is talk cheap or should i hold out a bit longer...

mollybird

with my OH now going on 5 years this aug. we have had the chat over the last 2 years of us getting engaged but still no sign of any ring. both our mothers have been wondering the same why we not engaged yet but he still not gotten down to doing it.

this guy is absoulutly amazing. he's my best friend, and still fancy him like crazy and makes me laugh like no one else. ive finished college last year and stayed in ireland to be with him and didn't go over sea's like some of my classmates to find work. i'm still struggling to find work in my field and at this rate am wondering when is he going to commit to his half of the relationship.

we are both 32 and most people or age are married or engaged or having kids. his best mate said he would have a word in his ear discreatly bout what was going on at a stag they were at 2 weeks ago but kinda got the feeling he didn't get round to it.

we are heading away in july for a few days but some how i get the feeling he not going to do it then either. know will have to have the conversation with him but don't know if ill have the guts to go through with it:(

p.s i'm sick of poeple saying enjoy what you have, but how can i enjoy something when i would clearly like something else.

I am a friend

Its tough...

I dont think however getting his friend to talk to him or dragging his friend into it at all is a good idea... Not being smart, but what does that say about the relationship? It makes it look like you have serious communication issues and why do you want to marry someone you cant communicate with on all levels?

I know you love him very much but he really is not pulling his weight in the relationship. Have you talked about kids and whether or not ye want them? Do you both want them inside marriage? How many kids?

This is such a common thread from girls and I find it so frustrating. Why are you waiting for him to call the shots? Why are you waiting for him to pick you? You discussed it 2 years ago, you told him it was important to you and he still has done nothing...

If you want to be able to communicate for life you need to be able to talk about stuff like this... I would talk to him and ask him whats going on. I would not give him an ultimatum but listen to what he says, take time to think about it and set a timeline in your own head by which time he needs to act. If he doesnt, you would need to be able to walk away cos he never will otherwise.

Something is stopping him committing. You dont need that [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL] after 5 years but in a way you are facilitating it.

I would never marry someone I had to beg so maybe its time to think if this guy, who has a proven inability to act, is the man for you. Talk to him.

Good luck.

Miss Fluff

I agree, I don't quite "get" why you're involving your mother, his mother and then his friend as well. Personally I couldn't be involved in coercing someone into marrying me, he either wants to or not. Rather than communicating your anxiety to them isn't it about time that you discussed this with him? It's a decision that involves the two of you after all so I'm confused as to why you can't speak to him directly about it....

LegacyUser

Could have written verbatim your post 6months ago.
The whole reason you're NOT communicating to him, is because you've already had that conversation~2years ago, & it's that sort of conversation you'd kind of expect him to remember, right?!
It's demoralising& demeaning to have to ask someone to, basically, "put a ring on it". And really, you shouldn't have to.
It's easy for this guy to be the best boyfriend ever; he has no worries (ie: nagging about wedding bells), no responsibilities to you as a couple (mortgage, kids).
I don't think his best friend forgot to discuss it with him- it's serious enough not to forget. More likely he heard something you wouldn't want to hear.
Not being funny with you OP, but you really don't have the time to wait for this guy to faff around much longer. 32 is young, yes, but if things go bellyup& you're back on the dating scene, you're looking at mid-late 30's for kids- which is riskier (infertility, Downs, ect ect). This isn't scare mongering; it's medical fact.
You have to decide what's more important, YOU, or this relationship. Have a conversation- not an ultimatum- if things aren't progressing within the next 3 months (come on, he's had 5years already), that's your answer.

fungun

you dont say if you have spoken about the thought of marriage/kids etc. Or you dont say how committed his actions say he is (i.e. are you already living together? does he support you financially if you stayed in Ireland to be with him?)

If you are in a happy, committed relationship where you are both in love, why do you need to be married to feel any better? Perhaps he is happy as it is. Have you spoken to him on this? Does he even know this is making you unhappy?

rbag

Hiya,

Been in a similiar situation but left the guy. Regret not walking sooner as am in my mid 30's single and no kids and have missed out on it all because I spent too much time on someone who wouldn't commit.

