyone know if this is actually enforced by the gardai?

2.If involved in a crash without a fully licensed driver can the insurance company refuse to pay out?

**Timbuk2**

DodgeyKeeper wrote: »

I know you can be prosecuted for not having a full licensed driver present while having a provisional but :

1.Does anyone know if this is actually enforced by the gardai?

It's not enforced often but it has been enforced before. I know of at least two people that have been fined (not sure if they were brought to court, probably). One of them was pulled over by a guard waiting at a secondary school, the other was just at a checkpoint (I think!)

DodgeyKeeper wrote: »

2.If involved in a crash without a fully licensed driver can the insurance company refuse to pay out?

No, they can't refuse to pay, but they may only pay the third party, regardless of your level of cover (i.e. won't pay for your damage). I think they can claim back the costs off you, but I'm not positive and I've never heard of it happening.

Having said that, is there anything apart from your own opinion of your driving that makes you think you are experienced and competent enough to drive without a fully licenced driver?

DodgeyKeeper

Thanks for the response timbuk2. I was just asking out of pure curiosity. I'm only starting out anyway so i know my level of confidence/skill is not at the required level yet to be off on my own

thesparkyhound

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

It's not enforced often but it has been enforced before. I know of at least two people that have been fined (not sure if they were brought to court, probably). One of them was pulled over by a guard waiting at a secondary school, the other was just at a checkpoint (I think!)



No, they can't refuse to pay, but they may only pay the third party, regardless of your level of cover (i.e. won't pay for your damage). I think they can claim back the costs off you, but I'm not positive and I've never heard of it happening.

Having said that, is there anything apart from your own opinion of your driving that makes you think you are experienced and competent enough to drive without a fully licenced driver?

I still dont see how a full licensed driver would be able to help. Im fully licensed but dont think it would be fair to get into a car with a learner as Im not a qualified instructor.

**Timbuk2**

thesparkyhound wrote: »

I still dont see how a full licensed driver would be able to help. Im fully licensed but dont think it would be fair to get into a car with a learner as Im not a qualified instructor.

I'm also fully licenced (but have only had full licence just over a year so can't act as accompanied driver) but a learner driver is new to driving, and while they may be physically able to control the car, an inexperienced driver may not notice hazards developing and may as a result not react in time. A fully licenced driver sitting in the car (who we assume is more experienced than the learner due to the 2 year rule) may notice these and can say something to the driver, which may help prevent a collision/incident.

However, a learner driver driving on their own may not be fully competent at controlling the car (if they could pass the test, they would do the test - the waiting times are very short now, even shorter if you get a cancellation slot), so some of their attention can be taken away from the road by worrying about gears and thinking which mirrors to look into.

A fully licenced driver will be constantly scanning the road ahead, on the look out for any hazards developing. It's nothing to do with the physical speed of your reactions (for example young people can respond very quickly to simple stimuli like light and noise) but it's more to do with the learner's ability to identify and respond to hazards - inexperienced drivers can typically have slow reactions to traffic hazards.

As this ability to detect hazards is learned over time (like any other skill) it depends on experience. The more experienced you are the more sensitive you are to early indications to a possible trouble - as risks arise an experienced driver will monitor them subconsciously so as they can be ready to respond quickly if the situation develops dangerously! An inexperienced learner driver probably won't be as efficient at observing for potential risks, and without a fully licenced driver beside them, they may not notice the warning signs and only react when it's too late.

There's also more obvious reasons such as the full licenced driver being able to take over if the learner gets overwhelmed, and that it's required by law!

cosmic

thesparkyhound wrote: »

I still dont see how a full licensed driver would be able to help.

If the driver is unable to complete a manouver such as parking you can step in and take over. If the driver has to start on a hill and the car starts to roll you can grab and pull the handbrake, then help them take off properly. In a more extreme examlpe, if the driver loses control of the car you can lean over and grab the wheel.

A filly licensed (aka experienced) driver can help in a vast number of ways. The above are only three examples.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

matt70iu

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's true. It's why insurance premiums in the UK shoot up when an inexperienced driver passes their test. The opposite happens here, probably because so many learners drive on their own well before any driving test has been passed:)

If you're a learner caught alone in the Uk, the car is seized, end of story. I think it will be many years before we will be even able to enforce such a policy here.

thesparkyhound

Hmmm maybe so indeed. I just remember how annoying it was to try get enough experience to pass the test and do so by not breaking laws.

matt70iu

thesparkyhound wrote: »

Hmmm maybe so indeed. I just remember how annoying it was to try get enough experience to pass the test and do so by not breaking laws.

I know what ya mean. I think the mindset needs to change here. You don't go for driving lessons, you go to a driving school.

For example, you go to a 2 week driving course and are taught how to drive. At the end of it, you then have the option of sitting your test. There are such schools in ireland, but the cost is massive, generally in a lump sum too.

That's what happens in Finland for example, so pupils can get their driving hours up, under the safe supervision of an instructor.

Mister Jingles

Before I started driving I could never get my head around the whole accompanied driver thing, in fact I thought it was a load of bull. BUT as soon as I started driving I could understand why there is such a rule.

Having the extra pair of eyes in the car really helps and the reassurance of an experienced driver (well in my case) is also a comfort.

There does get a stage though when a driver can drive on his own while still on a permit but sure I suppose that would make a full licence pointless.

matt70iu

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Before I started driving I could never get my head around the whole accompanied driver thing, in fact I thought it was a load of bull. BUT as soon as I started driving I could understand why there is such a rule.

Having the extra pair of eyes in the car really helps and the reassurance of an experienced driver (well in my case) is also a comfort.

There does get a stage though when a driver can drive on his own while still on a permit but sure I suppose that would make a full licence pointless.

Exactly, so when a driver on a learner feels like they could drive on their own, they should get lessons to fine tune their driving and take their test.

It should be left to your instructor to decide when you are ready to take your test and once you pass, then you can drive on your own. The guards just don't have the resources to seize the car of every learner driving alone.

One guard told me that if they were to do that, they would have no space to take the cars of those caught with no tax or insurance for example. It would need to be out sourced so that the car would be stored at a private depot and could be collected on payment of a fine.

Mister Jingles

matt70iu wrote: »

Exactly, so when a driver on a learner feels like they could drive on their own, they should get lessons to fine tune their driving and take their test.

It should be left to your instructor to decide when you are ready to take your test and once you pass, then you can drive on your own. The guards just don't have the resources to seize the car of every learner driving alone.

One guard told me that if they were to do that, they would have no space to take the cars of those caught with no tax or insurance for example. It would need to be out sourced so that the car would be stored at a private depot and could be collected on payment of a fine.

I suppose those doing EDT will have there instructors decide if 12 is enough or not ? Even though I'm not doing EDT I'm still going to leave the decision to him.

Fuinseog

DodgeyKeeper wrote: »

I know you can be prosecuted for not having a full licensed driver present while having a provisional but :

1.Does anyone know if this is actually enforced by the gardai?

2.If involved in a crash without a fully licensed driver can the insurance company refuse to pay out?

You breaking the law and then getting involved in an accident does not look good.
The authorities are starting to enforce laws. it is laughable what we can get away with in this country.
I can more or less drive but I still need someone to tell me what to do in certain situations. You are not like cyclists who seem to be exempt from any laws. You and your machine have the power to do a lot of damage.