Neighbours from hell!

Tauriel

I need a bit of advice!

We have a GSD that is nearly a year old and he is an outside dog. Today I saw the neighbours hanging their 1-ish year old son over our back wall. This wall is approx 6 foot tall. We have a beware of guard dog sign by the gate.

So I was wondering would we be responsible if they dropped the child into the garden and our dog attacked? Please bear in mind our GSD is of a very good nature and loves children, but we are thinking of a worse case scenario.

are you serious

I'd try get a pic of this from inside your house so they dont see, then i would get onto the HSE and the Gardai about their stupid behaviour.

This is your private back garden and they through their child are invading your space.

If by some freak one off chance you dog decided they were coming too far into his space and worst case as you said something did happen you can guarantee they would want your dog pts!

Discodog

If your dog bites someone, even on your property, it can be deemed a dangerous dog & be put down.

Any liability for injuries etc would be a matter for the Court.

Tauriel

Unfortunately I was nowhere near a camera at the time. Our dog was asleep in the garden doing nothing to no one. TBH I think any other GSD would of jumped to get the child but as I said our dog loves kids

Discodog

It's probably no different than the situation if a burglar came into your garden. He is in the wrong but he can sue you if your dog bites him & the dog can end up being put down.

TooManyDogs

Bloody hell!!! What stupid parents. (Had to get that off my chest)

Firstly it doesn't matter how good your dogs are about kids, anyone coming over a wall can set off protective instincts in any dog because it's not the normal way people come into their environment so it needs to stop immediately. I would suggest a knock on the door and tell them you'd be delighted for their kid to play with your dog (if you are) but please call around rather than lean over the wall. If this doesn't go down well or you see it happening again I'd go to the gardai and report what happened so at least if, god forbid, the worst happens and your startled dog nips the child you have proof that you had reported what was happening before an incident occured.

My sis in law house sits when we're away and she came around when we due home, forgot her keys and decided to climb in the open window and wait for us. My dogs wouldnt' let her in, despite knowing her so well. As far as they're concerned people simply don't come in to the house via the window!

Discodog

I agree regarding the Guards. I would go a stage further & get something to prove that you have advised the Guards. Maybe go to your local station & explain the situation & get them to give you some kind of acknowledgement like an incident number. Don't mention the dog but use another excuse like the child falling.

Another alternative would be a nicely worded letter, love to see the child etc but that any trespass must stop & that you cannot be held liable for the consequences. Again don't mention the dog as it might be implied that you know the dog poses a risk. Ideally the letter should be posted by recorded delivery so that you have proof that they received it.

All of this advice may seem extreme & an incident will probably never happen but it is better to cover yourself.

Gremlin

If you have to go down the route of contacting the Gardai, just make sure your dog licence is in date, they may ask.

Gremlin

Sorry meant to add to the last post, personally I would have gone outside and asked them what the hell they think they're at.

mikemac

Definitely go to the garda station

Don't go in demanding action but maybe ask advice.
Try to get them to take a record of it or at least get a card of the garda with their name and their rank. You write the time and date on the card when you get home

are you serious

On reading back over my earlier post i may have shot to assumptions a little quick and in the red mist of reading that message I jumped on the defensive a bit too much I think

So i'm gona look at it from their side for this reply
Could it have been possible for them to want to get their child to see that dogs are fun and not frightening, as they know your dog is not aggressive?

In addition to this, how well do you get on with your neighbour? Would it be possible to knok into them and have a chat about it?

Gremlin

garkane wrote: »

Could it have been possible for them to want to get their child to see that dogs are fun and not frightening, as they know your dog is not aggressive?

Hanging a child over a fence is no way to deal with a fearful child. My next door neighbour's little one is terrified of dogs. (With her mum in tow) we invited her into the garden in her own time to meet our little fella to show her there was no need to be afraid. In no time at all she was sitting down beside him petting him.

Sounds to me that the OP's neighbours shouldn't be allowed keep a goldfish nevermind a child.

lastlaugh

In fairness OP, they are hardly 'Neighbours from Hell'!
If they were firing stones at your dog or something well then maybe.

It was definitely irresponsible of them, no question about that.

I would strongly advise you NOT to take photos or go to the Guards or any of that tbh, you might aswell maintain a friendly 'neighbourly' relationship with them if you have one already.