You've had the chat, five years is a long time, and you are putting his life before yours to your detriment.

I'd walk away to be honest. I don't mean to be harsh but if he wanted to, he would ask.

Chips Lovell

Why are you waiting for him to bring it up? If this is what you want, ask him yourself.

MissFlitworth

mollybird wrote: »

we are heading away in july for a few days but some how i get the feeling he not going to do it then either. know will have to have the conversation with him but don't know if ill have the guts to go through with it:(

It doesn't have to be a big angsty conversation though, why don't you bring it up tonight and not let it dangle over your head anymore? 'I want to get married, more specifically I really want to be married to you. I know we've talked about it before but I really feel like we're ready for this, is there something holding you back?' Being open with him about how you're feeling has to be better than being upset all the time & potentially walking away from a relationship because he hasn't proposed and you're too afraid to ask why

Definitely stop involving your mothers & friends in it though. If I remember your previous threads on this your partner is kinda shy, he probably really wouldn't appreciate the subtle word in the ear from his best friend approach

Neyite

OP, I am 36, and 7 years with my bloke so I kind of get where you are coming from –Like you have I am sure, I have mammies and aunties wanting to know when ‘the big day out’ or ‘when would they get to buy a hat’ etc. I have had siblings pressure us to get married and have kids for cousins to their kids. It can hurt when people say these things, because a bit like you, I looked around at all the people settling down and wondered “why not us?”

We have talked – he simply does not see marriage as anything special. He sees true commitment in a mortgage for the next 30 years with me, or raising a family together. He is not against the idea, just not something he thinks of because it’s not important to him, as it wont change what we have from his point of view.

Its not about getting married for me – its about getting married to him. I would be happy with a lunchtime registry office, or eloping so its not that I want the big wedding. I just want to be his wife. I thought about ultimatums, but that is not really my style, neither did I want to be one of these girls who march a bloke into a jewellers and demand an engagement – if its for us, then it is for the two of us, not just because its something I want and he does to get some peace and quiet.

So, the choice for me boiled down to this –do you want a wedding, or do you want him? If you could not have both, what would you choose? Which is more important to you?

I asked myself these questions and I chose to stay, ring or not.Like you my man is absolutely amazing and my best friend. In short he is the One. I am not sitting around waiting for a proposal though. If we never ever get married then I am at peace with that decision to stay.

Judes

I wasted 6 years on somebody - he talked the talk - (with coaxing) but then "he" walked - without an explanation at all.

So you have to take a lot into account and only you really know this man and whether he is being truthful to you or just trying to placate you to save confrontation. Everybody I know - family - friends - work colleagues - have since said to me the signs were all there and he was never going to make a commitment. He was and probably always will be the bachelor boy living at home with his mother (he's nearly 46) and spending all his money on new gadgets or burying himself in a book or course. A sad existence to escape the reality of life and living.

I am so much happier now - feel free - as I'm not constantly walking on eggshells and worried about "when". My social life is fantastic and I'm not sitting around waiting to see if he will turn up, let me down, show any signs of doing anything towards our future. My future is now about exactly that - "MY FUTURE"

You are only 32 now - he doesn't have to put an expensive ring on your finger -but a ring is a public show of commitment to you. And if you are thinking of having children - you don't want to be too old to do so. I'd hate to think of any other girl out there wasting time on a no hoper. I got as far as booking a venue for a small wedding i.e. just the two of us (which he'd agreed to). Then after I did that, he announced to me that he felt pressurised and the only reason I wanted to get married was that all my friends were getting married. (I reminded him that my friends have been getting married for the past 25years - I'm almost 47 now).

Best of luck but be strong with what you want out of the relationship and make sure your partner knows it! But this is your decision - don't just leave it to him.

LegacyUser

eh why dont you propose to him with a barn brack ring or something.

Women fought for equality for years and now they have it they still expect the age of chivalry and white knights.

If you love him that much then u propose, if he wants it he will say yes, if not well then start to think about being with him.....

mollybird

fungun wrote: »

you dont say if you have spoken about the thought of marriage/kids etc. Or you dont say how committed his actions say he is (i.e. are you already living together? does he support you financially if you stayed in Ireland to be with him?)

If you are in a happy, committed relationship where you are both in love, why do you need to be married to feel any better? Perhaps he is happy as it is. Have you spoken to him on this? Does he even know this is making you unhappy?[/QUOT

fungun,
ya we have spoken about kids, marraige etc. we are living together a year now and he is supporting me some bit finacially when needed. as i said he is a great guy. he knows how it's made me unhappy, you just had to see me at the last 3 weddings we were at last year to know. i don't want to push him either but if he has changed his mind he could tell me. i don't think that is it though as we have openly spoken about where we would like to go on our honeymoon and idea's he would like for his stag.

he did say intially when we spoke about the next level that he wanted us to live together for a bit. ive done that and it's working great. just don't know what else i can do. am sick of people asking me has he popped the question yet. why do the women always get bumbarded with that question???

I am a friend

mollybird wrote: »

he knows how it's made me unhappy, you just had to see me at the last 3 weddings we were at last year to know.

You say you dont want to push him but you are talking to his friend about it, asking the friend to have a word in his ear, talking to his family and it appears making your feelings known at weddings... Thats not on and to be frank its very infantile...

Sit HIM down, ask him if or when he sees this happening and not just in a general way as you have been doing. Face to face is the only way...

seenitall

I am a friend wrote: »

Sit HIM down, ask him if or when he sees this happening and not just in a general way as you have been doing. Face to face is the only way...

I am guessing the OP has a reason for not doing this, the reason being the fear of what she might hear in that conversation. Plus the fear of coming across as a needy nag; so the roundabout, passive-agressive approach can seem like the best. But it's not (obviously): the OP is steaming in her juice, while the b/f is happily coasting along. This is what comes of surrendering the power to make one's future to someone who can't be all that bothered.

First of all, OP, you have to sit down with yourself and decide exactly what you want from your relationship and your life. And then go for it. It really is that simple, but it can take a lot of courage at certain points in life. That moment seems to have come for you. You need to decide whether you can live with this guy and no marriage, or leave this guy and look for someone who will want the same things out of life as you do.

The answer to your title question is, of course: yes, talk is VERY cheap, dirt cheap in fact. I advise you to choose to put a better value on your future than the price of talk.

dory

I agree with the above. Don't wait forever if marriage is what you want. I have an aunt who waited and waited and finally told him to get lost around her 60th birthday - obviously too late for kids. If children are important to you you have to take the necessary steps to get there.
But, as has also been said above - I wouldn't even think about marrying someone I couldn't discuss this openly with.

LegacyUser

el tonto wrote: »

Why are you waiting for him to bring it up? If this is what you want, ask him yourself.

It's a bigger risk for a woman to ask someone to marry them than it is for a man. Ask a man to marry you, few years down the line you have kids and he could say to you 'Well I feel I was pushed into this', walk away and leave you with the responsibility of rearing the kids.

I would prefer to know that the man really wanted to get married and have children, and that means he would have to ask.

Otis Driftwood

unregistered wrote: »

It's a bigger risk for a woman to ask someone to marry them than it is for a man. Ask a man to marry you, few years down the line you have kids and he could say to you 'Well I feel I was pushed into this', walk away and leave you with the responsibility of rearing the kids.

I would prefer to know that the man really wanted to get married and have children, and that means he would have to ask.

In fairness,there is nothing to stop a woman doing that either.

Even if the man did ask,he may feel like he is being pressured into or that he has to ask so its really not as black and white as you seem to think.

LegacyUser

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

In fairness,there is nothing to stop a woman doing that either.

Even if the man did ask,he may feel like he is being pressured into or that he has to ask so its really not as black and white as you seem to think.

A woman would still have to carry a child for nine months and give birth at the end of it (and everything else that goes along with pregnancy). Why would any woman do that for a man who may or may not be sure of getting married and having kids? That would be my reason why I would never ask a man to marry me. Other people probably have their own opinions.