If I were you I would put a small trellis to the top of the wall where you saw them with their kid. They should get the message then. If they do it somewhere else, trellis the whole wall.

are you serious

Gremlin wrote: »

Hanging a child over a fence is no way to deal with a fearful child.

There's nothing to say the child was in fear from the original post. I do agree with you that it is not the right thing to do, not at all.

But looking into it again even further I know if my son(2) asked me to pick him up and to show him the doggy I actually would lift him up to see, I'm not sure I'd dangle him down but I 100% would let him see the dog so maybe thats just exactly what happened!!?

mikemac

lastlaugh wrote: »

I would strongly advise you NOT to take photos or go to the Guards or any of that tbh, you might aswell maintain a friendly 'neighbourly' relationship with them if you have one already.

The neighbors won't even know about the report to the gardaí. It's just for the OP to do so if the child ever gets hurt in the back garden, well the OP can point what happened in the past

lastlaugh

mikemac wrote: »

The neighbors won't even know about the report to the gardaí. It's just for the OP to do so if the child ever gets hurt in the back garden, well the OP can point what happened in the past

It just seems a bit OTT to go to the guards tbh, given that the dog and the child are so young. But I can see your point.

It could be an idea to stick a trellis along the wall now though given there will inevitably be balls flying over the wall in a few years.

I wouldn't fancy hopping into a garden with a GS in there to get my ball!

the_syco

Possible scenario: kids drops into the garden, starts to cry. Dog comes over to investigate the noise, parents see dog, and create commotion to scare dog away. Dog sees it as a game, and gets excited. Parents enters, and dog sees strangers trespassing on the dogs property, and barks at them. Parents do something stupid (like, I don't know, attack the GSD), and GSD bites them.

Over the top, maybe, but better nip it in the bud and tell the neighbours not to do it again, as if baby dropped, the fall may hurt her at such a young age.

lastlaugh

the_syco wrote: »

Possible scenario: kids drops into the garden, starts to cry. Dog comes over to investigate the noise, parents see dog, and create commotion to scare dog away. Dog sees it as a game, and gets excited. Parents enters, and dog sees strangers trespassing on the dogs property, and barks at them. Parents do something stupid (like, I don't know, attack the GSD), and GSD bites them.

Over the top, maybe, but better nip it in the bud and tell the neighbours not to do it again, as if baby dropped, the fall may hurt her at such a young age.

Trellis or fence the whole wall and be done with it.
I had terrible trouble with the neighbours kids (on both sides) a few years ago when I moved into our house first. We didn't have a dog to worry about but the garden was like a building site. No matter how many times I told them not to come into the garden, a ball would come over, and then a kid would come after it. I ended up roaring at them and was really stressed out. I got 6' fences and trellis on both walls which stand about 8' from the ground and I now have privacy thank God.
(Phew! Sorry for ranting)

Galway K9

Discodog wrote: »

If your dog bites someone, even on your property, it can be deemed a dangerous dog & be put down.

Any liability for injuries etc would be a matter for the Court.

If you disclose your dog as a gaurd dog in your home insurance your covered, dunno if you need gaurd dog license for this tho.

Tauriel

Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately our neighbours are not the most sociable of people. We have insurance and the dog licence.

I did let a roar out the window to let them know exactly what I thought of their parental skills. We have decided we will let it go this time but if it happens again I think we will go to the grandfather as he seems most likely to deal with this.

We have no problem with them lifting the child up to see the dog its just hanging him over the garden. I can't help but feel they are just trying to get our dog attacked. I have heard alot of horror stories from other GSD owners were their dogs had to be put down over petty things, so thats just playing on the back of my mind.

seamus

Discodog wrote: »

If your dog bites someone, even on your property, it can be deemed a dangerous dog & be put down.

Actually I was reviewing the legislation on this and in order to be declared a dangerous dog, it has to have done damage and not be kept under "proper control".

Unfortunately there is no definition of "proper control", but my suspicion is that it's there to ensure that the only dogs subject to a destruction order are those who are being allowed to roam free by their owners, not those who have an "incident" and lash out.

In this case, showing that the garden is properly secured and that the child was incapable of getting into the garden without parental assistance would be enough. Of course, it's an academic argument; you could still end up in court fighting for your dog's life.

ppink

I went to safari park in the UK once and spent time with the lion keepers. They told me that when monitoring the cars going through the lions section one day that a couple actually wound down the window of their car and held their baby outside to get the lions attention:eek:

Some people are so stupid.

If this is the way your neighbours are I would look at the fencing and I would have a back up plan also. I would never allow my dogs to be taken or pts without a court order.

TooManyDogs

I reckon I'd be going to the gardai first, I know I wouldnt be able to afford to put up trellis all over my wall

mikemac

ppink wrote: »

I went to safari park in the UK once and spent time with the lion keepers. They told me that when monitoring the cars going through the lions section one day that a couple actually wound down the window of their car and held their baby outside to get the lions attention:eek:

Some people are so stupid.

Reminds me of this in Dublin Zoo in 2006. I shouldn't laugh but

A teenage girl has been savaged by a rare tiger in a zoo after climbing two fences and sticking her arm into its enclosure.

The 19-year-old, who it is believed had been drinking, climbed a solid 6ft timber barrier and then over a smaller 4ft wall before pushing her way through dense vegetation.

She then put her arm through a 20ft high wire mesh fence where two Amur Siberian tigers were resting.

"The tigers obviously reacted the way tigers would, they are wild animals," he said.

Mr Oosterweghel said the tigers would not be destroyed.

"They are beautiful animals and this was a natural reaction for the tigers if someone sticks their hand through the mesh," he said.

After receiving first aid, the woman was taken to hospital by ambulance and underwent emergency surgery on her arm.

"I think she was quite lucky to be able to pull back because normally tigers hold on," said zoo director Leo Oosterweghe

Have you gone to the local garda station OP?
You're not there to file a complaint, just ask advice and get this recorded. Get the garda's card with name and rank

Tauriel

[QUOTE=mikemac;72683462Have you gone to the local garda station OP?
You're not there to file a complaint, just ask advice and get this recorded. Get the garda's card with name and rank[/QUOTE]

No I haven't gone to the gardai. and AFAIK we need their permission to do anything to the wall

lastlaugh

mustang shelly wrote: »

No I haven't gone to the gardai. and AFAIK we need their permission to do anything to the wall

If you secure a 3' trellis to your side of the wall so that it is up ablove the top of the wall by 1 - 2 foot I don't think you would need their permission.

Trellis will not block the sunlight either if that is a concern. It's good to stop 'unwelcome' visitors to your garden aswell.

Galway K9

mustang shelly wrote: »

Thanks for all of the advice. Unfortunately our neighbours are not the most sociable of people. We have insurance and the dog licence.

I did let a roar out the window to let them know exactly what I thought of their parental skills. We have decided we will let it go this time but if it happens again I think we will go to the grandfather as he seems most likely to deal with this.

We have no problem with them lifting the child up to see the dog its just hanging him over the garden. I can't help but feel they are just trying to get our dog attacked. I have heard alot of horror stories from other GSD owners were their dogs had to be put down over petty things, so thats just playing on the back of my mind.

#
You must have the dog disclosed on your home insurance. ring up and put dog under your house insurance cover

Zapperzy

ppink wrote: »

I went to safari park in the UK once and spent time with the lion keepers. They told me that when monitoring the cars going through the lions section one day that a couple actually wound down the window of their car and held their baby outside to get the lions attention:eek:

Some people are so stupid.

If this is the way your neighbours are I would look at the fencing and I would have a back up plan also. I would never allow my dogs to be taken or pts without a court order.

Nothing to add really except both the parents in this story and the parents dangling their baby into a garden with a dog in it are absolute idiots and don't deserve children. No doubt these same people would be crying about dangerous dogs (or lions :eek:) and running to the papers to have their stories published if the children were to get bitten. Poor children having to put up with idiot parents.

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

Actually I was reviewing the legislation on this and in order to be declared a dangerous dog, it has to have done damage and not be kept under "proper control".

But the following implies that if the dog bites anyone then it is deemed to not be under proper control:

(5) Where a dog is proved to have caused damage in an attack on any person, or to have injured livestock, it may be dealt with under this section as a dangerous dog which has not been kept under proper control.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0022.html#sec22