If the guy is pressured into getting married and having kids, well then the woman is just shooting herself in the foot. You need someone by your side who will support you when things get tough, not someone who resents you. So I'm not a fan of pressurising a man into marriage and it's silly to assume that just because I would never ask a man to marry me that I would pressurise a man into doing so.

Otis Driftwood

Oh Im well aware of the inherent risks of pregnancy for the woman,I wasnt talking about that.What I ment was in relation to you saying the man could upsticks and abandon their family,women can do that too,its not a male only thing to do.

I am a friend

sunflower27 wrote: »

I'd imagine that the vast majority of men that have left their wives and children for other women or to be single actually proposed.

But in the cases I know of, on foot of an ultimatum / pressure from the wife (and families) to get married in the first place... Its not excuse cos they should have had the balls to say no but hindsight is wonderful...

A lot of men seem to have this notion that women are out to trap them and yet, funnily, I see from my friends husbands that they get more settled / set in their ways when they get married than the women do...

I actually think that by the OP acting as she is, she is putting him off her. A lot of her actions are very maipulative e.g. sulking at the weddings and maybe he has doubts on foot of this behaviour. I know I would have.

LegacyUser

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Oh Im well aware of the inherent risks of pregnancy for the woman,I wasnt talking about that.What I ment was in relation to you saying the man could upsticks and abandon their family,women can do that too,its not a male only thing to do.

I agree with that myself. Men and women are equally as trustworthy/untrustworthy, one side is not better than the other.
In hindsight I should have stated that the risks (and the support that one would need) inherent in pregnancy itself would be a reason that many women would never ask a man to marry them. I posted in a response to a message that told the OP she should ask her other half to marry her. I've heard that argument many a time, and I really don't think it's a practical solution for the reason I've just outlined.

OP, you'll have to have a very open and frank discussion with your partner about what you want. Dropping hints isn't going to work, and getting other people to drop hints is only going to put him under pressure. You need to know once and for all if the two of you want the same thing.

Otis Driftwood

sunflower27 wrote: »

I'd imagine that the vast majority of men that have left their wives and children for other women or to be single actually proposed.

Surely thats because in the vast majority of marriages it was the man that proposed anyway.

S23

It's as simple as you needing to talk to him. It doesn't really go beyond that. You're talking about wanting to marry a man you don't seem to be able to adequately communicate with.

You had a chat with him two years ago. That's fine things were said and a rough outline of where things were headed. He spoke about wanting to live together before moving things on. The OP agreed to this I'm guessing? This, presumably, means that moving in together has only occured in the space of the intervening two years.

Personally I find all this talk of surrending control of your future and 'facilitating' his behaviour extremely disengeneous. There is nothing to suggest that this bloke is afraid of commitment, putting the OP on the long finger or generally stringing her along. They were together 3 years when they first mentioned marriage. The boyfriend, very sensibly IMO, said we really need to live together for a while first before we go to the next level. They've started living together in the space of the last 2 years. The man has been with her for 5 years, spoke about marriage within the last 2 years, moved in with her since then and is finacially supporting her to some degree. I see nothing sinsiter in this at all.

There seems to be far too much concern in this thread, from various sources, about what Mammys think, about what Aunties think and about a public show of commitment to you. I really don't think it's too healthy to let what other people think or say to you impact on your attitude to your relationship so much. Why do you care so much what these people say? Honestly who gives a fu*k? I'd never dream of letting something another person said influence my relationship in any way. You seem to be massively concerned about people asking you when you're going to get married for some reason.

For the record whoever said that a ring is some kind of public show of commitment is miles off. Talk is cheap and just as equally gestures can be cheap. There are plenty of men shagging other women while their wives looking at their sparkly ring at home. He seems to be perfectly commited to you. Dating for a few years, had a chat about where things were headed, agreed (and still does from what I can tell) that marriage was on the cards down the line, wanted to move in together first, has done that, supports you financially.

Anyway if you're that desperate to get married, desperate being the operative word, then talk to him about it again. Don't set his best friend, your Aunt, his Aunt, the milkman, the window cleaner or anyone else on him. Sit down and talk to him one-to-one about your relationship and how it's progressed since you had your last deep and meanginful a couple of years ago. You could easily say 'look we talked about living together before we got married, we've done that now and we get on great I think we're ready for marriage and kids'. These are conversations you should be well capable of having with someone you're intent on marrying

I am a friend

S23 wrote: »

You could easily say 'look we talked about living together before we got married, we've done that now and we get on great I think we're ready for marriage and kids'.

This is a really good conversation opener.

seenitall

Hi OP,

I stand by my earlier post it terms of general conduct but S23 makes some good points, to the gist of: don't jump the gun, have the talk without recriminations but directly and clearly, and see what he says. If he's all about stalling and procrastinating, I just hope you'll be able to recognise that and remember talk is cheap, that's all. But he may pleasantly surprise you, and I hope he does!

In any case, yes, DO YOUR OWN TALKING. There is nothing to be scared of in direct communication. If you want your future to begin, you have to start somewhere, and having a go-between would count as a very poor start!

Best wishes, OP.

deisemum

The person you should be discussing this with is your boyfriend, not the mammies or his friend.

Don't give ultimatums just hear what he has to say but I think you should consider having some date in the back of your mind by which you want to see wedding plans as it's important to you and if he's stalling and not prepared to commit by that date then you have your answer.

As mentioned earlier there's nothing stopping you from proposing. I proposed to my husband 5 months after meeting him 23 years ago and have been married for over 21 years. I didn't put pressure on him to marry me.

Judes

S23 it was me who suggested a "public form of commitment" - as I said I was 6 years waiting and waiting and promises being made - and I made it quite clear that I didn't need/want an engagement ring, I thought it a bit of a waste of money, especially at our age - as I believed that we were just going to go off quietly to Scotland to get married - no fuss - no huge expense - no interference - just a commitment between two people. But it didn't happen - I was left very humiliated - and a public commitment would have saved the 6 years of questions I too had to face from friends and families. I agree talk is cheap - and a ring be it diamond or a wedding ring does't mean it will last forever........... but it shows you are willing to try! There was no great issue at the beginning - as we were obviously not going to have children at our age but as time went by and I supported him through health issues and various other problems - (to the detriment of my own health) I now realise - if they can't show you a proper form of commitment within the first few years - then it just won't happen. Don't pussyfoot around the situation - just have that conversation - it's better to know now - and then you can both aim for the same things together - or you can walk away and move on with your life. (And I say this tongue in cheek - if I'd had a ring of some sort - I could have sold the damn thing and gone on a get over him holiday )

S23

Hey Judes (sorry couldn't resist it )

Apologies if it seemd like I was having a go at your directly. Honestly it was more a case that I was a bit incredulous having read through the thread.

I take the points of what you are saying. I just felt, when typing my reply, that the overall tone of a lot of the replies was that this guy was leading her on or wasting her time. I just couldn't see any evidence of that in what the OP had posted. I think their relationship would be considered quite healthy apart from he sulking at weddings and being totally reluctant to say stuff to him 1 on 1.

We can make no guarantees of what he will or won't say if she talks to him. He might not want to marry or he might be right up for it. She simply has to speak to him to find out one way or another. Aunties, best friends as intermediaries and silent resentment when this lad has done nothing wrong isn't the way to go!

Anyway apologies again if any offence was caused to you personally.

Judes

Hey S23 - no probs - no offence taken - relationships - don't they just wear us all out both physically and mentally. Yes, these two have to just sit down and talk - my fear is that one day they'll wake up and be 42 and still no conversation still no change. But thanks for what you said - I do appreciate it!

pajunior

You need to communicate to him what you want.

If it's kids you want tell him that.

If it's a wedding you want tell him that.

If the two of you disagree on something then one of you is going to have to make a compromise or else end it.

Also for your own sake don't break up with him over the wedding if the only reason you really want it is pressure from society. That would be real waste.