toofiddie

Dog loving children?? Plz plz get this out of your head.. we got a beautiful puppy when our daughter was one year old. We called him patch. Patch is a cross between a collie and a lab.. We adored him and he us. He was so gentle with our daughter, always lying at her feet, while she rubbed his belly etc. He would fetch, loved da garden hose.. My daughter has never been alone with him, as he is kept in da garden and our garden Stretches down to a stream.. Our daughter is four now.. Yesterday we were in da garden sitting on the grass petting patch, my daughter and I together, she was talking to him, when he licked my face, my daughter said good boy, and with that he lept up on her and began attacking her feriously!! I kicked him off and picked up my daughter covered in blood, skin da size of 50cent coin off her cheek, deep to da bone, bottom of her ear lobe bitten off.. I can't describe this in words. 5 hrs in A&E my child will have a scar and earlobe I'm told will not be very noticeable.. My husband and I are in shock still.. Feel such a stupid mother, how did I trust an animal around my child. It was our fault.. Patch never even so much as growled in the 3 yrs we've had him, never ever aggressive.. Played regulary with all the kids in the area.. How, what caused him to attack? We cannot fathom, I witnessed it, will never ever forget, an inch lower he would have ripped her neck!! We took him to the vet today to be put down.. Devastated.. He was such a huge part of our family and will be missed, but he could have killed my daughter. (sorry for the rant) still raw... So plz learn our lesson.. No dog can be trusted around children..

Gremlin

toofiddie, thats absolutely awful, I do hope your daughter makes a full recovery. Really sorry to read that. You'll never know why patch did that. It sounds to me that patch might not have been well. When dogs go off like this for no apparent reason, some underlying issue can often be the cause.

Don't blame yourself, you did nothing wrong. You were responsible enough to be there with your daughter, you could not have know what was about to happen. God forbid, what would have happened if you were not there. Don't even want to think about that. Sadly patch had to be put to sleep. Did the vet suggest any reason?

Ailishcrehan

Just worth mentioning, as you have a sign up saying notifying people that you have a dog...received this information from a solicitor - A beware of dog sign of any variation will act as evidence AGAINST you. As in the eyes of the law it is evidence that you knew your dog was dangerous and never restrained him. Best thing to do if you are worried about this is put a sign on your gate with a pic of a dog with statement under pic that says "I LIVE HERE". As it is not incriminating. Accompany this sign with a no tresspassing private property sign. Also if you can prove your intruder was intending harm ( if is armed ) or theft (if has your belongings on their person etc) you can not be prosecuted. Obviously if your dog has previously bitten anyone in the past this is another story. It's madness but I'm afraid people have been prosecuted for it.

toofiddie

Gremlin wrote: »

toofiddie, thats absolutely awful, I do hope your daughter makes a full recovery. Really sorry to read that. You'll never know why patch did that. It sounds to me that patch might not have been well. When dogs go off like this for no apparent reason, some underlying issue can often be the cause.

Don't blame yourself, you did nothing wrong. You were responsible enough to be there with your daughter, you could not have know what was about to happen. God forbid, what would have happened if you were not there. Don't even want to think about that. Sadly patch had to be put to sleep. Did the vet suggest any reason?

Thanks gremlin, our daughter is in great form thank god, it's only been a day and her wounds are still quiet fresh looking, they could not stich or glue as skin was completely removed. She is a tough little girl and will be fine tg. The vet said, that it is a possible, he was unwell,but are numerous other possible reasons, smell being one, perfume, soap, herbs in food etc. But none of that applies to us.. I suppose we will always wonder. The vet also said, there is no remedy only for the dog to be put down, as after biting the dog would think this is an acceptable action for when he annoyed or bothered.. I am glad I was there as it is unbearable to imagine if I hadn't been there.. Still shocked I looked out this morning to see him as usual. Feel like we are in mourning... But our child and the safety of others comes first.. Like the first post here re the Parents putting there child over the fence. I fear if they are acting so unresponible they will not listen to warnings.. Dangling the child over the fence I fear is also teasing the dog who probably thinks it's a game.. I would def mention it to the gardai. For regardless of who's wrong or right property etc. There is always a risk with a dog and these ppl who have the child are obviously ignorant of this.. They couldn't possibly know the temperament of the dog as they do not sound like friendly neighbours! It is a hard situation for the dog owners as they are doing nothing wrong, but the parents of the child are creating it. I would informally mention it to the gardai and seek advice. It is better to be in the know rather looking back in hindsight.. A phone call could sort it.

Tauriel

Toofiddie I am so sorry for what has happened to you and your child. Please know my best wishes are with ye in this difficult time. Don't blame yourself you sound like a very responsible mother, I'm sure many would leave their child unattended with dogs.

Ailiscrehan thanks for the heads up on the beware of dog sign. We always persumed we were protecting ourselves from liability if something were to happen with that sign. So you can imagine my suprise when I read your post!